Low Effort/Barely Finished Profiles

[Lycoris4812]

I got permission from @Mr. Bambu

Hello, the topic of this discussion is to possibly add a rule for creating profiles for characters.

I've noticed a small trend where people are making profiles, but only for a character's strongest state, which is normally them at the end of their series. You can see some examples here:

Spoiler

Wang Lin (Renegade Immortal) possible upgrade

Hello, I believe Wang Lin can reach the fourth step, because at the end of Renegade Immortal(The Last Chapter), he achieved the fourth step. This is the translation content I found “I don’t have a name. If I’m the first in the Defying Earth Realm to reach Heaven Trampling, then you are the...

vsbattles.com

Here you can see someone wanting to add a key to Wang Lin's profile. Except this key is him at the end of the novel, and it skips like 12 keys between his current and the one this person wanted to add.

Tier 0 Chen Ye final form from "My Apprentices Are All Future Big Shots" novel

Hello, thanks for reading this. All evidence are included in this page: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:DoFliesCallUsWalks/Chen_Ye_(Transcendent_Singularity) All supporting information are uploaded as pictures on imgur with their appropriate translations written below as descriptions. I...

vsbattles.com

High 1-A+ Chen Ye final form from "My Apprentices Are All Future Big Shots" novel

All scans are in this page additional scans I couldn't fit in are here and here For yall who've read the old thread, new scans are in the final two links of the AP section and the two links above. Thanks yall for reading Agree: Vesxpura, Greg_the_master_of_gods, Bernkastelll Disagree

vsbattles.com

Here's a worse one, this person just wants to add this character's final form. And per their own words, the profile only scales 20 chapters out of like a 1000-chapter novel.

If anyone has more examples, they're welcome to comment, with permission, of course.

But, as you can see, some people are making crts to add keys or profiles only for the sake of making them strong. This leaves the profile very much incomplete and bad-looking. It's very lazy, and there's no promise of the people who are doing this to actually scale the whole character if they just want a strong profile.

I want to clarify that profiles having only the first couple keys is fine, it really only becomes a problem when people skip the majority of a character's profile for the sake of only adding high scaling keys.

Current drafts of the rule:

Option 1:

In order to accurately index characters, contributors should not create profiles that omit a vast majority of a character’s information. An example would be skipping the majority of a characters keys without including their information on the profile, or making a profile that only contains the information of a character in a certain state, when it is possible to include all states. It is acceptable to have profiles worked on over time, assuming a profile is in good order to be posted. But contributors are expected to cover all of a characters statistics, and in sequential order if they have multiple keys.

Option 2:

At the time a character profile is created, it must, at a minimum, represent the character's latest state. If the character permanently loses a significant portion of their powers or abilities later in the story, the profile must also include a key for their strongest, most complete, long-term state. For ongoing series, a state reasonably close to the latest may be used instead, such as the character's state at the end of the most recently completed story arc.

A profile must take the character's history into account. All abilities that the character has acquired and still possesses must be documented, even if they have become largely obsolete over the course of the story. For example, if a character eventually gains the ability to manipulate the entire universe but still retains an earlier ability to create water projectiles, both abilities must be listed on the profile.

Hence, contributors are expected to be sufficiently familiar with the character's progression to accurately document the character's abilities and statistics at the point in the story the profile represents. This requirement exists to ensure that newly created profiles present a complete and up-to-date depiction of the character, rather than an outdated or incomplete one.

Contributors are encouraged to include additional keys representing earlier stages of a character's progression whenever doing so meaningfully documents changes over the course of the story. However, such keys are not required for the initial creation of a profile and may be added at any later time.

Agree: @Antvasima, @Vietthai96, @ActuallySpaceMan42

Neutral:

Disagree:

 

[Antvasima]

This seems reasonable to me.

 

[FinePoint]

What exactly would your proposal be for a rule?

 

[Lycoris4812]

What exactly would your proposal be for a rule?

A rough draft would be something like this:

In order to accurately index characters, contributors should not create profiles that omit a vast majority of a character’s information for the sake of having a strong character on the wiki. An example would be skipping the majority of a characters weaker keys in favor for a high tiering one, or making a profile that only contains information of a character in their strongest state. It is acceptable to have profiles worked on over time, assuming a profile is in good order to be posted. But contributors are expected to cover all of a characters statistics, and in sequential order if they have multiple keys.

