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GGZ Tier 0 Yog Sothoth Upgrade

ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
Loli Yog Sothoth being equal to the actual one is crazy. I don't have much to say on the Tier 0 stuff, like Ultima said, it really is cut and dry. But, the profile needs some serious work. Abilities need explanations, and references at the very least and the formatting is a bit off.
Click to expand...
I tried my best to format and explain the profile. I am relatively new to vsbw and its profile making stuffs. It'd be nice if more experience members help with the profile.
Tier 0 stuffs mainly come from the Tao. I will see Ultima's debunk for that. If that's reasonable, we can place her around outerversal too.
 
I can help with the profile, but you got to give me the references and explanations since I don't know anything about the verse.
 
Aernasilver said:
I can help with the profile, but you got to give me the references and explanations since I don't know anything about the verse.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your help. The references for all of the abilities I listed in the profile are already posted in my op. Take a little bit of time to read through them. If you have something unclear about it, you can just ask here.
 
Wankbreaker said:
you must cultivate more.
Click to expand...
How I feel to hoyoverse and china after seeing this. It also applies to myself

sukuna-you%27re-strong-sukuna-jogo-strong.gif
 
I read the explanation and translated scans but I'm still admittedly a little loss about the nature of The Loli Yog, so if anyone could explain it for me I'd appreciate it, but If Ultima believes it's 0 I won't assume otherwise

Since GGZ is canon to the other Hoyoverse stuff I wonder what this'll imply for the Cosmology itself and what may come of it.
 
The_2nd_Existential_Seed said:
I read the explanation and translated scans but I'm still admittedly a little loss about the nature of The Loli Yog, so if anyone could explain it for me I'd appreciate it, but If Ultima believes it's 0 I won't assume otherwise

Since GGZ is canon to the other Hoyoverse stuff I wonder what this'll imply for the Cosmology itself and what may come of it.
Click to expand...
The nature of Yog Sothoth is simple. She is unrestricted by anything at all. Just like Tao isn't limited by anything that be named of. Everything is unreality since named things only become real after entering the Tao. Tao is pretty abstract idea in Taoism. I will explain as far as I know about it.
Taiji contained duality concepts like ying and yang. Taiji is the first manifestation of Wuji. Wuji is the limitless void sometime considered as the same as Tao in some philosophies. But they aren't the same. While wuji is the limitless void and Taiji being the movement of everything, Tao contains all of them.
Here's an explanation from The Encyclopedia Of Taoism
“The taiji is the One that contains Yin and Yang, or the Three ... This Three is, in Taoist terms, the One (Yang) plus the Two (Yin), or the Three that gives life to all beings (Daode jing 42), the One that virtually contains the multiplicity. Thus, the wuji is a limitless void, whereas the taiji is a limit in the sense that it is the beginning and the end of the world, a turning point. The wuji is the mechanism of both movement and quiescence; it is situated before the differentiation between movement and quiescence, metaphorically located in the space-time between the kun 坤, or pure Yin, and fu 復, the return of the Yang. In other terms, while the Taoists state that taiji is metaphysically preceded by wuji, which is the Dao, the Neo-Confucians says that the taiji is the Dao.”
Click to expand...
Laozi also described Tao as mother of the universe. Since It can't be named at all, He just called it Tao. Yog sothoth is also unrestricted by anything as she transcends everything. Tao is said to be inside the bubble of Yog Sothoth. So, this bubble is Tao and Yog Sothoth isn't? Well no...because entry 5 explained that Bubble is something that she like, not a real thing. It's a metaphorical device.
 
Weaver261 said:
While it's good to provide additional informations that can be helpful to the thread, you should summrized everything you want to add in one message instead of multiple bumps and multiple redo of the same content. You can only bump after 48 hours of inactive.
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oh i see


Weaver261 said:
Not all scans from that is related to this crt. The arguments I made for this crt are already translated from the scans he provided and the scans I provided. This is gonna take serveral weeks again if we wait for translations for unrelated contents for this arguments. There're already translations for that.

Wonderland is a continent constructed by human cognition. Its material basis is the Houkai energy. All cognitions formed by human consciousness will be limited here and form a creature named "Familiar". There is a gap in space between the world of Familiar and the world of human beings, which is convenient for human beings to summon the familiar.
Wonderland details. (Translated)

There are various reasons for the creation of the servant.

  • It can also be a blessing or a curse.
  • It may also be a pre-existence for the servant.
However, in any case, they are all creatures formed by realizing the cognition formed by human consciousness in this Wonderland world based on Houkai energy. And human beings can also summon the servants through the gap in spacetime that connects their world with the servant's world.

Different servants have different abilities. They will use the Houkai energy to do many special things with their own characteristics, and this characteristic also brings them the ability to fight, so that they can often be summoned on the battlefield.

