Dragon Ball Heroes: A CRT that doesn't even exist

[Mbpoops]

Im lowkey just kinda confused on how they travel to a nonexistent timeline.. using time powers..?

^

Its the same issue i have with BDE1 wov

 

[RanHover60]

If the same level of scrutiny applied to DBS were applied to DBH, the verse would not have even half the hax it currently has. I have taken a look at more pages of the verse, and I genuinely do not understand how some things were accepted.

That’s the case for most verses though.

DBH has the opposite issue of DBS where no one cares enough to scrutinise it nearly as much and we end up with stuff like time = everything and CM1 that wouldn’t fly otherwise. I wouldn’t be surprised if a handful of the more abstract abilities it has turn out to be bunk too. This is an issue a lot of verses outside of Shounen and comic stuff have where staff members aren’t interested or knowledgeable enough to fully engage and become increasingly lenient.

Tangent aside this NEP stuff looks shaky as hell though.

 

[RanHover60]

I’m not implying that supporters from verses like this have any malicious intent btw

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

I have to disagree with this

There is almost no elaboration, nor explanation, nor any properly established mechanism other than
"This place doesn't exist in history." and leave it at that.

And can we reasonably assume that when Frieza dropped that statement, he was aware of things or places mentioned in the manga?

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Yeah, I will have to disagree with this, the opposition has mentioned more than enough counterpoints.

 

[Mr._East_Statement]

… I thought this is a fun and game thread so I ignored this.

Anyway Hecky and Nova already explained, as well as others, I have to disagree the same, the fact that said "history does not exist" REALLY does not going to grant you NEP out of blow, whether you argue flowery or not. Worse that time manipulation still works anyway so eh.

Anyway, this thread is Honkai (flowery language) diffed pretty much.

 

[RanHover60]

Anyway, this thread is Honkai (flowery language) diffed pretty much.

 

[SonGoku_9377]

From what I've read, it seems good.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Yeah, based on what Hecky and other users said, I disagree.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

disagree.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

I agree. It seems the thread is solid and has presented good evidence supporting the original poster’s claims.

 

[Robo432343]

Looks good to me.

 

[Remus1998]

Put me down as disagree

 

[RanHover60]

I agree. It seems the thread is solid and has presented good evidence supporting the original poster’s claims.

I’m assuming NEP 2 in general has to go

 

[Killerdrone123]

Yeah, based on what Hecky and other users said, I disagree.

What do you think about subspace itself qualifying for nep 2 since it's preety much said to lack the very concept of space and time and said to transcend time and in as explained in terminology page time is history which is both existence and non existence and said to transcend them

 

[Robo432343]

What do you think about subspace itself qualifying for nep 2 since it's preety much said to lack the very concept of space and time and said to transcend time and in as explained in terminology page time is history which is both existence and non existence and said to transcend them

but killer sama
how can subspace be nep2 if the hyperbolic time chamber exists inside of it

 

[SuperNova55555]

Icl reading through some other stuff here, everything seems horribly wanked.

What do you think about subspace itself qualifying for nep 2 since it's preety much said to lack the very concept of space and time and said to transcend time and in as explained in terminology page time is history which is both existence and non existence and said to transcend them

Yea, I dunno about this chief. It doesn’t appear like “transcending time” here is being qualified this way. To me it seems that it simply a place wherein time doesn’t pass in the conventional sense, which then allows for instantaneous travel. Like a timestop of sorts.

 

[Killerdrone123]

but killer sama
how can subspace be nep2 if the hyperbolic time chamber exists inside of it

???

Preety sure nothing stops a void from holding dimensions

 

[Killerdrone123]

Yea, I dunno about this chief. It doesn’t appear like “transcending time” here is being qualified this way. To me it seems that it simply a place wherein time doesn’t pass in the conventional sense, which then allows for instantaneous travel. Like a timestop of sorts.

There is a direct statement of subspace lacking concept of space and time i beleive vieth didn't include it the i.t statement further supports this notion

 

[SuperNova55555]

There is a direct statement of subspace lacking concept of space and time i beleive vieth didn't include it the i.t statement further supports this notion

Yea but this isn’t mutually exclusive to my interpretation. You can have both statements refer to the same thing, really.

In fact, a nice reductio of this would that in the sense that if “lack” is used in conjunction or relation with “transcend”—here, particularly in regards to the “concept of space and time”—then you could just start aiming for a Low 1-A rating all things considered. But as far as I’m aware, that doesn’t seem to be anyones goal. Strange.

Could be that it’s maybe not meant to be taken so so literally.

 

[Thanganimator]

Looks good to me.

Bro it's not good anymore

 

[Killerdrone123]

Yea but this isn’t mutually exclusive to my interpretation. You can have both statements refer to the same thing, really.

