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The Masked Terror Vs The Boss (Dishonored Vs Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure) 6-5-1

Arcker123

Arcker123

He/Him
8,080
6,170
The Royal Protector Vs The Devil​
  • No clue if this is fair, I liked the match idea tho​
  • Corvo Attano Vs Diavolo​
  • Optional Equipment allowed (Subject to change 🗿)​
  • Second Key Diavolo (As the name implies)​
  • Speed =​
  • SBA Otherwise​
  • Another brilliant idea by Deceived​
  • Scenario: The assasin tries to take the head of a mob boss pushing cocaine into his empire. Can he succeed?​
Spring-Heeled Crow: FantaRin_The_First, StekFence, Deceived, Imouto-tan, Jackythejack, @Arcker123,21st Century Schizoid Man: Eficiente, @Shey, @CBslayeR, @Naitodesu, @WyattR612Incon: @CrackerVolley
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... Okay, to answer a long standing question... What the hell is going to be the interaction between time stop and time skip? If Diavolo's Time Skip can't skip Corvo's Time Stop-let's ignore the fact that Corvo wouldn't know of his foe's time skip and his precog for now-he has a good chance of offing the crimison king; if Time Skip does skip over Time Stop... Corvo is likely going to get dount'ed.

Possession is also a good move, in the sense of knocking Diavolo out to render him helpless, but... Corvo has no idea that Diavolo has an invisible punch ghost that can one-shot him if he gets too close. Granted, Corvo, in-char, is likely to try to sneak kill him from a distance with crossbow bolts and the like and/or enter stealth mode once he gets noticed.

Corvo's Optional Equipment - sides the stuff that help with stealth - are very useless here... since he gets one-shotted if he gets hit.

Want to hear other people ideas of how things might go, but tbh, I am starting to lean towards Diavolo, atm. Want to say that this is not a stomp since Diavolo and Corvo still need to put a lot of effort in offing the other, so don't think there isn't any issues in voting atm.
 
FantaRin_The_First said:
Possession is also a good move, in the sense of knocking Diavolo out to render him helpless, but... Corvo has no idea that Diavolo has an invisible punch ghost that can one-shot him if he gets too close. Granted, Corvo, in-char, is likely to try to sneak kill him from a distance with crossbow bolts and the like and/or enter stealth mode once he gets noticed.
Click to expand...
Yeah. Corvo can’t see the punch ghost but he outranges it pretty hard but KC can block stuff so eh. IC he uses bend time and or stealth. Possession can also be used to disorient Diavolo to make him vomit or sum.

Both of them can one shot each other so it’s really eh on the KC one shot thing (as that’s an advantage they both have).
FantaRin_The_First said:
Corvo's Optional Equipment - sides the stuff that help with stealth - are very useless here... since he gets one-shotted if he gets hit.
Click to expand...
Yeah. Only things that help Corvo here is that and the K.O possession thing

Edit: Diavolo’s Precog can serve as a massive help against stealth tho
 
I would also like to mention that while Corvo has time manip resistance and has been capable of having the ability to remain moving and thinking during the duration of another person's time powers - it was only stopped time, and it might not give Corvo the same protection for something as wild as Time Skip.
 
FantaRin_The_First said:
it was only stopped time
Click to expand...
🗿

Bend time has more time related powers such as accelerating time slightly in stopped time or slowing time and they don’t work on Mark Bearers. That’s why it’s listed as Time Manip Resistances

I think I’d be inclined to agree with the overall message of the post though
 
Well if it helps, it’s generally accepted I believe, that Time skip would skip over Dios time stop, since it takes place within 0 seconds, and time skip lasts 10 seconds
FantaRin_The_First said:
... Okay, to answer a long standing question... What the hell is going to be the interaction between time stop and time skip? If Diavolo's Time Skip can't skip Corvo's Time Stop-let's ignore the fact that Corvo wouldn't know of his foe's time skip and his precog for now-he has a good chance of offing the crimison king; if Time Skip does skip over Time Stop... Corvo is likely going to get dount'ed.

