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UNDERTALE/DELTARUNE [shiny new] DISCUSSION THEAD



Starts at 8:10

(Second hand sourcing, yeah. Sort of; Link to a video showing a video of someone watching a clip, lol.)

Point is, although Friend doesn't appear in Chapter 1, in Chapter 2, it appears before the layout of a room in the basement of Queen's Mansion changes. (Removing exit pathways, plus, it's seen just before the previously not present teacups reach Kris.)

In Chapter 4, Friend appears, as shown in the clip. It appears in a room with a sound wave button. It's not clear if the sound wave button spawns the alcove &/or the chest, but to see Friend's face in that room (Which is in a hole made inaccessible by walls.), due to Friend & the background both being black in colour, you need sound waves, especially the yellow ones like those the sound wave button makes, to see Friend's face.

But more importantly, after doing this & exiting the room, the path to it disappears.

In Chapter 2, Friend got rid of a pathway. (& maybe also made the teacups, it's not clear where those arose from.)
In Chapter 4, Friend got rid of a pathway, again.

It brings up questions:
Is it possible to see Friend's face in Chapter 2 & then exit the room through the exit Friend removes? (Such as by getting at the edge or the spawn?) (Without taking the teacups to go do the Secret Boss stuff that gets Kris out of the basement the longer, more regular way, of course.)
Can Friend's face in Chapter 4 be seen with only Kris's footsteps' blue soundwaves, or do you need to hit the button to see it?


It also seems like Friend's face & body have a pattern, which Chapter 3 reinforces, sort of; The FRIENDs that appear in the Shadow Mantle Holder's boss fight are obvious. Big, moving bodies, multiple, moving, they make noise when struck, they spawn items... & being struck/defeated makes them spawn a fleetingly visible face.

In Ralsei's Chapter 3 explanation cutscene, be it canon or not, Friend's body is visible. (Why it charges at the screen, IDK? Jumpscare? Did "Friend" transcend being an imagined explanation tool component & think that was enough to get at the Player, &/or did Friend only think that it had achieved that, hence its effort to "attack" the Player? Maybe because it recognized it was in a scene only the player can see, so it thought it was in a space with the player?)

Anyway, the point is, every time Friend's body appears, it's obvious.
Every time Friend's face appears, it's fleeting &/or hard to notice. (Sort of so in the Battat Minigame, too, AFAIK?)
This pattern to its appearance seems less important so far, though, IMHO.

& of course, there's the mixed-up Organikk's dialogue.

Un-mixed-up, it says: "Lost where the forest would grow, the children followed the pointed tail. The poor children!"

It's unclear why the phrasing is "Where the forest would grow" (Maybe a Dark World version of the forest, hence it only being a "would"; It's not real, so the forest does not grow, for it only would if the Dark World were not there? If that even makes sense. Can stuff grow where a Dark World is...?), but....

December Holiday. The "lost girl".

Once again, the questions. Do we need to see Friend/meet its conditions (Hitting the button, going to where the teacups will rise, etc.) for it to change the layout?

The Organikk hadn't given an explanation for why those words make the children pitiable. Maybe just for preserving a dramatic reveal, maybe because there was an explanation in the word.
What if, the case is that if you "follow" Friend, by meeting the conditions to see it, you become lost, because Friend changes the layout?
Dess, who explored the forest with friends all the time, became lost, in a place near or in a forest. Was she in the shelter & Friend removed the entrance, & then a Dark World opened up or something? Was she exploring the forest, & followed Friend, which made her "lost"? Can Friend appear in the Light World?

Did Friend close the door when Kris & Susie entered the supply closet's Dark World?


Still very speculative, but potential Creation, Destruction, Spatial Manipulation, Reality Warping, &/or Causality/Law Manipulation (If you follow Friend, you become "lost"?) feat(s)?


IDK, maybe I'm overthinking this.

Anyway, what do you all think?
 
