Yumiella Sad Low 1-C downgrade + Cosmology Upgrade 1-A

Shiraito983 · Jul 19, 2024

OP notes: Please Read it carefully as it may be confusing for none readers and I'm not proficient in English
or read the cosmology blog first, it's not that long

Intro:

Cosmology is confirmed to have R>F transcendence For a Higher World. thus making them low 1-C for having an ontological difference

Multiverse level, possibly Low Complex Multiverse level with Keep Living (Keep Living is a sacred instrument that is used to manage the world, It’s a sword that can cut away unnecessary worlds, like pruning excess branches from the tree [17], which is the multiverse. Killed Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£, the ruler of the infinite parallel worlds. The Keep Living Sword is implied to be a weapon from a Higher World that trivializes an entire Multiversal Tree into fiction)

THE PROBLEM:

The reason why she got possibly Low 1-C was that the keep living was supposed to be implied from the higher world, which is wrong because of this

“Keep Living,” I whispered it as softly as I could, but the god of evil heard me.

“You fell for my trap, you fool!” He laughed maniacally. “The secateur is a blade that was created with the life force of a human of this realm! You’re a human as well. Prepare to be swallowed by the power of the secateur, which was to be your last hope against me!”

This sword was incredibly bad luck, but there were no signs that I was about to get swallowed. All that had happened was that the surrounding area had gotten darker, as if it were shading towards evening. I looked around, but it didn’t seem like the sun had been covered by clouds, so I wasn’t sure why everything seemed so much dimmer.

Just then, I heard a scream from behind me. I looked back to see Sanon, who was floating in the air, making a fuss. Her fingers were twisted into Lemn’s hair, and it seemed like she was trying to keep herself from being pulled in my direction.

“Why are you guys playing around?!” I scolded.

“D-Does this look like play to you?!” Sanon shrieked.

“Ow, ow!” Lemn cried. “Why are you grabbing my hair of all things?!” Lemn turned his attention to me. “Miss! That sword’s power comes from darkness that is created by transforming light energy!”

Light into darkness, I see. That’s why it got darker, and why Sanon’s about to be sucked into this sword.

I thought we were in a dangerous situation since it had gotten darker, but it appeared the sword was using its true power just as it was supposed to. I was quite surprised, but the god of evil was even more shocked than I was.

“Why?! Its propensity to swallow humans should be the same as it ever was... The requirements to use it safely are knowing the words that serve as its key and being something other than a human from this world. In other words, I am the only one here who should be able to use it.”

OP notes: Context here is that no one should be able to use the keep living for the residents of World tree which is the multiverse, EXCEPT for him who exist outside of the world tree

I see, so the key has two-factor authentication: the key and biometric identification. It won’t start up only with the biometric ID, and only having the password would cause the user to be swallowed by the sword. Maybe biometric identification isn’t the right word though, because a soul isn’t really biological.

“I fit both those requirements,” I said slowly.

“That’s a lie! You’re a human, aren’t you?!”

“Anyone who’s not a human of this world can use it. That’s what you said, right?”

“You... Could it be, that soul was...?!” The god of evil flung himself abruptly into the air. His staticky appearance was erratically wobbling, as if to betray his rage.

The fact that he fled towards the sky is proof he fears the secateur. I have the weapon now, so let’s settle this.

“Patrick!” I called.

“Got it!” he responded.

Just calling his name was enough for Patrick to understand. The ground began to rise up with his magic. It wasn’t going to crumble this time, so now I had stable footing. Fully prepared, I caught up to the god of evil, who was making a beeline towards the sky.

I held the secateur, now correctly dubbed Keep Living, down at my side. The surrounding area became even dimmer.

“Secateur!”

“I knew it!” the god of evil exclaimed. “I knew there was a higher world!”

I tightly gripped Keep Living. A massive pool of magical energy began to pour out of it, as if it were responding to my touch.

“Keep...”

