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10-A Tournament Round 1, Match 5 (Chimpanzee VS James T. Kirk)

From other hand I guess it's mostly fist to fist, so what's stop Chimp from rushing and biting Kirk to death?
 
I'd been anticipating this. One thing I didn't consider when proposing a choice of Star Trek captains to include was something I didn't look at in Kirk's profile until after he'd already been entered.

Weaknesses: Although he was cured of Vegan choriomeningitis, the organisms of the disease continued to be carried in his blood. Kirk's life span is shortened in hyper-accelerated time, in addition to being susceptible to cellular damage, which could result in him aging to death in mere minutes as a result of the slightest injury. Allergic to Retinax V; as a result, he occasionally used old-fashioned corrective lenses to adjust for his increasing farsightedness.

Bold for emphasis mine.
I have no idea how or why this came to be the case. But on the bright side, minutes is plenty of time in a fight.... But Kirk's age, depending on when he appears, is somewhere between 32 & 60 years old, so how much time he has varies.
I'm not sure if he'd consider it, since I dunno much about this condition of his, nor do I know how likely it is to come up.

Any Star Trek knowledgeable members who could provide info about this?


That aside....
Skilled HtH combatant (elements of Judo and wrestling)

The Chimp has a number of justifications in its attack potency, but none are links to VSBW Calculation blogs, so I'm a bit lazy to go & check to see if any of them actually specify a yield; Knowing how the values for the statistics of these combatants match up may be important.

Kirk almost certainly has the skill advantage, but if he doesn't scale above baseline, the Chimp is probably stronger.
Kirk's weakness's relevance probably needs to be determined.
 
Ok so, how would skill really play into this? It's a chimpanzee, they rush at you and try to grapple you. Even a normal human would know how that'd work. And it's not like any techniques would really work on a chimp too well due to its different body. You can't really judo a monkey.

Anyway, the chimp is around 150 joules.

Now, for the real advantages, the chimpanzee's compact body and muscles means it will be able to endure hits with ease, it's gonna tank punches from a weaker opponent with ease, and its large teeth give it a huge advantage in combat. It's not just gonna pull and tear, it's gonna bite as well.
 
Armorchompy said:
Ok so, how would skill really play into this? It's a chimpanzee, they rush at you and try to grapple you. Even a normal human would know how that'd work. And it's not like any techniques would really work on a chimp too well due to its different body. You can't really judo a monkey.
Click to expand...
A monkey has a very much humanoid body structure, & as you made evident, the human mind can definitely evaluate how a monkey will attack.
A more skilled fighter can better employ this knowledge. Some movements are more or less effective at countering other types of movements than others. That's the whole point of martial arts & such.
I would say you could DEFINITELY "judo" a monkey. It may be small & strong, & it might fight in atypical ways, but that doesn't mean there aren't ways to employs your skills in controlling your body to make your movements more effective against it.
(Not to mention, if it tries to grapple its opponent, that Kirk does often wrestle, apparently, should be relevant.)
 
Martial arts training doesn't immediately make you a savant, it trains you to fight people who fight like humans and are shaped like humans, and a chimpanzee is neither. You know how it's gonna attack but the specifics will evade you the same way they'll evade a normal dude.

This is doubly true for grappling martial arts. Judo is designed to work against people of human size with human proportions, which means it's gonna be completely worthless against the proportions of a chimpanzee. It literally would not work.


Here's a bunch of basic judo throws. Look at how most of them use leg swipes to throw you off balance while flinging you over the shoulder which is literally impossible due to the chimpanzee's size. You'd have to awkwardly crouch down for any attempt at grabbing the chimp, which drastically reduces your mobility and puts you into face-biting range. Not only that but due to the stubby legs the chimpanzee has, leg sweeps would prove ineffective, nevermind that they'd be impossible to execute with ease when crouched.

And yes, I did say chimpanzees "grapple", but it's really just jumping at someone and trying to pull yourself closer while biting. Again, humans don't do that. Now I do know Kirk goes up against a lot of aliens so I'm not saying he's completely inexperienced in the subject of people trying to bite his face off, but from what's on his profile, I don't think any of his experience directly applies to this.
 
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Also, it's worth mentioning chimpanzees have got really good stamina, which combined with Kirk's weakness and his lack of means to quickly put the chimp down seals the deal for me.
 
How the heck is Kirk losing this? I mean, it's explained pretty well, but I still find it kind of ridiculous to have a notable starship captain lose to an ape.

Anyway, Kirk returns to monke FRA, I suppose.
 
Armorchompy said:
Also, it's worth mentioning chimpanzees have got really good stamina, which combined with Kirk's weakness and his lack of means to quickly put the chimp down seals the deal for me.
Click to expand...
Truthfully, I wasn't very confident in James, either. Still, I prefer thorough debate. (Though I do still wonder about the likelihood of his weakness coming up. With an unknown probability & presuming fighters at their strongest, I'd question if it'd come up at all.)