 

[FinePoint]

A rough draft would be something like this:

Feels a little accusatory, and implies it's fine if their goal isn't to have a strong character.

 

[Lycoris4812]

Feels a little accusatory, and implies it's fine if their goal isn't to have a strong character.

How about this:

In order to accurately index characters, contributors should not create profiles that omit a vast majority of a character’s information. An example would be skipping the majority of a characters keys without including their information on the profile, or making a profile that only contains the information of a character in a certain state, when it is possible to include all states. It is acceptable to have profiles worked on over time, assuming a profile is in good order to be posted. But contributors are expected to cover all of a characters statistics, and in sequential order if they have multiple keys.

 

[Arceus0x]

To keep up the quality of profiles, it is requested that anyone who posts a new profile does not omit the lower-tiered or earlier keys of a character. An example of such would be skipping the majority of a characters weaker keys in favor for a high tiering one, or making a profile that only contains information of a character in their strongest state. This is necessary so that no contradictions or indexing errors happen in profiles, so that the profiles are kept of high quality and so that the profiles aren't missing any vital abilities or context derived from earlier parts of a series.

 

[FinePoint]

How about this:

That's a lot better, in my opinion.

 

[Antvasima]

In order to accurately index characters, contributors should not create profiles that omit a vast majority of a character’s information. An example would be skipping the majority of a characters keys without including their information on the profile, or making a profile that only contains the information of a character in a certain state, when it is possible to include all states. It is acceptable to have profiles worked on over time, assuming a profile is in good order to be posted. But contributors are expected to cover all of a characters statistics, and in sequential order if they have multiple keys.

To keep up the quality of profiles, it is requested that anyone who posts a new profile does not omit the lower-tiered or earlier keys of a character. An example of such would be skipping the majority of a characters weaker keys in favor for a high tiering one, or making a profile that only contains information of a character in their strongest state. This is necessary so that no contradictions or indexing errors happen in profiles, so that the profiles are kept of high quality and so that the profiles aren't missing any vital abilities or context derived from earlier parts of a series.

Which of these wordings should we use? Or should we write a new version that combines them?

 

[Vietthai96]

I prefer using Lycoris version, it is more broad and covers more possible scenarios, such as a situation where a character would be strongest at the beginning and then getting weaker as the time the verse process its story, so user could only index their strongest state which will be the first key and ignore other keys that represent their later weaker states. Or a situation where user only want to index some certain states of characters and skip other states that is relevant to the story, even if said state is not strongest or weakest state

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for your reply.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I agree and think Lycoris's version covers a good amount.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I disagree.

A profile should absolutely be complete in the sense that it accurately represents the character's abilities, taking everything they have demonstrated throughout the story into account, mentioning the moves they did etc.

However, I don't think that requires every intermediate key to be included. In principle, having only the latest, most complete version of the character is perfectly acceptable.

My first issue is that the point at which a new "key" begins is inherently subjective. It's not always as simple as "one key per arc" or "one key whenever the character's powerset develops in any way." There are characters barely changing over several arcs and others who gain some new ability every chapter. Because of that, requiring contributors to cover "all keys" is not a clearly defined standard.

More importantly, nothing prevents additional keys from being added later. If someone wants to expand the profile with earlier versions, they can always do so. I don't see the benefit of raising the initial barrier to creating a profile.

I'd rather have a well-researched profile that comprehensively covers the character's abilities while using only a final, complete key than have no profile at all because the contributor is expected to document every intermediate stage first.

If the concern is people making incomplete or low-effort profiles, then the rule should target that directly. Requiring every possible key doesn't necessarily produce more complete profiles, it just increases the amount of work needed before a profile can be posted.

We are running a wiki and, in the end, a wiki is meant to be in a constant state of revision. Requiring everything up front in the long term doesn't encourage quality, but just discourages contribution. Worse yet, such a rule encourages adding half-baked keys, stemming from rushed analysis of prior states.