“You must have enjoyed looking down at me from above!” Kugelschreiber seethed with the force of his anger. “I’ll dominate your world, no matter what it takes! No matter—”

I swung the blade. It was a swing that had no swordsmanship or skill to it at all—it was just pure brawn“...Living!”
Vol 3 chapter 5

Thus, he confirms the existence of a higher world through the soul of Yumiella which is not from their world, and unknowingly drifts into the current world. This indirectly implies that it was an intervention of a higher being, as he said that they were enjoying watching him. and it isn't because of the keep-living sword

TLDR:
the higher world exists and Yumiella's soul is the one who confirms the existence of the higher world as an outsider and not the keep-living sword

Summary:

Yumiella loses Low 1-C and returns to 2-C
keep living sword will lose its 2-B, Possibly Low 1-C, and return to 2-C
Cosmology has become solid about the ontological difference which could be useful in future Vol. I think this should pass the current requirements and become 1-A

Agree: @Grabbing_dragon, @Astral_Trinity439
Disagree:
Neutral:

Grabbing_dragon · Jul 19, 2024

Agree

Shiraito983 · Jul 19, 2024

voted counted

ActuallySpaceMan42 · Jul 21, 2024

I forgot if this was covered already, but was it ever explained how a higher being's soul fell into a fictional world? Was it some outside influence, or did it just happen? Cause that could disqualify it for proper R > F differences.

Also, did the god of evil actually have a way of conquering that higher world? If so, what was it?

Shiraito983 · Jul 21, 2024

ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
I forgot if this was covered already, but was it ever explained how a higher being's soul fell into a fictional world?

nothing explained. After she died in Japan, it was stated by the Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â (the god of the tree) that her weak soul was drifting in the border of dimension

ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
Was it some outside influence, or did it just happen? Cause that could disqualify it for proper R > F differences.

it was implied to be the work of a higher being since he confirmed it after Yumiella said this. “Anyone who’s not a human of this world can use it. That’s what you said, right?”

ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
Also, did the god of evil actually have a way of conquering that higher world? If so, what was it?

It was his ambition to conquer the higher world. nothing mention if he has a way since, in the first place, their existence was only a theory at first

ActuallySpaceMan42 · Jul 21, 2024

Yeah, that's iffy. Even weakened, the soul of a being with genuine R > F to a lower world shouldn't be able to just, drift into it without some kind of outside interference.

Shiraito983 · Jul 21, 2024

ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
Yeah, that's iffy. Even weakened, the soul of a being with genuine R > F to a lower world shouldn't be able to just, drift into it without some kind of outside interference.

And this this case. Thing that Yumiella said about higher entities that view Japan as r>f could exist with the way now

Astral_Trinity439 · Jul 21, 2024

Shiraito983 said:
Snip

So basically, its not Keep living that is from a Higher World, but formaIIy Yumiella? I guess that can work

And from my experience of reading this kinds of Anime, the Transmigration process almost always involves some kind of higher being, like the System or a God in most cases. Tho, is there any more implication in-verse that Yumiella and her reincarnation had the involvement of a higher being?

Also, since by this it is proven that Higher Worlds do exist, wouldn't that act as a backing for the Endless Hierarchy theory as well?

“Could it be that I only think that the worlds I govern are part of their own tree? What if they’re actually a clump of branches on a much bigger tree? I can’t deny the possibility that this world might be something like a dollhouse created by a being from a much larger world. Picture it! Those beings could be watching us from above, enjoying us as entertainment!” <br> “Oh...!” I was going to say that sounds stupid, but I almost forgot. This world is the world of an otome game. There are definitely people who are enjoying this world as entertainment. I was one of those very people. “What’s wrong?” the god of evil asked, curious about the sound I’d made. “Oh, it’s nothing. Please continue.” “Well, from the perspective of those in that larger world, I’m nothing but a trivial being frolicking around in their tiny dollhouse. I’m just a clown to them!” Man, if I tell him that this is the world of an otome game, he might just explode from anger. Also, from the way he’s talking, it sounds like the world I’m originally from might be in danger. After gathering enough powerful pawns, the god of evil will probably end up invading Japan. After being attacked by an otome game, Japan will... Wait. Maybe it’s not actually that dangerous of a situation? Upon thinking about it, it just didn’t sound that dire. If you said a god from cyberspace was going to attack, that sounded more urgent. If you instead said it was '''a god from an otome game, it instantly sounded immensely unthreatening.''' Well, god of evil, you’re acting pretty high and mighty, but I hate to break it to you: this is just the world of a dating simulation, buddy. Either way, '''while this might’ve been the world of a fictional story''', the people here were definitely alive, and they made their own choices. That seemed like enough of a qualification for somewhere to be considered a proper world. On top of that, '''there was no guarantee that Japan was the “original” world either'''. My first life could’ve been set in the world of a manga where sorcerers were secretly battling spirits behind the scenes in modern Japan, and my previous self was simply unaware of all that. And then, the world full of even higher beings reading that manga might not be the original either... And so, '''it was an endless cycle'''. I pointed this out. '''“Even if you were to take over the hypothetical world watching over this world, that world might be fictional, just another, bigger dollhouse.” “Then I’ll just take over the world above that one.” “There might be another world above even that one.” “Even if they go on forever, I’ll just continue climbing up.”''' His ambition knew no bounds. Even if he were to endlessly continue invading successive worlds, how would he ever know for certain that he’d reached the root of the tree? I can’t keep dealing with this. I wonder: can he even observe Japan, or even any part of the world where the Japan in which I lived was located?

