UNDERTALE/DELTARUNE [shiny new] DISCUSSION THEAD

[GodlyCharmander]

is this you?

Honestly? Yeah. Because the counterarguments were not the best and ignored so much evidence that it's impossible for me to see why that would dismantle the entirety of the argument.

 

[Moon_Crasher]

I hope my calcs get evaluated soon, it'd be nice to have better basis for Frisk's 137 cm height.

 

[Randomuser3412]

Mods only showing up when opposition responds and not waiting for a rebuttal. It's honestly bleak.

Bleak Barrens

 

[Metalballrun]

Gonna be real, the primary reason I don't like FTL Deltarune is because there's an exact one calc of a feat that other characters are supposed to scale to, and multitudes of other calcs of direct feats in Supersonic to High Hypersonic range.

This is endemic to the wiki itself though. Multiple verses can have more consistent speed showings of a lower tier but if you get one speed calc passed by CGMs it can override everything else because the wiki do tend to favor higher numbers.

It's same principle where if a verse has exact two valid speed calcs, one MHS and other FTL, you're free to just choose the latter on the principle that it's higher.

That's just my two cents though. I could be wrong and I won't fault powerscalers from being motivated by [[BIG NUMBERS]]... mostly.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Gonna be real, the primary reason I don't like FTL Deltarune is because there's an exact one calc of a feat that other characters are supposed to scale to, and multitudes of other calcs of direct feats in Supersonic to High Hypersonic range.

They don't even acknowledge the outlier nature of FTL, they don't care.

 

[IDK3465]

Gonna be real, the primary reason I don't like FTL Deltarune is because there's an exact one calc of a feat that other characters are supposed to scale to, and multitudes of other calcs of direct feats in Supersonic to High Hypersonic range.

This is endemic to the wiki itself though. Multiple verses can have more consistent speed showings of a lower tier but if you get one speed calc passed by CGMs it can override everything else because the wiki do tend to favor higher numbers.

It's same principle where if a verse has exact two valid speed calcs, one MHS and other FTL, you're free to just choose the latter on the principle that it's higher.

That's just my two cents though. I could be wrong and I won't fault powerscalers from being motivated by [[BIG NUMBERS]]... mostly.

Yeah, I'm in the same boat pretty much, it's just weird cause we do TECHNICALLY have 3 Rel to FTL feats, but they're so high compared to everything else, it still feels wrong even if it follows the wiki's rules

Idk man, I've always felt that somewhere in the Hypersonic range made more sense, but since I don't have any valid proof against FTL beyond pure vibes, I just kinda need to hold it to myself and let it exist ig

 

[Qurbonboev]

Gonna be real, the primary reason I don't like FTL Deltarune is because there's an exact one calc of a feat that other characters are supposed to scale to, and multitudes of other calcs of direct feats in Supersonic to High Hypersonic range.

They don't even acknowledge the outlier nature of FTL, they don't care.

Technically its outliery nature was acknowledged. But it was ruled out due to verse having 2 Rel and one FTL feats, which usually considered enough to be considered consistent on this site. Zapper and Jackenstein feats would have been outliers without support of each other.

Regardless, you obviously can have different standards on this matter than site, and maintaining that hypersonic speeds for the verse is far more consistent is valid take

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Technically its outliery nature was acknowledged. But it was ruled out due to verse having 2 Rel and one FTL feats, which usually considered enough to be considered consistent on this site. Zapper and Jackenstein feats would have been outliers without support of each other.

Regardless, you obviously can have different standards on this matter than site, and maintaining that hypersonic speeds for the verse is far more consistent is valid take

This is literally quantity vs quality.

The Sound of Justice anti-feat is actually so much more damming than these battle feats.

 

[Qurbonboev]

This is literally quantity vs quality.

The Sound of Justice anti-feat is actually so much more damming than these battle feats.