Randomuser3412 said:
I want the Knight to absolutely destroy Asgore and the Fun Gang in Chapter 5. I want there to be no chance of anyone calling it a fraud anymore.
Click to expand...
I want it to appear in the Light World & slice Asgore's truck in half, because:

1. The idea that Asgore took out Dess in a (drunk) driving incident is ridiculous.
2. The idea that Asgore's truck could have taken out The Knight is ridiculous.
3. It would be funny to see The Knight slice Asgore's truck in half.
 
Imaginym said:
I want it to appear in the Light World & slice Asgore's truck in half, because:

1. The idea that Asgore took out Dess in a (drunk) driving incident is ridiculous.
2. The idea that Asgore's truck could have taken out the Knight is ridiculous. Dess is the Knight is ridiculous
3. It would be funny to see The Knight slice Asgore's truck in half.
Click to expand...
I do agree
 
Here's a rough TL;DR on the Green Gaster theory that's been going around. I probably missed some parts but this is a rough outline of it since nobody here knows Russian besides me and some others who idk if are here


True Lab entries were made by both Gaster and Alphys, the ones that start with the capital letters are Gaster's.

Goners are successful amalgamates.

Amalgamates are failed goners because Alphys injected too much DT into the bodies and she 'knew' that something was supposed to happen.

Amalgamates' minds are halfway in reality and halfway in the code as DT is godly power only the player uses.

Gaster injected the world with DT to see what is up and made the dark world, giving life to what is not living.

Somehow messed himself up in the process, is now shattered.

He was Sans and Papyrus' brother cause of the door theory. The green bone painting, the shape colors in Papyrus' puzzles, some other Red > Green > Blue sequences we see in the game suggest he was the green brother. They're RGB. Also menu color, green wires of spamton, green air crackling in Gerson's fight ect add to the idea but that's a bit of a stretch idk.

Gaster is a goner and thus he looks melted, maybe shattered his mind not just across the code but across games.

Eggman and Gaster are enemies as getting an egg doesn't give you the 'no problem' achievement and the aces tell you the gray land in the telescope is nothing but evil.

Gaster is the ROOT of evil. Thorns come from the vines coming from the roots.

In the funni Mike room there's a bomb that looks like the wingdings bomb and has cat ears and pink blue flame. Cipher theory stuff leads to Mike being related to a bomb and maybe blowing up Kris' hand.

US tested a bomb that was called Ivy Mike that nuked a whole island that's why you need a bunker. Flowey having nukes supports that but is probably insane.

To go back a bit, Dess became an amalgamate cause someone injected her with DT, that's why she is the Knight and the Knight is wobbly.

Carol wants to bring her back and needs to achieve a certain part in the prophecy to do so (cursed sister in dragon blazers).

Susie is the dragon in the prophecy that may destroy hometown.

She is supposed to be that but Ralsei swaps Noelle for Susie as the girl in the prophecy, that's why he does everything to prevent her from being violent in the game.

Carol is trying to enforce the prophecy to save Dess but also control it, that's why she finds our vessel and swaps it with Kris (cage with human parts, why would it be with human parts unless it isn't a human).

It's a struggle to try to enforce two different ways of the prophecy and Kris keeps us in check, ruining our deviations in both the good and the weird routes.

If the nuke does land in the end it will lead to the town being green and air crackling (geiger counter) with freedom.

Why nuke it? Hell if I know.

TL;DR Insane theory, some parts could very much be legit, some others are insane but who knows, either way it's a fun take on what's up.
 
Also found another funni LS anti-feat lol
wULxc6o.gif
 
it has been pointed out that Alphys was the one who called Determination what it is and so the theory about separate entries is wrong, but I will say that Alpyhs was probably not behind the Goner maker and its still possible for some of this to work
 
GPR_Shadow said:
Oh yeah, what's make The Player not 1-A or above Cosmology 🤔

From what I see in downgrade session, it's about Chara scaling to The Player and data is just 3D
Click to expand...
That uses outdated standards.