Anyways, atm I agree, but might change my stance later. Also, you should link the CRT in the 1-A/High 1-A/ Tier 0 Revision Hub

Shiraito983 · Jul 21, 2024

Astral_Trinity439 said:
So basically, its not Keep living that is from a Higher World, but formaIIy Yumiella? I guess that can work

And from my experience of reading this kinds of Anime, the Transmigration process almost always involves some kind of higher being, like the System or a God in most cases. Tho, is there any more implication in-verse that Yumiella and her reincarnation had the involvement of a higher being?

Also, since by this it is proven that Higher Worlds do exist, wouldn't that act as a backing for the Endless Hierarchy theory as well?

Anyways, atm I agree, but might change my stance later. Also, you should link the CRT in the 1-A/High 1-A/ Tier 0 Revision Hub

will do

Astral_Trinity439 · Sep 17, 2024

Shiraito983 said:
Snip

Agree with everything like I said before, but I want to add, you could make a 1-A Key for Yumiella for her original self before she was reincarnated

And for those that might say that Yumi becoming Non 1-A from 1-A itself is an anti-feat, which can also be applied to the overall Reality-Fiction transcendences, she was most likely reduced to 1-A by the caretakers. Because Caretakers can manage Souls, and each Tree/otherworld has its own caretaker, its entirely possible for that caretaker to reincarnate Yumiella, which means there is a higher power, a 1-A caretaker from Yumi's original 1-A World, that reduced her soul to Non 1-A

Digital_Franz · Sep 17, 2024

Astral_Trinity439 said:
Agree with everything like I said before, but I want to add, you could make a 1-A Key for Yumiella for her original self before she was reincarnated

And for those that might say that Yumi becoming Non 1-A from 1-A itself is an anti-feat, which can also be applied to the overall Reality-Fiction transcendences, she was most likely reduced to 1-A by the caretakers. Because Caretakers can manage Souls, and each Tree/otherworld has its own caretaker, its entirely possible for that caretaker to reincarnate Yumiella, which means there is a higher power, a 1-A caretaker from Yumi's original 1-A World, that reduced her soul to Non 1-A

Nah there is a problem here. A big one. The thing is that the humans of Japan themselves would be 1-A however it is more like it is only the caretaker who sees the other worlds below as fiction. Each branch still has a size with some bigger than others, something that a 1-A realm should not have not to mention the fact that these humans of Japan are still subject to space and time. Otomes are complicated because the worlds themselves are not directly video games but worlds whose foundations are those of the video game. I believe that the superiority here is quantitative and it can still meet the criterion of seeing a world as fiction.

Astral_Trinity439 · Sep 17, 2024

Digital_Franz said:
Nah there is a problem here. A big one. The thing is that the humans of Japan themselves would be 1-A however it is more like it is only the caretaker who sees the other worlds below as fiction.

Not really, no, because Yumi herself saw the to-be- her reincarnated world as fiction back in her originaI world, as an otome game. And notice how in her analogy of the reality-fiction hierarchy, she addresses the entire higher worId as something more reaI, "FuII of higher beings reading that manga", that makes it self-evidient that the hierarchy is between Worlds themselves, not just the caretakers.

