Sailor Moon NPI Additions (NEP)

[Azertyhuuh]

I think you're confused, because Both I and the NEP page are not using existence as in all encompassing all of reality context, but rather in the dictionary sense that "spacetime" exists.

On the NEP Type 2 explanation page, it says that 1 represents Existence and 0 represents Nonexistence — not that 1 represents Spacetime.

Spacetime is nothing more than a part of Existence, just one aspect of it. Existence is not merely Spacetime as you assume. Existence contains Spacetime, as well as worlds that lack Spacetime, concepts, laws, and so on...

Existence ≠ Spacetime, and this is something anyone else here would also tell you.

Since the Corridor only encompasses the depths of Spacetime and the void, it does not meet the requirements for NEP Type 2. For it to qualify, this Corridor would need to contain both Existence and Nonexistence at the same time. Only something that contains this duality would be outside the binary of Existence and Nonexistence.

---

And if you don't believe my words, I can give you evidence that Spacetime itself is nothing more than one aspect among many other aspects — even from the NEP page itself↓

• Nonexistent Physiology for his source (Nature Type 2; Aspects Type 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5 [Other: Logic, Law, Fate, History, Causality, Space-Time, Life & Death] - Ad Infinitum layers.

As you can see, Spacetime is only one single aspect among many others. If Spacetime = Existence, then we wouldn't bother putting many other aspects such as concepts, information, fate, logic, life, death, and laws. It would be enough to simply lack Spacetime — according to your logic — in order to lack all these other aspects as well.

As I told you, Spacetime is only a part of Existence, and this is what everyone here would tell you.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

On the NEP Type 2 explanation page, it says that 1 represents Existence and 0 represents Nonexistence — not that 1 represents Spacetime.

Spacetime is nothing more than a part of Existence, just one aspect of it. Existence is not merely Spacetime as you assume. Existence contains Spacetime, as well as worlds that lack Spacetime, concepts, laws, and so on...

Existence ≠ Spacetime, and this is something anyone else here would also tell you.

Since the Corridor only encompasses the depths of Spacetime and the void, it does not meet the requirements for NEP Type 2. For it to qualify, this Corridor would need to contain both Existence and Nonexistence at the same time. Only something that contains this duality would be outside the binary of Existence and Nonexistence.

---

And if you don't believe my words, I can give you evidence that Spacetime itself is nothing more than one aspect among many other aspects — even from the NEP page itself↓

• Nonexistent Physiology for his source (Nature Type 2; Aspects Type 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5 [Other: Logic, Law, Fate, History, Causality, Space-Time, Life & Death] - Ad Infinitum layers.

As you can see, Spacetime is only one single aspect among many others. If Spacetime = Existence, then we wouldn't bother putting many other aspects such as concepts, information, fate, logic, life, death, and laws. It would be enough to simply lack Spacetime — according to your logic — in order to lack all these other aspects as well.

As I told you, Spacetime is only a part of Existence, and this is what everyone here would tell you.

I think you're being way to literal. I am not saying spacetime = existence, all that there is. I am saying that existence of spacetime is 1 and the nonexistence of spacetime is 0. That's page is using existence as an aspect, not an all ecompasing thing.

 

[Mbpoops]

I think you're being way to literal. I am not saying spacetime = existence, all that there is. I am saying that existence of spacetime is 1 and the nonexistence of spacetime is 0. That's page is using existence as an aspect, not an all ecompasing thing.

Well no, because space-time is only an aspect of “1” not the entirety of “1” so yea it woulf just be nep1 aspect 5 (space-time) because all it really does is just lack spacetime

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Well no, because space-time is only an aspect of “1” not the entirety of “1” so yea it woulf just be nep1 aspect 5 (space-time) because all it really does is just lack spacetime

??? what are you talking about? What do you mean is "entirety of 1"?

The 0 and 1 on the NEP page refers to the existent aspect and the nonexistent aspect. You're reading way too much into this and adding a lot of confusing things that don't apply.

The depths of spacetimes is 1 and the void of spacetime is 0. And the corridor is neither of the two.

 

[Mbpoops]

??? what are you talking about? What do you mean is "entirety of 1"?

The 0 and 1 on the NEP page refers to the existent aspect and the nonexistent aspect. You're reading way too much into this and adding a lot of confusing things that don't apply.

