Terraria Discussion thread #2: Journey's end

[Arkhal1s4]

I think "multi-galaxy level, possibly universe level" works, so everything post-golem reaches that, it should be pretty easy to apply this crossverse scaling considering that the terraria devs themselves even went out of their way to make the dryad shimmer variant the same character from DD2.

Anyways, im now wondering if theres any other super good LS feat aside from platinum stuff, i was gonna argue for universal, possibly infinite LS with bottomless buckets since i have decent proof of them being like very big instead of self-replenishing (this would only upgrade LS though since universal AP this early into the game was an outlier)
Ive tried arguing that the bricks/stones from the solar/nebula fragments could be an LS upgrade but it got dismissed because "copper pickaxe mines it"

Yeah, the Dryad actually acknowledges having just went to DD2 in her dialogue only after you beat the tier 1 post-Eater of Worlds Old One's Army. So, not only is it canonical, but it only happens post EoW, so thankfully there's no chainscaling problems with the Eye of Cthulhu. I made a point about it being possibly post-mech because of the trailer having Ogre, but the trailer is most likely non-canon, so her in-game dialogue takes precedence over it.

The LS being dismissed because of the copper pickaxe mining it is strange, since a copper pickaxe can mine luminite but luminite based armor/weapons aren't downgraded to pre-boss levels because of it, it clearly is only mineable because of the Champion's own strength as weapons/tools are indestructible in Terraria due to them having no durability.

 

[Skarfz]

it clearly is only mineable because of the Champion's own strength as weapons/tools are indestructible in Terraria due to them having no durability.

The other bricks from ores really arent minable with copper pickaxe (chlorophyte bricks, mythril, cobalt etc) so the fragment and luminite blocks being breakable by copper stuff is just another game mechanics.
Crafting in this game is also straight up transmutation so the nebula fragment going from pure energy to a physical block is probably gonna give some really high LS, energy can become weight after all.

 

[Arkhal1s4]

The other bricks from ores really arent minable with copper pickaxe (chlorophyte bricks, mythril, cobalt etc) so the fragment and luminite blocks being breakable by copper stuff is just another game mechanics.
Crafting in this game is also straight up transmutation so the nebula fragment going from pure energy to a physical block is probably gonna give some really high LS, energy can become weight after all.

If the crossverse scaling can get accepted and is supported by other possibly galaxy and higher arguments like the fragment descriptions and the many statements about Moon Lord, having really high LS from the fragment blocks wouldn't be an outlier at all. I really don't see any reason it can't get accepted if one isn't pedantic about them being mineable by any pickaxe as it is clearly a game mechanic.

Using that same logic, a copper pickaxe being able to mine gold and platinum means that they aren't as heavy as their IRL counterparts. A copper pickaxe can mine martian conduit plating and spooky wood, so a player with a copper pickaxe scales to the Post-Golem Martian Saucers and the Pumpkin Moon enemies. A copper pickaxe mining luminite that is used for making luminite arrows would mean that it can break a material capable of damaging and killing Moon Lord, so a player with the copper pickaxe scales to endgame. Block durability is just a game mechanic included for balancing.

 

[Lou_change]

fragment descriptions

Solar Fragment doesn't contribute a value to it and the energy of a galaxy in this specific context was previously discussed and concluded to be like 5-A based on the radiant energy produced by every star in the galaxy even if we tried going with the mass energy equivalent of a galaxy it wouldn't work out like that.

having really high LS from the fragment blocks wouldn't be an outlier at all

Okay accepting that it is literally energy mass conversion and you get 5 nebula fragment blocks per fragment (the stones wouldn't really matter) I got 2.13072485e+21 kilograms which is z class using radiant energy.