Digital_Franz said:
Each branch still has a size with some bigger than others, something that a 1-A realm should not have not to mention the fact that

The branches are not the higher worlds, they are parallel worlds. The higher worlds are other trees entirely, governed by completely different laws.

Digital_Franz said:
these humans of Japan are still subject to space and time.

Each 1-A level can have its own notion of Space and Time, so that is not a disqualifier, especially when its stated that each otherworld has its own completely different laws

Digital_Franz said:
Otomes are complicated because the worlds themselves are not directly video games but worlds whose foundations are those of the video game. I believe that the superiority here is quantitative and it can still meet the criterion of seeing a world as fiction.

The term used for lower worlds is not just otome games, they are directly called fictional, many times and even exemplified with the analogy of Mangas. Its even shown that even the caretaker of the lower world where yumi is in himself cannot even as much as observe/perceive the higher worlds.

So the R>F still stands.

Shiraito983 · Sep 17, 2024

r>f still valid.

but the caretaker is still just a fictional part of the Otome game. the past Yumiella viewed their world as a mare game was the one who had r>f and the one responsible for putting her into the game was the higher being, as I said on the op. caretaker confirmed the existence of a higher being when he found out that Yumiella was not from their world. implying they are the ones responsible for putting her into the otome game

Digital_Franz · Sep 17, 2024

Astral_Trinity439 said:
Not really, no, because Yumi herself saw the to-be- her reincarnated world as fiction back in her originaI world, as an otome game. And notice how in her analogy of the reality-fiction hierarchy, she addresses the entire higher worId as something more reaI, "FuII of higher beings reading that manga", that makes it self-evidient that the hierarchy is between Worlds themselves, not just the caretakers.

Not really, no. She says her world she's in is a game because it has the settings of the otome she played in Japan.

Astral_Trinity439 said:
The branches are not the higher worlds, they are parallel worlds. The higher worlds are other trees entirely, governed by completely different laws.

Even more inteiguing.

Astral_Trinity439 said:
Each 1-A level can have its own notion of Space and Time, so that is not a disqualifier, especially when its stated that each otherworld has its own completely different laws

Not with BDE Type 2. With BDE Type 2 there is complete transcendence over dimensionality.

Astral_Trinity439 said:
The term used for lower worlds is not just otome games, they are directly called fictional, many times and even exemplified with the analogy of Mangas. Its even shown that even the caretaker of the lower world where yumi is in himself cannot even as much as observe/perceive the higher worlds.

So the R>F still stands.

Literally. The game is fiction. The manga is fiction. The novel is fiction.

What I see that can also break the R>F is the system of echelons. Yumiella has reached a higher echelon on her own and it is shown with the evil god that the superiority is only quantitative. If the other superior beings are higher echelons then this functioning completely breaks the R>F.

Digital_Franz · Sep 17, 2024

Shiraito983 said:
r>f still valid.

but the caretaker is still just a fictional part of the Otome game. the past Yumiella viewed their world as a mare game was the one who had r>f and the one responsible for putting her into the game was the higher being, as I said on the op. caretaker confirmed the existence of a higher being when he found out that Yumiella was not from their world. implying they are the ones responsible for putting her into the otome game

The analogy is weird to come out. In fact, current Yumiella talks about how when she was in Japan she played Otome which her current world has the bases of this Otome. And concerning the higher being it is not certain because it can just have happened because it had to happen. Then Keep Living. Nothing says that Keep Living does not come from a higher world. Just another assumption.

Shiraito983 · Sep 17, 2024

Digital_Franz said:
The analogy is weird to come out. In fact, current Yumiella talks about how when she was in Japan she played Otome which her current world has the bases of this Otome. And concerning the hogher being it is not certain because it can just have happened because it had to happen. Then Keep Living. Nothing says that Keep Living does not come from a higher world. Just another assumption.

well first on context.
The Keep Living sword can't be used by any human on their world tree, except for the caretaker.

and here is where my point this came in

The requirements to use it safely are knowing the words that serve as its key and being something other than a human from this world. In other words, I am the only one here who should be able to use it.”

