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For Miss Mizzle should be: 8-A physically, Low 7-B with Weather Manipulation.
For Flowery i think it should be: 7-B physically far higher with SR, H6A with Telekinesis
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Deltarune: Chapter 5 (SPOILER!!) Discussion Thread
- Thread starter LittleGuy99
- Start date
For Flowery i think it should be: 7-B physically far higher with SR, H6A with Telekinesis
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- High 6-A
Elaborate
Elaborate
Jepilstiltskin
He/Him- 791
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He can turn the VOICE CLIPS option on by himself (I mean, his voice clips have to come from somewhere, right?), and even if we turn it off, he can simply turn it back on again. As he puts it, “Rules are just suggestion”. So yes, he can indeed manipulate the CONFIG menu.
LittleGuy99
He/Him- 1,357
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- Thread starter
- #924
The Titan should be H6A too right?
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We genuely may get High 6A Deltarune (Calc got accepted): https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Edutyn/DT_CH5_Calcs#The_justice_hits_hard
a CRT of the sun being real and the validity of Flowery moving it would be needed tho, maybe when it becomes more than a month of the chapter release so it's not spoilers
This comment is from bread btw and there also another
Edit
This from Edutyn
Using the explosion formula (wich i think was used to obtain the Island Level results). Destruction of a darkworld would be about 200-400 Gigatons (Large Island Level)
BUT
The size of a Dark world can reach up to 1133.856km in radius and about 4 million square kilometers, making it bigger than India but smaller than Australia
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 13,753
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It reads more to me that he can just ignore any set rules, ala a resistance, than actually impose rules on anyone himself.
Unless we count him putting the Knight into a battle to stop it from escaping? But that's like an already pre-established rule.
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If i recall in my playthrough, he doesn't turn it back on. It stays off. He just uses voice clip that one time. A minute or so later when he's talking with susie, she comments that she can't hear his voice clips anymore since we turned them off.
Either he willingly ignores it or willingly complies whenever he wishes. Either way 1-A player is dead in the water.
Randomuser3412
He/Him- 1,073
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If we are indeed "The Angel," the Prophecy mentions us being "banished," so I don't think that was gonna pan out too well anyway
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Yeah but imagine how funny 1-A susie/kris/ralsei would be?
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I mean i can make argument to why it working and why the player cant really control this and pretty due flowey having a limited source of liquid determinetion (aka the 1 a power source)
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Flowery is a regular flower in Deltarune, and has no determination. He can just do that for some reason.
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Determinetion is water
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We gotta be smokin pot for this gng.
Jepilstiltskin
He/Him- 791
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Even if it stays off afterward, I don't think that really hurts his case, since we've already seen that he can turn it back on whenever he wants. It also fits with what he says, rules are just a suggestion. Him leaving it off could simply mean that he's respecting the player's (or Kris's) choice, not that he's incapable of changing it again.
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If the setting stays the same, he's not changing it at all. He's just ignoring the setting itself, which would be a resistance. He wouldn't get anything off the config menu itself beyond a really funny specific resistance.
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Plants have roots Just like Pipes have water in them
Jepilstiltskin
He/Him- 791
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It isn't a resistance, since we can see that it did affect him the moment we turn it off.
Jepilstiltskin
He/Him- 791
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I don't think it's a resistance. If anything, Flowery saying “rules are just a suggestion” implies that the setting does affect him, it's just that he can change it again whenever he wants.
I mean, we literally see the VOICE CLIPS option shut him up the moment we turn it off, only for him to turn it back on himself. And according to @Comiphorous, it'll be turned off again afterward.
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And actively chooses to ignore it not a minute later. It's more likely that he's actively choosing to comply with it, since he refers to it as more of a suggestion rather than him changing the config menu's setting for a single piece of dialogue.
either Flowery has a resistance, or the player has the weakest law manipulation in fiction.
Randomuser3412
He/Him- 1,073
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Yep. The config settings are totally just a tap on the shoulder saying "hey, don't do this thing" to all the characters. Ralsei, being the kind goat he is, listens to this when you turn off Ralseis.
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That's the impression i got. Flowery says they're suggestions, (and most config settings are related to affecting the player's controls specifically) and it'd make sense that Ralsei listens to said suggestion since that mf literally prays to you.
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Seriously guy bro have limited 1A power source
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1-A is gonna pass when I am banned too.
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I'm sorry but you aren't going to send me something that says "toilet theory", link to a section about Tenna talking about pipes and his ex, and assume i'm going to take this seriously to give flowery determination (????)
We also just don't really use theories here. We only profile confirmed info.
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Jepilstiltskin
He/Him- 791
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Chooses to activate it again, you mean. This is the same guy who can turn the RALSEIs option back on as well (albeit with a special effect, which I assume is just for dramatic presentation).