The depths of spacetimes is 1 and the void of spacetime is 0. And the corridor is neither of the two.

it should be pretty simple

existence is 1, space-time is an aspect of existence ergo space-time isnt all of existence, it is just a part of existence, and so simply lacking spacetime wouldnt mean you transcend or lack existence as a whole it just means you lack the spatio-temporal aspects of existence.

 

[Maniaunavailable]

actually nvm opoositions made better points lmao, disagree FRA

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

it should be pretty simple

existence is 1, space-time is an aspect of existence ergo space-time isnt all of existence, it is just a part of existence, and so simply lacking spacetime wouldnt mean you transcend or lack existence as a whole it just means you lack the spatio-temporal aspects of existence.

Okay but that’s not what the OP is stating at all. You’re arguing against a strawman and ignoring the actual thing I am stating.

Also existence is 1 is not at all a thing in the wiki standards. You’re twisting the rules with made up things.

 

[Mbpoops]

Okay but that’s not what the OP is stating at all. You’re arguing against a strawman and ignoring the actual thing I am stating.

well, then im gonna be blunt here. your op is wrong.

Also existence is 1 is not at all a thing in the wiki standards. You’re twisting the rules with made up things.

The character doesn't exist in a conventional sense. In terms of binary, this would be a 0, where existence is 1 and nonexistence is 0

sure bro sure

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

well, then im gonna be blunt here. your op is wrong.



sure bro sure

all of existence* is what i should have said

Because the wiki is talking about nonexistent aspects. It opens talking about lacking aspects.

The 1 or 0 is a metaphor for existent aspects and non existent aspect. Type 2 are for things that are neither 1 or 0.

There is no concept of “all of existence” is 1.

 

[Mbpoops]

all of existence* is what i should have said

Because the wiki is talking about nonexistent aspects. It opens talking about lacking aspects.

The 1 or 0 is a metaphor for existent aspects and non existent aspect. Type 2 are for things that are neither 1 or 0.

There is no concept of “all of existence” is 1.

existence being 1 would insinuate all of existence is 1. there is no concept of "all of existence" its just existence.

the 1 and 0 analogy is just an analogy yes, but those aspects that are apart of existence are what make of existence, this includes space and time. the scans in the OP do not support the idea that the cooridoor is simply nonexistent of every aspect or that it simply doesnt exist, just that is lacks spatio-temporal aspects. this can be fufilled by nep1 aspect 5 (space-time) theres no need for nep2

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

existence being 1 would insinuate all of existence is 1. there is no concept of "all of existence" its just existence.

the 1 and 0 analogy is just an analogy yes, but those aspects that are apart of existence are what make of existence, this includes space and time. the scans in the OP do not support the idea that the cooridoor is simply nonexistent of every aspect or that it simply doesnt exist, just that is lacks spatio-temporal aspects. this can be fufilled by nep1 aspect 5 (space-time) theres no need for nep2

since when does nep 2 require all aspects? Like what are you talking about? There are ton of characters with nep 2 for singular aspects

 

[Mbpoops]

since when does nep 2 require all aspects? Like what are you talking about? There are ton of characters with nep 2 for singular aspects

was wrong about that mb, but there still isnt proof about the corridoor being completely nonexistent

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

was wrong about that mb, but there still isnt proof about the corridoor being completely nonexistent

The corridor is a void and that has been accepted as a void on this wiki for years.

 

[Mbpoops]

The corridor is a void and that has been accepted as a void on this wiki for years.

Being a void doesnt automatically mean nep2

Didnt know herrscher of the void was nep2

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Being a void doesnt automatically mean nep2

Didnt know herrscher of the void was nep2

You keep moving the goal posts.

You said there isn’t proof that the corridor is nonexistent and i corrected it. The corridor being a void isn’t the crux of evidence provided in the OP.

The actual thing is that corridor contains both spacetime and the void of spacetime.

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Ngl, this seems like npe3 rather than npe2

 

[Vietthai96]

Huh? What is happening?