Martian Saucers

You somehow chose to specifically go with one of the four Martian Maddness enemies that doesn't drop

A copper pickaxe mining luminite that is used for making luminite arrows would mean that it can break a material capable of damaging and killing Moon Lord

Luminite can only be mind as Luminite, Luminite Bars, and Luminite Brick variants. Luminite Bricks seem to be mostly stone, Luminite Bars as a block is just a stack of bars with nothing implied to be holding them together, Luminite itself needs to refined before it can be used to make arrows also said arrows break.

it clearly is only mineable because of the Champion's own strength as weapons/tools are indestructible in Terraria due to them having no durability.

You changed your thoughts on this to instead just being game mechanics, right? I don't have to explain why this would be wrong.

The other bricks from ores really arent minable with copper pickaxe

I don't think that's actually how that works.

Crafting in this game is also straight up transmutation so the nebula fragment going from pure energy to a physical block is probably gonna give some really high LS, energy can become weight after all.

That is a bold claim without elaboration.

 

[Skarfz]

That is a bold claim without elaboration

Every transmutation crafting ive found:
The fragments disappears, becoming a pure block, crafting recipes with souls, bottomless water bucket becoming a shimmer bucket with 10 luminite, 100 of a coin becomes another coin (example: silver to gold), endless ammos becoming infinite with a crafting recipe of 9999 arrows, and probably more, or is this not what you meant by bold claim?

I don't think that's actually how that works.

"Not how that works"
Doesnt elaborate
Also it is how it works unless you're telling me luminite is supposed to be weaker than literally any other ore brick, the hellstone bricks are made from hellstone ore yet they are breakable by literally any pickaxe, that doesnt mean hellstone is weak.
Edit: Kinda swapped the responses but i think youll get the point

 

[Lou_change]

The fragments disappears

?

becoming a pure block,

? I don't think they do that and that's specifically the ancient manipulator

crafting recipes with souls

Souls are weird and definitely supernatural they should not set the standard

"Not how that works"
Doesnt elaborate
Also it is how it works unless you're telling me luminite is supposed to be weaker than literally any other ore brick, the hellstone bricks are made from hellstone ore yet they are breakable by literally any pickaxe, that doesnt mean hellstone is weak.
Edit: Kinda swapped the responses but i think youll get the point

No bricks have the properties you're claiming all can easily be broken.

bottomless water bucket becoming a shimmer bucket with 10 luminite

Ancient manipulator

100 of a coin becomes another coin

Arguably a property of coins wouldn't be the only time they act in ways different to most items.

endless ammos becoming infinite with a crafting recipe of 9999 arrows

Crystal Ball

Anyway I think I misinterpreted the statement it sounded all encompassing but it seems you just seem to mean some crafting is transmutation.

 

[Arkhal1s4]

Solar Fragment doesn't contribute a value to it and the energy of a galaxy in this specific context was previously discussed and concluded to be like 5-A based on the radiant energy produced by every star in the galaxy even if we tried going with the mass energy equivalent of a galaxy it wouldn't work out like that.

I never argued that it would be galaxy level LS, I'm arguing that it should have high LS potential as Skarfz said, I didn't touch on specific values.

Okay accepting that it is literally energy mass conversion and you get 5 nebula fragment blocks per fragment (the stones wouldn't really matter) I got 2.13072485e+21 kilograms which is z class using radiant energy.

Sure! There's other items that have way more nebula fragments in their recipe though. Nebula dye has 10 fragments in each bottle and is crafted in a dye vat and not in an ancient manipulator, so I don't see how it wouldn't keep its weight as 10 fragments containing that amount of energy get turned into a physical dye that has mass (that can also be painted on in every armor, accessory, mount and pet).

You somehow chose to specifically go with one of the four Martian Maddness enemies that doesn't drop

I forgor. The point still stands.

Luminite can only be mind as Luminite, Luminite Bars, and Luminite Brick variants. Luminite Bricks seem to be mostly stone, Luminite Bars as a block is just a stack of bars with nothing implied to be holding them together, Luminite itself needs to refined before it can be used to make arrows also said arrows break.

