1-A Void upgrade for Shadow Fight (Need Ultima's input)

[Richard5128pm]

Hello, this thread focuses on the Primordial Void of Shadow fight, the starting point of creation. I'll try to provide as much context as possible.

Aspatial and Atemporal part
In Shadow Fight 2, Tenebris (the void's avatar) describes the void as the emptiness in which worlds are born. Establishing the fact that it lacks any dimensional feature/physicality.

The portal -
Its basically just a hole is reality, through which the void is peeking through. As Tenebris explained, it’s just complete emptiness beyond the portal, the darkness in which worlds can be created. It is also where Tenebris vs Shadow takes place.
The portal exists at the end of the underworld (edge of reality), when shadow and sensei get somewhat close to the portal, sensei warns shadow of universal laws ceasing to exist (not just in the void, but also near the void), this would mean the void houses it's own abstract laws, just like how a conceptual domain should.

From the void's perspective, time isn't really a thing, as the past, present and future happen simultaneously from its view (the void room is but a small part of the void)
Stranger, the probability of existence from void room, is beyond time; this can be used to prove the void's atemporal nature. The verse uses block universe model, so, for anyone who exists in the void (which is beyond time), the universe is like an open book, they can see everything at once.

Superiority over dimensioned things
Starting with the basics;

The void is described as a place where anything is possible. It has been called "Nothing" in many translations (the game devs are Russian)

The void is much “vaster” than the universe (space-time), a requirement for beyond-dimensional existence (type 2). Mnemos calls it vast.

The void children (a.k.a the ancients) can leave their universes and step into the void/emptiness beyond it, only they can survive its existence erasure, if any regular character were to enter it, they would instantly get erased. The void children can go anywhere in the multiverse as worlds and times are open to them, they can go to the past and future + anywhere in the 2-A multiverse. But even these characters find it impossible to travel from one side to the other in the void without the Infinity beacon, just because of how vast the void is. The 2-A multiverse itself would be a small object encompassed in such a backdrop.

Beings from lower reality cannot traverse through a 1-A realm without a 1-A travel system (Infinity beacon), there are no anti-feats as someone from the lower reality didn't create the Infinity beacon.

The multiverse / Universes die and be reborn over and over in a spiral, but the void is eternal, detached from the multiverse and everything in it, it doesn't depend on anything from the lower reality.

The energy of the void can erase matter and turn them into nothingness, just like how the void's Infinity is said to devour anything that enters it.

The developers have mentioned the void to be incomprehensible and work according to it's own rules; this establishes a very strong superiority for the void over physical reality. It also goes in hand with what I said about the void housing it's own abstract laws. Here's the English version of the article.

The portal was also once mentioned as something that cannot be comprehended by mortals, in a story description.

This crt is majorly inspired by Ultima's explanations below -

even characters and realms with Type 1 Beyond-Dimensional Existence are "beyond" the bounds of dimension (In the sense they're inherently outside of dimensional space). More evidence would be needed to demonstrate superiority, overall, like being described/shown as dwarfing dimensioned things, for example.

Something that demonstrates the "superiority" in question isn't just a matter of raw power, but something tied to the character's very existence, instead. The difference between Type 1 and Type 2 is that a character with Type 1 BDE has their nature be simply incomparable to spacetime structures, due to lacking size. It's neither above or below them, just different in nature.

A character with Type 2 BDE, however, has this non-dimensional nature indeed be something comparable to dimensional structures, more specifically by being "larger" than them. So it doesn't simply lack size but indeed is above size. So, for instance, if you have a void of nonexistence described as having no dimensions, or as "beyond spatial dimensions," and then it's portrayed as something far more vast than dimensional structures (By encompassing and surrounding them as a container, for example), that's Type 2.

The void is non-dimensional (The emptiness in which worlds are born), but it is also "vaster" than physical reality, as we see Ishtar mention it. Therefore, it doesn't just lack size but is above size

Quoting Beyond-Dimensional Existence page -

As a default, statements of being "above dimensions" are set at Low 1-A, and the same is applied to statements indicating superiority over "All of space and time," and similar. However, if they are applied to realms that can be inferred to surpass the very composition of the lower reality (e.g. Realms that are, themselves, non-composite, such as conceptual domains, or often, voids of nothingness), then 1-A is the most appropriate rating for them.

