UNDERTALE/DELTARUNE [shiny new] DISCUSSION THEAD

[Axorandom0]

Bold of you to assume I'd reveal my actual opinions after what happened last time.

That’s a little paranoid don’t you think

 

[Axorandom0]

Anyways I’m ambivalent towards everything, make the cosmology 1-B

 

[Echidnacodefan2512]

Dosent sound unrealistic.

Anyways I’m ambivalent towards everything, make the cosmology 1-B

 

[AyOgUyS]

There kinda one tho due player controling two sets uncountable infinites timelines (player town and the save file that probally arent our due the contract at the beginning tho)

how does the player controlling a 5D cosmology (I disagree with it being 5d but lets roll with it) means the player is 6d?

 

[AyOgUyS]

Dosent sound unrealistic.

gng even low 1-c is iffy you're pushing for 1-b?!?!?!

 

[Echidnacodefan2512]

how does the player controlling a 5D cosmology (I disagree with it being 5d but lets roll with it) means the player is 6d?

Because it technically creating a item through uncountable wins thus the universe reconise the item as real

If you didnt defeat that boss you cant pick up the item.

Like,.come on this basically the easily a low 1c argument

While the save system is linked to gaster which became real.

 

[Echidnacodefan2512]

I mean gaster became real due the fact he outside time

 

[AyOgUyS]

Because it technically creating a item through uncountable wins thus the universe reconise the item as real

I am 99% certain no items are created in UT by winning

If you didnt defeat that boss you cant pick up the item.

?????????

Like,.come on this basically the easily a low 1c argument

how?

While the save system is linked to gaster which became real.

u and I both know using gaster for anything is a terrible argument

 

[Axorandom0]

Dosent sound unrealistic.

I was joking by being purposefully unrealistic—

 

[God_of_perversion]

That statement should be debunked by time existing and the statement that the world was ending. Best case scenerio Frisk restores the timeline immediately after the hypergoner destroys it.

Time still being able to be counted even after the timeline was destroyed is one of the main points for hypertime existing.
There also multiple instances that show that the world refers to the entire Undertale world which obviously contains many timelines.
Also again it wasn't Frisk who restored everything

In order for a 4D time structure to end suddenly, you need +1 time dimension. This is the justification used by the wiki to upgrade Chara slash to L1-C. But now Chara's slash suddenly destroys a 5D structure. In order for a 5D time structure to end suddenly, you need +1 time dimension. By upgrading Chara, you lose the justification that upgrades them to begin with. The evidence for 5D now becomes evidence for 6D. If you upgrade Chara slash to 6D, you get evidence for 7D, etc. This mess happens because we initially scaled Chara to 4D, so Chara should not be 4D.

Bro wth are you even doing. Do you have any clue at all about what dimensions and dimensional scaling are?

No UT is at least 4D.
Destroying a timeline = 4D feat
Destroying a world = 3D feat (THE WORLD IS THE PRESENT, NOT THE ENTIRE COSMOLOGY)

Prove that the world is "present" or whatever that means

Doesn't matter. For Flowey's statement to work you have to argue that Chara was removed across the entire cosmology, and any timeline/hypertimeline. This isn't what the statement implies, rather Chara isn't in the world because the world is the present.

What are you even talking about.
1:Chara DID get her body and soul killed in every timeline. Timelines only began to be reseted after Flowey was born and Flowey could only reset to the start of the game
2:what does "the world is present" even mean

In context of UT, our timeline is 4D, but our world is 3D because it is the present. Our present changes over time, but our timeline should not. Hypertimeline is a potential explanation for this but I don't think it's a good one given the other quote I mentioned. Its more believeable to downgrade a verse to 3D rather than upgrade it with a hypertimeline.

Bro what does any of this even mean

 

[Echidnacodefan2512]

I am 99% certain no items are created in UT by winning

?????????

how?

u and I both know using gaster for anything is a terrible argument

1 :
I mean not undertale but deltarune, what undertale have is just last dream that could work but it isnt what i saying

2 :
if you defead a enemy yet you dont have them in your inventory , you can literally pulled it out from player town you know OUR town...The fact it save a uncountable virable only whem you defeat them seems to be associated with the fact it item from another timeline (or in this case multiple ones)

3 :
like if gaster exist across time and space and isnt affect by our time control and actually counting how much we delete or anything we do in files and can literally stop the fight with the knight before we even die ? You think i wouldnt belive they are outside time as whole?

