Mushuko Tensei High-Tier AP CTR

[Digital_Franz]

Orsted doesn't necessarily have to be serious for the feat to be impressive. But, regardless of that, I do believe you misinterpreted. I do not believe base Eris / Longsword of Light Eris is High 6-A, I believe she's roughly 6-A, maybe 6-A+. That's why her base is in section two instead of one, so, it seems like we agree there. Also, I know the 98% example / analogy is just to give a scope, but in the case or Orsted, negating even 2% of his battle aura is a feat in of itself. But, regardless of all of this, the Gal Farion and Fighting God feats still stand, so eh.

Yeah still stands with SoL.

Just because he didn't complain much, or complain about Alexander, doesn't mean he didn't try a bit. We know Orsted must consevere mana, the point isn't Alexander = Orsted, or Alexander is relative to Orsted, nor is the point Orsted's power, I'm claiming we can use mana consumption for a rough estimate of power. Regardless, it remains a stable for Alexander's power.

I mean yeah he's trying a bit, just trying, nothing like half full power of whatever.

Also, against Alexander (Fighting God Armor), it's a verbatim statement he used half of his MP, and was taking it seriously. It's not hard to assume this is half power. We were also told how important this MP was, my original CRT explained this.

Half of his mana =/= being half Full Power. He burns like 30% of his mana only to Summon Godblade. And his to beat this argument in the dust, he said he used "all his strength" (obviously had to use magic) while Rudeus didn't deal that much of a damage. The strength he always talks about is his mana and not his actual power.

This is a strawman, as this isn't what I said simply.

When you stated it?

But actually, we do. We know most Dragon Gods relied HEAVILY on their stats, and those who didn't had their powers clearly explained (Urpen, Laplace), and we know via Old Dragon's Tale the capabilities of the first dragon god and the dragon generals, which, is where the majority of Orsted's techniques come from anyways. We also know that Hitogami states he has every technique in the world, and we also know and can take note of every technique Orsted actually uses. Once all of this is noted, yes, we do know the capabilities of the last 100 dragon gods, even if that's not my original claim, and we do know all of Orsted's capabilities, my original claim.

You're lwk losing tracks of your claim.

 

[Zabazab]

I mean, the armor surely got partially destroyed and Badigadi killed (from the inside he sure get cooked badly) due to the uge gap in power.

Orsted obviously lacks full context (the explosion was triggered by the Fighting God interfering with Laplace's reincarnation spell thus causing it to backfire and explode) but what he says here is true, the magic was well beyond the threshold what even the possessed Fighting God could withstand.

The Fighting God Armor kept going until the wearer died. And Badigadi was immortal. We had a perpetual motion machine on our hands.

"How did Laplace defeat it?"

"He hit it with an enormous output of magic that overshot its threshold, temporarily annihilating the wearer and separating them from the armor. It created a great rift in the continent that became the Ringus Sea." —Volume 26, Chapter 1, "The Threat of the Fighting God"

 

[Godslayermeli]

Yeah still stands with SoL.

I mean yeah he's trying a bit, just trying, nothing like half full power of whatever.

Half of his mana =/= being half Full Power. He burns like 30% of his mana only to Summon Godblade. And his to beat this argument in the dust, he said he used "all his strength" (obviously had to use magic) while Rudeus didn't deal that much of a damage. The strength he always talks about is his mana and not his actual power.

When you stated it?

You're lwk losing tracks of your claim.

Yeah still stands with SoL.

Fine by me, SoL is apart of base Eris in my CRT, so sure.

I mean yeah he's trying a bit, just trying, nothing like half full power of whatever.

The trying claim and half power claims are seperate, do not equivocatie them.

Half of his mana =/= being half Full Power. He burns like 30% of his mana only to Summon Godblade. And his to beat this argument in the dust, he said he used "all his strength" (obviously had to use magic) while Rudeus didn't deal that much of a damage. The strength he always talks about is his mana and not his actual power.

Not only is this not the case, it's a contradiction. For one, why aren't mana and power equivalent? That seems stupid and there isn't any reason to uphold it. Secondly, what's the source of that 30% number? It's inherently contradictory, as if it were the case, he would've used 30% of his mana against Rudeus, and would've taken 30 years to regenerate (as your scan states). We know verbatim he used 50% against Alexander, and only around 2 years had passed since the Rudeus fight. Thus, after fighting Alexander, he'd only have 22% of his mana. We know he needs at least half to seal Hitogami, and another half to beat Laplace. (check my sector on Alexander), and thus, he'd need all his mana. We know from the dream that's 50-60 years in the future, that Hitogami is sealed. We know Hitogami cannot be sealed till Laplace is defeated, thus, Orsted would've needed all his mana, but given the regeneration rate and time frame, he'd only have 72-82%.