Possession is also a good move, in the sense of knocking Diavolo out to render him helpless, but... Corvo has no idea that Diavolo has an invisible punch ghost that can one-shot him if he gets too close. Granted, Corvo, in-char, is likely to try to sneak kill him from a distance with crossbow bolts and the like and/or enter stealth mode once he gets noticed.

Corvo's Optional Equipment - sides the stuff that help with stealth - are very useless here... since he gets one-shotted if he gets hit.

Want to hear other people ideas of how things might go, but tbh, I am starting to lean towards Diavolo, atm. Want to say that this is not a stomp since Diavolo and Corvo still need to put a lot of effort in offing the other, so don't think there isn't any issues in voting atm.
Click to expand...
 
StekFence said:
Well if it helps, it’s generally accepted I believe, that Time skip would skip over Dios time stop, since it takes place within 0 seconds, and time skip lasts 10 seconds
Click to expand...
Can you elaborate?

If Corvo gets his ability of first then this doesn’t really matter OvO as Diavolo doesn’t resist time manip.
 
Alr so to my understanding, let’s Say Diavalo got his time skip off first. It would be able to skip time stop, no matter how long, because in terms of the timeline, all of the ts contents, are contained in within 0 seconds. After all, time is stopped, it’s not passing. Thus, time skip would skip over time stop. And I think that’s why diavalo has a W vs Dio on his profile rn
 
StekFence said:
Alr so to my understanding, let’s Say Diavalo got his time skip off first. It would be able to skip time stop, no matter how long, because in terms of the timeline, all of the ts contents, are contained in within 0 seconds. After all, time is stopped, it’s not passing. Thus, time skip would skip over time stop. And I think that’s why diavalo has a W vs Dio on his profile rn
Click to expand...
It’s not on profile

Won’t contest this for now.

I guess this match just comes down to whether you think Corvo can activate his time stop vs Diavolo pre cogimg that and time erasing. There’s also a factor of range here i suppose, as Diavolo needs to close in to actually do anything with his stand + time erasure, where Corvo can possess or time stop + range attack to do damge from range.
 
Corvo is sorta limited by game stuff, but in my experience, Corvo can only use time stop twice before he uses all of his mana and has to drink a mana potion to refill it.

I do want to say, however, that I don't think Corvo would use Time Stop first; confronted with an enemy, he might try to retreat with a lot of teleports until he can stealthily hide him in a position in where he can perform stealth attacks - like sniping Diavolo or stabbing him in the back.

... or possess Diavolo's body to knock him out and render him helpless.
 
FantaRin_The_First said:
I do want to say, however, that I don't think Corvo would use Time Stop first; confronted with an enemy, he might try to retreat with a lot of teleports until he can stealthily hide him in a position in where he can perform stealth attacks - like sniping Diavolo or stabbing him in the back.
Click to expand...
I mean, in all IC confrontations in cutscenes, he starts with it.

Ex

His teleportation also has time stop though so it’s still a point I guess
FantaRin_The_First said:
Corvo is sorta limited by game stuff, but in my experience, Corvo can only use time stop twice before he uses all of his mana and has to drink a mana potion to refill it.
Click to expand...
Ye, but all he’d really need is one to win here.
 
Arcker123 said:
It’s not on profile

Won’t contest this for now.

I guess this match just comes down to whether you think Corvo can activate his time stop vs Diavolo pre cogimg that and time erasing. There’s also a factor of range here i suppose, as Diavolo needs to close in to actually do anything with his stand + time erasure, where Corvo can possess or time stop + range attack to do damge from range.
Click to expand...
Uh, don’t blame me, couldn’t see the wiki, maybe it was removed. Idk
 
Screw it, I'mma vote for Corvo- Possession and Time Stop are good win-cons, the former can also knock out Diavolo once possession wears off, so that is a good win-con, I'm also sure Corvo can do it at a bit of a distance - not too far but far enough to avoid getting dounted by a punch ghost that always looks pissed off.
 