Furthermore, keep in mind that Type 2 Beyond-Dimensional Existence (In particular the latter variant) is not simply a combination of a non-dimensional state of existence and greater raw power than all dimensional structures in a cosmology – Though that is a necessary condition to qualify for it, it is not a sufficient one. Instead, the non-dimensional state of existence must be the direct cause of the character/realm's superiority over dimensions. A simple example being voids of nothingness that lack space, time and physicality entirely, but are nonetheless "vaster" than physical reality in some way, with common imagery being the universe as a small object encompassed in such a backdrop.

The void is non-composite (emptiness in which worlds are born) + It is much vaster / superior to physical reality + Is the highest point in the verse (Incomprehensible / Unimaginable to physical reality) - Just BDE2 stuff

Quoting Tiering System FAQ (What is qualitative superiority) -

This inaccessibility possessed by qualitatively superior characters and realms can also be expressed in terms of sheer ontology, generally speaking. That is to say: They are fundamentally different from the nature of the lower reality, and this different nature is precisely the source of their superiority over it. Since their "otherness" is identical to their transcendence, no expansion or extension of the lower reality and anything in it can possibly attain to them, as long as it maintains its particular nature. Put it simply: They are as powerful as they are alien.

The FAQ page mentions, "their 'otherness' is identical to their transcendence", which would perfectly describe the void, given its superiority.

Considering everything, the bottom line is that the Void is ontologically superior to the verse, it is the largest entity in the verse with no limit/boundaries, where everything is possible, using the in-game evidence for support, the Void would fit in for a 1-A rating.

Thing is, the void storyline isn't out yet, this is what we know about the void so far. At the very least, we can go for a possibly 1-A rating if the current scans aren't enough, the game is yet to give us more info on the void.

So, how would this affect the verse?
These four characters get scaled to the void

1) Architect (the writer) - As per this thread, Architect's 2-B, likely 2-A scaling is based on the void. With this 1-A void upgrade, Architect's 2-B /2-A tiers should be replaced with 1-A

Conclusion - At least Low 2-C, possibly Higher physically. 1-A with Plot Manipulation and Data Manipulation

2) Shadow (the protagonist) & Sensei - Following Tenebris' defeat, the player is presented with two options, whether to turn back (as Tenebris advised) or enter the portal. When shadow decides to turn back, the portal (the void) blesses them with its own power, the power to mold and shape reality, to create anew. The void becomes their direct source of power. This will be given a separate key of its own since turn back option is regarded as non-canon for the main storyline.

Conclusion - Low 2-C | Low 2-C, 1-A with the Portal's power

3) Tenebris (Void's avatar) - Has the portal's power, similar to shadow.

Conclusion - At least Low 2-C, possibly Higher. 1-A with the Portal's power


Tallies
AGREE (12) - @Astral_Trinity439, @Richard5128pm, @Dashio_Tessai, @Ar1216789, @Secimatar, @ByArrow, @VoidWalker777, @Bernkastelll, @DivineCreator389, @Jeeeeepil123, @Blackdragonq1, @Digital_Franz

NEUTRAL (3) - @Yokoahh5743 (Inclined to agreeing), @Sebas-S.P-san, @Hixkaryana (Inclined to disagreeing)

DISAGREE (9) - @Robo432343, @Karabach-barabach, @SweetDao, @Udlmaster, @Baabasaplar95, @GarrixianXD, @Catzlaflame, @VeryGoofyToddler2, @The_2nd_Existential_Seed

This OP has been updated numerous times after the above members disagreed. I’d advise them to have a re-read.

 

[Robo432343]

i feel like this is way too vague for a 1-A rating

 

[Secimatar]

i feel like this is way too vague for a 1-A rating

We have other statements too proving its a void of nothingness

 

[Richard5128pm]

i feel like this is way too vague for a 1-A rating

It is a void of nothingness, also the most powerful entity in the verse (except the writer) with just it's vastness

 

[Robo432343]

all we're getting is that the void is just a big space that gave birth to worlds


and the things you said don't match with what the scans say
you said, "The void is much “vaster” than space time" but the scans don't even say that

 

[Richard5128pm]

you said, "The void is much “vaster” than space time" but the scans don't even say that

Ishtar was talking about her universe being a small part of the vast world of the void

 

[Grabbing_dragon]

i feel like this is way too vague for a 1-A rating

bruh speaking fax

Ishtar was talking about her universe being a small part of the vast world of the void

The problem is that it is not said to be aspatial and atemporal; it is something you just assumed.