Also, for the “all his strength” thing, did you read your own statement? Did you expect me not to read it? Because it clearly states he won't be able to use all his strength for a while due to having less mana, not that he did against Rudeus. This also supports the idea that mana = power, and you tried to bend it to say otherwise. Please, do read your statements.

When you stated it?

Crossed for a reason, I already addressed this and explained that I infact, did not claim that.

You're lwk losing track of your claims

Not really, all my claims were clarified upon, or granted, or a compromise was reached. The only read it may seem like I lost track is due to the lack of reading from a few people to whom I will not name.

 

[Godslayermeli]

Orsted obviously lacks full context (the explosion was triggered by the Fighting God interfering with Laplace's reincarnation spell thus causing it to backfire and explode) but what he says here is true, the magic was well beyond the threshold what even the possessed Fighting God could withstand.

You yourself just stated why this statement is unreliable, being that Orsted doesn't have full context. I don't see why we should uphold to his statement that the magic was well beyond the threshold. Also, you'd still have to prove that.

 

[Godslayermeli]

Sure.

While I do agree with you, I think it shoud downscale. I mean, the armor surely got partially destroyed and Badigadi killed (from the inside he sure get cooked badly) due to the uge gap in power. From what Badigadi himself stated multiple times, it should have power comparable to that.

Can you please slide the scan where he explained what he did?

How is that even a Full Potential Orsted? It's just Orsted with FGA, and Orsted brutally gaps that thing even without his FP.

Never saw HALF of his power. Please a scan to back-up your claim.

Funny he never even used his father's skills and techniques. The only technique from a Dragon God he uses is Urupen's technique.

Not to be rude but I genuinely wonder how skills and techniques correlate to power. Because with Orsted especially, he uses his arsenal in the most efficient way to beat the crap out ot the fodders without breaking a sweat and wasting his mana for nothing.

True but ig the logic is handling the scaling chain so the profiles can be created later without a CRT.

Can you please slide the scan where he explained what he did?

I was mistaken, he didn't.

How is that even a Full Potential Orsted? It's just Orsted with FGA, and Orsted brutally gaps that thing even without his FP.

Orsted verbatim states he was fighting at his full potential.

Funny he never even used his father's skills and techniques. The only technique from a Dragon God he uses is Urupen's technique.

This is irrelevant.

Not to be rude but I genuinely wonder how skills and techniques correlate to power. Because with Orsted especially, he uses his arsenal in the most efficient way to beat the crap out ot the fodders without breaking a sweat and wasting his mana for nothing.

When did I state they did?

 

[Zabazab]

I don't see why we should uphold to his statement that the magic was well beyond the threshold.

Because Badigadi was annihilated and thus separated from the armor.

 

[Godslayermeli]

Because Badigadi was annihilated and thus separated from the armor.

He wasnt “annihilated”, please read the original CRT, my CRT has a principle of a regeneration cap, and explained why Badigadi ought to scale to this.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Not only is this not the case, it's a contradiction. For one, why aren't mana and power equivalent?

Mana in Joules lmao.

That seems stupid and there isn't any reason to uphold it.

Rudeus and Laplace are prime example. Rudeus can burn his mana like he can't use his mana like Lapalce.

Secondly, what's the source of that 30% number? It's inherently contradictory, as if it were the case, he would've used 30% of his mana against Rudeus, and would've taken 30 years to regenerate (as your scan states). We know verbatim he used 50% against Alexander, and only around 2 years had passed since the Rudeus fight.

And so?

Thus, after fighting Alexander, he'd only have 22% of his mana. We know he needs at least half to seal Hitogami, and another half to beat Laplace. (check my sector on Alexander), and thus, he'd need all his mana. We know from the dream that's 50-60 years in the future, that Hitogami is sealed. We know Hitogami cannot be sealed till Laplace is defeated, thus, Orsted would've needed all his mana, but given the regeneration rate and time frame, he'd only have 72-82%.

You know, use actual scans for all these numbers. You know Orsted needs 50ù of his mana to break the seal and there he has to battle Hitogami at his Full Power right? By your words he won't fight him at full power, which is clearly wrong.

Also, for the “all his strength” thing, did you read your own statement? Did you expect me not to read it? Because it clearly states he won't be able to use all his strength for a while due to having less mana, not that he did against Rudeus. This also supports the idea that mana = power, and you tried to bend it to say otherwise. Please, do read your statements.