Again everyone can have different interpretations there is a direct statement of it lacking time and i.t stuff directly proofs there being absence of time on its own,you to prove why this statement doesn't hold in literal sense cause now your entire argument is "i don't feel like it"

In fact, a nice reductio of this would that in the sense that if “lack” is used in conjunction or relation with “transcend”—here, particularly in regards to the “concept of space and time”—then you could just start aiming for a Low 1-A rating all things considered. But as far as I’m aware, that doesn’t seem to be anyones goal. Strange.

Maybe in future who knows there are other supporting stuff for it but again it clearly isn't the goal of this thread

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

then you could just start aiming for a Low 1-A rating all things considered.

Don't give them ideas pls

 

[Robo432343]

Maybe in future who knows there are other supporting stuff for it but again it clearly isn't the goal of this thread

but its weird because if what you're saying is true, then subspace would literally be Low 1-A or 1-A right now and we know thats just wrong...
its similar to how if infinite uni db gets accepted, then the verse would have infinite speed which we know isn't right

 

[Gamin_Yoon23]

Don't give them ideas pls

Could you not make comments like this? This is the second time I’ve seen this comment from you. Do I believe other verses are wanked? Sure, but if one or a group of people want to attempt an upgrade and believe it’s reasonable what we aren’t going to do forbid it. Let people do what they want, you aren’t physically stopping anybody but it comes across as demotivating and even assuming it’s wrong that’s what users and staff are here for. They’ll kindly correct them on their wrong views and the thread will function from there. Stop derailing.

Already expressed my disagreement with this offsite but as for NEP2 subspace and given the statements along with it I think I’m neutral leading towards agreeing. I think myself and others require more input before I have a solidified stance

 

[Killerdrone123]

but its weird because if what you're saying is true, then subspace would literally be Low 1-A or 1-A right now and we know thats just wrong...

This is not the thread for that seriously as I have said let it be for future threads to tackle

 

[Hecky2222]

"i don't feel like it"

^ This type counter got irony diffed so don't joke lad and get what Nova is saying

If you still didn't understand his pretty simple words

Context matters here not random buzzwords dropping and converting them altogether to powerscaling brainrot

And since i am not lazy to read your scans rn

Subspace.

It is a different dimensional world that does not belong to any part of the world, and includes the "Room of Spirit and Time" in the Temple of God and the interdimensional "Sugoroku Space." The concept of time is different in the "Room of Spirit and Time," and a year here corresponds to one day in the outside world. There are no living creatures that inhabit this room.

In the "Sugoroku Space" where Goku wanders into, every action is governed by the rules of Sugoroku. 30,000 consecutive wins will allow him to escape, but if he cheats or loses, he will die. Although no one is supposed to inhabit this space, the space raccoon dogs Sue Goro and Sue Kogoro are trapped there. They cheated and the space collapsed, but Goku saved them and they escaped to the Kaioshin world.

Yes now I can see what Nova meant here, idk what here even tells nonexistent space but sure.

Place outside world with different concept of time = nonexistent place, ok.

 

[Killerdrone123]

^ This type counter got irony diffed so don't joke lad and get what Nova is saying

If you still didn't understand his pretty simple words

Context matters here not random buzzwords dropping and converting them altogether to powerscaling brainrot

And since i am not lazy to read your scans rn



Yes now I can see what Nova meant here, idk what here even tells nonexistent space but sure.

Place outside world with different concept of time = nonexistent place, ok.

We are completely ignoring the second scan i see,also the concept of time thing is refering to htc which literally works in my favour cause if they simply want to say "oh no look subspace have just different concept of time " they would have said so just like they did with HTC while on the other hand they straight up go on saying that it lacks concept of space and time

The first part of imgur was there to prove that htc and sugoroku space are part of subspace

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

Could you not make comments like this? This is the second time I’ve seen this comment from you. Do I believe other verses are wanked? Sure, but if one or a group of people want to attempt an upgrade and believe it’s reasonable what we aren’t going to do forbid it. Let people do what they want, you aren’t physically stopping anybody but it comes across as demotivating and even assuming it’s wrong that’s what users and staff are here for. They’ll kindly correct them on their wrong views and the thread will function from there. Stop derailing.

Why are you crying so loud over nothing.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

I will be real, I am more concerned how some

^ This type counter got irony diffed so don't joke lad and get what Nova is saying

If you still didn't understand his pretty simple words

Context matters here not random buzzwords dropping and converting them altogether to powerscaling brainrot

And since i am not lazy to read your scans rn



Yes now I can see what Nova meant here, idk what here even tells nonexistent space but sure.

Place outside world with different concept of time = nonexistent place, ok.

So wait, we are not only nuking whats being proposed, but also what is already accepted?

 

[Huesito88]

Why are you crying so loud over nothing.

Stop derailing.