 

[Secimatar]

all we're getting is that the void is just a big space that gave birth to worlds


and the things you said don't match with what the scans say
you said, "The void is much “vaster” than space time" but the scans don't even say that

We have already proven in the past that the worlds are space-time continuums and that is already accepted on this wiki so we don't need to do that again.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

The void is a perfect fit for 1-A rating. There are many more scans for the void, regarding the void containing ancient stars, star rivers and the ability to erase a person's body and soul.

Pretty much, and I fully agree to this; it goes along with the definition almost word to word for being "Vaster than Physical Reality, yet lacking Space-time and Physicality". A "Void of Emptiness/Nothingness" is assumed to do that by default, as per the standards of our Void Manipulation in accordance to the definition page.
Something doesn't need overly fancy terms being mentioned[like "This reality is of an entirely different composite" or "Its a conceptual domain utterly inaccessible, transcend of the physical world and sees it as illusory"], NO, to get 1-A, you can very much get the tier while keeping the wording to the utmost basic as long as the wording itself fits the purpose of the BDE2 page.

As a default, statements of being "above dimensions" are set at Low 1-A, and the same is applied to statements indicating superiority over "All of space and time," and similar. However, if they are applied to realms that can be inferred to surpass the very composition of the lower reality (e.g. Realms that are, themselves, non-composite, such as conceptual domains, or often, voids of nothingness), then 1-A is the most appropriate rating for them.

Furthermore, keep in mind that Type 2 Beyond-Dimensional Existence (In particular the latter variant) is not simply a combination of a non-dimensional state of existence and greater raw power than all dimensional structures in a cosmology – Though that is a necessary condition to qualify for it, it is not a sufficient one. Instead, the non-dimensional state of existence must be the direct cause of the character/realm's superiority over dimensions. A simple example being voids of nothingness that lack space, time and physicality entirely, but are nonetheless "vaster" than physical reality in some way, with common imagery being the universe as a small object encompassed in such a backdrop.

1) Architect (the writer) - As per this thread, architect's 2-B, likely 2-A scaling is based off the void. With this 1-A void upgrade, Architect's 2-B /2-A tiers should be replaced with 1-A

Is the Architecter's tier on "can erase the shadow verse" referring to the physical worlds or the game as a whole? That really needs to be clarified.
If the void is counted in the "shadow fight as an entire game and data", then yeah, I agree with 1-A for the guy.

2) Shadow (the protagonist) - Following tenebris' defeat, the player is presented with two options, wheather to turn back (as tenebris advised) or enter the portal. When shadow decides to turn back, the portal (the void) blesses him with its own power, the power to mold and shape reality, to create anew. The void becomes his direct source of power. This will be given a separate key of its own since turn back option is regarded as non canon for the main story line.

Conclusion - Low 2-C | Low 2-C, 1-A with the Portal's power

3) Tenebris (Void's avatar) - Has the portal's power, similar to shadow.

Conclusion - At least Low 2-C, possibly Higher. 1-A with the Portal's power

This much is pretty clear since they're getting blessed by a 1-A power source, so no anti-feat present.

 

[Secimatar]

Is the Architecter's tier on "can erase the shadow verse" referring to the physical worlds or the game as a whole? That really needs to be clarified.
If the void is counted in the "shadow fight as an entire game and data", then yeah, I agree with 1-A for the guy.

Thank you for response. Also the architect stated that he can delete the entire game and not just the physical worlds.

 

[Robo432343]

it goes along with the definition almost word to word for being "Vaster than Physical Reality, yet lacking Space-time and Physicality"

brotha where is the scan that says this

 

[Secimatar]

brotha where is the scan that says this

It has Literally been called "nothingness" many times. I can provide you more scans if you want regarding this. On top of that there are total of 0 statements in all of the games that even REMOTELY suggest that void is made of space or time. If you assume otherwise then you would have to provide evidence for why it is not a void of nothingness as according to definition provided on void manipulation page, it is enough for a void to be considered nothingness/non existent if it is called that (and doesn't have anti statements ofc).