With the help of the servant Hyperion and the Moonlight Throne, after they discovered the new world, they called the new world "Wonderland continent", and it became their new residence. There are many special scenery on this continent, and there are more unknown places waiting for them to dig.

The Original Island (初始岛) is the place where the Servants are originated, and it was also the place where they lived for a long time. But later, due to the war caused by the 2 servants (Hyperion vs Moonlight Throne), the Original Island was once on the verge of destruction. Now, although the war has long since subsided, most of the servant have moved to the Wonderland continent, and only a small part of the servant have chosen to stay.

Freya, the earliest servant, is the servant of this island. She and the other are working hard to establish their own residences.

The small cube that has a certain connection with the world tree will have a certain traction guiding you when you hold it, and when your spirit gets in touch with it, it will breakthrough the barrier of spacetime, take you to the big tree that creates this small cube.

The birth of Wonderland Continent is closely related to the spirit of the ancient tree. In addition, there seems to be an existence responsible for the creation of matter and the creation of life. Among them, the child of the ancient tree spirit, Connor Hord, who can create matter, seems to be the secret of creating life.

Babylon academy all info. These are all translated.

Since I saved the time for the waiting of translations, can you continue to give your evaluation on this crt?
Click to expand...

yes indeed not all of them for Wonderland are here I just grabbed some stuff for it cause they are important cause yog would scale above them and the Worldlines
 
Weaver261 said:
The nature of Yog Sothoth is simple. She is unrestricted by anything at all. Just like Tao isn't limited by anything that be named of. Everything is unreality since named things only become real after entering the Tao. Tao is pretty abstract idea in Taoism. I will explain as far as I know about it.
Taiji contained duality concepts like ying and yang. Taiji is the first manifestation of Wuji. Wuji is the limitless void sometime considered as the same as Tao in some philosophies. But they aren't the same. While wuji is the limitless void and Taiji being the movement of everything, Tao contains all of them.
Here's an explanation from The Encyclopedia Of Taoism

Laozi also described Tao as mother of the universe. Since It can't be named at all, He just called it Tao. Yog sothoth is also unrestricted by anything as she transcends everything. Tao is said to be inside the bubble of Yog Sothoth. So, this bubble is Tao and Yog Sothoth isn't? Well no...because entry 5 explained that Bubble is something that she like, not a real thing. It's a metaphorical device.
Click to expand...
Her dialogue boxes are interesting,
又一个因为过分追求智慧而坠入 深渊的人类灵魂………………或许这对他 来说,也是一种幸福吧?
"Another human soul who fell into the abyss due to excessive pursuit of wisdom... Maybe this is also a kind of happiness for him?" now I am not sure if the abyss is the fancy thing below yogs second form after you open the gate to her with yog or if the abyss you get sent to is the one they talk about in the VN with the SoQ.

如此美妙的宇宙,如此空虚的宇 宙,唯有在其被描述时才具有意 义。
"Such a wonderful universe, such an empty universe, only has meaning when it is described."

唯一能取悦我的,便是人类探索 未知的身影,可惜,这样的人却 变得越来越少了.
"The only thing that can please me is the figure of human beings exploring the unknown. Unfortunately, such people are becoming less and less."

这里是火焰燃烧之地,这里是灵 |魂哀嚎之所,这里是——少女的 房间
"This is the place where the flames burn, this is the place where the soul wails, this is the girl’s room" (Third form after you use the second form to light up the red gate)

"长居宇宙时空之外的神明,拥有着无限的智慧,也因此产生了无穷的寂寞。 在这里,你能得到想要的一切,只不过在得到的同时......或许也会失去意义。The gods who live outside the universe and time have infinite wisdom, and therefore infinite loneliness. Here, you can get everything you want, but at the same time... you may also lose the meaning." <- not sure what this would give

but yea the point is the only way to reach yog is to like do some weird task. "处于某种极端状态下的尤格索托斯,相对于平时来说显得更加危险。 尽管如此,如果有足够的勇气和心理准备,说不定能从她那里获得更多智慧哦? Yog-Sothoth, who is in a certain extreme state, appears more dangerous than usual. Nonetheless, if you have enough courage and mental preparation, maybe you can get more wisdom from her?"
 
LifeRiderthe1 said:
now I am not sure if the abyss is the fancy thing below yogs second form after you open the gate to her with yog or if the abyss you get sent to is the one they talk about in the VN with the SoQ.
Click to expand...
You mean Durandal VN? There's no such connection between the abyss Yog Sothoth mentioned with the abyss of SoQ in Hi3. Hi3 abyss of SoQ is Sa iirc
LifeRiderthe1 said:
The gods who live outside the universe and time have infinite wisdom, and therefore infinite loneliness. Here, you can get everything you want, but at the same time... you may also lose the meaning." <- not sure what this would give
Click to expand...
It just mean how excessive knowledge is meaningless. This is shown in entry 3 where a king obtained wisdom from Yog Sothoth and became crazy.
LifeRiderthe1 said:
but yea the point is the only way to reach yog is to like do some weird task. "处于某种极端状态下的尤格索托斯,相对于平时来说显得更加危险。 尽管如此,如果有足够的勇气和心理准备,说不定能从她那里获得更多智慧哦? Yog-Sothoth, who is in a certain extreme state, appears more dangerous than usual. Nonetheless, if you have enough courage and mental preparation, maybe you can get more wisdom from her?"
Click to expand...
You have to cultivate in order gain wisdom from her.
 
