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Goku vs Zero

Peter1129

Peter1129

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Zero’s profile has finally been updated and I saw that their APs are rather close so here we are

Son Goku (Dragon Ball Super):

Ultraman Zero (Reiwa):

Inconclusive: 7 (Rikimarox2, Mr.Cutlery, Axxtentacle, Tyrano223, ZoroNotZolo, FinePoint, Havok)

Both are Low 2-C

This is Post-2nd Ultra Instinct Sign Goku and Reiwa Era Zero

Goku starts in SSB while Zero starts in Base

SBA

Speed Equalized

I believe this is the AP scaling between them

Reiwa Era Zero: Base (Baseline), Luna-Miracle (>Baseline), Strong-Corona (3x Baseline), Beyond (>3x Baseline), Ultimate (>30x Baseline), Shining (>>30x Baseline), Ultimate Shining (>900x Baseline)

Post-2nd Ultra Instinct Sign Goku: SSB (SSB > First UIS > Infinite Zamasu = Baseline), SSBKK (>2-20x Baseline)
 
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@ZoroNotZolo Well I was thinking of maybe restricting that form. But Zero doesn't start off with that (Heck he rarely even uses Shining let alone Ultimate Shining) and technically if he doesn't take out Goku fast enough Goku might enter Third Ultra Instinct Sign which would probably turn into a battle of who could last the longest in their strongest form with Goku probably having the AP advantage. So I'm not sure if I should restrict it.

@Rikimarox2 The same reason SSBKKx20 Goku is considered SSB (40-50x) x KKx20 (20x) = SSBKKx20 (800-1000x) boost. Ultimate Shining is Ultimate (>30x) x Shining (>>30x) = Ultimate Shining (>900x) boost.
 
Peter1129 said:
The same reason SSBKKx20 Goku is considered a 800-1000x boost. Ultimate Shining is Ultimate (>30x) x Shining (>>30x) = Ultimate Shining (>900x) boost.
Click to expand...
What.

SSBKKx20 is not 800x boost, that's not a thing. Not to mention, we don't accept multipliers that high unless they have extraordinary evidence.

Hell, we only accept SSJ1 to be >40x boost in strength, but we don't accept the others to boost that much.

Also, I need the feats of them affecting Low 2-C structures, because I'm not seeing any on the profile.
 
Rikimarox2 said:
What.

SSBKKx20 is not 800x boost, that's not a thing. Not to mention, we don't accept multipliers that high unless they have extraordinary evidence.

Hell, we only accept SSJ1 to be >40x boost in strength, but we don't accept the others to boost that much.

Also, I need the feats of them affecting Low 2-C structures, because I'm not seeing any on the profile.
Click to expand...
Uhh SSB is accepted as a >40x boost because its Super Saiyan (>40x) on Super Saiyan God. Kaioken multipliers are accepted as Kaioken times whatever number. And SSBKKx20 is literally just the two of them Super Saiyan and Kaioken stacked together. And this multiplier has been used before in the past as both SS1 and KK has been accepted as usable. Also this thread literally list a bunch of accepted multipliers that are way higher.
 
Jesus I didn't know those multipliers are accepted, especially since multipliers are barely ever accepted.

Regardless, what is their Low 2-C feat? Also, if Goku uses Kaioken here, he should be able to blitz. Unless Zero's forms also boost his speed.
 
Some of them are also multiplier stacking within a scaling chain. But just really small ones that eventually add up and become huge once you look at the scaling. Like one of them according to the thread is apparently 2x * 10x * 1.6x * 7x * 10x * 6x * 10x = 134,400x

Post-2nd UIS SSB Goku from what I remember scales above the First Ultra Instinct Sign which is stronger than Infinite Zamasu who is baseline Low 2-C.

Reiwa Era Base Zero is on par with Imit-Belial who was stated in the databooks to possess the same power as the original Belial (Post-Crisis Impact Era version) who after being wounded and weakened due to fighting detonated and barely survived a at least 3-A likely Low 2-C bomb.
 