 

[SweetDao]

I have to agree with Robo. Right now it looks more like a void in between universes/outside universes than a literal Low 1-A/1-A void.

I personally think it would perhaps be more fitting for Low 1-C at most.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

brotha where is the scan that says this

From term to term:
"Vaster than Physical Reality, yet lacking Space-time and Physicality"

Vaster than Physical Reality:

"yet lacking Space-time and Physicality":

It's a "Void of Emptiness"
From the Void Manipulation definition page:

Void Manipulation, also known as Nothingness Manipulation is the ability to control and manipulate a void: nothingness or non-existence.

Empty space and black holes are not examples of a void as they possess energy and exist in the conventional sense. Manipulating either is Spatial Manipulation and Black Hole Creation respectively.

Just "Empty Space" is not a Void -> meaning a Void lacks even Spatiality.
From the NEP definition page[Void is Nonexistence by default]:

The physical body of every character with this ability has to be nonexistent. That means that users always are Incorporeal, unless maybe they physically qualify for Paradoxical Nonexistence. That means that robots or similar don't qualify for spiritual or mental nonexistence, as they physically exist. Incorporeality alone, however, is not enough. The character has to additionally have at least one combination of the following types:

The terms used in the scans have definitions in our wiki to dictate what they qualify for; Thus, as said, you don't need overly fancy terms to qualify for it.

 

[Dashio_Tessai]

I mean sure, I am willing to agree that the place beyond this portal is an endless span of emptiness. I'm not even sure what NEP is up to these days, but I can say that this void lacks a good chunk of properties found in Shadow's world (where Earth exists), if not "everything". For some context, the Eternals are described by Son of Heaven as being literal forces of nature. Each of them embody a specific concept and are able to manipulate the elements that are related to said concept, and are also capable of resurrecting because of this (I should mention that canonically they are also called "Immortals"). Volcano is fire, Megalith is earth (not just minerals as some would say because his role in the past was to move the Earth's continents), Fungus is organic life (with huge emphasis on fungi), Vortex is water, Fatum (and presumably her sister Whisper) is fate (with fate in this verse being at least synonymous with time, since when Morgana's spiders tangled the web of time, it caused Fatum to no longer see any fate lines and instead see only chaos), Arkhos (with analysis of his character, dialogue and design) is faith, Hoaxen is lies, Karcer is hunger and Drakaina is war. Now Tenebris being their "Father" puts into perspective the fact that he is a lot older than all of those Eternals. He existed long before those forces of nature did. In fact, Tenebris is stated by Fatum herself that he is even more skilled than her at manipulating the threads of fate. Fatum may be fate itself, but it was Tenebris who created and designed "fate" to begin with. There is but one thing that Tenebris never created though, and that is the emptiness that exists beyond the portal. In fact this emptiness granting Shadow the power to "mold and shape reality like fresh clay, to create anew" leads me to believe that Tenebris is also dependant on this emptiness' same power in order to create things (such as the Eternals). Tenebris himself being the confirmed embodiment of fear (and categorized as an Eternal) also, at least to me, implies that he himself was created by another, even older being. And who else could that be if not the seemingly sentient emptiness beyond the portal, from which the power to create derives? Basically what I mean to say is that this emptiness lacks anything that exists in Shadow's world (at the very least the things that the Eternals embody - fire, earth, organic life, water, fate / time, faith, lies, hunger, war, fear). It is the "final frontier", the "edge of reality". All those concepts of reality I just mentioned end at the border with this emptiness. It is an emptiness whose infinity devours anything which exists that comes in contact with it. Shadow survived going through it, but it still took his strength away and weakened his molecular bonds.

It still irks me the wrong way that this void I have just described is now supposed to be the same as the one in Shadow Fight 3. Because when they introduced the Void in Shadow Fight 3, both Underworld's story and Shadow Fight 3's were not canon to each other. The differences between Underworld's void and SF3's Void are drastic. The Void in SF3 is not so empty as its name implies: it hosts a native population of aliens, it has a political system and rulers, it contains various elemental energies, it contains stars and possibly planets. That's quite different from the void that Tenebris describes.