I see, so the key has two-factor authentication: the key and biometric identification. It won’t start up only with the biometric ID, and only having the password would cause the user to be swallowed by the sword. Maybe biometric identification isn’t the right word though, because a soul isn’t really biological.

“I fit both those requirements,” I said slowly.

“That’s a lie! You’re a human, aren’t you?!”

“Anyone who’s not a human of this world can use it. That’s what you said, right?”

“You... Could it be, that soul was...?!” The god of evil flung himself abruptly into the air. His staticky appearance was erratically wobbling, as if to betray his rage

and there he goes confirming their existence after hearing that from Yumiela that shes not from their world. implying its their work and must be fun watching him

held the secateur, now correctly dubbed Keep Living, down at my side. The surrounding area became even dimmer.

“Secateur!”

“I knew it!” the god of evil exclaimed. “I knew there was a higher world!”

I tightly gripped Keep Living. A massive pool of magical energy began to pour out of it, as if it were responding to my touch.

“Keep...”

“You must have enjoyed looking down at me from above!” Kugelschreiber seethed with the force of his anger. “I’ll dominate your world, no matter what it takes! No matter—”

I swung the blade. It was a swing that had no swordsmanship or skill to it at all—it was just pure brawn“...Living!”

Astral_Trinity439 · Sep 17, 2024

Digital_Franz said:
Not with BDE Type 2. With BDE Type 2 there is complete transcendence over dimensionality.

BDE2 is transcending dimensionaIity on a non 1-A scaIe, not every possibIe scaIe. AII 1-As are BDE2 by defauIt, so saying 1-As can have their own notion of dimensionaIity but BDE2 cannot have it is iIIogicaI in itseIf
on the other side, here is a case of such things Iike Iayered BDE2 or every BDE2 IeveI having its own space-time concepts

Digital_Franz said:
Not really, no. She says her world she's in is a game because it has the settings of the otome she played in Japan.

Its made cIear in the convo between her and KugeI that its not simpIy because they have the same setting, but because it IS the game she played, the exact same.

Digital_Franz said:
Literally. The game is fiction. The manga is fiction. The novel is fiction.

Yes, thats why its R>F to begin with

Digital_Franz said:
What I see that can also break the R>F is the system of echelons. Yumiella has reached a higher echelon on her own and it is shown with the evil god that the superiority is only quantitative. If the other superior beings are higher echelons then this functioning completely breaks the R>F.

No, the echeIons are not the same as higher worlds to begin with. Even the caretaker of the world Yumi is in, is from a higher echelon despite the caretaker stiII being within the same World/tree as Yumi as a whole

Digital_Franz said:
The analogy is weird to come out. In fact, current Yumiella talks about how when she was in Japan she played Otome which her current world has the bases of this Otome. And concerning the hogher being it is not certain because it can just have happened because it had to happen.

I cannot even fuIIy understand what you are trying to say here, so please rephrase it. In any case, from what I do understand, it being weird has nothing to do with it being true or false.

Digital_Franz said:
Then Keep Living. Nothing says that Keep Living does not come from a higher world. Just another assumption.

Nothing says it does either, tho. We cannot just straight up be assuming that random stuff that can exist in the Iower world comes from a higher world just because the MC used it.

Digital_Franz · Sep 17, 2024

Shiraito983 said:
well first on context.
The Keep Living sword can't be used by any human on their world tree, except for the caretaker.

Yes, but nothing says that it does not come from a higher world.

Shiraito983 said:
and here is where my point this came in

and there he goes confirming their existence after hearing that from Yumiela that shes not from their world. implying its their work and must be fun watching him

Yes she is from another world but there is no evidence that anyone played a role in the migration of her soul. Even the evil god knew that other higher worlds existed and he just got the confirmation.

Digital_Franz · Sep 17, 2024

Astral_Trinity439 said:
Its made cIear in the convo between her and KugeI that its not simpIy because they have the same setting, but because it IS the game she played, the exact same.

Being the game she was playing just means that that game is the model of reality.

Astral_Trinity439 said:
Yes, thats why its R>F to begin with

But fiction does not always refer to qualitative superiority.