How does that contradict the fact an arrow or a bullet made out of just luminite can damage and kill the Moon Lord? It's literally a post Moon-Lord resource. Logically, that means the luminite material/ore needs to scale to Moon Lord's durability, so a copper pickaxe mining that material means the copper pickaxe can break something that scales to Moon Lord's durability. With that logic, a pre-boss player scales to Moon Lord by having a copper pickaxe. That's why I'm arguing block durability should not be scaled and cannot be used as an argument against nebula fragment blocks just because they can be mined by a copper pickaxe. Block durability/pickaxe power is inconsistent and an unreliable game mechanic.

You changed your thoughts on this to instead just being game mechanics, right? I don't have to explain why this would be wrong.

One does not contradict the other.

The Champion breaking blocks comes from their own strength and not from their tools because block durability and pickaxe power are game mechanics. A copper pickaxe mining a block it shouldn't be able to can be explained by it being a game mechanic since it would cause scaling problems otherwise, so it shouldn't be used as an argument against nebula fragment blocks keeping the fragments weight.

 

[Lou_change]

The Champion breaking blocks comes from their own strength and not from their tools because block durability and pickaxe power are game mechanics. A copper pickaxe mining a block it shouldn't be able to can be explained by it being a game mechanic since it would cause scaling problems otherwise, so it shouldn't be used as an argument against nebula fragment blocks keeping the fragments weight.

I feel like the fact that they decided not to force you to use certain pickaxes for blocks that only appear if you place them doesn't mean that the times they do prevent you aren't meant to represent challenges within the narrative of the game.

Sure! There's other items that have way more nebula fragments in their recipe though. Nebula dye has 10 fragments in each bottle and is crafted in a dye vat and not in an ancient manipulator, so I don't see how it wouldn't keep its weight as 10 fragments containing that amount of energy get turned into a physical dye that has mass (that can also be painted on in every armor, accessory, mount and pet).

the dye made of the floating fragments?

How does that contradict the fact an arrow or a bullet made out of just luminite can damage and kill the Moon Lord? It's literally a post Moon-Lord resource. Logically, that means the luminite material/ore needs to scale to Moon Lord's durability, so a copper pickaxe mining that material means the copper pickaxe can break something that scales to Moon Lord's durability. With that logic, a pre-boss player scales to Moon Lord by having a copper pickaxe. That's why I'm arguing block durability should not be scaled and cannot be used as an argument against nebula fragment blocks just because they can be mined by a copper pickaxe. Block durability/pickaxe power is inconsistent and an unreliable game mechanic.

an arrow made of just wood and stone can do the same it's ap scales not it's durability. But you're probably right about it just being game mechanics in this case

 

[Skarfz]

?

Disappear as in, the fragment became a block.

I don't think they do that and that's specifically the ancient manipulator

The ancient manipulator is still a way of transmutation, my argument isnt "only champion can do it" its that crafting can fully turns literal energy and infuses them into stone blocks, you can see this by throwing the blocks at shimmer, its clearly not just "painting" because painting stuff in this game is with a paintbrush.

Ancient manipulator

My point is still the same, it completely transformed the type of liquid in the bucket.
This also made me think though, 10 luminite bars is capable of changing all of the infinite liquid inside, but ill keep this bottomless bucket stuff for later.

 

[Lou_change]

Anyway so the pick up range is probably magnetism

 

[Arkhal1s4]

the dye made of the floating fragments?

This made me have an idea. The fragment, as you argued, would have the radiant output of a galaxy contained inside it as it contains the power of a galaxy. It floats, so you truly can't argue for it having weight. You can instead argue that it is a container for the energy in the same way a bottomless water bucket is a container for the unlimited water, likely being in a pocket dimension. This fixes both the problem with the weightlessness and it containing so much energy/mass at the same time.

