Akatsukiverse (Mainly Konosuba) CRT: Some revisions

[Bruh]

Im pretty sure there have been plenty times where Kazuma, Aqua and Megumin hurt and wrestle with each other or is that just for comedic effect

 

[TheShape03]

Im pretty sure there have been plenty times where Kazuma, Aqua and Megumin hurt and wrestle with each other or is that just for comedic effect

For comedic effect, without a doubt.

• Even Megumin (whose class is not intended for physical combat) has better stats than him (Vol. 4), and describes Kazuma as "weak" (Yorimichi 1).
• Aqua eclipses Kazuma in stats and is comparable to Mitsurugi, who is far superior to Kazuma (Vol. 1).
• Darkness is able to fight the Kowloon Hydra (Vol. 7) and Beldia, who claims to be far superior to Kazuma (Vol. 1). Furthermore, Kazuma needed Aqua's buffs to be able to match Darkness' strength (Vol. 7).
• Kazuma, even at his peak, claimed to be weaker than the average adventurer (Vol. 17).

 

[Bruh]

For comedic effect, without a doubt.

• Even Megumin (whose class is not intended for physical combat) has better stats than him (Vol. 4), and describes Kazuma as "weak" (Yorimichi 1).
• Aqua eclipses Kazuma in stats and is comparable to Mitsurugi, who is far superior to Kazuma (Vol. 1).
• Darkness is able to fight the Kowloon Hydra (Vol. 7) and Beldia, who claims to be far superior to Kazuma (Vol. 1). Furthermore, Kazuma needed Aqua's buffs to be able to match Darkness' strength (Vol. 7).
• Kazuma, even at his peak, claimed to be weaker than the average adventurer (Vol. 17).

Shame, maybe an extreme downscale to baseline Wall and Class M ?

 

[TheShape03]

Shame, maybe an extreme downscale to baseline Wall and Class M ?

Nah, there are a lot of anti-feats, and it doesn't make sense that Kazuma is Class M in LS. I mean, look at this, it's impossible for us to convince anyone that that guy can lift a thousand tons.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Btw can one of yall PLEASE apply the Country level Aqua buff

Aqua (Konosuba)

Aqua (アクア) is one of the main protagonists of the KonoSuba series. Prior to life in the Fantasy World, she was a Goddess of Water who guided humans in the afterlife. She is worshipped in the Fantasy World by the Axis Order. Tier: 9-B, 8-C with Buffs, 8-B with Sacred Create Water | 8-B Key...

vsbattles.fandom.com

I literally gave her the outdated template because no one wants to apply it

 

[TheShape03]

Btw can one of yall PLEASE apply the Country level Aqua buff

Aqua (Konosuba)

Aqua (アクア) is one of the main protagonists of the KonoSuba series. Prior to life in the Fantasy World, she was a Goddess of Water who guided humans in the afterlife. She is worshipped in the Fantasy World by the Axis Order. Tier: 9-B, 8-C with Buffs, 8-B with Sacred Create Water | 8-B Key...

vsbattles.fandom.com

I literally gave her the outdated template because no one wants to apply it

Done.

I also updated Eris and Vanir's profiles, since the CRT that accepted 6-B also included them.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Done.

I also updated Eris and Vanir's profiles, since the CRT that accepted 6-B also included them.

wait shes actually 6-b in ap too? i thought it was only durability for some reason

 

[TheShape03]

wait shes actually 6-b in ap too? i thought it was only durability for some reason

The CRT implies that it also applies to the power of the characters.

In previous threads I have argued Konosuba's scaling to Combatants who has country busting technology, showing how the author portrayed the high tiers (Gods, Devils and Angels) as stronger than Kisaragi and their technology.

Now, in a recent short-story, country busting magic was confirmed to exist

I propose, therefore, that with this knowledge and scaling from Combatants, that the god-tiers, the gods like Aqua and Eris, or archdevils/Dukes of Hell like Vanir, get updated to 6-B (Country-Level) while using their true forms/real bodies.

 

[Random-Helper323]

(Minor) Mid-Tier Update:

Mid-Tiers (Demon King Generals, Buffed Kazuma, Darkness, Wiz, etc.) currently scale at 8-C+, since Darkness scales above Combat Agent Six. The profile doesn't explain why, but in the thread where it was proposed to scale Darkness above Six, it is mentioned that it is because she survived being hit by Combat Agent Twenty-Two, who is comparable to Combat Agent Six.