Astral_Trinity439 said:
No, the echeIons are not the same as higher worlds to begin with. Even the caretaker of the world Yumi is in, is from a higher echelon despite the caretaker stiII being within the same World/tree as Yumi as a whole

That's why I said it could. I don't think the ladder system was added just to be finished like this. However, that's just my opinion and I wanted to say that future volumes will tell us if I'm right or not.

Astral_Trinity439 said:
I cannot even fuIIy understand what you are trying to say here, so please rephrase it. In any case, from what I do understand, it being weird has nothing to do with it being true or false.

I said Shiraito's analogy was strange because: Yumiella from the past that Shiraito is talking about is Yumiella from Japan who obviously saw the game as fiction.

Astral_Trinity439 said:
Nothing says it does either, tho. We cannot just straight up be assuming that random stuff that can exist in the Iower world comes from a higher world just because the MC used it.

That's my whole point. Just don't make assumptions because by assuming one thing you can also assume another. Especially since the argument used in the previous thread to show that Keep Living came from a higher world managed to convince the staff.

Shiraito983 · Sep 17, 2024

Digital_Franz said:
Yes, but nothing says that it does not come from a higher world.

well. there are a few off points about this. like one if it's about the keep living being from the higher world. he should have confirmed it when he was using it before.

Digital_Franz said:
Yes she is from another world but there is no evidence that anyone played a role in the migration of her soul. Even the evil god knew that other higher worlds existed and he just got the confirmation.

it implied to be work of a higher being as I said above.

Astral_Trinity439 · Sep 18, 2024

Digital_Franz said:
Being the game she was playing just means that that game is the model of reality.

Which still does not contradict the R>F

Digital_Franz said:
But fiction does not always refer to qualitative superiority.

Literally the very name, Fiction, means viewing something as nothing.
Quoting the R>F Definition Page :

What Is Reality-Fiction Transcendence in Detail?
Reality-Fiction Transcendence is a state where a being is qualitatively superior to another world, as a result of seeing the world as fiction and thus being more 'real' than said world. Due to this, the character will be treated as completely superior to the cosmology it transcends, and all characters limited to it, and will thus be granted a higher tier.

Qualifiers
In order to qualify they must view the world as a some actual form of 'fiction', i.e. to them what happens in the fiction is not real and of no physical consequence to their being and also otherwise is of no greater consequence to their being than an actual fictional character could reasonably be to a real life human. However, the medium in which they view the world as fiction generally does not matter, as it being fiction is enough for a Reality-Fiction Transcendence to be considered.

Potential mediums for viewing a cosmology as fiction include: written media (Books or stories), images (Paintings, comics, or movies), data (Simulations or video games), or mental constructs (thoughts or dreams). All of the above would be considered less 'real' than the person who views the cosmology as such, and can directly imply qualitative superiority. Note that the medium is usually a representation or container for the fiction on a higher plane and not necessarily the fiction in itself.

There you have it. Not only are the higher worlds stated to view the lower ones as fiction, the analogy of them viewing the lower worlds as game and manga is also made.

Digital_Franz said:
That's why I said it could. I don't think the ladder system was added just to be finished like this. However, that's just my opinion and I wanted to say that future volumes will tell us if I'm right or not.

They could, does not mean they would or are. Assuming they could be referring to higher worlds is too big of an assumption when all they are treated as is higher quantitative levels within the same world/reality level as a whole.

Digital_Franz said:
I said Shiraito's analogy was strange because: Yumiella from the past that Shiraito is talking about is Yumiella from Japan who obviously saw the game as fiction.

That too is not strange per say, just saying it could have just happened doesnt mean much when it is explicitly implied that a higher being was involved. We can only assume the scenario that has at least some implications shown in the novel, not something that is purely our own theory just because things go like that in other verses or the like.

Digital_Franz said:
That's my whole point. Just don't make assumptions because by assuming one thing you can also assume another. Especially since the argument used in the previous thread to show that Keep Living came from a higher world managed to convince the staff.

Regardless, it is safer to make the assumption about things that have some backing in the material itself, rather then baseless assumptions. Because Keep living was never stated to be from a higher world itself, instead, its explicitly stated that Keep Living was made from the life force of a human from the realm Yumi is currently in post-reincarnation, aka the lower world. Assuming it is from a higher world is just too baseless due to that

Staff have loads of work, and can thus sometimes, by mistake or tiredness, forget/ignore some proof or just be unaware of other proof that was not presented in the previous thread.