A void is textbook NEP1, @Mbpoops @Azertyhuuh you guys are comparing dimension with character. What constitute the existence of a dimension, realm is its dimensions or space-time, so a void that lack space-time or dimensions is a void, a nonexistent dimensions. Yes a character can lack space-time but still existing because they have other things that still constitute their existence, like body and soul, etc....., but dimensions only need to possesses dimensional axes to exist, lacking them mean they are nonexistent dimension, are void, so the OP are arguing about dimension being NEP and interacting with it is NPI interaction

Anyway at best i could see is NEP1 for the corridor, the void of space-time, the way it is phrased doesn't mean literal void of nothingness that devoid space and time, just mean empty space-time

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Ngl, this seems like npe3 rather than npe2

I don’t think so.

Let’s say existence is a kitchen and nonexistence is a bathroom. Type three would be some weird room that is both a kitchen and a bathroom.

Type 2 would be like a house that contains the kitchen and bathroom. A house is more than just the rooms in it. It’s an entire different category and you wouldn’t call a house a kitchen, bathroom, or some combination of the two

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Anyway at best i could see is NEP1 for the corridor, the void of space-time, the way it is phrased doesn't mean literal void of nothingness that devoid space and time, just mean empty space-time

Noway that something that erases things from existence is just empty spacetime, that interpretation literally makes zero sense and only exists to downplay

 

[Mbpoops]

Huh? What is happening?

A void is textbook NEP1, @Mbpoops @Azertyhuuh you guys are comparing dimension with character. What constitute the existence of a dimension, realm is its dimensions or space-time, so a void that lack space-time or dimensions is a void, a nonexistent dimensions. Yes a character can lack space-time but still existing because they have other things that still constitute their existence, like body and soul, etc....., but dimensions only need to possesses dimensional axes to exist, lacking them mean they are nonexistent dimension, are void, so the OP are arguing about dimension being NEP and interacting with it is NPI interaction

i never said it wasnt NEP i just said it wasnt NEP2. i agree with nep 1 aspect 5 (space-time) as i mentioned before since it is lacking space and time however i dont agree with NEP2 i dont think the evidence is sufficient.

simply being a void doesnt consitute NEP but since it has statements of lacking certain aspects of existence (space and time) NEP1 is fine imo

Anyway at best i could see is NEP1 for the corridor, the void of space-time, the way it is phrased doesn't mean literal void of nothingness that devoid space and time, just mean empty space-time

agree

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Bump!

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Bump!

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

This thread is cooked.

Huh? What is happening?

A void is textbook NEP1, @Mbpoops @Azertyhuuh you guys are comparing dimension with character. What constitute the existence of a dimension, realm is its dimensions or space-time, so a void that lack space-time or dimensions is a void, a nonexistent dimensions. Yes a character can lack space-time but still existing because they have other things that still constitute their existence, like body and soul, etc....., but dimensions only need to possesses dimensional axes to exist, lacking them mean they are nonexistent dimension, are void, so the OP are arguing about dimension being NEP and interacting with it is NPI interaction

Anyway at best i could see is NEP1 for the corridor, the void of space-time, the way it is phrased doesn't mean literal void of nothingness that devoid space and time, just mean empty space-time

Please help us out by tagging staff, if you're willing.

 

[Vietthai96]

This thread is cooked.

Please help us out by tagging staff, if you're willing.

@Planck69 @Theglassman12 @ActuallySpaceMan42 @TheGreatJedi13 @MrKerf @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless

Your help is appreciated

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

I agree with

Anyway at best i could see is NEP1 for the corridor, the void of space-time, the way it is phrased doesn't mean literal void of nothingness that devoid space and time, just mean empty space-time

 

[Planck69]

Yeah, I'm largely of the same mind as Viet here, though I am hesitant to even label it Type 1 NEP. And even taking the most generous interpretation possible, why would it having both space-time and a supposed void translate to Idealistic Nonexistence? The leap seems entirely random there.

I did see a mention of erasure though, so can I see that scan in particular?

 

[MrKerf]

I think Viet makes sense, but tbh, I fail to see any NEP here.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

why would it having both space-time and a supposed void translate to Idealistic Nonexistence? The leap seems entirely random there.

The distinction is that it contains both spacetime and the void of spacetime. Not just any void, but the negation of spacetime itself.

The current standards for NEP 2, are level of non-existence that is neither existence (1) or non-existence (0). Isn't NEP 2 for characters that are described as neither existent or non-existent? If something is neither spacetime nor the negation of spacetime, then how do we index it on the profiles? If it doesn't meet the standard for NEP 2, then can someone at least state why and what standard from the page it's missing?