However, 10 of these fragments are mixed with water and made into a physical dye with mass at a dye vat, it's a physical dye that you can paint over armor and accessories with. Mass = Energy, unless you can prove that dyes are massless (I don't see dye bottles floating in Terraria), the nebula fragment's contained energy was just converted into mass right there. You can't mix water with energy to make paint out of it, you can't use energy to make paint, and you definitely can't paint armor with energy, the nebula fragment was converted from energy into paint with mass. The dye has the mass of the nebula fragments and unlike the individual fragments it is affected by gravity, which backs up my argument.

To argue against this logic, you have to prove the nebula fragments mass/energy wasn't used for the recipe and it is just regular dye. If you try to argue for that, you also have to prove a throne is actually made out of gold and silk and not wood painted over with yellow dye, which you can't, you have to assume it is made out of the items used in the crafting recipe, as that is the obvious assumption one would make.

In my opinion, this is the logic that should be used. Assuming it doesn't have mass/energy goes against the description stating the fragment contains the power of a galaxy, but assuming it has the mass/energy goes against the fragment floating. The fragment storing the energy in a pocket dimension like the bottomless water bucket doesn't contradict either, and the fragment being converted into dye with mass that is affected by gravity means it now actually has the weight of the 10 nebula fragments, which cannot be unproven unless you want to argue that no craftable item in Terraria is made out of its components.

 

[Arkhal1s4]

I feel like the fact that they decided not to force you to use certain pickaxes for blocks that only appear if you place them doesn't mean that the times they do prevent you aren't meant to represent challenges within the narrative of the game.

Yeah, you can argue that, but that doesn't fix the fact luminite being mined by a copper pickaxe would cause that scaling inconsistency, so I definitely think it shouldn't be used as an argument against nebula blocks just because a copper pickaxe can mine it, as it is a very inconsistent way to scale.

an arrow made of just wood and stone can do the same it's ap scales not it's durability. But you're probably right about it just being game mechanics in this case

Yes, I know a regular arrow can do the same in gameplay, but the luminite arrow could have canonically done it, as it scales to the endgame Champion just like the Zenith and other endgame weapons do. A copper pickaxe mining luminite completely breaks scaling if you don't assume block durability/pickaxe power to be game mechanics.

 

[Lou_change]

Yeah, you can argue that, but that doesn't fix the fact luminite being mined by a copper pickaxe would cause that scaling inconsistency, so I definitely think it shouldn't be used as an argument against nebula blocks just because a copper pickaxe can mine it, as it is a very inconsistent way to scale

Agree

Yes, I know a regular arrow can do the same in gameplay, but the luminite arrow could have canonically done it, as it scales to the endgame Champion just like the Zenith and other endgame weapons do. A copper pickaxe mining luminite completely breaks scaling if you don't assume block durability/pickaxe power to be game mechanics.

Still agree with the mining stuff but also I feel endless quiver would be reasonable.

can instead argue that it is a container for the energy in the same way a bottomless water bucket is a container for the unlimited water, likely being in a pocket dimension. This fixes both the problem with the weightlessness and it containing so much energy/mass at the same time.

so hammerspace? I figured it is just because it's magic.

You can't mix water with energy to make paint out of it, you can't use energy to make paint, and you definitely can't paint armor with energy, the nebula fragment was converted from energy into paint with mass.

I mean I don't think dyes can just cause that visual animation on their own either, but it does.

 

[Arkhal1s4]

I mean I don't think dyes can just cause that visual animation on their own either, but it does.

I don't think gold can make a staff capable of shooting red magic either, but it does. The hammerspace/pocket dimension argument fixes the problems with the nebula fragment, and arguing against the dye having the mass/energy of the nebula fragments would be the same as arguing against any craftable item in Terraria keeping the mass of its components, so every lifting feat for the Champion lifting craftable gold items would have to be removed as it cannot be proven that the materials keep their mass.

 

[Skarfz]

from nebula dye trivia on the wiki, id thought it was interesting enough to put it here.