Dude read through the lines bruh. I can't believe this. "I so rarely fight with all my strength" when he's talking about his fight with Rudeus which drained him and "I will be unable to fight with all my strength for a while" just after that statement.

Crossed for a reason, I already addressed this and explained that I infact, did not claim that.


Not really, all my claims were clarified upon, or granted, or a compromise was reached. The only read it may seem like I lost track is due to the lack of reading from a few people to whom I will not name.

Woah and you actually have reading comprehension issues?

When did I state they did?

Your claim bruh.

 

[Godslayermeli]

Mana in Joules lmao.

Rudeus and Laplace are prime example. Rudeus can burn his mana like he can't use his mana like Lapalce.

And so?

You know, use actual scans for all these numbers. You know Orsted needs 50ù of his mana to break the seal and there he has to battle Hitogami at his Full Power right? By your words he won't fight him at full power, which is clearly wrong.

Dude read through the lines bruh. I can't believe this. "I so rarely fight with all my strength" when he's talking about his fight with Rudeus which drained him and "I will be unable to fight with all my strength for a while" just after that statement.

Woah and you actually have reading comprehension issues?

Your claim bruh.

Mana in Joules lmao.

Relevance? Obviously, our eyes have a certain tracking speed, yet we don't measure that in MPH, you can have x thing having speed without having a normative metric for speed. The same is true for fictional power, this is redundant. Also, if you read the original CRT, we had an original calculation on what the mana outputted. This entire thing is redundant.

Rudeus and Laplace are prime example. Rudeus can burn his mana like he can't use his mana like Lapalce.

System x and system y can have the same output and yet one can have a higher efficiency. We know that Rudeus has a Laplace Factor, which allows him to have said mana, in other terms, he has a portion of Laplace's power, and an extremely large mana pool, it's also stated that Rudeus has ≥ mana compared to Laplace. In other terms, Rudeus could have a similar output and less efficiency. This is supported by the fact that the scan you linked stated and I quote:

“He was a master of making use of his mana... ...If you tried to use your mana like he did, you'd blow your own body apart in an instant!”

This proves the point of efficiency even further, it's claimed he used his mana in such a particular way, in which, if Rudeus tried it, he'd die. This proves they can have similar output and yet lower efficiency. Furthermore, Badigadi also states that Rudeus has ≥ mana than Laplace (see the Rudeus section 1 in my CRT).

Also, why is Badigadi even a reliable source / account for Laplace's efficiency? He only had one conflict with Laplace that ended almost instantly.

And so?

This is a concession, and it's relevant as you made fake numbers. Not a good sign for your credibility.

You know, use actual scans for all these numbers. You know Orsted needs 50ù of his mana to break the seal and there he has to battle Hitogami at his Full Power right? By your words he won't fight him at full power, which is clearly wrong

I told you were the scans were, being the Alexander section of my CRT, if you read it fully, you'd know that as it was a talking point in the CRT originally. Also, where's the scans for the last two claims there? Being that he needs 50% to break the seal, and then to battle at full power. The only time he references how much mana he needs for Hitogami to my memory is the one I linked, in which, it never explains why he needs the mana, nor that he'll go “all out”, so please, do show proof.

Dude read through the lines bruh. I can't believe this. "I so rarely fight with all my strength" when he's talking about his fight with Rudeus which drained him and "I will be unable to fight with all my strength for a while" just after that statement.

Your the one reading between the lines, but, instead of trying to reason with you, I'll just quote the original:

A thousand times longer? That would be, what... thirty years or so?
“As a result of this, I cannot wield magic freely. And that is the reason I so rarely fight with all my strength.”
Aha. Basically, his mana regenerated so slowly that he couldn’t use it very often. I didn’t know how large his mana supply was, but assuming it took years for it to refill, he’d have to be very careful about conserving power.
“While I cannot use the secret art itself on you, the bracelet I gave you provides a similar effect.”
I glanced down at the bracelet on my left wrist. Apparently it was a Man-God jamming device of sorts. “So this doesn’t have any side effects? Maybe if we mass-produced it...”
“I would have done so already, if it were possible. And removed my curse as well.”
Right. Kind of a dumb question.
“I used a considerable amount of mana in my battle against you,” Orsted continued. “I will be unable to fight with all my strength for a while.”
“Huh? Wait, really? But you took me out instantly.”
“I was forced to resist direct hits from your magic many times, and ultimately to draw the Godblade,” said Orsted, his tone of voice distinctly bitter. “It cost me a great deal.