How does the possession work? Cos diavalo would start off either with precog and then time erase, or just time erase
 
FantaRin_The_First said:
Screw it, I'mma vote for Corvo- Possession and Time Stop are good win-cons, the former can also knock out Diavolo once possession wears off, so that is a good win-con, I'm also sure Corvo can do it at a bit of a distance - not too far but far enough to avoid getting dounted by a punch ghost that always looks pissed off.
Click to expand...
Well, Corvo can use time stop and ranged attacks like his pistol or bow to oneshot or incap Diavolo from a range beyond KC's. KC would have to close in as via SBA, they start at a range Diavolo can't do much in.
StekFence said:
How does the possession work? Cos diavalo would start off either with precog and then time erase, or just time erase
Click to expand...
Same way as his time stop. Slight hand movement + plus targeting. Corvo essentially needs to wave his hand to win and he does this IC. Diavolo does IC precog before time erasing (He needs to make sure fate is on his side with precog before erasure). It outranges Diavolo pretty hard.

Edit: Corvo doesn't need to aim his timestop
 
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StekFence said:
If it’s not considered a stomp, yes
Click to expand...
It shouldn’t be?

Diavolo’s wincon is faster than Corvo’s (thought based Vs action) it’s just that IC, he won’t use it before Corvo uses his (as he often opts to precog before time erasing and is quite arrogant)

Diavolo has a perfectly tenable win con, which means this isn’t a stomp.
 
From what I can see Diavolo is being underestimated.
  • Range options are not a threat, Diavolo will not try to block them but see them coming via precog, erase time and disappear out of sight by the time time goes back to normal again, having now the trajectory of where the projectiles came like a line being drawn in the air. People didn't point out that his precog helps against projectiles. Given his usual strategy of not being on sight and attack from behind, this new scenario would give Diavolo a certain advantage.
  • It was removed from his profile for being redundant and useless in most situations, but Diavolo himself has Possession of the body he's in. This is a full possession and can even manipulate the memories of the host to fit his ends, Diavolo also shows to remain conscious when Doppio or Trish are the ones controlling the body. So now, in this context, even w/o the Possession being limited, Diavolo would not resist the Possession but remain aware while on it, then screw up Corvo like he could with Doppio and Trish. Heck if Corvo doesn't have feats that show he can Possess a body with 2 souls then there is a solid argument that his possession won't even work on Diavolo.
  • Diavolo doesn't need to make sure fate is on his side with precog before using Time Erase as said here, he simply sometimes doesn't attack his foe before knowing that. In terms of defensive options, mobility and sometimes for no reason, he erases time. Added to it, he can still have precog within Erased Time, which can let him know not to drop it yet if needed to.
So overall, this should be reevaluated. How Diavolo uses his main 2 powers was not handled as well as it could.
 
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Deceived said:
Arcker_1.png
Click to expand...
#Predicted
Eficiente said:
Range options are not a threat, Diavolo will not try to block them but see them coming via precog, erase time and disappear out of sight by the time time goes back to normal again, having now the trajectory of where the projectiles came like a line being drawn in the air. People didn't point out that his precog helps against projectiles.
Click to expand...
This isn't why range was brought up. No one has disagreed with this?

Range was brought up because:

A. Corvo can just time stop + hit a ranged attack at Diavolo to one-shot. The point about range being an advantage for Corvo is the fact that whilst both of their time abilities allow them to gain an immediate advantage, Corvo can abuse this at a longer range. Diavolo has to get within two meters of Corvo to actually do anything to him whilst in time erase, whereas Corvo has ranged attacks that he can use in time stop to avoid this problem. Diavolo wouldn't be able to do anything within time stop as he has no

Nothing you've presented here is a counter to that argument, range was always in reference to time hax (Which Diavolo can't do anything as he doesn't resist time stop.

SBA dictates they start at 4KM (Diavolo has uni range, so by SBA this is true),range is definitely a factor here, especially in regard to two time haxxers who can essentially neg their opponents abilities to do anything. What matters is their ability to capitalize on this, which Corvo would have more capacity to do given his higher range, which is another reason it's advantage for Corvo and threat to Diavolo, not simply Corvo shooting them outright. I agree that Diavolo can counter range through blocking normally through his precog and shi, but he won't be able to do so in time stop.

Also, we even admitted that normal range wouldn't be effective against KC. Obviously precog helps against range normally. That's not why range was brought up!!!!
Eficiente said:
Given his usual strategy of not being on sight and attack from behind, this new scenario would give Diavolo a certain advantage.
Click to expand...
He's gonna be 4KM away. He's not gonna be anywhere close to Corvo by the time time erasure is finished.