 

[Echidnacodefan2512]

I was joking by being purposefully unrealistic—

Kinda knew that but i dont belive we are that far if it true

 

[RSM9976]

There also multiple instances that show that the world refers to the entire Undertale world which obviously contains many timelines.

Proof?

Also again it wasn't Frisk who restored everything

Hypergoner destroys timeline > Frisk restores timeline > Asriel boss switches to phase 2 > world begins to end > Asriel loses and restores everything

This is how I interpret the fight.

2:what does "the world is present" even mean

When the characters in game say "The world" it does not mean the entire universe. Destroying "the world" is not 4D/5D. Destroying "the world" means destroying the present-day, the world right now, a 3D slice of a 4D universe. When the characters say "the world" they are not referring to past or future, which is why its 3D. I think you might be using a translator so I'm trying my best to explain it.

1:Chara DID get her body and soul killed in every timeline. Timelines only began to be reseted after Flowey was born and Flowey could only reset to the start of the game

If Chara is removed from "the world" and "the world" is 4D or higher then they are also killed in the past and future, including past versions of the timeline. If this is true then Chara should have never existed. This is the issue, so "the world" has to be 3D.

 

[God_of_perversion]

Can't even be bothered to argue anymore but i still have to correct this

If Chara is removed from "the world" and "the world" is 4D or higher then they are also killed in the past and future, including past versions of the timeline. If this is true then Chara should have never existed. This is the issue, so the "world" has to be 3d

Bro,do you know what 4d means?
Why the **** does a universe being 4d (just like ours) have anything to do with mass timeline erasure. Do you have any knowledge about what dimensions are
Also why do you think this is the reason chara has NEP on her profile

 

[RSM9976]

Can't even be bothered to argue anymore but i still have to correct this

Bro,do you know what 4d means?
Why the **** does a universe being 4d (just like ours) have anything to do with mass timeline erasure. Do you have any knowledge about what dimensions are
Also why do you think this is the reason chara has NEP on her profile

I think you are misunderstanding so let me try to lay it out to you.
An Undertale Universe: L2-C (One timeline, just like ours)
The Undertale Multiverse: At least 2-B (Every timeline)
An Undertale "World": H3-A (This does not include past or future. This term is frequently used by the characters in the game. This is what Chara destroys. People think this is the same as the previous two options, which I'm arguing against.)

 

[LittleGuy99]

Look

Superstar Showdown Blogs: Caine vs Tenna(The Amazing Digital Circus vs Deltarune)

superstarshowdownblog.blogspot.com

 

[RinneItachi]

 

[RinneItachi]

I can't wait to see Gaster's twerking animation in Chapter 5's Secret Boss background (the dead pixels in main boss fights are just that but scaled down to a ridiculously small size).

 

[StrymULTRA]

In order for a 4D time structure to end suddenly, you need +1 time dimension. This is the justification used by the wiki to upgrade Chara slash to L1-C.

Huh... no. You're misinterpreting the blog lol.

 

[StrymULTRA]

If Chara is removed from "the world" and "the world" is 4D or higher then they are also killed in the past and future, including past versions of the timeline. If this is true then Chara should have never existed. This is the issue, so "the world" has to be 3D.

How to debunk every Tier 2/1 character btw. Dragon Ball Super's 3-A at best now, let's go home now.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Once this calc is approved, I am dropping CRT:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Qurbonboev/Knight_Knight_summons_Morning_Stars

 

[Echidnacodefan2512]

Soo....do you guys think TERUTERUBOUZU will be important now ?

 

[ScoutManeater]

Proof?


Hypergoner destroys timeline > Frisk restores timeline > Asriel boss switches to phase 2 > world begins to end > Asriel loses and restores everything

This is how I interpret the fight.


When the characters in game say "The world" it does not mean the entire universe. Destroying "the world" is not 4D/5D. Destroying "the world" means destroying the present-day, the world right now, a 3D slice of a 4D universe. When the characters say "the world" they are not referring to past or future, which is why its 3D. I think you might be using a translator so I'm trying my best to explain it.