You are talking as if Susie actually got hit by it. She dodged all attacks. One time she slipped up, presenting SoJ opportunity to hit her, and even in that moment Kris came to block it before SoJ made swing

 

[GodlyCharmander]

You are talking as if Susie actually got hit by it. She dodged attacks, besides one time she slipped up, and even in that moment Kris came to block it before SoJ made swing

Sound of Justice was believed to be Gerson even after the boss fight, Qur. The statue was narratively relevant in speed scaling. We also see Susie's movement relative to the hammer.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Sound of Justice was believed to be Gerson even after the boss fight, Qur

But SoJ isn't Gerson, it's statue of the Gerson, not the old man.

The statue was narratively relevant in speed scaling.

Nobody argues. It just narrative presents fight as "inferior enemy that uses darkness(thing that makes your perception and your effective speed lower) to make ambush attacks to beat superior enemy". Kris stopped it swing without flinching, and throw it back with ease. Ralsei(for god sake) oneshotted it.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

But SoJ isn't Gerson

...???
Yeah?
How does that change the fact Susie believed it was him despite having fought him before, meaning the statue's speed cannot be a whole dimension below Gerson.

But SoJ isn't Gerson, it's statue of the Gerson, not the old man.


Nobody argues. It just narrative presents fight as "inferior enemy that uses darkness(thing that makes your perception and your effective speed lower) to make ambush attacks to beat superior enemy". Kris stopped it swing without flinching, and throw it back with ease. Ralsei(for god sake) oneshotted it.

They have echolocation, the darkness is meaningless.

 

[Qurbonboev]

They have echolocation, the darkness is meaningless

It ain't gonna help against faster than sound attack.

How does that change the fact Susie believed it was him despite having fought him before, meaning the statue's speed cannot be a whole dimension below Gerson.

So "Susie would have stopped believing that SoJ was Statue if it was slower than Gerson". Susie knows that Statue is slowe than Gerson , since it can't blitz her unlike Gerson. So by your logic she would have already intuited that SoJ isn't Gerson

 

[GodlyCharmander]

It ain't gonna help against faster than sound attack.

It literally did.

So "Susie would have stopped believing that SoJ was Statue if it was slower than Gerson". Susie knows that Statue is slowe than Gerson , since it can't blitz her unlike Gerson. So by your logic she would have already intuited that SoJ isn't Gerson

She literally believes its him until the end of the fight. If he was "three orders of magnitude" slower than Gerson, Susie would've pointed it out

 

[Qurbonboev]

It literally did.

If it did, it's not actually echolocation

She literally believes its him until the end of the fight. If he was "three orders of magnitude" slower than Gerson, Susie would've pointed it out

She already knows that Statue is perception blitz level slower than Gerson. And yet she doesn't stop believing this

 

[GodlyCharmander]

If it did, it's not actually echolocation

I literally don't care what it is.

She already knows that Statue is perception blitz level slower than Gerson. And yet she doesn't stop believing this

Gerson's regular attacks are relative to her, it's the only reason she can dodge it. If she believes its Gerson, it's because it posed a challenge. You can literally die in this fight.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Gerson's regular attacks are relative to her, it's the only reason she can dodge it. If she believes its Gerson, it's because it posed a challenge

She thought SoJ is a Gerson before fight starts

You can literally die in this fight.

Non argument in RPGs. You can always die in fights even against even massively weaker enemies.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

She thought SoJ is a Gerson before fight starts

And nothing in the fight contradicted that belief, which is literally the point.

The way you're desperately grasping at straws to deny this contradiction is honestly just frustrating, I'm not talking about this anymore.

Non argument in RPGs. You can always die in fights even against even massively weaker enemies.

You take significant damage. SOJ can dodge your attacks and you literally can't attack it.

 

[Echidnacodefan2512]

She thought SoJ is a Gerson before fight starts


Non argument in RPGs. You can always die in fights even against even massively weaker enemies.

She thought SoJ is a Gerson before fight starts


Non argument in RPGs. You can always die in fights even against even massively weaker enemies.

You both need see this video

 

[Qurbonboev]

And nothing in the fight contradicted that belief, which is literally the point.

Other than SoJ being blitz level slower than Gerson, you wanted to add, but forgot for some reason

The way you're desperately grasping at straws to deny this contradiction is honestly just frustrating, I'm not talking about this anymore.