While I agree that Darkness should scale above Six, I think she (and therefore all other mid-tiers) should be upgraded to High 8-C. Darkness not only survived Agent 22's hits, she tanked them, and they didn't even hurt her. She was even disappointed that she didn't feel any pain. The guy even hurt his hands hitting her. So, considering that Darkness should be far superior to him, and given that the 8-C+ feat is 1.76 Tons of TNT, Darkness should scale to at least 2 Tons of TNT (High 8-C Baseline), the difference is x1.13, so it seems reasonable to me.

Kazuma returns to 10-A:


The Giant Toads in the anime are much larger than in the novel, so this calculation can't be applied to the novel, but leaving aside the fact that the anime isn't currently accepted as canon: Kazuma admits that he only managed to kill it because the Giant Toad was busy swallowing Aqua and didn't fight back. Not to mention how inconsistent this is, Giant Toads easily overpower Aqua, an adventurer with high stats. Darkness also states that Giant Toads are strong, but are easy to stab and do not defend themselves against anyone wearing armor, which explains why Kazuma can kill them.

Could Kazuma go back to 9-C? Nah.


This is a bad translation; the official translation says Kazuma held the three men, not dragged them. Only one attempted (unsuccessfully) to escape. This would also lower his LS to "Above Average Human," since he at least surpasses normal humans and is still of a considerable level.


Actually, he was injured by the fall, and he had also been buffed by Aqua, which is why he had managed to surpass Darkness in strength minutes earlier.

As a result of this, all characters that scale from Kazuma will also be downgraded.

More about Giant Toads:

Obviously, everything related to Giant Toads will also be removed from Megumin's and Aqua's profiles. Both profiles use scans from the (non-canon) anime to argue that they're comparable to Giant Toads. Furthermore, their feats are invalid anyway.


Giant Toads' attacks rely on immobilizing their prey with their mouths and slowly swallowing them; Aqua isn't taking hits from them or anything.


This is simply because the staff got stuck in the Toad's mouth. Megumin wasn't even able to move at this point, as she had just cast her explosion magic and had no mana. Shortly after, Kazuma had to give her some mana so Megumin could stand up.

These suggestions seem reasonable.

Magic Lightning:

Current Standards.

- "Cloud-to-ground lightning is considered to be real lightning, as long as there is nothing suggesting otherwise": Magical lightning bolts can be summoned from the clouds if the character so desires.

- "Flowing through conducting materials": It is mentioned that lightning magic flows through metal. Additionally, the electricity from one of these spells flows through water and electrocutes many people in the Dust spin-off.

- "Making muscles of affected beings contract": I guess this counts.

- "Being shown to actually move with a speed similar to lightning": I'm not sure if this counts, but on one occasion, a magical lightning bolt quickly reaches the sky after being fired.

The lightning should be fine.

Magical Light:

Current Standards.

- "The beam behaves in a reasonably realistic way, such as reflecting off non-magical mirrors or refracting and diffusing through liquids and materials": It does.

- "The beam is stated to be composed/consisting of photons or light itself, again by reliable sources": It is not stated to be composed of photons, but it is possible to demonstrate this. Magical light is capable of temporarily blinding people; this occurs because exposure to bright light causes a shock to the photoreceptors, so this should prove that magical light is composed of photons.

Not sure about this part though.

Lightning Magic Spells:

- Lightning (Users: Yunyun and Kazuma)

- Lightning Strike (Users: Yunyun and Wiz)

- Cursed Lightning (Users: Yunyun and Wiz)

All of these characters should receive "Massively Hypersonic+ Attack Speed with (Name of the spell they use)".

This should be okay.

Light-based Spells:

- Light of Saber (Users: Wiz and Yunyun)

- Crimson Laser (Users: Duke)

- Explosion (Users: Megumin, Wiz, Wolbach, and Kazuma)

- Turn Undead (Users: Aqua)

- Sacred Exorcism (Users: Aqua)

- Vanir Death Ray (Users: Vanir)

- Sacred Lightning Flare (Users: Iris)

- Sacred Explode (Users: Iris)

- Flash (Users: Kazuma)

And I think that's all of them... All of those characters should receive "Speed of Light Attack Speed with (Name of the spell they use)".

Not sure.

Absolutely necessary revision... okay, I'm just being a perfectionist: Some profiles have names that need to be changed.

- Host's name is misspelled.

- Chris is Eris's alter ego, so the profile should probably be called "Eris" instead of Chris.

These should be okay.

- Kazuma and Iris's first names should come before their last names.

That's often a bit complicated with how it's done in Japan. First name first should be okay though.

9-B and Class M:

I almost forgot about this.

