BillCord - Chaos Incarnate (Bill vs Discord)

[ShionAH]

Bill is Low 1-C so he won't one shot. Speed Equalized so Bill won't Blitz. SBA.

Bill: 9 (@ThanatosX, @ShionAH, @StrymULTRA, @ZeedKZ, @Psychomaster35, @Aolphl, @TheOrangeGuy09, @Tyranno223, @Cropfist)
Discord: 2 (@Tots_Real, @PonePoster)
Inconclusive:

 

[StrymULTRA]

Bill is Low 1-C so he won't one shot. Speed Equalized so Bill won't Blitz.

What a way to begin the thread.

Anyway the lack of scans in a lot of Discord's powers harms me.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Bill is Low 1-C so he won't one shot. Speed Equalized so Bill won't Blitz.

Peak start of the thread

 

[Spinoirr]

What a way to begin the thread.

Anyway the lack of scans in a lot of Discord's powers harms me.

Yeah someone really needs to update the MLP profiles with scans, references and overall look better and probably new powers too that are missing

 

[StrymULTRA]

Anyway is Discord's Concept Manip combat applicable here? It does not seem so from the profile.

 

[ShionAH]

Anyway is Discord's Concept Manip combat applicable here?

Its only accepted to work on his own concept iirc. it also lacks a type...?

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Anyway is Discord's Concept Manip combat applicable here? It does not seem so from the profile.

He doesn’t even start with that. I’m no expert but I watched some episodes and he clearly doesn’t do that in-character in fight.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Its only accepted to work on his own concept iirc. it also lacks a type...?

Only old af profiles don't have a type lol.

 

[PonePoster]

What a way to begin the thread.

Anyway the lack of scans in a lot of Discord's powers harms me.

I could at some point add scans and better justifications for all of them. There's like 15 or so abilities/powers he doesn't even have that he should too lmao

Anyway is Discord's Concept Manip combat applicable here? It does not seem so from the profile.

It should be. He can conceptually manipulate himself to be an entirely opposite, y'know, concept. When he was Accord, he even redirected the power of the Elements of Harmony, which he stated return "order" to everything it touches. He should have no problem affecting others in the same way

 

[ShionAH]

He can conceptually manipulate himself to be an entirely opposite, y'know, concept. He should have no problem affecting others in the same way

Shapeshifting doesn't mean you can transmutate.

 

[PonePoster]

Shapeshifting doesn't mean you can transmutate.

It wasn't shapeshifting either.

To give context, in the show he nearly vanished from existence when acting against his concept of chaos. As Accord he actively manipulated the Elements of harmony, which were prior stated to be his direct counter. He changed himself on a conceptual level on a whim both ways - and also resisted the original event that converted him to order in the first place, only allowing it to change him

 

[Spicy78]

It wasn't shapeshifting either.

To give context, in the show he nearly vanished from existence when acting against his concept of chaos. As Accord he actively manipulated the Elements of harmony, which were prior stated to be his direct counter. He changed himself on a conceptual level on a whim both ways - and also resisted the original event that converted him to order in the first place, only allowing it to change him

has he shown to change the concept of someone else or can he apply his CM to himself?

 

[ShionAH]

To give context, in the show he nearly vanished from existence when acting against his concept of chaos. As Accord he actively manipulated the Elements of harmony, which were prior stated to be his direct counter. He changed himself on a conceptual level on a whim - and also resisted the original event that converted him to order in the first place, only allowing it to change him

I know the context, how does this mean he can control the concept of others. If I can turn into any animal would you assume I can turn you into any animal? This is definitely Conceptual Manipulation Resistance, no disagreements there.

 

[PonePoster]

And I can say that Discord probably wins here. I'll always hold that in an actual encounter Discord would just try to kill him first. Bill's entire existence leads to a universe being destroyed. No universe = no friends.

Discord also has other hims in his home dimension, which wouldn't be trackable by Bill's precognition as his realm exists in a place that has no logic or causal consistency. Discord should have Acausality type 4, but it's just something that hasn't been pushed before

 

[ShionAH]

Actually wrong, Bill can see his infinite selves and all the Bills exist in the Nightmare Realm which is literally a place that lacks, laws, physics, logic and causality.