If Chara is removed from "the world" and "the world" is 4D or higher then they are also killed in the past and future, including past versions of the timeline. If this is true then Chara should have never existed. This is the issue, so "the world" has to be 3D.

Not only is this proof litreally in the blog Styrm made but all the arguements are litreally right there.

This just has weird scaling ive genuinely never seen and why?? Like Strym said using this logic this litreally downscales every Tier 2-1 character with this logic

When Chara (when revived reincarnated) says destroying the world she litreally made it nothing there was an attempt at deleting the game theres a folder (if im not wrong) that says nothingness.

Saying the world means present would mean Asriel who destroyed the timeline gave up on destroying "the present" so he could control "the present" even though this present is already destroyed because the timeline is gone this using your words this dosent make sense

 

[AyOgUyS]

When the characters in game say "The world" it does not mean the entire universe. Destroying "the world" is not 4D/5D. Destroying "the world" means destroying the present-day, the world right now, a 3D slice of a 4D universe. When the characters say "the world" they are not referring to past or future, which is why its 3D. I think you might be using a translator so I'm trying my best to explain it.

Omega Flowey destroys SAVE Files which are accepted as being timelines and Hyperdeath Asriel is infinitely stronger than Omega Flowey

If Chara is removed from "the world" and "the world" is 4D or higher then they are also killed in the past and future, including past versions of the timeline. If this is true then Chara should have never existed. This is the issue, so "the world" has to be 3D.

If a character survives the destruction of a timeline why wouldn't that simply be a feat of Acausality for them? Also Chara has NEP (I think) and their slash doesn't have NEP interaction so they literally cannot even interact with themself in the first place.

 

[AyOgUyS]

Soo....do you guys think TERUTERUBOUZU will be important now ?

Huh

 

[StrymULTRA]

Not only is this proof litreally in the blog Styrm made but all the arguements are litreally right there.

This just has weird scaling ive genuinely never seen and why?? Like Strym said using this logic this litreally downscales every Tier 2-1 character with this logic

When Chara (when revived reincarnated) says destroying the world she litreally made it nothing there was an attempt at deleting the game theres a folder (if im not wrong) that says nothingness.

Saying the world means present would mean Asriel who destroyed the timeline gave up on destroying "the present" so he could control "the present" even though this present is already destroyed because the timeline is gone this using your words this dosent make sense

You're still saying that a character cannot destroy space-time on a Tier 1/2 scale because "they'd have never been existed in the first place" when fiction barely takes in account such thing in the first place.

Plus Chara has NEP on Space-Time aspect anyway so this convo is moot anyways lol.

 

[StrymULTRA]

If a character survives the destruction of a timeline why wouldn't that simply be a feat of Acausality for them? Also Chara has NEP (I think) and their slash doesn't have NEP interaction so they literally cannot even interact with themself in the first place.

Saying that a NEP character cannot interact with other NEP people is like saying that corporeal beings cannot interact with other ones.

Plus nothing said that Chara aimed the knife at themselves lol.

 

[AyOgUyS]

Saying that a NEP character cannot interact with other NEP people is like saying that corporeal beings cannot interact with other ones.

NEP and standard corporeality are fundamentally different physiologies, I don't think this example really works, we don't give all characters with AE NPI by default for example, the character still has to show it.

Plus nothing said that Chara aimed the knife at themselves lol.

Well the slash has what Low 1-C range rn? Logically Chara should've been caught in the range of the attack.

 

[StrymULTRA]

NEP and standard corporeality are fundamentally different physiologies, I don't think this example really works, we don't give all characters with AE NPI by default for example, the character still has to show it.

We do, actually. That's how VS Threads always worked.

Well the slash has what Low 1-C range rn? Logically Chara should've been caught in the range of the attack.

Yeah but:

1. It's not necessary to involve yourself.
2. Chara still has resistance from Frisk who survived that due to same DT source

So yours are non-issues no matter where you look.

 

[AyOgUyS]

We do, actually. That's how VS Threads always worked.