Ultimately, for me, completeness of a profile means it needs to accurately reflect the character in its final (and strongest) state, addressing all things they have ever shown. A chronological historical index of development is nice-to-have, but optional in my eyes.

If we make a rule it should be regarding completeness. A profile that only mentions the god reality-warping powers, while neglecting to mention (perhaps now irrelevant) Ki powers demonstrated earlier, is incomplete and shouldn't be posted. However, I believe if that is what we wish to address, then the rule should actually be about that.
That would address the examples brought up, in my eyes.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that DontTalk makes good points here.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I disagree.

A profile should absolutely be complete in the sense that it accurately represents the character's abilities, taking everything they have demonstrated throughout the story into account, mentioning the moves they did etc.

However, I don't think that requires every intermediate key to be included. In principle, having only the latest, most complete version of the character is perfectly acceptable.

I don’t see how the OP’s inclusion implies that wouldn’t be the case. Their exact wording was that profiles shouldn’t omit a “vast” majority of a character’s information.

If you only include the character’s EOS stats and abilities, then you’re still cutting out that information.

My first issue is that the point at which a new "key" begins is inherently subjective. It's not always as simple as "one key per arc" or "one key whenever the character's powerset develops in any way." There are characters barely changing over several arcs and others who gain some new ability every chapter. Because of that, requiring contributors to cover "all keys" is not a clearly defined standard.

More importantly, nothing prevents additional keys from being added later. If someone wants to expand the profile with earlier versions, they can always do so. I don't see the benefit of raising the initial barrier to creating a profile.

I'd rather have a well-researched profile that comprehensively covers the character's abilities while using only a final, complete key than have no profile at all because the contributor is expected to document every intermediate stage first.

I’d like to mention again that the OP’s suggested rule states that it is acceptable for a profile to be worked on and expanded over time. They’re simply saying that creating keys while skipping over the majority of a character’s feats, or only including details from the very end of the story, does not make for a “well-researched” profile, because it contains little to no information beyond the final chapters.

It would be one thing if the profile were simply a unification of all abilities, resistances, and final stats across the entire series. However, that is not what the OP’s rule is referring to.

They are specifically referring to profiles that are clearly made by picking out only EOS stats and abilities.

If the concern is people making incomplete or low-effort profiles, then the rule should target that directly. Requiring every possible key doesn't necessarily produce more complete profiles, it just increases the amount of work needed before a profile can be posted.

We are running a wiki and, in the end, a wiki is meant to be in a constant state of revision. Requiring everything up front in the long term doesn't encourage quality, but just discourages contribution. Worse yet, such a rule encourages adding half-baked keys, stemming from rushed analysis of prior states.

Ultimately, for me, completeness of a profile means it needs to accurately reflect the character in its final (and strongest) state, addressing all things they have ever shown. A chronological historical index of development is nice-to-have, but optional in my eyes.

If we make a rule it should be regarding completeness. A profile that only mentions the god reality-warping powers, while neglecting to mention (perhaps now irrelevant) Ki powers demonstrated earlier, is incomplete and shouldn't be posted. However, I believe if that is what we wish to address, then the rule should actually be about that.
That would address the examples brought up, in my eyes.

I pretty much addressed this above, but that's not what the OP is suggesting.

 

[Lycoris4812]

Sorry for not replying sooner, been very busy today and working on mobile is annoying.

I disagree.

A profile should absolutely be complete in the sense that it accurately represents the character's abilities, taking everything they have demonstrated throughout the story into account, mentioning the moves they did etc.

However, I don't think that requires every intermediate key to be included. In principle, having only the latest, most complete version of the character is perfectly acceptable.

My first issue is that the point at which a new "key" begins is inherently subjective. It's not always as simple as "one key per arc" or "one key whenever the character's powerset develops in any way." There are characters barely changing over several arcs and others who gain some new ability every chapter. Because of that, requiring contributors to cover "all keys" is not a clearly defined standard.


More importantly, nothing prevents additional keys from being added later. If someone wants to expand the profile with earlier versions, they can always do so. I don't see the benefit of raising the initial barrier to creating a profile.

I'd rather have a well-researched profile that comprehensively covers the character's abilities while using only a final, complete key than have no profile at all because the contributor is expected to document every intermediate stage first.