Discord doesn't seem to resist Death Manipulation, Mind Shut, Memory Manipulation, Time Stop. Bill could also unironically just eat Discords soul

 

[StrymULTRA]

It should be. He can conceptually manipulate himself to be an entirely opposite, y'know, concept. When he was Accord, he even redirected the power of the Elements of Harmony, which he stated return "order" to everything it touches. He should have no problem affecting others in the same way

I see a lot of "should", a big problem ngl.

 

[PonePoster]

Actually wrong, Bill can see his infinite selves and all the Bills exist in the Nightmare Realm which is literally a place that lacks, laws, physics, logic and causality.

Discord doesn't seem to resist Death Manipulation, Mind Shut, Memory Manipulation. Bill could also unironically just eat Discords soul

He does have mind manipulation resistance? And death manipulation doesn't work on spirits unless shown otherwise.

And if they're both equal here that would also mean there's nothing stopping Discord from absorbing Bill's power to kill him, or erasing him from existence, or directly attacking his mind form with memory erasure either.

In a battle where they're both equal both have ways to instakill here. I just think Discord would go for it first.

 

[StrymULTRA]

He does have mind manipulation resistance? And death manipulation doesn't work on spirits unless shown otherwise.

NEP Mind.

And if they're both equal here that would also mean there's nothing stopping Discord from absorbing Bill's power to kill him, or erasing him from existence, or directly attacking his mind form with memory erasure either.

Type 8 Immortality.

 

[ShionAH]

He does have mind manipulation resistance?

Mind Manipulation is not the same as shutting off Minds. Same way how absoring Soul is not the same as Resisting Soul Manipulation.

And death manipulation doesn't work on spirits unless shown otherwise.

Bill's NPI is Spiritual, Mental, Energy, Abstract (Type 1 - Idea) and Nonexistent (Nature Type 1, Aspect Types 1, 3 and 5 [Energy and Idea] so it should be enough to affect Discords soul.

Discord from absorbing Bill's power to kill him

He doesn't have Power Absorpiton. Only Nullification.

or erasing him from existence

Huh?

or directly attacking his mind form with memory erasure either.

Bill's mind is NEP 3.

 

[PonePoster]

NEP Mind.

Type 8 Immortality.

His physical body can be killed, and his mind form broken to a point he needs to be resurrected by an outside force like the Axolotl. I see know reason he can't just be "incapacitated" that way, the same way he was in the series.

 

[ShionAH]

• Regeneration (Low-Godly. Lacked a Physical Form and easily created one for himself from his Mindscape Form,[2] it is stated that he would have been able to form himself in other ways if he wanted to.[4] Stated to be capable of reforming himself from atoms scattered across reality[5])
• Regeneration (Recovered from a hole that was pierced through his body from Dipper and remade his whole body after being reduced to just his eye and limbs. Recovered after that a spark from the Memory Gun pierced through his body[5])
• Nonexistent Physiology (Nature Type 3, Aspect Types 1, 3 and 5 [Energy and Idea]. Bill is existing in a state of quantum uncertainty, meaning that everything that he is, he is also not.[3] with the Mindscape also really existing while retaining both the soul and mind)

Could you maybe read the profile next time?

 

[PonePoster]

He doesn't have Power Absorpiton. Only Nullification.

Huh?

Bill's mind is NEP 3.

He does, it's listed as Energy absorption, shown here.

Also existence erasure? Unless you're saying Bill's physical body has NEP, which is just kinda dumb lmao. He gave the "quantum uncertainty" line when he was still a mindscape form. To say his physical body is still NEP is a stretch tbh

 

[StrymULTRA]

His physical body can be killed

He can always regenerate it.

his mind form broken to a point he needs to be resurrected by an outside force like the Axolotl. I see know reason he can't just be "incapacitated" that way, the same way he was in the series.

Correction: It works only if Bill is inside one's mind, to the point he himself said that it's his weakness.

Not to mention that on his profile:

• Type 8 (Stated multiple times from Alex Hirsch, Bill himself and Stanford Pines to be an idea, and as such he can't[5][13] be killed[14] due to ideas always existing as long as they are in the Mindscape, because of them being forever remembered from the human minds across generations[15])

And on Ford's profile:

• Quantum Manipulation, Negation of Regeneration (Low-Godly) and Immortality (1, 3, 5, 6 and 8), and Abstract (Type 1)/Nonexistent Erasure (Nature Type 3, Aspect Types 1, 3 and 5 [Energy and Idea]) (Created the Quantum Destabilizer also known as Experiment #618 which would have blasted Bill into nonexistence[2])

Meaning that you need Bill to be inside one's mind to erase him, otherwise he'll just respawn.