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Is Ultraman faster than Goku without speed equalized? That kinda determines how the multipliers work out.
 
That's... not very useful. But, if that's our only speed feat, Goku should be faster because his speed basically just comes from the Shockwave feat, which encompasses a universe that's debatably bigger than ours in only a few seconds.

So, Goku CAN actually amp himself to blitz. Ultraman can amp himself, but not to the point he blitzes.
 
Yeah I'm guessing the Dragon Ball characters are way faster speed unequal and even with speed equal they could probably still speed amp and blitz. God dang it. I honestly thought I could make a match between them since their AP in their weaker forms are so similar. But I completely forgot about the Kaioken and Super Saiyan speed amps.
 
Peter1129 said:
Yeah I'm guessing the Dragon Ball characters are way faster speed unequal and even with speed equal they could probably still speed amp and blitz. God dang it. I honestly thought I could make a match between them since their AP in their lower forms are so similar. But I completely forgot about the Kaioken speed amps.
Click to expand...
It's a decent mismatch, sadly. Dragon Ball is just really strong for their tier, so it's hard to make good matches for em.
 
Sadly yeah. So what like I still want to make a match between them. So should we like just turn this into a fun and games thread so the match doesn't get added but we still debate who could win if the speed amps don't matter? Or should this just be closed?
 
A fun and games thread would actually be good for this. Maybe ask for it to be moved in the All-Purpose request thread?
 

Ultraman Feat

:gokuskully:gokuskully Can anyone calc this ? Zero is ******* too fast
www.narutoforums.org www.narutoforums.org

Actually, the feat was calculated, around 414 Quad c. Though seems like there's not much to say anymore. Yeah, I just found it again and only remembered it when it was brought up.
 
Yeah even like 414 Quad is pretty fast but Goku scales way above his own feat (97.8 quad low end) by the Tournament of Power. Like even before the limit breaks his ToP SSG is stronger than his old SSBKKx10 from the Universe 6 Tournament if i remember correctly. After the limit breaks he just gets way faster and stronger.
 
The accepted end is 200~ Quad.

Add the whole SSJ1 and Kaioken, and look what happens.

Also, this match is fair though. I don't think Goku straight up will go Kaioken 20x. So, they both have wincons.

It's either:

A. They fight for a while, and Goku decides to go Kaioken 20x before blitzing.

B. Same as above, but Zero uses his forms. If he uses any of the >30x baseline forms before Goku kaiokens, he could possibly one shot.
 
I mean

200 Quad for Battle of Gods SSG Goku. After that he goes through SSB which is 40x boost in power and speed and then add on KKx10. After Future Trunks Saga SSB Goku = SSBKKx10 from the Universe 6 Tournament Saga. By Tournament of Power even before breaking his limits his SSG is now about the same as his SSB from the end of the Future Trunks Saga. And than he goes through the limit break boost from Ultra Instinct which made SSG stronger than SSB. So

200 Quadrillion Battle of Gods Saga SSG Goku x 40 = 8 Quintillion Resurrection of F Saga SSB Goku x 10 = 80 Quintillion Universe 6 Tournament Saga SSBKKx10 Goku = End of Future Trunks Saga SSB Goku = Tournament of Power Saga SSG Goku x 40 = 3200 Quintillion Tournament of Power SSB Goku = Post-Ultra Instinct Sign SSG Goku x40 = 12.8 Sextillion Post-Ultra Instinct Sign SSB Goku x 20 = 2560 Sextillion Post-Ultra Instinct Sign SSBKKx20 Goku

And then he goes through another limit break boost in the form of the 2nd Ultra Instinct Sign which is bigger than the first but unknown. So Post-2nd Ultra Instinct Sign Goku is way faster than this.

Although I guess since speed is equal maybe this won't matter. So yeah maybe the match is still doable.
 
Point is, he blitzes with merely any form, even without all the limit breaks or the training he went through.