Not even sure if this even contributes to any side of the argument, but I reckoned that I should give my thoughts on the matter. If anything I'll just stick around and give context to scans and whatnot based on what I personally remember.

 

[Secimatar]

It still irks me the wrong way that this void I have just described is now supposed to be the same as the one in Shadow Fight 3. Because when they introduced the Void in Shadow Fight 3, both Underworld's story and Shadow Fight 3's were not canon to each other. The differences between Underworld's void and SF3's Void are drastic. The Void in SF3 is not so empty as its name implies: it hosts a native population of aliens, it has a political system and rulers, it contains various elemental energies, it contains stars and possibly planets. That's quite different from the void that Tenebris describes.

I think they are the same void, just in UW it was the first time they ever introduced it and in sf3 they added more details onwards. Also considering the fact that uw is canon now, they are canonically considered the same.

 

[Richard5128pm]

Is the Architecter's tier on "can erase the shadow verse" referring to the physical worlds or the game as a whole? That really needs to be clarified.
If the void is counted in the "shadow fight as an entire game and data", then yeah, I agree with 1-A for the guy.

Architect was talking about deleting the entire game (the void, the multiverse and all game characters) +Thank you for the input, I'll count your vote.

It still irks me the wrong way that this void I have just described is now supposed to be the same as the one in Shadow Fight 3. Because when they introduced the Void in Shadow Fight 3, both Underworld's story and Shadow Fight 3's were not canon to each other. The differences between Underworld's void and SF3's Void are drastic. The Void in SF3 is not so empty as its name implies: it hosts a native population of aliens, it has a political system and rulers, it contains various elemental energies, it contains stars and possibly planets. That's quite different from the void that Tenebris describes.

Well, due to the forced canonification, they both are implied to be the same. They've also changed the fact that the shadow world originally belonged to the ancients. I've also got a statement from ishtar where she says travelling from one point to another is impossible even though she has dimensional travel, just because of the void's size, she needs the infinity beacon to travel through it.

 

[Secimatar]

I have to agree with Robo. Right now it looks more like a void in between universes/outside universes than a literal Low 1-A/1-A void.

I personally think it would perhaps be more fitting for Low 1-C at most.

It has Literally been stated to be nothingness, many times. On top of that for Low 1-C u have to show that there is space or time in the void and there are 0 statements that suggest that. On top of that the void has been called nothingness, emptiness, darkness, etc many times. It also destroys anyone who manages steps inside the void, which something u don't see a higher dimensional space doing.

 

[Ar1216789]

I agree. It qualifies for being a void of nothingness among other things. The fact it's "vaster" than physical reality supports claims for 1-A.

 

[Richard5128pm]

I agree. It qualifies for being a void of nothingness among other things. The fact it's "vaster" than physical reality supports claims for 1-A.

Thanks for the input

 

[Yokoahh5743]

I'm not as expert on 1-A as I should be, but if the void were vaster than physical reality, it would seem like it would have a rating 1-A. I'm neutral and inclined to agree

 

[Secimatar]

I'm not as expert on 1-A as I should be, but if the void were vaster than physical reality, it would seem like it would have a rating 1-A. I'm neutral and inclined to agree

Thanks for your input.

 

[Richard5128pm]

I'm not as expert on 1-A as I should be, but if the void were vaster than physical reality, it would seem like it would have a rating 1-A. I'm neutral and inclined to agree

Noted

 

[Wikisource]

Same as Robo and Sweetdao, I don't think 1-A could work here. Most of things here are unclearly to get 1-A. One of the most difference between a physical realm and a void realm is a physical realm have a kind of energy and a void realm doesn't have because it's a void.

 

[Secimatar]

Same as Robo and Sweetdao, I don't think 1-A could work here. Most of things here are unclearly to get 1-A. One of the most difference between a physical realm and a void realm is a physical realm have a kind of energy and a void realm doesn't have because it's a void.

That is not the difference between a physical realm and a void of nothingness. The difference is that 1 is nothingness, while the other isn't. The void in shadow fight has been called nothingness many times in the games and other media. And there is nothing that suggests that it is a higher dimensional space.

 

[Wikisource]

That is not the difference between a physical realm and a void of nothingness.