This calculation was accepted, and Aqua can damage Mitsurugi, so she should scale to Wall level and Class M (the latter because the "strength" statistic within the verse encompasses both striking and lifting strength, meaning that a character comparable to another in one of the two aspects will also be comparable in the other, and a character superior to another in one of the two aspects will also be superior in the other).

Darkness should scale to "at least Class M." She can overpower Aqua, and considering her tier, she should be far superior to Mitsurugi and Aqua. Any character with a higher Tier than Aqua should also upscale above Mitsurugi's feat.

Thie calculation should be fine. Not every character with a higher Tier will have that lifting strength though.

 

[TheShape03]

Not sure about this part though.

If it helps, I think this part of the short story "Rain for this Withered Land!" implies that elements "created" by magic are natural. The "Create Water" spell creates water by taking moisture from the air, "Create Earth" brings earth from some unknown place, etc. This should probably support the idea that magical light is, in fact, natural light.

Not every character with a higher Tier will have that lifting strength though.

The verse works similarly to a video game, with levels and stats. The "strength" stat encompasses both striking and lifting ability. Wouldn't that mean that if a character has a strength stat comparable to another character, they should be comparable in both striking and lifting strength?

 

[Random-Helper323]

If it helps, I think this part of the short story "Rain for this Withered Land!" implies that elements "created" by magic are natural. The "Create Water" spell creates water by taking moisture from the air, "Create Earth" brings earth from some unknown place, etc. This should probably support the idea that magical light is, in fact, natural light.

Hmm... Maybe. We'd need verse experts to give input, I think.

The verse works similarly to a video game, with levels and stats. The "strength" stat encompasses both striking and lifting ability. Wouldn't that mean that if a character has a strength stat comparable to another character, they should be comparable in both striking and lifting strength?

If that is accepted in the Wiki, then it could work.

 

[TheShape03]

Bump

 

[TheShape03]

Bump

 

[RaikiKurohane99]

Sorry for the disturbance, but it seems that your help is important here.

@Celestial_Pegasus @Elizhaa @CrimsonStarFallen @LephyrTheRevanchist

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Bump

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Bump

 

[Ruby_R_Dracula]

Chunchunmaru

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

- "The beam behaves in a reasonably realistic way, such as reflecting off non-magical mirrors or refracting and diffusing through liquids and materials": It does.

Is the argument here that the light is refracting through the ball of ice?

"Scatter" is too vague of a word to assume that it means "diffusing" or "refracting" here. It could be bouncing off, it could be deflecting, it could be dividing the beam into smaller ones upon contact, etc, specially since it appears to be a beam attack. Without a visual it's hard to say.

So I wouldn't count this as enough evidence.

- "The beam is stated to be composed/consisting of photons or light itself, again by reliable sources": It is not stated to be composed of photons, but it is possible to demonstrate this. Magical light is capable of temporarily blinding people; this occurs because exposure to bright light causes a shock to the photoreceptors, so this should prove that magical light is composed of photons.

The photon requirement is strictly statement-based. As in, a character/narration mentioning photons.

And non-natural light can be bright too, it doesn't make it natural. Having a photon statement is what would differentiate them.

If it helps, I think this part of the short story "Rain for this Withered Land!" implies that elements "created" by magic are natural. The "Create Water" spell creates water by taking moisture from the air, "Create Earth" brings earth from some unknown place, etc. This should probably support the idea that magical light is, in fact, natural light.

This is in the right direction, but at the same time the person making the statement doesn't know how other elemental magic works and light magic isnt mentioned.

IMO this scan works as supporting evidence but not definitive evidence by itself. So for now Im neutral on magical light being natural light.

The rest of the OP seems fine.

 

[Vietthai96]

Not touching scaling since it is not my forte, lighting section is oke, but i disagree about light section. Photon is strictly statement, being too bright for people to see is not even proof for it being made of photon, etc.... so all in all i share the same opiniom as Oblivion

 

[Bruh]

Cant remember if I put my vote or not but agree

 

[TheShape03]

Thanks everyone for voting. So, ignoring the light section, can I apply everything else?

I honestly think Aqua should be considered a reliable source on how elemental magic works, considering she's a goddess and has proven to be a trustworthy source of information on numerous occasions. While she doesn't know the origin of the earth summoned by magic, she maintains that elemental magic doesn't create anything and only summons natural elements from somewhere.

But I can leave that for another day. I'll wait for the manga to adapt the fight between Wiz and Duke to see if the magical light reflects off the ice or not.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Thanks everyone for voting. So, ignoring the light section, can I apply everything else?