 

[Ultimuru]

but killer sama
how can subspace be nep2 if the hyperbolic time chamber exists inside of it

Beyond dimensional nonexistent time chamber duh

 

[Azertyhuuh]

I ask everyone to stay on topic, and please refrain from discussing matters that were already accepted previously here. If you have an issue with something that has already been accepted, you can open a separate thread for that.

 

[Ciel_Trinity439]

Ultimuru makes sense to me.

 

[Hecky2222]

We are completely ignoring the second scan i see,also the concept of time thing is refering to htc which literally works in my favour cause if they simply want to say "oh no look subspace have just different concept of time " they would have said so just like they did with HTC while on the other hand they straight up ho on saying that it lacks concept of space and time

So? How does even correlate to what I said here

Context matters here not random buzzwords dropping and converting them altogether to powerscaling brainrot

I wouldn't really wonder if both scans taken from two different databooks to create coherency issues, so i would ask source of both databooks to check(Otherwise lmao CM level coherency issues)

It doesn't work for your favour, because it can be interpreted as "They lack concept of space-time of normal universe yet have different space-time laws" something fiction does for obvious reasons. It is pretty common thing. But we give NEP to absence of everything. Which I don't see here.

Two scans claim

1. It has different concept of time
2. It it outside of universe so lacks concept of time

Which already contradiction unless you want to merge it doesn't play in your favour rather can be interpreted "Subspace has different nomological law" so lacking normal concept of time is logical here.

So wait, we are not only nuking whats being proposed, but also what is already accepted?

I am js checking on what they are arguing(scans or whatever), idc if they keep Subspace as NEP

This and this not good scans to prove NEP 2 either, they are super vague to argue something(especially databook one so I will leave it to @ExcelsisBerny if she has own interpretation after reading it)

 

[Killerdrone123]

So? How does even correlate to what I said here

I wouldn't really wonder if both scans taken from two different databooks to create coherency issues, so i would ask source of both databooks to check(Otherwise lmao CM level coherency issues)

Both are from Chozenshu 4 so no they are not from different guidebooks

It doesn't work for your favour, because it can be interpreted as "They lack concept of space-time of normal universe yet have different space-time laws" something fiction does for obvious reasons. It is pretty common thing. But we give NEP to absence of everything. Which I don't see here.

The line of it having different concept of time is refering to hyperbolic time chamber not subspace the subspace doesn't have any statement of having different concept of time it's misinterpretation on your part

Two scans claim

1. It has different concept of time
2. It it outside of universe so lacks concept of time

Which already contradiction unless you want to merge it doesn't play in your favour rather can be interpreted "Subspace has different nomological law" so lacking normal concept of time is logical here.

"It is a different dimensional world that does not belong to any part of the world, and includes the "Room of Spirit and Time" in the Temple of God and the interdimensional "Sugoroku Space." The concept of time is different in the "Room of Spirit and Time," and a year here corresponds to one day in the outside world. There are no living creatures that inhabit this room"

It is talking about rosat not subspace the description it says about subspace is that it is a different dimensional world that does not belong to any part of world and it has no statement of having different laws of space time

 

[FinePoint]

Friends, this is a reminder to remain both on-topic and respectful.

@ExcelsisBerny Telling people they're crying over nothing is quite rude for no reason. Please find a more polite way to phrase whatever you're trying to say.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

2. Subspace

Again as per the cosmology page Subspace was accepted as NEP realm. However in the game verse we know that Instant Transmission teleport the user into a space that transcends time, this space is part of the Subspace. So that means Subspace transcends time

Now according to the game terminology, "time" here is actually referring to timeline/history. This was supported by the fact that IT in game verse can also be used to teleport to different points in time

I'm sorry, but how do we know that this specific mention of time of a Guidebook from 2003 uses the terminology of time from Dragon Ball Xenoverse/Heroes, when it came 12 years before the first Xenoverse game and 7 years before the first DBH content? How do we know the author meant by time the all encompassing history yada yada that Chronoa and all Time Patrols use of time if, at that time, none of these concepts were created and most likely not even conceived?

Hell, how do we even treat these spaces as part of a timeline (per OP, the IT realm is part of the subspace, which is contained in one timeline), i.e., of  history if they lack the aspect of history?

Oh, and now that we brought that page up, can we, please, delete the "Logic" section that was rejected to actually qualify per the new standards in a previous CRT made by OP?

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

@ExcelsisBerny Telling people they're crying over nothing is quite rude for no reason. Please find a more polite way to phrase whatever you're trying to say.

They are surrendering themselves to tears over a grievance so insubstantial that it scarcely deserves the dignity of being named

 

[FinePoint]

They are surrendering themselves to tears over a grievance so insubstantial that it scarcely deserves the dignity of being named

Well, that is at least funny. I think the crying part is what's important, though.

If you had just said they're spending too much thought on something that you don't think is important, that would've been fine.