Genuinely curious here, since when have we assumed characters with unorthodox physiologies like NEP and AE can interact with other characters with similar physiologies by default even without feats? I don't remember anything like that being stated on the NPI page.

Yeah but:

1. It's not necessary to involve yourself.

I'm not sure I understand what this means.

1. Chara still has resistance from Frisk who survived that due to same DT source

I was never denying Chara has resistance to EE.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Genuinely curious here, since when have we assumed characters with unorthodox physiologies like NEP and AE can interact with other characters with similar physiologies by default even without feats? I don't remember anything like that being stated on the NPI page.

It's more so implied because you're essentially arguing that being non corporeal means that you cannot interact with yourself, especially when fiction does portray beings with some kind of "physicality" most of the time even if they're non-corporeal to anyone else.

Idk make a Q&A about it, I don't think this is the place.

I'm not sure I understand what this means.

Zeno was about to get his own EE resistance removed if it wasn't clarified that he invested in his own blast by visuals, Chara doesn't have that evidence methinks.

 

[AyOgUyS]

It's more so implied because you're essentially arguing that being non corporeal means that you cannot interact with yourself, especially when fiction does portray beings with some kind of "physicality" most of the time even if they're non-corporeal to anyone else.

Idk make a Q&A about it, I don't think this is the place.

fair enough

Zeno was about to get his own EE resistance removed if it wasn't clarified that he invested in his own blast by visuals, Chara doesn't have that evidence methinks.

that thread was also rejected by the majority of the staff there...

 

[StrymULTRA]

that thread was also rejected by the majority of the staff there...

The thread was a DOWNGRADE to remove the idea of Zeno inflicting to himself the damage, my argument was this:

Zeno was about to get his own EE resistance removed if it wasn't clarified that he invested in his own blast by visuals, Chara doesn't have that evidence methinks.

 

[AyOgUyS]

The thread was a DOWNGRADE to remove the idea of Zeno inflicting to himself the damage

Yes? I never argued against that.

snippity snippy snip

hm oki

 

[StrymULTRA]

fair enough

Imma be fr idk what kind of images you're trying to pass here, but I cannot see anything.

 

[AyOgUyS]

Imma be fr idk what kind of images you're trying to pass here, but I cannot see anything.

wait for real? uh fack lemme try again

 

[StrymULTRA]

wait for real? uh fack lemme try again

Yeah now it works, looks like whatever image hosting site you use is blocked in italy, managed to see it now thanks to a VPN.

 

[AyOgUyS]

Yeah now it works, looks like whatever image hosting site you use is blocked in italy, managed to see it now thanks to a VPN.

man I hate this forum's image function 99% of image hosters js don't work

 

[RSM9976]

Saying the world means present would mean Asriel who destroyed the timeline gave up on destroying "the present" so he could control "the present" even though this present is already destroyed because the timeline is gone this using your words this dosent make sense

It also makes no sense for the save file to record time after the timeline was erased. Either Frisk restored the timeline immediately after hyper goner, or the hyper goner never destroyed the timeline to begin with. I dont see an issue with the latter given we've dismissed similar hyperboles before. A hypertimeline should have been considered last.

Omega Flowey destroys SAVE Files which are accepted as being timelines and Hyperdeath Asriel is infinitely stronger than Omega Flowey

Omega flowey is another issue. Even if we accept a timeline destruction feat, it should be considered environmental destruction as he still needs Frisk's soul to kill everyone. (Implying everyone is still alive after timeline destruction) L2-C Asriel is fine though.

You're still saying that a character cannot destroy space-time on a Tier 1/2 scale because "they'd have never been existed in the first place" when fiction barely takes in account such thing in the first place.

I am not referencing Chara's slash. I am referring to this statement regarding Chara's death. Chara not being in the world only makes sense if the world was the present. A 4D/5D world implies that Chara was removed from the past and future, which is completely unfounded.

 

[Randomuser3412]

I am not referencing Chara's slash. I am referring to this statement regarding Chara's death. Chara not being in the world only makes sense if the world was the present. A 4D/5D world implies that Chara was removed from the past and future, which is completely unfounded.

Why would Flowey be talking about a past part of the world he can't access? Is there a lore reason? Is he stupid?