I did see a mention of erasure though, so can I see that scan in particular?

The idea that the term void here means empty space is just extremely erroneous. In the scan in the OP, Sailor Pluto explicitly states that the void of spacetime swallows people up. In another scan, we actually see this in action, so it's not just fancy words:



The void of spacetime is actively opening up and threatening the lives of the sailor guardians. This is clearly not empty space. Sailor Guardians can exist unhindered in the vacuum of space, yet the void threatened their lives. And it clearly shows the void is a thing that really exists.

Not to mention, throughout the entire series, the void is associated with the destruction, death, and negation.

And mind you, Sailor Saturn states directly she is leading Pharaoh 90 to the void, and then tells Sailor Pluto to seal them both inside the Corridor.

 

[Mbpoops]

Could also be nep3 since it contains both existence and non-existence but really if its just space then it would only be aspect 5 for space-time ig

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

I agree with

Could also be nep3 since it contains both existence and non-existence but really if its just space then it would only be aspect 5 for space-time ig

If you would see my response to Planck, I showed scan showing that Viett's interpretation that the void is just empty space doesn't make sense, and is depicted as an active force, something that empty space cannot do nor is a threat to any of the characters who exist normally in vacuums.

 

[Planck69]

The distinction is that it contains both spacetime and the void of spacetime. Not just any void, but the negation of spacetime itself.

The current standards for NEP 2, are level of non-existence that is neither existence (1) or non-existence (0). Isn't NEP 2 for characters that are described as neither existent or non-existent? If something is neither spacetime nor the negation of spacetime, then how do we index it on the profiles? If it doesn't meet the standard for NEP 2, then can someone at least state why and what standard from the page it's missing?

You haven't established that though? You say this corridor contains both space-time and a void lacking space-time, fine. Even taking that at face value, it wouldn't mean the Corridor is neither of these. Containing a space-time and a void doesn't suddenly give you anything, else by that logic any cosmology with a void in it is also Idealistically Nonexistent.

This is just leaping from "contains both" to "lacks neither" as though that's a matter of course.

The idea that the term void here means empty space is just extremely erroneous. In the scan in the OP, Sailor Pluto explicitly states that the void of spacetime swallows people up. In another scan, we actually see this in action, so it's not just fancy words:

Swallowing people up isn't automatically erasure. Is there any other instance where we can tell that's what happens?

The void of spacetime is actively opening up and threatening the lives of the sailor guardians. This is clearly not empty space. Sailor Guardians can exist unhindered in the vacuum of space, yet the void threatened their lives. And it clearly shows the void is a thing that really exists.

Not to mention, throughout the entire series, the void is associated with the destruction, death, and negation.

That says negative aura not "negation". The rest just confirms it has some vaguely destructive properties, which isn't in any doubt. Heck, based on that "negation" scan, the danger looks to be because of absorption more than anything.

If this is the extent of it, then this doesn't even seem to be any form Nonexistent Physiology at all.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

That says negative aura not "negation". The rest just confirms it has some vaguely destructive properties, which isn't in any doubt. Heck, based on that "negation" scan, the danger looks to be because of absorption more than anything.

If negation isn't enough, then Saturn then describes the same ability as erasure.

 

[Planck69]

If negation isn't enough, then Saturn then describes the same ability as erasure.

Can you post the chapter number as well, this seems extremely context dependent. In fact, just reading it at face value, it sounds more like she time paradoxed everything with that "restart history" line. Not to mention this for some reason just assumes I'm gonna see a character say they erased something then assume that this void can do the same.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

This is just leaping from "contains both" to "lacks neither" as though that's a matter of course.

A house contains both a kitchen and a bathroom, yet you cannot replace the word house with either of those and keep the same meaning.

To use this picture as an aid to help me explain myself, if red is spacetime, and blue is the non-existent spacetime, then what is the green?

by that logic any cosmology with a void in it is also Idealistically

That isn't my logic. Having a void isn't enough nor what I am arguing. A verse with both spacetime, and a void, and an encompassing structure that is different from both of them and holds them. That's the logic here. I am trying index the larger structure.

Can you post the chapter number as well, this seems extremely context dependent. In fact, just reading it at face value, it sounds more like she time paradoxed everything with that "restart history" line. Not to mention this for some reason just assumes I'm gonna see a character say they erased something then assume that this void can do the same.