It clearly states that Orsted had to use a considerable amount of mana, and that he rarely goes all out due to the issue of slow regeneration. Nowhere does it state that he went “all out” against Rudeus, and we have heavy evidence to suggest otherwise. For example, it's claimed he had to use more mana against Alexander, who we know made Orsted use half of his mana, and thus, Rudeus must've used under half, so this claim falls flat on its head. Furthermore, looking at the context, Rudeus was simply asking about Orsted's alleged four curses, and the out of context passage you cited is Orsted speaking of the recovery rate and why he won't go all out often.

TLDR: If Orsted had actually gone all out, he wouldn't have 50% of his mana to use against Alexander, and it's stated Alexander forced more mana than Rudeus. The context also debunks the claim of Rudeus forcing Orsted to go all out, and thus, you cannot claim mana ≠ power, as Rudeus did not force Orsted to use all his mana nor go all out like the “debunk” originally claimed.

Woah and you actually have reading comprehension issues?

Let's not resort to claiming the opponent cannot read, as, simply, it would be hypocritical.

Your claim bruh.

Again, when?

 

[Digital_Franz]

Relevance? Obviously, our eyes have a certain tracking speed, yet we don't measure that in MPH, you can have x thing having speed without having a normative metric for speed. The same is true for fictional power, this is redundant. Also, if you read the original CRT, we had an original calculation on what the mana outputted. This entire thing is redundant.

Woah didn't think we had this kind of args these days around but ig the world is full of surprise.

System x and system y can have the same output and yet one can have a higher efficiency. We know that Rudeus has a Laplace Factor, which allows him to have said mana, in other terms, he has a portion of Laplace's power, and an extremely large mana pool, it's also stated that Rudeus has ≥ mana compared to Laplace. In other terms, Rudeus could have a similar output and less efficiency. This is supported by the fact that the scan you linked stated and I quote:

OK my point then: YOU HAVE NO PROOF ORSTED USED HIS EFFICIENCY AT ITS PEAK (Full Power) AGAINST ALEC.

This proves the point of efficiency even further, it's claimed he used his mana in such a particular way, in which, if Rudeus tried it, he'd die. This proves they can have similar output and yet lower efficiency. Furthermore, Badigadi also states that Rudeus has ≥ mana than Laplace (see the Rudeus section 1 in my CRT).

Yeah and so the argument of Half mana == half Full Power falls apart as efficiency comes above.

Also, why is Badigadi even a reliable source / account for Laplace's efficiency? He only had one conflict with Laplace that ended almost instantly.

Seriously? Badigadi is one of the oldest in the verse and he quite fought Laplace himself.

This is a concession, and it's relevant as you made fake numbers. Not a good sign for your credibility.

Dude can't even get the part in bold. I'm asking you in what ways it matters that he fought Alec only 2 years after his fight with Rudeus.

I told you were the scans were, being the Alexander section of my CRT, if you read it fully, you'd know that as it was a talking point in the CRT originally.

I'm talking about him needing 50% for Laplace, because all he said is that without the superds he'll just use Godblade.

Also, where's the scans for the last two claims there? Being that he needs 50% to break the seal, and then to battle at full power. The only time he references how much mana he needs for Hitogami to my memory is the one I linked, in which, it never explains why he needs the mana, nor that he'll go “all out”, so please, do show proof.

How is the dude not going to go all-out and take on Hitogami? When Hitogami has the power of the OG Human God.

Your the one reading between the lines, but, instead of trying to reason with you, I'll just quote the original:

It clearly states that Orsted had to use a considerable amount of mana, and that he rarely goes all out due to the issue of slow regeneration. Nowhere does it state that he went “all out” against Rudeus, and we have heavy evidence to suggest otherwise.

Okay to help you with this I actually have this. Unless you pull some crazy skills at work on this, with the other it's pretty clear that Orsted is saying he went at "full strength" when it wasn't his FP.

For example, it's claimed he had to use more mana against Alexander, who we know made Orsted use half of his mana, and thus, Rudeus must've used under half, so this claim falls flat on its head.

Yes that's exactly my point. Trying to scale idk random dudes on Orsted is flat.

Furthermore, looking at the context, Rudeus was simply asking about Orsted's alleged four curses, and the out of context passage you cited is Orsted speaking of the recovery rate and why he won't go all out often.

Orsted talked about their battle tho.