Also existence erasure? Unless you're saying Bill's physical body has NEP, which is just kinda dumb lmao

Killing his physical body will do nothing as long as his Mindscape form exists lol.

 

[ShionAH]

He does, it's listed as Energy absorption, shown here.

He literally just absorbed that guy completely. Bill's Energy is NEP though

Also existence erasure?

• Regeneration (Low-Godly. Lacked a Physical Form and easily created one for himself from his Mindscape Form,[2] it is stated that he would have been able to form himself in other ways if he wanted to.[4] Stated to be capable of reforming himself from atoms scattered across reality[5])

Dude? EE doesn't mean shit here lol

 

[Spinoirr]

He literally just absorbed that guy completely. Bill's Energy is NEP though

• Regeneration (Low-Godly. Lacked a Physical Form and easily created one for himself from his Mindscape Form,[2] it is stated that he would have been able to form himself in other ways if he wanted to.[4] Stated to be capable of reforming himself from atoms scattered across reality[5])

Dude? EE doesn't mean shit here lol

To regen from EE means you need at least Mid godly regen

 

[StrymULTRA]

To regen from EE means you need at least Mid godly regen

Wrong! EE at its basic definition is only erasing one's physical body, you need feats for affecting also non-physical components.

Just because Dragon Ball made it popular it does not mean it's the same for all the others.

 

[ShionAH]

To regen from EE means you need at least Mid godly regen

"This ability's destructive power is not absolute, and one should not assume that it can erase the soul by default."

Even if Discord could erase Bill's soul you would need to prove Discord can erase Ideas and Non Existent stuff.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Even if Discord could erase Bill's soul you would need to prove Discord can erase Ideas and Non Existent stuff.

Watch as he'll ignore you and repeat the same stuff.

Anyway, Bill has enough stuff in his arsenal to allow him to eventually overpower Discord, with the latter simply lacking stuff to actually bypass NEP + Type 8 Imm so... yeah.

 

[PonePoster]

Well, either way, Bill gets a power boost from his physical form. Without it he's vastly weaker, and would just be sealed away. There would be a moment where Discord is just stronger, so he would overpower him until his mindscape form is destroyed through NPI, thus needing the Axalotl etc etc.

Unless I'm missing something and he retains the power of his physical body now?

 

[ShionAH]

Unless I'm missing something and he retains the power of his physical body now?

LOW GODLY

 

[StrymULTRA]

Well, either way, Bill gets a power boost from his physical form. Without it he's vastly weaker, and would just be sealed away.

Regen (why do you keep pretending it does not exist).

 

[StrymULTRA]

LOW GODLY

Watch as he'll ignore you and repeat the same stuff.

I have Precognition.

 

[PonePoster]

Regen (why do you keep pretending it does not exist).

He showed during his fight with Shacktron that it isn't instant. He needed some time to regrow his eye. Regenerating his body would take time - even though they're both immeasurable and above it but eh, you know what I mean.

 

[ShionAH]

Regenerating his body would take time

Yeah about 9 seconds, it seems like specifically regrowing his eye takes some time mostly for comedic affect but whatever

 

[StrymULTRA]

He showed during his fight with Shacktron that it isn't instant. He needed some time to regrow his eye.

Precisely, his eye, specifically his weak spot.

Any other place that isn't that was regenerated quite fast. I do not know why are you cherrypicking lmfao.

 

[ZeedKZ]

Following.

 

[PonePoster]

Yeah that's 9 whole seconds Discord would have to seal him away or destroy him with NIP since his mindscape form is a whole two tiers below Discord. Unless you bring up NEP 3 again, and say he wouldn't be able to affect him at all in any case with any hax, in which case

I guess Discord just loses? lol? He could keep erasing any traces of Bill's body as he's constructing them, but affecting his mindscape form I'm not too familiar with NEP's and whether hax can still affect them.

I asked this elsewhere, but is Bill in the Nightmare Realm the same as Bill in the mindscape btw?

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I’ll leave this as a note:

State of mind: In character, but will attempt to win the battle.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I asked this elsewhere, but is Bill in the Nightmare Realm the same as Bill in the mindscape btw?

Pretty much. The Mindscape is only a way Bill uses to physically interact with the universe (he did punch the bottomless pit in existence when a portal was there), and he can use his powers just fine there.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Killing his physical body will do nothing as long as his Mindscape form exists lol.

Exists and doesn’t exist