Right now the R>F thing is still insufficiente as the Player has no real transcendence feats to the game, it's why the Player from EarthBound or OFF are not 1-A

Heck there's even this:
vsbattles.com

The Tier 1 is now OFF: The Player downgrade

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/The_Player_(OFF) Low Complex Multiverse level (Exists outside of the world of OFF, and views the world as merely a game, to the point of being able to manipulate its files. Due to R/F transcendence, being ontologically superior to a Low 2-C structure should...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
StrymULTRA said:
That uses outdated standards.

Right now the R>F thing is still insufficiente as the Player has no real transcendence feats to the game, it's why the Player from EarthBound or OFF are not 1-A

Heck there's even this:
vsbattles.com

The Tier 1 is now OFF: The Player downgrade

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/The_Player_(OFF) Low Complex Multiverse level (Exists outside of the world of OFF, and views the world as merely a game, to the point of being able to manipulate its files. Due to R/F transcendence, being ontologically superior to a Low 2-C structure should...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
Click to expand...
That does make me wonder though, beyond viewing a world as fiction, having no anti-feats, and being treated as powerful within the context of the story, what else is required to get 1-A? As far as I knew those are the only real requirements, though I might just be stupid
 
IDK3465 said:
That does make me wonder though, beyond viewing a world as fiction, having no anti-feats, and being treated as powerful within the context of the story, what else is required to get 1-A? As far as I knew those are the only real requirements, though I might just be stupid
Click to expand...
Tbf it is the case, just that the UTDR player lacks the transcendentally stronger than everything in the fictional reality part.
 
IDK3465 said:
That does make me wonder though, beyond viewing a world as fiction, having no anti-feats, and being treated as powerful within the context of the story, what else is required to get 1-A? As far as I knew those are the only real requirements, though I might just be stupid
Click to expand...
There needs to be proof that this transcendence is ontological and qualitative (meaning there is no way for fiction to interact with the player).

Wouldn't you agree that a proper higher dimensional being would fit in all these requirements you cited?
 
GodlyCharmander said:
There needs to be proof that this transcendence is ontological and qualitative (meaning there is no way for fiction to interact with the player).

Wouldn't you agree that a proper higher dimensional being would fit in all these requirements you cited?
Click to expand...
Well, I suppose there is an anti-feat when it comes to full-on transcendence for the UT/DR player since the characters inside the game can interact with the code without any outside help, which is technically a real-world, theoretically "1-A" thing (electronic signals)
I'm pretty sure that's the reason IMSCARED got downgraded a while ago
 
Last edited:
IDK3465 said:
That does make me wonder though, beyond viewing a world as fiction, having no anti-feats, and being treated as powerful within the context of the story, what else is required to get 1-A? As far as I knew those are the only real requirements, though I might just be stupid
Click to expand...
I mean generally R>F transcendence that has no anti-feats and has evidence of being really beyond existence as a whole rather than just surpassing the baseline universe. I think the Player could qualify it if we had more information to our relationship with the game which I doubt, as the player is clearly meant to be us.
 
Tbf I think that the Player in UTDR is a just a bit better than the one in OFF due to them at least scaling to Chara's game ending thanks to Determination shenanigans.

The one of Imscared is +1D right because of genuine portrayal of superiority towards game entities who have full control of the game like White Face, something the UTDR one lacks.
 
Oh yeah I need to do that. I have 2 save files, one is normal route one is Weird Route, gotta go back and take care of that, replaying Ch. 4 should be fun.
 
Solar system level Lancer tomorrow
Any way just a thought, shouldn't Spamtom and Jevil lowkey get City level AP and dura when they are Items since they can whistand the Titan's attacks when they are Defense items and damage Titans as offensive items
 
God_of_perversion said:
Solar system level Lancer tomorrow
Any way just a thought, shouldn't Spamtom and Jevil lowkey get City level AP and dura when they are Items since they can whistand the Titan's attacks when they are Defense items and damage Titans as offensive items
Click to expand...
That would (eventually) lead to Small City level Rudinn with our current chainscaling, so I think it’s best that we don’t scale them to the current top tiers
 
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