TLDR: If Orsted had actually gone all out, he wouldn't have 50% of his mana to use against Alexander, and it's stated Alexander forced more mana than Rudeus. The context also debunks the claim of Rudeus forcing Orsted to go all out, and thus, you cannot claim mana ≠ power, as Rudeus did not force Orsted to use all his mana nor go all out like the “debunk” originally claimed.

Never did I say he went all-out on Rudeus dude. My point is that your "he used half of his FP because he used half of his MP" is wrong because it doesn't correlate.

Using half of his mana is just a stamina issue, nothing to do with his power in general, and do keep in mind that in that half you should include the large part consumed by Dragon Blade's summoning and he used all that mana in 10 minutes (he always finishes a fight quickly when summoning Dragon Blade because the longer the fight lasts, the more mana he loses). Just for your information, there is no such thing here as "using half of your mana equal using half your true strength".

Let's not resort to claiming the opponent cannot read, as, simply, it would be hypocritical.

Good sir, let me return the advice/warning to you.

Again, when?

I disagree with the interpretation here. For one, Orsted state he's dawned the fighting god armor before, and explained both the armor and what he did, so we do know what a full potential Orsted can do. We also have a rough estimate of his power, as we have seen half of his power, and thus, we could always multiply that by two. Furthermore, we know of all the techniques of the past dragon gods, and of the series, and hence, we know of all his abilities. So, we do know what a full power Orsted and a full potential Orsted look like, even if they weren't directly in the story.

 

[Godslayermeli]

Woah didn't think we had this kind of args these days around but ig the world is full of surprise.

OK my point then: YOU HAVE NO PROOF ORSTED USED HIS EFFICIENCY AT ITS PEAK (Full Power) AGAINST ALEC.

Yeah and so the argument of Half mana == half Full Power falls apart as efficiency comes above.

Seriously? Badigadi is one of the oldest in the verse and he quite fought Laplace himself.

Dude can't even get the part in bold. I'm asking you in what ways it matters that he fought Alec only 2 years after his fight with Rudeus.

I'm talking about him needing 50% for Laplace, because all he said is that without the superds he'll just use Godblade.

How is the dude not going to go all-out and take on Hitogami? When Hitogami has the power of the OG Human God.

Okay to help you with this I actually have this. Unless you pull some crazy skills at work on this, with the other it's pretty clear that Orsted is saying he went at "full strength" when it wasn't his FP.

Yes that's exactly my point. Trying to scale idk random dudes on Orsted is flat.

Orsted talked about their battle tho.

Never did I say he went all-out on Rudeus dude. My point is that your "he used half of his FP because he used half of his MP" is wrong because it doesn't correlate.

Using half of his mana is just a stamina issue, nothing to do with his power in general, and do keep in mind that in that half you should include the large part consumed by Dragon Blade's summoning and he used all that mana in 10 minutes (he always finishes a fight quickly when summoning Dragon Blade because the longer the fight lasts, the more mana he loses). Just for your information, there is no such thing here as "using half of your mana equal using half your true strength".

Good sir, let me return the warning to you.

Woah didn't think we had this kind of args these days around but ig the world is full of surprise

Not a refutation, so whatever.

OK my point then: YOU HAVE NO PROOF ORSTED USED HIS EFFICIENCY AT ITS PEAK (Full Power) AGAINST ALEC

When did I claim such? My argument relies on output, and seemingly, you don't disagree that output and efficiency can be seperate. The claim that Orsted used half his output still stands. I never claimed Orsted went “all out” against Alexander anyways.

Yeah and so the argument of Half mana == half Full Power falls apart as efficiency comes above.

Efficiency ≠ Output, I explained this originally but I can explain the concept more in-depth. Let's take character A and character B. They can exert the same output, but character B is more efficient. Overall, if both use half their output, they're both using half of their power, even if B may use it more efficiently.

Seriously? Badigadi is one of the oldest in the verse and he quite fought Laplace himself.

Age ≠ Knowledge, and I acknowledged they fought, I asked how he would know Laplace's efficiency even though their fight ended nearly immediately. Especially with Laplace being weakened from his former two fights. I simply don't see why Badigadi would have proper knowledge on that.

Dude can't even get the part in bold. I'm asking you in what ways it matters that he fought Alec only 2 years after his fight with Rudeus.

Since Orsted regenerates mana a thousand times slower, it takes years for him to do so. Given this, he wouldn't have enough mana to fight Alexander if he had gone all out against Rudeus.

I'm talking about him needing 50% for Laplace, because all he said is that without the superds he'll just use Godblade.