Also, Corvo's can predict movements with dark vision, so Corvo would be able to see where he ends up after a skip. Don't quote me on this tho.
Eficiente said:
It was removed from his profile for being redundant and useless in most situations, but Diavolo himself has Possession of the body he's in. This is a full possession and can even manipulate the memories of the host to fit his ends, Diavolo also shows to remain conscious when Doppio or Trish are the ones controlling the body. So now, in this context, even w/o the Possession being limited, Diavolo would not resist the Possession but remain aware while on it, then screw up Corvo like he could with Doppio and Trish. Heck if Corvo doesn't have feats that show he can Possess a body with 2 souls then there is a solid argument that his possession won't even work on Diavolo.
Click to expand...
Firstly, multiple selves doesn't grant resistance to possession. That's not an inherent aspect of the power, nor is that accepted anywhere. Your'e incredulity about Corvo's ability to posess Diavolo on the ground of him having two souls is baseless. There's no reason he would need feats.

I also don't care about Diavolo's ability to affect Corvo whilst Possession is active, nor if he's able to remain in control, as it's not relevant as to why it was brought up as a wincon. Possession was brought up because Corvo can sleep hax his opponent by exiting their body after a possession Corvo can choose to possess Diavolo, then end the ability to score an instant incap win. The wincon possession grants Corvo (and why it was brought up) was that it was effectively ranged sleep hax that didn't travel, which would beat Diavolo if it landed. Nothing you argued counters that wincon. Whether or not Diavolo can control or affect Corvo is irrelevant to the fact that corvo can leave his Diavolo's body (at will or duration) and incap him. There's no resistance on profile so I probably don't have to accept this lmao.
Eficiente said:
Diavolo doesn't need to make sure fate is on his side with precog before using Time Erase as said here, he simply sometimes doesn't attack his foe before knowing that. In terms of defensive options, mobility and sometimes for no reason, he erases time. Added to it, he can still have precog within Erased Time, which can let him know not to drop it yet if needed to.
Click to expand...
I'll concede on the "need" point I guess. The general point of the comment is that he starts with precog, which goes unresponded to.
Eficiente said:
So overall, this should be reevaluated. How Diavolo uses his main 2 powers was not handled as well as it could.
Click to expand...
🗿

Wdym when you say "re-evaluated." People voting doesn't make the debate stop or sum.

If this is a ramble, or incoherent, then sorry. I'm on Iphone.
 
Also, Dishonored 2 does show that his Possession can work on a person with multiple selves, Dr. Hyptia, so Diavolo and Doppio's weird thing going-on might not be able to protect him anyhow.
 
Ngl, starting off at 4Km range becuase of an ability that skips ten seconds is kinda stupid, especially on a char who needs 2m to actually do stuff other then chuck a rock
 
The reason the rule exists is so abilities that are ranged can be used optimally, but this is an ability used at close range
 
StekFence said:
Ngl, starting off at 4Km range becuase of an ability that skips ten seconds is kinda stupid, especially on a char who needs 2m to actually do stuff other then chuck a rock
Click to expand...
StekFence said:
The reason the rule exists is so abilities that are ranged can be used optimally, but this is an ability used at close range
Click to expand...
Blame it on SBA and Diavolo having Universal range on his page for no good reason. I don’t make the rules…
 
StekFence said:
Ngl, starting off at 4Km range becuase of an ability that skips ten seconds is kinda stupid, especially on a char who needs 2m to actually do stuff other then chuck a rock
Click to expand...
Speed Equal and the fact that Diavolo can escape from Corvo's sight and be unaware of where he is until he gets extremely close and could endlessly spam time skip until he does kinda nulls that thing, y'know?
 
I think that I will cast a Vote for Corvo because Possession + Dark Vision + arguably better combat skills

While Crimson Emperor's Time Skip is formidable though randomly spamming it until he gets Corvo doesn't seem like a plausible tactic in my mind. Epitaph's foresight is really useful as a counter to Corvo's Stealth but being that Corvo also can see the future they'd probably counter out each other.

Only other choice that I think is correct is Incon
 
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