Energy plays an important and fundamental role in the universe. It is not only the source of all activity but also the basis of all objects. For example, our universe can expand without collapsing because of dark energy. Energy from the electromagnetic force keeps electrons orbiting the nucleus, helping to form atoms and molecules. Energy from stars, especially from the sun, provides the light and heat necessary for life on Earth... The void does not need energy because it does not belong to the categories of physics.

The difference is that 1 is nothingness, while the other isn't.

In nature, ofc.

The void in shadow fight has been called nothingness many times in the games and other media.

I'm not saying it's not nothingness, I'm saying it takes away the nature of void/nothingness making it cannot get 1-A.

And there is nothing that suggests that it is a higher dimensional space.

This not my point, I didn't say anything about higher dimension. Well, a void could be higher dimension without something like that. You know, a 5-D in-significant size or something, what ever...

 

[Richard5128pm]

Same as Robo and Sweetdao, I don't think 1-A could work here. Most of things here are unclearly to get 1-A. One of the most difference between a physical realm and a void realm is a physical realm have a kind of energy and a void realm doesn't have because it's a void.

I understand what you mean. In addition to being a void of nothingness, this is also the starting point of creation, ofcourse it will have a energy of it's own. And we're not talking about any regular type of energy

when void energy comes in contact with matter, it can erase the matter and turns it into nothingness, similar to how the void devours any matter coming in contact with it. Also, containing energy of this sort shouldn't be stopping it from getting a Low 1-A / 1-A rating, as it doesn't break any rule, the void still lacks space, time and physicality in it's nature. And it is so vast that even ishtar (a character who can travel between dimensions) says it is impossible to get from one side of the void to the other without the help of infinity beacon.

 

[Wikisource]

I understand what you mean. In addition to being a void of nothingness, this is also the starting point of creation, ofcourse it will have a energy of it's own. And we're not talking about any regular type of energy

when void energy comes in contact with matter, it can erase the matter and turns it into nothingness, similar to how the void devours any matter coming in contact with it. Also, containing energy of this sort shouldn't be stopping it from getting a Low 1-A / 1-A rating, as it doesn't break any rule, the void still lacks space, time and physicality in it's nature. And it is so vast that even ishtar (a character who can travel between dimensions) says it is impossible to get from one side of the void to the other without the help of infinity beacon.

You would need evidence that it is different than regular energy. And energy is the clearest expression of physical properties. Erase matter not really prove it different with regular energy, it just kind of effect it could does. Also, is it possible that they can enter the void themselves, they just can't move through it because it's too big, right?

 

[Secimatar]

You would need evidence that it is different than regular energy. And energy is the clearest expression of physical properties. Erase matter not really prove it different with regular energy, it just kind of effect it could does. Also, is it possible that they can enter the void themselves, they just can't move through it because it's too big, right?

Let me just give you a brief explanation here. There are atleast 12 energies in sf verse. There could possibly be more as mnemenos said that telling its actual number is forbidden but there are atleast 12. On combining all of the energies you get shadow energy. You can also say that all the energies came into being from shadow energy. Now, the void created this energy just like how it created all the reality, it doesn't mean the energy is rooted into the void just like how the reality is not rooted in the void. This energy can be used to create or it can be used to destroy Unlike your examples, like the universe needing dark energy for its expansion and stuff, the void doesn't need energy, It is completely independent and self sufficient. The void existed before anything existed and is the starting point of all creation. It will exist even after everything would die(including the enrgies), as nothing in the void is eternal, but the void is eternal. The energies created by the void aren't an aspect of the void itself but rather an aspect of the reality created by it, just like the void has created space and time that doesn't mean the void also has space and time. The void can create whatever it wants, whether that be energy, matter, space, etc.
Now coming to ur second point, No not everyone can enter the void. And they certainly can't move through because its "too big", they can't move through because it literally erases a person physically and spiritually of one enters the void.

 

[Richard5128pm]

You would need evidence that it is different than regular energy. And energy is the clearest expression of physical properties. Erase matter not really prove it different with regular energy, it just kind of effect it could does. Also, is it possible that they can enter the void themselves, they just can't move through it because it's too big, right?