The_2nd_Existential_Seed said:
I read the explanation and translated scans but I'm still admittedly a little loss about the nature of The Loli Yog, so if anyone could explain it for me I'd appreciate it, but If Ultima believes it's 0 I won't assume otherwise
Click to expand...
From what I can gather: Existence here is entirely defined by language, definition, and description, which provides a framework for reality and determines distinctions. Yog-Sothoth is beyond all those things and therefore beyond all boundaries and distinctions, which it sets in place to begin with.

The little story about the Tao seems to confirm that with the statement of "The name that can be named is not the eternal name," followed by "the name that can be named" being stated to be born from Yog-Sothoth's bubbles (i.e. Its power of definition). The story about the Buddha reiterates the same thing by saying a Bodhisattva has to leave behind all the marks of selfness and otherness, and eventually leave behind even the Dharma itself, since it is just a "raft" meant to lead you to what is ultimately ineffable. That, and the bit about all conditioned phenomena being illusions and etc.
 
Okay so I made the profile look better and added scans and references from the OP.

I left Nonduality because I don't know how to explain it and left the descriptions as is.
 
Aernasilver said:
Okay so I made the profile look better and added scans and references from the OP.

I left Nonduality because I don't know how to explain it and left the descriptions as is.
Click to expand...
Thanks, the profile looks a lot better and organized now. Instead of avatar key, Outer God key would be much better imo. Since some outer gods will have 1-A rating too.
 
Few notes. The reason for the BDE Type 2 would be Type 1. I would change Reality Warping, to Space-Time Manipulation & Law Manipulation. You don't have to list what Type of Concept she is for Abstract Existence. Oh, and you can copy the Omniscience Ability reasonings to the Omniscience Intelligence Stat.

And this is just a personal opinion, but it would look better without the spaces.
 
Why is the "Transcends definition and boundaries" bit in the 1-A key? Should that not apply only to the Tier 0 one?

I'd also remove the quote from the Tao Te Ching. The scans from the verse itself should suffice to prove the point.

Overall, profile is still kinda wonky. I'll probably suggest and/or apply improvements later.
 
Weaver261 said:
You mean Durandal VN? There's no such connection between the abyss Yog Sothoth mentioned with the abyss of SoQ in Hi3. Hi3 abyss of SoQ is Sa iirc

It just mean how excessive knowledge is meaningless. This is shown in entry 3 where a king obtained wisdom from Yog Sothoth and became crazy.

You have to cultivate in order gain wisdom from her.
Click to expand...
I figured the abyss for yog would be different then the abyss talked about in the VN. yea i think it was Durandal (if you need to know )

yea I see
 
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
Few notes. The reason for the BDE Type 2 would be Type 1. I would change Reality Warping, to Space-Time Manipulation & Law Manipulation. You don't have to list what Type of Concept she is for Abstract Existence. Oh, and you can copy the Omniscience Ability reasonings to the Omniscience Intelligence Stat.

And this is just a personal opinion, but it would look better without the spaces.
Ultima_Reality said:
Why is the "Transcends definition and boundaries" bit in the 1-A key? Should that not apply only to the Tier 0 one?

I'd also remove the quote from the Tao Te Ching. The scans from the verse itself should suffice to prove the point.

Overall, profile is still kinda wonky. I'll probably suggest and/or apply improvements later.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Done.

For the improvements OP can work on those.

Edit: Or Ultima will I didn't read it properly lol.
 
Last edited:
The fact that Genshin Impact will now share the verse with a Tier 0 is so funny to me lol
Anyway, while I only played Honkai Impact from this verse and don't know much about GGZ, if Ultima agrees with it than it's fine for me too. If this get accepted than I would say that making a Hoyoverse shared page that than redirects to the pages of the single games would be the best course of action since leaving a Tier 0 without a verse page would feel weird, but this can be discussed at a later date. So, I agree with Tier 0 Yog.
 
ThanatosX said:
If this get accepted than I would say that making a Hoyoverse shared page that than redirects to the pages of the single games would be the best course of action since leaving a Tier 0 without a verse page would feel weird, but this can be discussed at a later date. For now, I agree with Tier 0 Yog.
Click to expand...
New CRT for 1-A Outer Gods and Mythical Gods will come after this thread is done. As you suggested, it'd be much cleaner and organized to divided each game into verse pages. We can put ggz characters into ggz verse page without getting people confuse with other games.