Still, Kirk's judo & wrestling skills arguably aren't built for this, & he's at a statistical disadvantage. Not to mention he's pretty much just a man in a uniform when he's 10-A.

Standard Equipment: Sub-space communicator, laser pistol, hand phaser (either Type 1 or Type 2), phaser rifle, grenade launcher, tricorder, rigged Constellation, lirpa, ahn-woon, Romulan disruptor, makeshift cannon, Colt 1921AC Thompson, M1911, MP40, Belgian Dueling pistol, Single Action Army, Walther P38, Flintlock Pistols, American Derringer Model 1, sword, whip, axe

Are any of those weapons that are 10-A, or non-weaponry he could make use of? (Also, I'd bet most of it is closer to optional than Standard.)

It's a great indignity to inflict on a Starfleet Captain.... But it seems James T. Kirk loses to a chimp this time. The Chimpanzee has my vote.
Will this match be added to their profiles, I wonder? Lol.

(Also, that said, I still do question the notion that a chimp, an often upright biped with 2 arms, a fellow primate, & of a species notedly similar to a human, would not be considered like a human in shape. In size, perhaps, but I think it's less different in anatomical structure. Also, "You know how it's gonna attack but the specifics will evade you the same way they'll evade a normal dude." sounds like something less applicable with high enough level of skill.
Also, "And yes, I did say chimpanzees "grapple", but it's really just jumping at someone and trying to pull yourself closer while biting. Again, humans don't do that."
Humans don't suddenly lunge towards someone & try to grab their arm? That isn't an assault someone might train for in martial arts?
Still, mind that what I'm saying here in the brackets in this post doesn't mean I'm not voting for the Chimpanzee.)
 
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I think the weaponry's supposed to be restricted, obviously if he has guns that's an easy GG for him but I'd wager those are all 9-C except for maybe the flintlock pistols... but no way those aren't Optional Equipment. This profile's probably in need of a renewal and I bet he has some ability that'd allow him to beat the chimpanzee, but unfortunately I don't have any knowledge on Star Trek, and as it is, Kirk loses
 
Armorchompy said:
I think the weaponry's supposed to be restricted, obviously if he has guns that's an easy GG for him but I'd wager those are all 9-C except for maybe the flintlock pistols... but no way those aren't Optional Equipment. This profile's probably in need of a renewal and I bet he has some ability that'd allow him to beat the chimpanzee, but unfortunately I don't have any knowledge on Star Trek, and as it is, Kirk loses
Click to expand...
Flintock Pistols are 9-C
 
Armorchompy said:
This profile's probably in need of a renewal and I bet he has some ability that'd allow him to beat the chimpanzee, but unfortunately I don't have any knowledge on Star Trek, and as it is, Kirk loses
Click to expand...
I agree it's in need of a renewing.
Although, funnily enough, Kirk MIGHT have the abilities needed.

"Psychokenesis, Mind Control, Technology Manipulation and Empathic Manipulation (after injecting kironide)"

In theory, having telekinesis, & maybe Mind Control &/or Empathic Manipulation MIGHT be useful.

Unfortunately, his profile doesn't explain what Kironide is, how he uses it beyond injecting it, how long it takes to take effect, if there are any possible side effects, how likely he is to use it, etc. In fact, if you search his page for "kironide", that's the only time it comes up!

Superhuman Speed and Perception (after drinking Scalosian water)

Same problems as Kironide. Yes, it's Speed in a Speed Equalized match, but don't stat amps in Speed Equal still apply if the amps are applied after the match begins, during its... erm... duration?

I'd like to improve his profile, too, but it's been years.
Still, it needs the touch of a knowledgeable member; At least one problem is that it has a lot of undefined terminology that needs clarification, & similarly, his feats are "unclarified" in that he's got a bunch of them, but with no calc, he defaults to baseline!
....Unless there's a generic calc applicable to some of his feats, but I found no link to a Reference for Common Feats page on his profile, suggesting it may be based on very old info, indeed.

I suppose one option might be that the OP could specify he's under the effects of kironide &/or Scalosian water, if they feel it's too unfair....
But that still leaves a whole bunch of things we don't know, about them, so, IMHO, it feels a bit disingenous to use them when we don't know them completely.

Makes me tempted to go look at the Star Trek Wikis (There's at least 2. Memory Alpha & Memory Beta.) to go look-up some of this stuff, but I'm too tired & lazy AtM.
 
With the votes of Armorchompy, DaReaperMan, Popted2, Oleggator, Starter_Pack, myself, & I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die, that appears to be 7 votes to 0 in the Chimp's favor, if I'm not mistaken.
Thus so, Grace begins.
Next match?
 
Oh, theres a losers bracket. Will we be doing that?

If we are, then I would predict that 008 would go up to Losers Round 3
 
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Chimp one shots FRA....
9ebd471a71ed6b8d534f0d0c3ad56e2e.gif
 
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