• The Nebula Dye's animation could represent the pillars of light gravitating matter upwards as seen in the background of any place where the Nebula Pillar is located, or any place where the Nebula Monolith is activated.

this is a "could" so dont take it as full proof.

also the bottomless shimmer bucket might be a good candidate for High 3-A/Infinite LS because theres no outliers with it, literally the only one scaling to it would be post-moonlord champion.
so, if things do go right, it should probably be:
3-B, Possibly 3-A and potentially pre-stellar LS post-golem and Post-Cultist (via canon crossover scaling to Old God and the full power of OOA)
High 3-A/Infinite LS via shimmer bucket (Post-Moon Lord only and nobody else scales)

 

[Arkhal1s4]

from nebula dye trivia on the wiki, id thought it was interesting enough to put it here.

• The Nebula Dye's animation could represent the pillars of light gravitating matter upwards as seen in the background of any place where the Nebula Pillar is located, or any place where the Nebula Monolith is activated.

this is a "could" so dont take it as full proof.

also the bottomless shimmer bucket might be a good candidate for High 3-A/Infinite LS because theres no outliers with it, literally the only one scaling to it would be post-moonlord champion.
so, if things do go right, it should probably be:
3-B, Possibly 3-A and potentially pre-stellar LS post-golem and Post-Cultist (via canon crossover scaling to Old God and the full power of OOA)
High 3-A/Infinite LS via shimmer bucket

Hm, that could be another explanation for nebula fragments floating, although I'm pretty confident in my proposition about the nebula dye.

Also, I think we need more information about DD and DD2, I actually don't know much about the verse and there's no VSBW page for them, there could be arguments for higher stuff out there.

Edit: Oh wait, it actually exists?

 

[Skarfz]

Hm, that could be another explanation for nebula fragments floating, although I'm pretty confident in my proposition about the nebula dye.

to be fair every fragment stays flying despite the other pillars not pulling things upwards, and when you kill the nebula pillar the fragment just stays there.
edit: the lunar hook is an extra 6 nebula fragments + all the dyes.

Also, I think we need more information about DD and DD2, I actually don't know anything about the verse and there's no VSBW page for them, there could be arguments for higher stuff out there.

right, though for now this is pretty consistent and AP/dura revision should be pretty close to start, i already got the lower scaling of terraria done with too

 

[Lou_change]

I don't think gold can make a staff capable of shooting red magic either, but it does.

I mean gold is explicitly acknowledged to have different properties than our world by Goblin Tinkerer and it's probably just the ruby given Gem Bunnies bestiary entry.

arguing against the dye having the mass/energy of the nebula fragments would be the same as arguing against any craftable item in Terraria keeping the mass of its components

I don't agree with the claim Nebula fragments have mass.

 

[Arkhal1s4]

I mean gold is explicitly acknowledged to have different properties than our world by Goblin Tinkerer and it's probably just the ruby given Gem Bunnies bestiary entry.

It's not the only time this happens, what about every item made out of completely normal stuff that gains magic powers after its crafted? Like, you can literally take a bunny (or the hundreds of other critters/enemies) and a bunch of stone in a work bench and make a statue that spawns an infinite amount of them. Materials in Terraria can be completely normal but then gain magic properties after they are crafted, dyes having special effects that the materials they are made out of don't normally have doesn't mean anything, it is a completely irrelevant argument against the nebula dye, it has an animation like half of the other dyes and that doesn't mean anything.

I don't agree with the claim Nebula fragments have mass.

Physics 101, mass = energy. The nebula fragments contain the power of a galaxy in their hammerspace, we are assuming its the radiant output of a galaxy. Once the nebula fragments are converted into dye with mass, the only logical conclusion is that they keep their energy that was now converted into mass. If you don't buy this argument, you also shouldn't buy craftable items keeping their mass. Gold, platinum, iron, any lifting feats coming from crafted materials should be removed if you assume they don't keep the mass/energy of their components.

 

[Lou_change]

Materials in Terraria can be completely normal but then gain magic properties after they are crafted, dyes having special effects that the materials they are made out of don't normally have doesn't mean anything, it is a completely irrelevant argument against the nebula dye, it has an animation like half of the other dyes and that doesn't mean anything.