Velvian_can · Sep 18, 2024

Shiraito983 said:
OP notes: Please Read it carefully as it may be confusing for none readers and I'm not proficient in English
or read the cosmology blog first, it's not that long

Intro:

Cosmology is confirmed to have R>F transcendence For a Higher World. thus making them low 1-C for having an ontological difference

THE PROBLEM:

The reason why she got possibly Low 1-C was that the keep living was supposed to be implied from the higher world, which is wrong because of this

Thus, he confirms the existence of a higher world through the soul of Yumiella which is not from their world, and unknowingly drifts into the current world. This indirectly implies that it was an intervention of a higher being, as he said that they were enjoying watching him. and it isn't because of the keep-living swo
TLDR:
the higher world exists and Yumiella's soul is the one who confirms the existence of the higher world as an outsider and not the keep-living sword

Summary:

Yumiella loses Low 1-C and returns to 2-C

keep living sword will lose its 2-B, Possibly Low 1-C, and return to 2-C

Cosmology has become solid about the ontological difference which could be useful in future Vol. I think this should pass the current requirements and become 1-A

Agree: @Grabbing_dragon, @Astral_Trinity439
Disagree:
Neutraly

Shiraito983 said:
OP notes: Please Read it carefully as it may be confusing for none readers and I'm not proficient in English
or read the cosmology blog first, it's not that long

Intro:

Cosmology is confirmed to have R>F transcendence For a Higher World. thus making them low 1-C for having an ontological difference

THE PROBLEM:

The reason why she got possibly Low 1-C was that the keep living was supposed to be implied from the higher world, which is wrong because of this

Thus, he confirms the existence of a higher world through the soul of Yumiella which is not from their world, and unknowingly drifts into the current world. This indirectly implies that it was an intervention of a higher being, as he said that they were enjoying watching him. and it isn't because of the keep-living sword

TLDR:
the higher world exists and Yumiella's soul is the one who confirms the existence of the higher world as an outsider and not the keep-living sword

Summary:

Yumiella loses Low 1-C and returns to 2-C

keep living sword will lose its 2-B, Possibly Low 1-C, and return to 2-C

Cosmology has become solid about the ontological difference which could be useful in future Vol. I think this should pass the current requirements and become 1-A

Agree: @Grabbing_dragon, @Astral_Trinity439
Disagree:
Neutral:

Yep, seems good to me I'll agree cuz I don't see any reason why to disagree

Digital_Franz · Sep 18, 2024

Astral_Trinity439 said:
Which still does not contradict the R>F

It can since you all start from the fact that she said the world was her video game. Anyway I'll move on. I think this will be my last post here because I'll be very busy from today.

Astral_Trinity439 said:
Literally the very name, Fiction, means viewing something as nothing.
Quoting the R>F Definition Page :

There you have it. Not only are the higher worlds stated to view the lower ones as fiction, the analogy of them viewing the lower worlds as game and manga is also made.

Yeah that's the statement that is more valid and so far a 5-D world can also see a 4-D world as fiction.

Astral_Trinity439 said:
They could, does not mean they would or are. Assuming they could be referring to higher worlds is too big of an assumption when all they are treated as is higher quantitative levels within the same world/reality level as a whole.

I didn't say they would be or are. Just that the next volumes will tell us. No mention in volumes 4, 5 and 6? Also considering that superiority is quantitative and not qualitative it is a possibility. Again it will probably be in the next volumes.

Astral_Trinity439 said:
That too is not strange per say, just saying it could have just happened doesnt mean much when it is explicitly implied that a higher being was involved. We can only assume the scenario that has at least some implications shown in the novel, not something that is purely our own theory just because things go like that in other verses or the like.

In fact it's not like they're directly involved. He just mentioned that Yumeilla and the people of her world enjoyed looking down on them.