That is from Act. 49. And is a scene where Sailor Saturn is talking about an enemy from the time of the silver millennium. During the silver millennium, Sailor Saturn dropped her glaive and erased it.



This is from Act 33. This Act gives us the back story of the Silver Millennium and how Sailor Saturn dropped her glaive there and is the action Sailor Saturn is describing in Act. 49. Here in Act 38, Sailor Saturn is summoned to the present time and has a call back to act silver millennium again.

In act 38 and 39, Sailor Saturn drops the glaive the same way she did in the silver millennium.





So to summarize, Sailor Saturn drops her glaive and releases destruction to destroy the world. This is described by her as both returning things to the void, and as erasing everything and restarting history. All scans I am showing are all about the same technique from Sailor Saturn.

 

[Planck69]

A house contains both a kitchen and a bathroom, yet you cannot replace the word house with either of those and keep the same meaning.

I sincerely hope this is a joke post and you don't actually think you're making a point here. Not only are these not remotely the same scenario, but the house isn't in some in between state of existence obviously.

To use this picture as an aid to help me explain myself, if red is spacetime, and blue is the non-existent spacetime, then what is the green?

Something that contains both. Not something that's neither. You again, keep assuming that the only explanation is NEP 2 as if that isn't a massive leap.

That isn't my logic. Having a void isn't enough nor what I am arguing. A verse with both spacetime, and a void, and an encompassing structure that is different from both of them and holds them. That's the logic here. I am trying index the larger structure.

And I am telling you that isn't NEP. This is every cosmology with a void in it in existence.

That is from Act. 49. And is a scene where Sailor Saturn is talking about an enemy from the time of the silver millennium. During the silver millennium, Sailor Saturn dropped her glaive and erased it.



This is from Act 33. This Act gives us the back story of the Silver Millennium and how Sailor Saturn dropped her glaive there and is the action Sailor Saturn is describing in Act. 49. Here in Act 38, Sailor Saturn is summoned to the present time and has a call back to act silver millennium again.

In act 38 and 39, Sailor Saturn drops the glaive the same way she did in the silver millennium.





So to summarize, Sailor Saturn drops her glaive and releases destruction to destroy the world. This is described by her as both returning things to the void, and as erasing everything and restarting history. All scans I am showing are all about the same technique from Sailor Saturn.

This now does seem to show this Corridor has a void that erases things, at a glance. So I suppose Viet's NEP 1 proposal works for it specifically.

 

[Mbpoops]

herrscher of the void nep 2 existence

 

[AllForOne]

Interesting thread.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

I sincerely hope this is a joke post and you don't actually think you're making a point here. Not only are these not remotely the same scenario, but the house isn't in some in between state of existence obviously.

It's a metaphor. Like the concept of "greater than the sum of its parts".

NEP 2 is not an in between state either.

Something that contains both. Not something that's neither. You again, keep assuming that the only explanation is NEP 2 as if that isn't a massive leap.

And what is that something? I'm not assuming anything, I am asking a question.

So I suppose Viet's NEP 1 proposal works for it specifically.

I'll put you down for that. But I also have another question on the aspects. The corridor is stated to lack the concept of distance and direction, as well as be timeless, can dimensions also be one of its aspects, a long with spacetime?

Basically:
distance = space, so lacking space
timelessness = so lacking time
direction = dimensions, so lacking dimensions

or does spacetime just encompasses all of that at once?

 

[Mbpoops]

It's a metaphor. Like the concept of "greater than the sum of its parts".

NEP 2 is not an in between state either.

this is exactly why nep2 isnt applicable here because it literally contains spacetime and non spacetime at most its nep3

I'll put you down for that. But I also have another question on the aspects. The corridor is stated to lack the concept of distance and direction, as well as be timeless, can dimensions also be one of its aspects, a long with spacetime?

Basically:
distance = space, so lacking space
timelessness = so lacking time
direction = dimensions, so lacking dimensions

or does spacetime just encompasses all of that at once?

its just aspect 5 (space-time)

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

This is every cosmology with a void in it in existence.

I also want to push back on this.

The corridor it self is described as being timeless and having no concept of distance and direction in addition to having all of spacetime and the void of spacetime.

What other verse has a spacetime, a void, both encompassed in a larger structure that is then described as lacking spatial qualities?