Which dyes that you can actually craft fit that bill also

 

[Arkhal1s4]

Which dyes that you can actually craft fit that bill also

Look at crafted dyes.

 

[Lou_change]

Look at crafted dyes.

Did it before and did it again didn't see any that aren't based on already animated dye or a weird material

 

[Arkhal1s4]

Did it before and did it again didn't see any that aren't based on already animated dye or a weird material

Pink gel dye, it has an animation of gel moving in your body. The shifting pearlsand dye also has sand moving through your body endlessly. These items gain magic properties that they didn't have before, just like my previous example of the stone + critter in a workbench making a statue that can spawn an infinite amount of them. I don't know if you want me to list literally every item that has an IRL counterpart with no magic properties that then gains them when crafted or something.

I really don't understand where you're trying to get at.

 

[Arkhal1s4]

Anyway, as I just said, I discovered that there's a profile for the Old One in VSBW.

The provided scan made me realize another argument for the crystalline dimension being multi-galaxy or possibly universal. As I argued before, being outside of a galaxy must mean that the large "starry sky" outside of it must be intergalactic space, especially since the points of light look to be further away than the spiral galaxy itself. I noticed that the "starry sky" has similar patterns to galaxy filaments, so one more point for multi-galaxy/universal I guess.

 

[Skarfz]

unrelated to the LS/AP stuff, i kinda wish that immortality and acausality type 4 stuff that i planned was accepted, bambu didnt even answer the immo type 4 stuff.
can also add 2 more types of NPI to champion:
Energy and/or Plasma (can interact with pure cosmic energy from fragments)
Abstract (can interact and even kill dryad, which is a physical manifestation of terraria's will)
i also wanna remove the "possibly" from conceptual manipulation since hallow/crimson/corruption are a universal rule/concept to keep balance throughout worlds. (lore post stuff)
i will wait before doing another hax revision though since i might have missed some stuff, so that when i make another one i just bundle it all up.

 

[Arkhal1s4]

Abstract (can interact and even kill dryad, which is a physical manifestation of terraria's will)

Not sure about that, that would ruin the chainscale for DD2 and make pre-hardmode scale to multi-galaxy. As I previously argued, the Dryad never canonically dies like the Guide since she is stated to be the last of the Dryads and another Dryad with a different name moves in if you kill her, so killing her is most likely non-canon. Pre-boss Champion can kill WoF if the player is good enough, but it doesn't happen canonically so they can't scale.

Maybe there's an argument for endgame Champion having abstract NPI, since the story is over and nothing says the Champion can't kill the Dryad after the credits.

 

[Skarfz]

Not sure about that, that would ruin the chainscale for DD2 and make pre-hardmode scale to multi-galaxy. As I previously argued, the Dryad never canonically dies like the Guide since the is stated to be the last of the Dryads and another Dryad with a different name moves in if you kill her, so killing her is most likely non-canon. Pre-boss Champion can kill WoF if the player is good enough, but it doesn't happen canonically so they can't scale.

Maybe there's an argument for endgame Champion having abstract NPI, since the story is over and nothing says the Champion can't kill the Dryad after the credits.

yes i was iffy on the "can kill dryad" too, but most important part is being capable of interacting with her in the first place.
edit: or just abstract for late-endgame, yea

 

[Lou_change]

Pink gel dye, it has an animation of gel moving in your body. The shifting pearlsand dye

Both are made from already animated dye

 

[Arkhal1s4]

Both are made from already animated dye

Half of the strange plant dyes have animations, and I don't see the strange plant itself having animations. Why does that matter for the nebula dye keeping its mass/energy anyway?

I already provided examples of regular materials gaining magical properties after being crafted using regular non-magical materials. I already stated that assuming the nebula dye doesn't keep the mass/energy of the nebula fragments assumes that no craftable item keeps the mass of its components either.