If the concern is people making incomplete or low-effort profiles, then the rule should target that directly. Requiring every possible key doesn't necessarily produce more complete profiles, it just increases the amount of work needed before a profile can be posted.

We are running a wiki and, in the end, a wiki is meant to be in a constant state of revision. Requiring everything up front in the long term doesn't encourage quality, but just discourages contribution. Worse yet, such a rule encourages adding half-baked keys, stemming from rushed analysis of prior states.

Ultimately, for me, completeness of a profile means it needs to accurately reflect the character in its final (and strongest) state, addressing all things they have ever shown. A chronological historical index of development is nice-to-have, but optional in my eyes.

If we make a rule it should be regarding completeness. A profile that only mentions the god reality-warping powers, while neglecting to mention (perhaps now irrelevant) Ki powers demonstrated earlier, is incomplete and shouldn't be posted. However, I believe if that is what we wish to address, then the rule should actually be about that.
That would address the examples brought up, in my eyes.

I think you misunderstand, I’m fine with people posting a profile with no or only a couple keys and updating it over time. Or skipping keys that may not have that much information or feats, and including the information of such keys in the next one. But that is not what is happening in my examples.

Example one is about the character Wang Lin. Now his profile is outdated and not complete, which is fine. The creator of the CRT wants to add a key that would essentially be his final key, as that is what cultivation realm he reaches at the end of his novel. The problem lies in the fact that the person who wants to add this key is skipping a dozen other possible keys in between his current and the one they want to add. As I said above, if they included the previous keys information in this new key. that would be fine, but they didn’t. The keys they’re skipping aren’t minor either, they would contain a lot of hax and important information. Wang Lin’s current profile is has only been scaled to around chapter 730, since the key they want to add happens at the end of the novel, they would be skipping around 1300 chapters of information, that’s over half of the novel’s length. The creator of the CRT also seemly only wants to add the key for the sake of adding a high tiering key, so there’s no grantee that this person will add the previous keys information.

Example two and three have a similar problem. The creator of those CRTs wants to make a profile of a character that contains only the information of the character in his final key or state at the end of the series. Per this persons words, this profile only contains 20 chapters of information out of around 1000 chapters. This person also seemly only wants to add a high tiering profile to the wiki, so there’s no grantee that they will add the information of the characters previous keys.

Since this wiki wants to index profiles that contain complete and accurate information, I believe there should be a rule against scaling only a portion of a character full information.

Spaceman has also explained my thoughts perfectly.

 

[Antvasima]

@DontTalkDT

It seems like your further evaluations are required here.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I don’t see how the OP’s inclusion implies that wouldn’t be the case. Their exact wording was that profiles shouldn’t omit a “vast” majority of a character’s information.

If you only include the character’s EOS stats and abilities, then you’re still cutting out that information.

I’d like to mention again that the OP’s suggested rule states that it is acceptable for a profile to be worked on and expanded over time. They’re simply saying that creating keys while skipping over the majority of a character’s feats, or only including details from the very end of the story, does not make for a “well-researched” profile, because it contains little to no information beyond the final chapters.

It would be one thing if the profile were simply a unification of all abilities, resistances, and final stats across the entire series. However, that is not what the OP’s rule is referring to.

They are specifically referring to profiles that are clearly made by picking out only EOS stats and abilities.

I pretty much addressed this above, but that's not what the OP is suggesting.

Sorry for not replying sooner, been very busy today and working on mobile is annoying.


I think you misunderstand, I’m fine with people posting a profile with no or only a couple keys and updating it over time. Or skipping keys that may not have that much information or feats, and including the information of such keys in the next one. But that is not what is happening in my examples.

Example one is about the character Wang Lin. Now his profile is outdated and not complete, which is fine. The creator of the CRT wants to add a key that would essentially be his final key, as that is what cultivation realm he reaches at the end of his novel. The problem lies in the fact that the person who wants to add this key is skipping a dozen other possible keys in between his current and the one they want to add. As I said above, if they included the previous keys information in this new key. that would be fine, but they didn’t. The keys they’re skipping aren’t minor either, they would contain a lot of hax and important information. Wang Lin’s current profile is has only been scaled to around chapter 730, since the key they want to add happens at the end of the novel, they would be skipping around 1300 chapters of information, that’s over half of the novel’s length. The creator of the CRT also seemly only wants to add the key for the sake of adding a high tiering key, so there’s no grantee that this person will add the previous keys information.