Anyways, this match up is fair I believe. How likely is Zero to use Ultimate and above forms?
 
Yeah seems like it's still fair. Zero would sometimes skip straight to Ultimate if he believes that Luna-Miracle and Strong-Corona are not enough to defeat the enemy. So rather high if Goku starts to overwhelm him easily in SSB. Also just a reminder that Zero is 49 meters tall normally. So the fight isn't a battle between two similarly sized characters.
 
Right, he's an ultraman character.

I wouldn't say he'd overwhelm him that easily. They are rather comparable to AP, with Goku being a bit above him. I guess it really depends on who transforms first.

Granted, if Goku did transform, then Ultraman would never be able to touch him I believe due to the speed gap.
 
Yeah pretty much. Also just a heads up Zero could also use Shining to go into the future. And I think SBA says as long as they don't leave for 24 hours the match still goes on. So there's a chance that if Zero thinks he can't beat Goku right now he could go into the future to rest and form a plan to defeat Goku. Like maybe next time they meet he will go straight to Ultimate or a stronger form to battle Goku since he knows how strong he is now.
 
How often does he do that?

Also, I'm not really sure if he would need to do that when he notices that he is losing in his base form, and has a bunch of other forms to use.
 
Well he used it when he realized they were about to get defeated. And there are quite a few times where Zero used Shining to rewind time to get himself out of trouble when he might die or get stuck somewhere or to take back what he said about promising to train his disciple. So the chances of him using Shining to leave the battle if he's about to lose is rather high.
 
Does he ever use them when he is losing IN base form?

The problem is that you'll assume he's gonna feel like he's gonna get defeated, when he has a bunch of other forms to back him up here.

Goku isn't just gonna yeet Zero like he's a ragdoll or something. They are probably gonna fight for a bit, with Goku having a bit of an advantage. Zero will notice that he's losing here, and uses his other forms to turn the tides.
 
True he won't use it if he's not losing too badly in Base form but if Goku ever uses SSBKKx20 and starts to blitz him while he's in Ultimate there's a chance that he would think oh crap and go into the future or rewind time to go into the past before the battle started. But yeah like I said Shining is more of a last resort thing that he uses when he's in trouble so I'm just throwing that out there right now that it's a thing he might do if he starts losing even with Ultimate.
 
If Goku goes Kaioken, then I don't think Zero would be able to even think due to the 10-20x speed gap.

Anyways, it really depends on who transforms first.

Voting Inconclusive for now, though leaning towards Goku a bit because once Zero uses any of his normal forms, Goku would have to go 20x, and just blitz from there.
 
I thought Goku would actually enjoy fighting Zero if they are so close in power? So if Zero goes Luna-Miracle and Strong-Corona, Goku might just start off with SSBKKx2 rather than SSBKKx20.

But yeah I'm actually also probably gonna lean towards inconclusive for now. Since SSB Goku and Base Zero's difference in power isn't that huge so they won't use their strongest forms right away. Zero would probably start off with Luna-Miracle and Strong-Corona which leads to Goku using SSBKKx2-4 I guess. And after a while they would compliment each other for actually being tough which is when Zero will use Ultimate to fight Goku. And after that maybe after surviving one of Ultimate Zero's attack Goku would realize the difference in power is really big and decide to go x20 which will blitz Zero. But that still wouldn't be able to instantly take him down due to the difference in power (>20x baseline vs >30x baseline). However Zero would now realize that at this rate he will lose which causes him to switch Shining and go into the future to formulate a plan to counter Goku's SSBKKx20 before coming back. And then... Yeah i can't make it up anymore. I guess it all depends on if Zero is willing to sneak attack Goku which based on his personality is something he won't do. I guess if Ultimate Shining isn't restricted Zero might just think this form is the only way to defeat Goku and try to use an AoE attack to beat him.

So yeah I guess I'm also leaning towards inconclusive even though I can't vote.
 
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