Nebula dye having an animation is meaningless. I would prefer that you moved on to more solid arguments for why nebula dye wouldn't have nebula's fragment mass/energy if my hammerspace/pocket dimension explanation is accepted as the most reasonable one, as I fail to see any decent counterarguments until now.

 

[Lou_change]

Half of the strange plant dyes have animations, and I don't see the strange plant itself having animations.

Those are trades he isn't just making them from the strange plants

I would prefer that you moved on to more solid arguments for why nebula dye wouldn't have nebula's fragment mass/energy if my hammerspace/pocket dimension explanation is accepted as the most reasonable one, as I fail to see any decent counterarguments until now.

What about the fact it would a 10 million times denser a neutron star's core and still doesn't break the glass bottle it's in.

 

[Arkhal1s4]

What about the fact it would a 10 million times denser a neutron star's core and still doesn't break the glass bottle it's in.

Why doesn't the Moon Lord blow up the player's world with his planet level AP? Is he stupid?
Why does a water bottle fall to the bottom of the ocean instead of floating, is it stupid?
Why can the player drink an unlimited amount of water bottles and have infinite weight, are they stupid?

 

[Arkhal1s4]

I forgot, a stack of 9999 thrones or the Golem can both be held by a single floating glass platform or by a cloud block. I think they really are stupid after all.

 

[Lou_change]

I assume you don't understand why such a density is probably physically impossible in short it probably should either

Why doesn't the Moon Lord blow up the player's world with his planet level AP?

Didn't the planet canonically kick his ass

Why does a water bottle fall to the bottom of the ocean instead of floating, is it stupid?

a bottle full of water isn't buoyant an empty bottle could be but if we accept crafting conserving mass a bottle in terraria weighs 62.2971 Kg assuming a volume of 2 feet which I think is a high ball it displaces 58.05 Kg water meaning it still won't float

Why can the player drink an unlimited amount of water bottles and have infinite weight, are they stupid?

you know we have rules right it's close to the point where we don't actually know what happened when something is that dense and that makes actual considering it for a calc weird if I am not mistaken.

 

[Skarfz]

What about the fact it would a 10 million times denser a neutron star's core and still doesn't break the glass bottle it's in.

This logic doesnt even apply to anything in the game.
A fire spear made of the sun doesnt do anything to glass platforms so it must be very very weak right?
Or throwing a bunch of boulders at glass platforms
Or the fragments being able to exist at all considering they're super dense energy balls (dont know why yall are a considering it a hammerspace though unless i missed a lot of arguments)
You can really disprove anything in this game with logic

I assume you don't understand why such a density is probably physically impossible in short it probably should either

"Physically impossible" in fiction again

Didn't the planet canonically kick his ass

Power of the planet isnt planet level, especially when its a magical race of dryads, its also an "unparalleled" connection to a planet that has "unprecedented" potential
The planet also didnt kick his ass because it took an entire race that (i assume) was the strongest race ever on that planet, the entire race died and the most damage he took was... one eye, a bit of brain, spine/skeleton? Which then he regenerates it all, shown against champion.

 

[Arkhal1s4]

Man, how did we get from arguing about the nebula fragment to trying to explain that a fictional story doesn't need to explain why glass doesn't break?

Why doesn't glass get a single scratch when its hit by projectiles from Moon Lord, Lunatic Cultist, the Martians, the Celestial Pillars, etc? Is glass planet level? Why can a glass bottle fall from space to hell and not break? This logic is completely meaningless, I still fail to see any decent arguments against my proposition for nebula dye. You're grasping at straws.

(dont know why yall are a considering it a hammerspace though unless i missed a lot of arguments)

I made a proposition to explain the nebula fragments properties. If you assume it has the power of a galaxy (in this case the radiant power produced by a galaxy) then it can't have that mass because it floats. If you assume it doesn't have that mass, then that is contradicted by the description stating it has the power of a galaxy.