Astral_Trinity439 said:
Regardless, it is safer to make the assumption about things that have some backing in the material itself, rather then baseless assumptions. Because Keep living was never stated to be from a higher world itself, instead, its explicitly stated that Keep Living was made from the life force of a human from the realm Yumi is currently in post-reincarnation, aka the lower world. Assuming it is from a higher world is just too baseless due to that

Staff have loads of work, and can thus sometimes, by mistake or tiredness, forget/ignore some proof or just be unaware of other proof that was not presented in the previous thread.

The problem itself is that the source of the statement on Keep Living is not reliable. Even passing over it, there is a whole thing that is ambiguous: the fact that the evil god spoke of other caretakers higher than him without being certain of the existence of a higher world. He was only certain of the existence of this world after seeing Yumiella and Keep Living yet he wanted to compete with other caretakers.

Yumiella's speech also that it would be weird for the people of Japan to be invaded by an Otome makes you wonder about the means that the evil god would use. Well, whatever, you'll discuss it with Ultima. I'm taking my leave.

Astral_Trinity439 · Sep 18, 2024

Digital_Franz said:
It can since you all start from the fact that she said the world was her video game

Which is stiII R>F regardless

Digital_Franz said:
Yeah that's the statement that is more valid and so far a 5-D world can also see a 4-D world as fiction.

Thats not how its supposed to work. Viewing something fiction is equivalent to viewing it as an Empty set; no matter how much you stack an empty set on top of each other, you will not reach a Non-empty set, even if you do it by an amount larger then inaccessible cardinalities.
Meanwhile, the difference between 4D and 5D is not that of Reality and fiction, at all, for obvious reasons.

Digital_Franz said:
I didn't say they would be or are. Just that the next volumes will tell us.

Exactly, so we cannot make baseless assumptions that are not even implied in any sense

Digital_Franz said:
No mention in volumes 4, 5 and 6?

Idk, didn't read them. I have a limited source of info when it comes to this verse.

Digital_Franz said:
Also considering that superiority is quantitative and not qualitative it is a possibility. Again it will probably be in the next volumes.

So far it is the reality and not a possibility, because being stronger then someone while being in the same reality level is quantitative, nothing more. We do not need to wait for the next volume because we already have enough source material to conclude the basic stuff.

Digital_Franz said:
In fact it's not like they're directly involved. He just mentioned that Yumeilla and the people of her world enjoyed looking down on them.

The very assumption here is that they are directly involved. Why? Because even the reason of Yumiella having the parallel self that she fought was because of the caretaker of her current world; aka, the caretaker can directly effect the distribution of Souls, which speaks for itself what a caretaker of a higher reality can do.

Digital_Franz said:
The problem itself is that the source of the statement on Keep Living is not reliable.

Why is it not reliable? That statement, to my memory, was spoken by the god of darkness, I don't think such a character can be pushed off simply by calling him unreliable.

Digital_Franz said:
Even passing over it, there is a whole thing that is ambiguous: the fact that the evil god spoke of other caretakers higher than him without being certain of the existence of a higher world. He was only certain of the existence of this world after seeing Yumiella and Keep Living yet he wanted to compete with other caretakers.

Each tree has a caretaker. He did believe that there were higher worlds, its just that his belief was confirmed due to the existence of Yumiella.
He didnt want to compete with the other caretakers, rather, he wanted to destroy them simply because their existence meant he himself was viewed as fiction by someone else, which he couldnt emotionally ignore. In that sense, it has quite a bit of a similarity with Demon King Daimaou, in as much as that both Akuto and the Evil God/caretaker of the current world wants to reach the truth and not remain as fiction, and instead reveal it.

Digital_Franz said:
Yumiella's speech also that it would be weird for the people of Japan to be invaded by an Otome makes you wonder about the means that the evil god would use.

Which scan are you referring to?

Digital_Franz · Sep 18, 2024

Astral_Trinity439 said:
Which scan are you referring to?

As I said it was my last answer and this will be the last because we will just lengthen the thread for nothing if we debate and my opinion is insignificant when the staff decides. For this question, by reading the cosmology blog you will find the part I am talking about.

Ultima_Reality · Sunday at 19:30

Yeah, 1-A seems pretty straightforward. Fine by me.

Yumiella Sad Low 1-C downgrade + Cosmology Upgrade 1-A

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