Rudeus states Orsted had used 50% of his MP, once more, this statement is in the original imgur links in the CRT.

How is the dude not going to go all-out and take on Hitogami? When Hitogami has the power of the OG Human God.

This isn't a substantial rebuttal. I already explained that we only know Orsted needed roughly half his mana to defeat the Man-God / Hitogami. I explicitly asked you to back up your claims. You can't just ask me to disprove them, it's a textbook burden shift.

Okay to help you with this I actually have this. Unless you pull some crazy skills at work on this, with the other it's pretty clear that Orsted is saying he went at "full strength" when it wasn't his FP.

Orsted... ...isn't the one stating this. Rudeus is stating the true power thing. Which, we know Orsted has achieved greater heights (vs Alexander). For all we know, this could be in reference to utilizing a large deal of mana, or the god blade. As simply, Rudeus hadn't actually seen Orsted's full power at this point (or at any point).

Yes that's exactly my point. Trying to scale idk random dudes on Orsted is flat.

.? What I said didn't fault my arguments, while it did fault yours, is this a concession again?

Orsted talked about their battle tho.

Sure he talked about their battle, that doesn't prove that your “orsted used all his mana / went all out” interpretation is the case, as the overarching context is that of the curses and slow mana regeneration, which is what they were speaking of before the cropped screenshot you sent. Source: Volume 15.

Never did I say he went all-out on Rudeus dude. My point is that your "he used half of his FP because he used half of his MP" is wrong because it doesn't correlate.

I'm not even gonna bother, instead, how about you read your own quotes?

“And his to beat this argument in the dust, he said he used "all his strength" (obviously had to use magic) while Rudeus didn't deal that much of a damage. The strength he always talks about is his mana and not his actual power.” - You, claiming Orsted used all of his strength.

“Dude read through the lines bruh. I can't believe this. "I so rarely fight with all my strength" when he's talking about his fight with Rudeus which drained him and "I will be unable to fight with all my strength for a while" just after that statement.” - You, doubling down.

Next:

Using half of his mana is just a stamina issue, nothing to do with his power in general, and do keep in mind that in that half you should include the large part consumed by Dragon Blade's summoning and he used all that mana in 10 minutes (he always finishes a fight quickly when summoning Dragon Blade because the longer the fight lasts, the more mana he loses). Just for your information, there is no such thing here as "using half of your mana equal using half your true strength".

The fight in question was off screen. All we know is that he used godblade, we have no idea if that's why his mana was drained, we don't know if that's how his mana was drained, etc. In other words, Hitchens Razor kills this argument.

Also, we only have one other instance of Orsted drawing the godblade, and that was when he was in close quarters with a mid to long range fighter (Rudeus), and the fight didn't end there, as Eris stepped in and her and Orsted fought for an indetermine, but yet, decent amount of time. My reasoning for believing the time to be decently long is due to the fact Rudeus regenerated a large portion of his mana. In other words, claiming the godblade ends fighings quickly I'd rather redundant, and even if I did accept everything you said, it uses a large deal of mana, and thus, it could actually support mana usage = power. But, I don't believe your arguement to be sound so I shall not grant it.

Good sir, let me return the warning to you.

Do not project your problems onto me.

 

[Digital_Franz]

When did I claim such? My argument relies on output, and seemingly, you don't disagree that output and efficiency can be seperate. The claim that Orsted used half his output still stands. I never claimed Orsted went “all out” against Alexander anyways.

Erm he used half his mana capacity sure but is the efficiency also "half his full power"? I doubt that.

Efficiency ≠ Output, I explained this originally but I can explain the concept more in-depth. Let's take character A and character B. They can exert the same output, but character B is more efficient. Overall, if both use half their output, they're both using half of their power, even if B may use it more efficiently.

Yeah and so you're trying to say half mana == half power when efficiency =/= outfut. Dude.

Age ≠ Knowledge, and I acknowledged they fought, I asked how he would know Laplace's efficiency even though their fight ended nearly immediately. Especially with Laplace being weakened from his former two fights. I simply don't see why Badigadi would have proper knowledge on that.

Dude get the sentence as a whole intsead of trying to nitpick.

Since Orsted regenerates mana a thousand times slower, it takes years for him to do so. Given this, he wouldn't have enough mana to fight Alexander if he had gone all out against Rudeus.

And I'm also saying he wasn't going all-out against Rudeus.

Rudeus states Orsted had used 50% of his MP, once more, this statement is in the original imgur links in the CRT.

Damn that was his fight with Alec not something about Laplace. You're confusing yourself.