My explanation is that the nebula fragment contains a hammerspace/pocket dimension that holds that energy similarly to the four types of bottomless buckets and four types of sponges. That is far more reasonable as either of the previous two explanations, as it doesn't contradict the fragment containing the power of a galaxy nor it floating, so I would argue that it should be the chosen explanation for the nebula fragment.

The nebula dye contains 10 fragments and a water bottle in its recipe that is made in the dye vat (so you can't argue for ancient manipulator shenanigans). Mass = Energy, so the nebula fragments becoming physical paint/dye that can be painted over armor and accessories means that energy was just converted into mass, as the fragments disappeared and became a physical dye.

You can't argue against the nebula dye having the mass/energy of the fragments, because arguing against that means that you also can't accept a throne being made out of gold and silk. You would have to prove the throne kept the mass of gold and isn't a wooden throne painted over with yellow dye or a throne made out of yellow silk, which is impossible unless you assume that it kept the mass of its crafting material, that being gold. If the nebula dye can't be accepted as keeping the mass/energy of the nebula fragment, then any craftable item cannot be accepted as keeping the mass of the material used to craft it either.

 

[Lou_change]

This logic doesnt even apply to anything in the game.
A fire spear made of the sun doesnt do anything to glass platforms so it must be very very weak right?
Or throwing a bunch of boulders at glass platforms
Or the fragments being able to exist at all considering they're super dense energy balls (dont know why yall are a considering it a hammerspace though unless i missed a lot of arguments)
You can really disprove anything in this game with logic

So what you are saying is what you are claiming doesn't in any way what so ever align with what is actually shown.

 

[Skarfz]

So what you are saying is what you are claiming doesn't in any way what so ever align with what is actually shown.

???? just read what arkhalis said up there, my point is that your argument of "the glass would break from the nebula energy converted into it" doesnt make sense because glass doesnt even break from boulders in the first place, or from a sun spear.
and theres much more than just nebula dye for the LS argument, theres the nebula monolith which is crafted from just 18 fragments, yet it becomes a completely physical monolith, or the nebula blaze weapon becoming an actual glove from 18 fragments despite the recipe not having any gloves, or the nebula blocks themselves which is in my opinion the most straightfoward thing ever. (theres also the nebula furniture)

also, you can make glass blocks with lava inside. glass in terraria clearly isn't your average glass. or the fact that you can just... put glass close to lava.

 

[Lou_change]

also, you can make glass blocks with lava inside. glass in terraria clearly isn't your average glass. or the fact that you can just... put glass close to lava

Via magic

 

[Arkhal1s4]

Via magic

Is the throne not made out of gold then? Is a regular crafting table magic? By your logic, no craftable item should keep the mass and energy of its component material conserved.

theres the nebula monolith which is crafted from just 18 fragments, yet it becomes a completely physical monolith,

Well, I'm going for the nebula dye because it's the only nebula fragment based item that is crafted without the ancient manipulator, which is being argued as a magic crafting station that would not conserve mass/energy or something. I don't agree with that logic, but the nebula dye is an exception anyway by virtue of being crafted in a regular dye vat, so I still haven't seen any good argument against it. The champion would scale to the LS of all the dye bottles equipped in his armor and accessories as they physically paint their armor with the dye.

 

[Arkhal1s4]

Tbh, that logic of assuming the ancient manipulator doesn't conserve mass unlike all the other crafting stations is kinda dumb. Every crafting station uses magic, the Champion is never shown crafting anything and it just pops out of thin air. You can get a bunny and stone, put it in a work bench and make a statue that can spawn an infinite amount of bunnies, that's already magic.

Does that mean craftable items shouldn't keep the mass of their component materials since all crafting stations are magic? That logic doesn't make sense. If my nebula fragment hammerspace/pocket dimension explanation is accepted, I honestly think items crafted from nebula fragments should count as having the mass/energy of the fragments, or you run into the same problem of having to prove a throne is made out of gold and has the mass of gold.