Edited - Although this thread is mainly for Yog Sothoth Tier 0, I provided necessary informations for other Outer Gods and Mythical Gods too. You can take a look at these and see if 1-A gods are feasible or not...
 
ThanatosX said:
The fact that Genshin Impact will now share the verse with a Tier 0 is so funny to me lol
Anyway, while I only played Honkai Impact from this verse and don't know much about GGZ, if Ultima agrees with it than it's fine for me too. If this get accepted than I would say that making a Hoyoverse shared page that than redirects to the pages of the single games would be the best course of action since leaving a Tier 0 without a verse page would feel weird, but this can be discussed at a later date. So, I agree with Tier 0 Yog.
Click to expand...
Genshin Impact has always been boundless 🗣️
 
Weaver261 said:
New CRT for 1-A Outer Gods and Mythical Gods will come after this thread is done. As you suggested, it'd be much cleaner and organized to divided each game into verse pages. We can put ggz characters into ggz verse page without getting people confuse with other games.

Edited - Although this thread is mainly for Yog Sothoth Tier 0, I provided necessary informations for other Outer Gods and Mythical Gods too. You can take a look at these and see if 1-A gods are feasible or not...
Click to expand...
Shouldn't Thanatos be decently high cause of beating zeus who had all concepts but death?
 
ain't no way now a loli character gigastomps DC/Marvel

I think someone should make a Honkai Gakuen 2 verse page too since ggz yog is coming from there.
 
LifeRiderthe1 said:
Shouldn't Thanatos be decently high cause of beating zeus who had all concepts but death?
Click to expand...
Thanatos, Azathoth, The Mother, Lupit and Star Dream. They are almost guaranteed for 1-A rating. Zeus and Lord of myrid realms will not have profiles since they lack visual representations. And probably dreamland? I'm not sure about Nyarlathotep though.
 
Dissagree with tier 0


This World behind the door, where time and space have come to a standstill, has only wisdom remaining.
Click to expand...
The realm of yog still exists in space-time, it's just that these two aspects have stopped and this is what yog herself said so it's legit => not tier 0 because it still exists inside space-time

There is this scan that talks about the realm of yog being outside of space-time
The Gods who live beyond the space-time of the Universe have infinite wisdom, but due to that fact they also have endless loneliness. Here you can attain anything you want, except while attaining it... it may also lose its meaning.
Click to expand...
But it says that other characters can completely set foot there and get the power (the akasha thread on nasuverse is also being anti-feat like that because the character can punch a hole to akasha to suck the power, or there are characters who can enter akasha/there are things that can exist inside akasha)

Another scan about yog's realm being outside of space-time and there are characters who can come to absorb the power to control everything
Hello.
Click to expand...

Congratulations on arriving here.
Click to expand...

What's this place, you ask?
Click to expand...

Oh... How should I put it, this is the Kingdom of Heaven, the Sea of Stars, the Immortal World, the Abode outside of Time-Space.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter what it's called, because here you have access to all things, through great divine power.
Click to expand...

So:

1. If we use the scan, yog's realm still exists in space-time => anti-feat because it is limited by space-time.

2. If we use yog's scan realm outside of spacetime => anti feat because another character can reach it and absorb its power and tier 0 which is unreachable can have a character reach it.
 
CallMeWiertz said:
The realm of yog still exists in space-time, it's just that these two aspects have stopped and this is what yog herself said so it's legit => not tier 0 because it still exists inside space-time
Click to expand...
This is flowery language. You're already contradicting urself by quoting entry 5 where it mentioned as a realm outside time and space. Even if the word by Yog Sothoth wasn't flowery language, it means about Wuji which is the motionless void. Wuji is contained inside Tao.
CallMeWiertz said:
Another scan about yog's realm being outside of space-time and there are characters who can come to absorb the power to control everything
Click to expand...
This is completely wrong becuz yog sothoth's avatar Afrogomon hates people entering her chamber without her permission. But yog sothoth still allow her wisdom and power to those who can reach through the gate. As @LifeRiderthe1 scans provide, Yog Sothoth like humans searching for knowledge.
More over, the entry 5 is meta fictional. The speaker welcomed the one who reached here and suddenly ask about the commonality of above four entries. A character in universe wouldn't know about above entries just after arriving there. The speaker is welcoming us, readers.
You, for example, are looking at this line of text, and as I am, looking at you through this line of text.
Click to expand...
Hope this clear things up for you!
 
Question Chinese standards of the Chinese vs community say this isn’t allowed because

“The works they used for upgrading, Tao Te Ching and Diamond Sutra, Cthulhu Mythos and Honkai 2 have nothing to do with each other”
 
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