This isn't a substantial rebuttal. I already explained that we only know Orsted needed roughly half his mana to defeat the Man-God / Hitogami. I explicitly asked you to back up your claims. You can't just ask me to disprove them, it's a textbook burden shift.

Put substance in your claims first to get substantial rebuttal. Good sir we need that statement avec 50% for Laplace.

Orsted... ...isn't the one stating this. Rudeus is stating the true power thing. Which, we know Orsted has achieved greater heights (vs Alexander). For all we know, this could be in reference to utilizing a large deal of mana, or the god blade. As simply, Rudeus hadn't actually seen Orsted's full power at this point (or at any point).

Mental gymnastics. Yeah dude. You aren't proving anything, sorry. Rudeus is stating the true power thing especially because Orsted made him understand that he fought at true power against him, something he doesn't do generally (which here isn't even about his FP but using magic and Godblade and wasting a lot of mana).

.? What I said didn't fault my arguments, while it did fault yours, is this a concession again?

Your argument was wrong from the start because I claimed nothing. (I will repeat myself, but Orsted trying a bit is far from using his FP or half his FP, but just using magic or Godblade)

Sure he talked about their battle, that doesn't prove that your “orsted used all his mana / went all out” interpretation is the case, as the overarching context is that of the curses and slow mana regeneration, which is what they were speaking of before the cropped screenshot you sent. Source: Volume 15.

I never ever said Orsted went all-out on Rudeus dude. Read that post again, it's the first of this page.

I'm not even gonna bother, instead, how about you read your own quotes?

You need that actually.

The fight in question was off screen. All we know is that he used godblade, we have no idea if that's why his mana was drained, we don't know if that's how his mana was drained, etc. In other words, Hitchens Razor kills this argument.

I doesn't really matter why and how his mana was drained, the thing is that in that "half mana" you'll remove the "large volume of mana" from Godblade (which you can't even quantify) and the rest will be what Orsted actually wasted somehow and then see how that argument about he used half his power falls apart because he never used half his mana (because Godblade got a good part of it).

Also, we only have one other instance of Orsted drawing the godblade, and that was when he was in close quarters with a mid to long range fighter (Rudeus), and the fight didn't end there, as Eris stepped in and her and Orsted fought for an indetermine, but yet, decent amount of time.

He packed the fight with Rudeus and with Eris he just ducked the fight and moved on to negotiations.

My reasoning for believing the time to be decently long is due to the fact Rudeus regenerated a large portion of his mana. In other words, claiming the godblade ends fighings quickly I'd rather redundant, and even if I did accept everything you said, it uses a large deal of mana, and thus, it could actually support mana usage = power. But, I don't believe your arguement to be sound so I shall not grant it.

The thing you're forgetting is that it's an overtime thing.

Do not project your problems onto me.

You have more problems than you think.

 

[Godslayermeli]

Erm he used half his mana capacity sure but is the efficiency also "half his full power"? I doubt that.

Yeah and so you're trying to say half mana == half power when efficiency =/= outfut. Dude.

Dude get the sentence as a whole intsead of trying to nitpick.

And I'm also saying he wasn't going all-out against Rudeus.

Damn that was his fight with Alec not something about Laplace. You're confusing yourself.

Put substance in your claims first to get substantial rebuttal. Good sir we need that statement avec 50% for Laplace.

Mental gymnastics. Yeah dude. You aren't proving anything, sorry. Rudeus is stating the true power thing especially because Orsted made him understand that he fought at true power against him, something he doesn't do generally (which here isn't even about his FP but using magic and Godblade and wasting a lot of mana).

Your argument was wrong from the start because I claimed nothing. (I will repeat myself, but Orsted trying a bit is far from using his FP or half his FP, but just using magic or Godblade)

I never ever said Orsted went all-out on Rudeus dude. Read that post again, it's the first of this page.

You need that actually.

I doesn't really matter why and how his mana was drained, the thing is that in that "half mana" you'll remove the "large volume of mana" from Godblade (which you can't even quantify) and the rest will be what Orsted actually wasted somehow and then see how that argument about he used half his power falls apart because he never used half his mana (because Godblade got a good part of it).

He packed the fight with Rudeus and with Eris he just ducked the fight and moved on to negotiations.

The thing you're forgetting is that it's an overtime thing.

You have more problems than you think.

Erm he used half his mana capacity sure but is the efficiency also "half his full power"? I doubt that.

Yeah and so you're trying to say half mana == half power when efficiency =/= outfut. Dude.

Already explained this both literally and gave an analogy.