I honestly think Aqua should be considered a reliable source on how elemental magic works, considering she's a goddess and has proven to be a trustworthy source of information on numerous occasions. While she doesn't know the origin of the earth summoned by magic, she maintains that elemental magic doesn't create anything and only summons natural elements from somewhere.

But I can leave that for another day. I'll wait for the manga to adapt the fight between Wiz and Duke to see if the magical light reflects off the ice or not.

Yeah you're good to go

 

[ShionAH]

I am kinda confused, would anyone scale to MHS or Light Speed rn? Did any character dodge those

 

[TheShape03]

I am kinda confused, would anyone scale to MHS or Light Speed rn? Did any character dodge those

No, the only thing currently accepted is that lightning magic is MHS+, but it was rejected that light magic is natural light.

There's a character who regularly dodges lightning magic, but I decided to leave that for another CRT, so as not to overload this one, and because I think it needs to be calculated.

 

[MidnightDawn1]

But I can leave that for another day. I'll wait for the manga to adapt the fight between Wiz and Duke to see if the magical light reflects off the ice or not.

Also, I hate to sound petty, but would this even mean anything? Since the manga, light novel, and anime are separate things?

 

[TheShape03]

Also, I hate to sound petty, but would this even mean anything? Since the manga, light novel, and anime are separate things?

The "regarding canon" section on the verse page doesn't mention anything about the manga, but it's been used in various accepted calculations for years. I suppose its status is something like "secondary canon." I remember reading the manga a while ago, and I honestly think it should be that way, considering the manga is a much more faithful adaptation than the anime, to the point that the differences between the novel and the manga are very minor.

 

[TheShape03]

If we decide to no longer use the manga as a visual reference for the novel's feats, we will have to make many changes in the next CRT.

 

[MidnightDawn1]

I see, well, if there isn't any reason to knock the manga compared to the anime, then I guess it's fine. I just remember years ago I used to complain about why we couldn't use anime feats, but Rezero could, and I just got told "the Rezero author is more involved in the anime than the Konosuba author", which in retrospect is very reasonable lmao.

So I was just wondering if manga feats would be valid under that same logic, but I guess not or we'll have to go Scorched Earth on this verse

 

[ShionAH]

the Rezero author is more involved in the anime than the Konosuba author

Idk that doesnt sound reasonable to me at all lmao

 

[MidnightDawn1]

Idk that doesnt sound reasonable to me at all lmao

Me neither back then, but I lowk hear it now.

Most anime (at least before it was mainstream) were made to sell the manga/LN. So how it's animated would be left up to the directors interpertation and stuff, but in cases like Rezero when the author of the original work is heavily involved, that means basically every scene was animated to his vision and not interpretation of the words he wrote, so if a character moves Nth fast in the animation, it's reasonable to scale that across LN and anime continuities ig.

I couldn't think of a way to counter that logic that wasn't just me being salty

 

[MidnightDawn1]

Haven't done one of these in years, so I forgot how long it takes for them to be accepted tho I just put it in a request thread, but I tried calculating the Ninnin Feat, idk if anyone would agree with scaling Kazuma to it, but here's the blog.

If it gets accepted, I'll make a separate CRT. I'm just making this comment to TheShape (and everyone else) aware of this and prevent any time wasted between downgrading Kazuma to 10-A just to (possibly) bring him all the way back up to 9-C. But if it takes too long to get accepted, or nobody is fine with scaling Kaz to this feat even if it does get accepted, then we can just move on.

 

[TheShape03]

Haven't done one of these in years, so I forgot how long it takes for them to be accepted tho I just put it in a request thread, but I tried calculating the Ninnin Feat, idk if anyone would agree with scaling Kazuma to it, but here's the blog.

If it gets accepted, I'll make a separate CRT. I'm just making this comment to TheShape (and everyone else) aware of this and prevent any time wasted between downgrading Kazuma to 10-A just to (possibly) bring him all the way back up to 9-C. But if it takes too long to get accepted, or nobody is fine with scaling Kaz to this feat even if it does get accepted, then we can just move on.

I think we should discuss this in the general discussion thread. By the way, I think it's a huge understatement to assume only 76 mph considering that Ninnin's combat speed surpassed Kazuma's, who scales to Gadalkand.

But I do agree that the feat is valid.

 

[SomebodyData]

Aside from the light portions, everything else seems reasonable; agreed.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Aside from the light portions, everything else seems reasonable; agreed.

Also my opinion, light speed seems a bit too vague for me, at best I think it would only warrant a possibly rating.