I don't get why giving him Law Manipulation would somehow be a downgrade for the player when we literally have Rouxls Kaard doing the same kind of thing. They're both (the player and Flowery) using the same medium, the CONFIG menu. It's not like the player is uniquely special in that regard.
It's giving the vibe of a mother claiming every share of the bowl just because she's the mother and is supposedly “superior”. They're still eating from the same bowl.
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We never see this in game. You can't just assume he turned on the voice clip setting and turned it back off mid dialogue with no indicator of such. At least for the ralsei thing you can actively see the setting had changed without your input.
Basically; Flowery gets a resistance to some of the weakest Law Manipulation on the entire site, and gets access to manipulating some of the said weakest law manipulation on the site.
Rouxls Kaard manipulates in game battle mechanics for law manipulation, Flowery would be manipulating the player's control over the game. Those are different law manipulation feats. Flowery being able to just say "no" to a being like the angel would deny them from ever having R>F over them.
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Jepilstiltskin
He/Him- 791
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We literally did, twice with Ralsei. There's no reason for Flowery not to use his VOICE CLIPS in that scene after we turn them off if he were completely resistant to the setting. Clearly, he's affected by it until he chooses to turn it back on again. Ironically though, this interpretation requires less assumption than you think.
The player is using the game as the medium, and that's the same medium Flowery is using. Obviously, Flowery would be toast if the CONFIG menu were something the player generated directly as the ultimate source of power, but that's not what's happening, is it? The game rules exist on their own, the player is simply using them at their command.
And it's not like we're trying to argue for a 1-A rating for the player here. Please tell me we're not.
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I mean it literally where shadow crystals come from tho
The lake
And we literally have concept art about this in ice cave in undertale soo...
Jepilstiltskin
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Where does this even coming from, WTF.
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With ralsei, not himself. We get a visual of him actually turning it back on there. His settings seemingly stay the same. You're assuming he changed them back on, and chose to turn them back off a second later despite word for word referring to said setting as a suggestion for himself all without the visuals that are established with ralsei for the sake of Flowery having Law Manipulation by being able to ignore whether or not someone can make others stop talking.
I recall 1-A player being thrown around. Believe there was a CRT too.
Config menu is a very very weak law manipulation.
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I think flowers are kinda op since...thorn ring
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You are stringing random deltarune terms together as a form of ragebait, but i can't prove it. you cannot ragebait me.
LittleGuy99
He/Him- 1,357
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- Thread starter
- #955
Just saying stuff
Jepilstiltskin
He/Him- 791
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So, he can manipulate the CONFIG menu. What are we even arguing about at this point? I mean, I'm down with Flowery having both manipulation and resistance. Two birds bebeh.
Given the opportunity, Flowery could also turn off RALSEIs. The reason he doesn't may simply be because he wants to see whether we will do it, or because he doesn't want to do that to a friend, considering he explicitly tells us not to bully our friends that way. Which, if anything, implies he'd be perfectly willing to use it against an enemy.
It's not weak when Ralsei literally couldn't do anything (not even solving or destroying the puzzle) when he's being turned off. It was as if, his whole function stop completely.
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I mean just remenber what weird route does with noelle
She get self aware of "Roles" meaning you can change your "role" in the story
And what if she change her role from "noelle" to the "Final boss of the ice palace" from dragon blazers ?
That Pretty much why i literally showing you the ice cave concept art
Because there a "angel" there...and who spamton call "Angel" ? It noelle
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A resistance makes more sense for that specific scene. Him having it to "reenable" Ralsei is fine. A mod might say otherwise for simplicity sake but that's up to them.
Ralsei also prays to the angel begging for you to not kill him and all his friends so honestly him listening isn't exactly unexpected. I wouldn't wanna piss off the person who I know who in the future is thinking about causing a great tragedy toward me and my loved ones.
Ralsei also just bypasses the puzzle either way. So doesn't exactly disables his ability to bypass the puzzle in either situation. Ralsei just has to do it differently.
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Anyway more things to "Change Role" theory
Jepilstiltskin
He/Him- 791
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I think we're starting to reach with the “lots of assumptions” argument here, because it can be explained much more simply by saying that Ralsei is genuinely affected by it. Arguing otherwise doesn't really make sense either, especially when this entire segment is about him going against the rules as much as he can to reach Susie before she's talking to Flowery again. He goes to great lengths, like skipping the spike puzzle and outright destroying the box puzzle. Something he wouldn't do if he's completely this dull character that can only “listen to us” or “abide by the rules”, one could just say that he's genuinely being affected by it.
He does bypass the situation, but only on his own terms by turning himself into a bridge. At no point is he shown controlling what the puzzle itself does. He clearly wants to keep progressing, but simply can't do anything else under those conditions.
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