Dude get the sentence as a whole intsead of trying to nitpick.

I addressed both parts of the sentence.

And I'm also saying he wasn't going all-out against Rudeus.

Your argument was wrong from the start because I claimed nothing. (I will repeat myself, but Orsted trying a bit is far from using his FP or half his FP, but just using magic or Godblade)

I never ever said Orsted went all-out on Rudeus dude. Read that post again, it's the first of this page.

You stated as such. Do not go back on your word.

Damn that was his fight with Alec not something about Laplace. You're confusing yourself.

Put substance in your claims first to get substantial rebuttal. Good sir we need that statement avec 50% for Laplace.

You mean the statements of Alexander forcing Orsted to use half his mana, that he was planning to use on Laplace... ...that were in my original CRT that I've referenced extensively?

Mental gymnastics. Yeah dude. You aren't proving anything, sorry. Rudeus is stating the true power thing especially because Orsted made him understand that he fought at true power against him, something he doesn't do generally (which here isn't even about his FP but using magic and Godblade and wasting a lot of mana).

You tried to use the statements to prove the full power / all strength narrative you were pushing. This is a concession on point from your part: “which isn't even about his FP”

I doesn't really matter why and how his mana was drained, the thing is that in that "half mana" you'll remove the "large volume of mana" from Godblade (which you can't even quantify) and the rest will be what Orsted actually wasted somehow and then see how that argument about he used half his power falls apart because he never used half his mana (because Godblade got a good part of it).

It's a verbatim statement he used half of his mana. This is another concession on your part, as you tried to argue for the means earlier.

He packed the fight with Rudeus and with Eris he just ducked the fight and moved on to negotiations.

The thing you're forgetting is that it's an overtime thing.

They fought for a bit before the negotiations began, and obviously, he'd put the sword away when negotiations start. So, I'm in reference to the actual Eris v Orsted fight, not the negotiations. This should be obvious.

Anyways, this is going nowhere as you cannot track. Frankly, I've gone over this debate with people who are, and people who are not familiar with MT, and it's practically unanimous that I'm making a more coherent point. I also don't believe your tracking my points, or your own points, as you keep conceding to my points believing you're negating them, you also have shown agreeance with almost everything I've stated, and at this point, this discussion is about Orsted— a character the CRT doesn't even cover. So, I'll stop responding unless I see a coherent argument, I'll simply wait for moderation or another person giving a negation at this point.

 

[Digital_Franz]

You stated as such. Do not go back on your word.

Half of his mana =/= being half Full Power. He burns like 30% of his mana only to Summon Godblade. And his to beat this argument in the dust, he said he used "all his strength" (obviously had to use magic) while Rudeus didn't deal that much of a damage. The strength he always talks about is his mana and not his actual power.

All right, you kinda have to reread this part. He had to use "all his strength" ie had to used magic and summoning Godblade, things he normally doesn't do and wasted a lot of mana as a result.

You mean the statements of Alexander forcing Orsted to use half his mana, that he was planning to use on Laplace... ...that were in my original CRT that I've referenced extensively?

Laplace and Hitogami dude. Cutting the sentence rn? Funny.

He had used the mana he’d been saving for Laplace and the Man-God.

You tried to use the statements to prove the full power / all strength narrative you were pushing. This is a concession on point from your part: “which isn't even about his FP”

Negative tracking skills on play lmao. Idk if you can read and understand my posts but I said he never used his FP, just wasted a lot of mana on Rudeus.

It's a verbatim statement he used half of his mana. This is another concession on your part, as you tried to argue for the means earlier.

Dude reading comprehension skills. The mana to summon Godblade is in that "half of his mana" he used as a whole during the fight. I don't even see what sort of analogy I should use for you to understand this point. I don't know how you see your concessions but ig skill issues.

They fought for a bit before the negotiations began, and obviously, he'd put the sword away when negotiations start. So, I'm in reference to the actual Eris v Orsted fight, not the negotiations. This should be obvious.

Yeah a bit, not as long as with Alec.

Anyways, this is going nowhere as you cannot track. Frankly, I've gone over this debate with people who are, and people who are not familiar with MT, and it's practically unanimous that I'm making a more coherent point. I also don't believe your tracking my points, or your own points, as you keep conceding to my points believing you're negating them, you also have shown agreeance with almost everything I've stated, and at this point, this discussion is about Orsted— a character the CRT doesn't even cover. So, I'll stop responding unless I see a coherent argument, I'll simply wait for moderation or another person giving a negation at this point.

Negative tracking skills all over the place.