Example two and three have a similar problem. The creator of those CRTs wants to make a profile of a character that contains only the information of the character in his final key or state at the end of the series. Per this persons words, this profile only contains 20 chapters of information out of around 1000 chapters. This person also seemly only wants to add a high tiering profile to the wiki, so there’s no grantee that they will add the information of the characters previous keys.

Since this wiki wants to index profiles that contain complete and accurate information, I believe there should be a rule against scaling only a portion of a character full information.

Spaceman has also explained my thoughts perfectly.

In that case, I believe there are ways to improve the rules formulation, since the current one appears easy to misunderstand.

contributors are expected to cover all of a characters statistics, and in sequential order if they have multiple keys

That part in my eyes very clearly implies that you need to feature "all keys" in a profile. If you speak about "in sequential order" I don't know which order you mean if not the chronological one, which means "all of a characters statistics" would in that context also be interpreted to include their stats at different points in time (e.g. as a level 5 beginner).
Similar problem with

skipping the majority of a characters keys without including their information on the profile

If I don't include the stats of the character at level 5 /1000, then I am skipping a key and don't include some of its information (stats they might have at level 5) on the profile.

making a profile that only contains the information of a character in a certain state

What is a "state"? In context, I would have assumed this refers to something like a character in their "god-state", i.e. as some EoS multiversal reality warper or something. That would, in that interpretation, also say that we are not just letting the (complete) EoS state of the character stand alone. If that's not meant, then it is not clear.

Arceus0x's proposal seemed to go in that direction as well.


In light of that, I would propose to make this delineation clearer. How about this?

At the time a character profile is created, it must, at a minimum, represent the character's latest state. If the character permanently loses a significant portion of their powers or abilities later in the story, the profile must also include a key for their strongest, most complete, long-term state. For ongoing series, a state reasonably close to the latest may be used instead, such as the character's state at the end of the most recently completed story arc.

A profile must take the character's history into account. All abilities that the character has acquired and still possesses must be documented, even if they have become largely obsolete over the course of the story. For example, if a character eventually gains the ability to manipulate the entire universe but still retains an earlier ability to create water projectiles, both abilities must be listed on the profile.

Hence, contributors are expected to be sufficiently familiar with the character's progression to accurately document the character's abilities and statistics at the point in the story the profile represents. This requirement exists to ensure that newly created profiles present a complete and up-to-date depiction of the character, rather than an outdated or incomplete one.

Contributors are encouraged to include additional keys representing earlier stages of a character's progression whenever doing so meaningfully documents changes over the course of the story. However, such keys are not required for the initial creation of a profile and may be added at any later time.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.

 

[Lycoris4812]

In that case, I believe there are ways to improve the rules formulation, since the current one appears easy to misunderstand.

That part in my eyes very clearly implies that you need to feature "all keys" in a profile. If you speak about "in sequential order" I don't know which order you mean if not the chronological one, which means "all of a characters statistics" would in that context also be interpreted to include their stats at different points in time (e.g. as a level 5 beginner).
Similar problem with

If I don't include the stats of the character at level 5 /1000, then I am skipping a key and don't include some of its information (stats they might have at level 5) on the profile.

What is a "state"? In context, I would have assumed this refers to something like a character in their "god-state", i.e. as some EoS multiversal reality warper or something. That would, in that interpretation, also say that we are not just letting the (complete) EoS state of the character stand alone. If that's not meant, then it is not clear.

Arceus0x's proposal seemed to go in that direction as well.


In light of that, I would propose to make this delineation clearer. How about this?

This wording looks good too, I’ll add it to OP.

 

[Vietthai96]

Yeah, DontTalk new version is good

Thought i remember we have rule about not adding "state" that not relevant in the story or something?

 

[Lycoris4812]

Bump.

 

[Lycoris4812]

Bump.

 

[Lycoris4812]

Bump.

 

[Lycoris4812]

Bump.