Void energy is different from regular energy because even shadow energy (which is also an energy originated from the void) defies the laws of physics with what it can do, as it was given in the guidebook.
And yes, these characters can leave their universes and step into the void / emptiness beyond it, and by "these characters" I mean only the void children (a.k.a the ancients) and beings equipped with void technology, only they can survive it's existence erasure, if any regular character were to enter it, they would instantly get erased. The void children can go anywhere in the multiverse as worlds and times are open to them, they can go to the past and future + anywhere in the 2-A multiverse. But even these characters find it impossible to travel from one side to the other in the void without the infinity beacon, just because of how large the void is.

 

[Wikisource]

As I said, energy is fundamentally a physical property. So therefore, one should show it as a kind of metaphysical aspect rather than a physical energy. Physical energy also has creation/destruction like the way our universe is created. So in general, these things do not make much sense.

What I want to mention is that for them to move or rather advance from Non 1-A into 1-A, they will need intervention from proper 1-A beings. If they enter on their own, this will downgrade it to Non 1-A.

 

[Sebas-S.P-san]

Astral's arguments seem to be fine, but I'll still stay neutral for the moment, I see it as a bit vague

 

[Secimatar]

As I said, energy is fundamentally a physical property. So therefore, one should show it as a kind of metaphysical aspect rather than a physical energy. Physical energy also has creation/destruction like the way our universe is created. So in general, these things do not make much sense.

What I want to mention is that for them to move or rather advance from Non 1-A into 1-A, they will need intervention from proper 1-A beings. If they enter on their own, this will downgrade it to Non 1-A.

Literally none of the things u mentioned has anything to do with 1A. This has been mentioned nowhere regarding the void of nothingness anywhere.
As for ur whole energy argument i already told u how it doesn't affect the void and is just created by it like how every other thing is created by the void. The energy is not rooted in the composition of the void.

 

[Secimatar]

Astral's arguments seem to be fine, but I'll still stay neutral for the moment, I see it as a bit vague

There are other statements that call the void nothingness. There are a decent amount of them.

 

[Wikisource]

Literally none of the things u mentioned has anything to do with 1A. This has been mentioned nowhere regarding the void of nothingness anywhere.

You'll see the problem, because nothingness still has physical properties, it's Non 1-A, because there are things that are nothingness but they're not really nothingness. I know this sounds really dumb but that's what happens.

As for ur whole energy argument i already told u how it doesn't affect the void and is just created by it like how every other thing is created by the void. The energy is not rooted in the composition of the void.

Not really make sense to me. You would need something that clearer, "the little world is a part of vast world of void", "void energy came from void", kinds of unclearly statement like this doesn't make sense. So, my opinion doesn't change, I still disargee with this.

Edit: I think I'm done.

 

[Secimatar]

You'll see the problem, because nothingness still has physical properties, it's Non 1-A, because there are things that are nothingness but they're not really nothingness. I know this sounds really dumb but that's what happens.

Bruh what? Nothingness literally lacks space, time or physicality. According to BDE page in Type 2, voids of nothingness are 1-A. So u would have to debunk this wiki before u use that against this.

the little world is a part of vast world of void"

The little world means a universe. The vast world of void simply means the void. This means that our universe is just a part of the void and it is little in comparison to it. Simply, the void contains the universe and is much vast compared to it. This is what a void of nothingness is.

"void energy came from void"

This simply means that void created an energy that we call void energy. Similar to how the void created all of the realities and timeliness.
As for what void energy is, I tried to explain that in one of my previous replies.

 

[Wikisource]

Bruh what? Nothingness literally lacks space, time or physicality. According to BDE page in Type 2, voids of nothingness are 1-A. So u would have to debunk this wiki before u use that against this.

Are you have reading issue or something??? I didn't say void of nothingness in default. I said, nothingness with physical properties.

 

[Secimatar]

Are you have reading issue or something??? I didn't say void of nothingness in default. I said, nothingness with physical properties.

In our case scenario, its a void of nothingness and it doesn't have anti statements. Anti statements in this wiki that can usually exclude a void of nothingness being 1-A are such as it being stated to have time, space, material composition or it not having superiority over reality, it not being bigger than physical reality, etc. The Void from sf has no such statements.

 

[Sebas-S.P-san]

There are other statements that call the void nothingness. There are a decent amount of them.

That is contributable, you should add it in the OP.

 

[ByArrow]

Agree.