Ok

Gerson's regular attacks are relative to her,

Gerson regular attacks often utilise him being blitz level faster

 

[Qurbonboev]

Technically its outliery nature was acknowledged. But it was ruled out due to verse having 2 Rel and one FTL feats, which usually considered enough to be considered consistent on this site. Zapper and Jackenstein feats would have been outliers without support of each other.

Regardless, you obviously can have different standards on this matter than site, and maintaining that hypersonic speeds for the verse is far more consistent is valid take

Damn, this accidentally reminded me how I personally scale Deltarune

 

[Echidnacodefan2512]

i am a offender ?

 

[DaReaperMan]

i am a offender ?

Yes.

 

[Echidnacodefan2512]

Ok

Yes.

 

[Echidnacodefan2512]

Soo how i apologize chamander?

 

[Arceus0x]

Soo how i apologize chamander?

you tell them 100 fun facts about your favorite series in individual messages

 

[Edutyn]

SOJ can dodge your attacks and you literally can't attack it.

I don't want to get involved in this whole debate, but isn't that because the room was completely dark? Like, if they can't see where the statue is, their attacks are obviously going to miss. I could be wrong too

 

[Edutyn]

Also, i noticed how the soundwaves produced by the statue mid air seems to be different to this ones make in the ground

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Another 24 hour break. If the staff doesn't change their votes, they can close the CRT and consider me done with this verse.

When Chapter 5 comes around and Kris is shown being a building level AP merchant with hypersonic speeds again,

I don't want to get involved in this whole debate, but isn't that because the room was completely dark? Like, if they can't see where the statue is, their attacks are obviously going to miss. I could be wrong too

The statue also dodges the attacks from the Fun Gang casually.

Either way, they're relative.

 

[Randomuser3412]

Titans explicitly take multiple fountains to create. And the Knight did use 5 blades. Not claiming anything for sure here, but the idea the Titan is multiple fountains in one is pretty cool

 

[Echidnacodefan2512]

None of that is meeting the requirements spelled out in both pages:

• In order to apply to a character's capacity to harm other characters, that is their usual Attack Potency, their Creation has to be connected to their other abilities. Often that is due to a common energy system, in which the same energy used for creation is used for attacks. For example, it can be reasoned that a mage which expends mana from its energy pool to make a city and then channels a similar or greater amount of mana into another attack can scale to its creation feat. However a character who can create objects without other ways of harming their opponents by using an equal amount of energy from their energy pool wouldn't be able to harness that power to hurt another character, and would fall under a light form of Environmental Destruction.
• Requirement 4: Prove that the power of the character's stabilization consistently scales to their regular statistics, similar to our standards for creation feats

Nothing you provided shows evidence that it meets the creation AP justifications. You have to be able to show that their attacks use or consume more energy than it takes to stabilize the realm for this to be AP useable.

What we do ??

 

[AyOgUyS]

What we do ??

Nothing because anybody scaling to creation of Dark Worlds isn't valid whatsoever

 

[Kellex]

What we do ??

No idea, but don't try quote their text like this cause it's going to bring them here lol.

 

[LittleGuy99]

Nothing because anybody scaling to creation of Dark Worlds isn't valid whatsoever

 

[IDK3465]

can't we like... estimate the mass of the dark world and use that for the Titan's PE, or am I stupid?

 

[AyOgUyS]

Tier 0 Tf Frisk soon

 

[Qawsedf234]

No idea, but don't try quote their text like this cause it's going to bring them here lol.

Its true

 

[Arceus0x]

Its true

 

[Randomuser3412]

Titans explicitly take multiple fountains to create. And the Knight did use 5 blades. Not claiming anything for sure here, but the idea the Titan is multiple fountains in one is pretty cool

Technically, there's nothing to definitively say the Knight DID make 5 fountains in that moment, but they also didn't immediately cause the Roaring, so Ralsei's statement about 1 fountain more than the two that were already up (Chapter 2) being enough to cause the Roaring isn't a good counterargument, because the Knight did make at least one. Maybe the Roaring just takes some time after there's already enough fountains

 

[Echidnacodefan2512]

can't we like... estimate the mass of the dark world and use that for the Titan's PE, or am I stupid?

Try calculate using water since if remenber that the sound