The World Looks Black; V1 vs The Roaring Knight (ULTRAKILL vs Deltarune) [0-2-0]

[ARandomDude127]

Getting a little bit into ULTRAKILL, and we need more Deltarune matchups anyways so

“A MACHINE BUILT TO END WAR IS ALWAYS A MACHINE BUILT TO CONTINUE WAR.”:

Scales to this, higher with weaponry, and far higher with Soap; 428.89 Kilotons.
Scales to this; 45,411.4 Metric Tons

• V1 is given prior knowledge on The Roaring Knight’s overwhelming strength, especially how it’s enough to one-shot it. V1 is also given prior knowledge that the Railcannon is primarily needed to defeat The Roaring Knight.

“For the KNIGHT has appeared. The KNIGHT that pulls the Fountains from the Earth. Holy Fountains, whose shadows are creating a new world... OUR world.”: @Qurbonboev @Randomuser3412​

Upscales from this; 6.3 Megatons
Upscales from this; 122.8 Million Tons

Goku solos:

Notes:
V1 has an unquantifiable speed advantage with its guns.
V1 can negate durability to an extent with the Railcannon.
The Roaring Knight has a 14.7x AP advantage over V1.
The Roaring Knight has a ~2,700x LS advantage over V1.

The Rules
V1’s High 7-C scaling is used.
V1 has access to all of its Optional Equipment.

Speed is equalized.

The fight takes place within a Dark World in Hell. (Yall can choose the layer I highkey don’t care)

The two combatants start 100 meters away from each other.

SBA for anything not mentioned.​

 

[Randomuser3412]

Yall can choose the layer I highkey don’t care

Takes place in 8-3 space where the Knight suffocates to death

• V1 is also given prior knowledge that the Railcannon is primarily needed to defeat The Roaring Knight.

don't count out V1 as being a Railcannon merchant. It's got Attack Reflection that could hurt the Knight with its own attacks -- especially useful when most of V1's arsenal won't do much damage here.
V1, obviously, comically outskills the Knight here. Making far better use of all of its mobility options. One, really bad thing for V1 here is the Knight's wind, which would absolutely crush V1 because of the LS difference and allow the Knight to easily kill it.
If the Knight doesn't use its wind, I could definitely see V1 winning, but I think the Knight wins more often than not because of the wind.

 

[ARandomDude127]

Takes place in 8-3 space where the Knight suffocates to death

Trueee why didn’t I think of that

Takes place in 8-3 space where the Knight suffocates to death

don't count out V1 as being a Railcannon merchant. It's got Attack Reflection that could hurt the Knight with its own attacks

I get that, and I’m definitely not trying to restrict +PARRY from V1 but like

I feel like V1 kinda needs to know that literally none of its weaponry is going to do anything besides Railcannon…

 

[Randomuser3412]

V1 is definitely used to fighting things that can (almost) one shot it (looking at you, Sisyphus). You did give V1 "all of its optional equipment", which includes the dual wield powerups (V1 can have at most 2 at once because of "God Damn the Sun" iirc), so it's very possible V1 could do serious damage with a double railcoin and finish the Knight off with parrying its attacks.
Definitely not a stomp, but the Knight probably wins because of the darn red wind.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Who is gonna win:
Ultimate War Machine, that terrifies everything on Earth and in Hell, with immense skill and mobility, and vide variety of weapons, with utmost mastery of all of them
VS
Funny Class G red wind

 

[Randomuser3412]

Actually, V1 can have 4 arms with weapons at once with optional equipment, which might be able to one shot the Knight via Electric Railcannon, however...

Funny Class G red wind

Knight FRA

 

[Qurbonboev]

Knight FRA

 

[ARandomDude127]

Knight FRA

Knight FRA

Damn this wind kinda strong

(Votes counted)

 

[Jerry59]

ofc matches like this would start being made not long after I began rethinking that shitty ass dura neg justification with dozens of things completely contradicting the description.

Knight stat stomp btw. Like I’m not even going to bother humoring you on why saying the Feedbacker can reflect attacks THAT much stronger than V1 is a blatant NLF.

 

[Qurbonboev]

ofc matches like this would start being made not long after I began rethinking that shitty ass dura neg justification with dozens of things completely contradicting the description.

1. Can you elaborate on contradiction?
2. Shouldn't be electric railcanon still remain to it being Powerful Electricity?

Like I’m not even going to bother humoring you on why saying the Feedbacker can reflect attacks THAT much stronger than V1 is a blatant NLF.

3. Depends on the exact mechanism of Feedbacker.

Regardless, does V1 have any duraneg options(strong electric attacks, heat attacks, acid attacks, things like this)?

 

[ARandomDude127]

ofc matches like this would start being made not long after I began rethinking that shitty ass dura neg justification with dozens of things completely contradicting the description.

What can I say except you’re welcome

 

[AyOgUyS]

Regardless, does V1 have any duraneg options(strong electric attacks, heat attacks, acid attacks, things like this)?

I don't think so. I'm 99% sure V1 is just a stats and skill merchant

 

[Jerry59]

1. Can you elaborate on contradiction?

"Infinite piercing power against enemies" and can you tell me what exactly counts as "enemies" here? Unless we’re cherrypicking it to mean anything that ******* moves. It didn’t work on the Gutterman’s shield btw, and it didn’t work on demons’ stone shells either. The statement also comes from the terminal’s strategy section, which usually only refers to game mechanics.

also i was the one who added this to the profile so when i realized it i was like btruh the **** this shit is so ass how did it even get through- oh yeah, right

2. Shouldn't be electric railcanon still remain to it being Powerful Electricity?

We need the electricity to be shown affecting internal organs the way it causes nerve atrophy. Railcannon only makes those who lack sufficient resistance to electricity explode or smth, and I don’t think that’s enough. So unless V1 can somehow spawn the blast right inside RK’s head, it’s not really going to work (or at least it won’t once the infinite piercing thing gets removed)

3. Depends on the exact mechanism of Feedbacker.

Vector manip. Though you do have Gabriel and the Prime Souls, who kinda ignore their attacks being reflected back (they still take the damage but don’t get stunned and have their arms flung like CoKM). Blue flash attacks also suggest the Feedbacker doesn’t work on everything maybe.

What can I say except you’re welcome

Honestly, you probably won’t see the next revision happen until the next month or so, so you don’t really need to postpone this, though I’d appreciate it if you did (or maybe someone else will make a few revisions but there’s a chance they’ll just be grass is green ass changes, so I’m not keeping my hopes high)

 

[Randomuser3412]

Like I’m not even going to bother humoring you on why saying the Feedbacker can reflect attacks THAT much stronger than V1 is a blatant NLF.

Why does it matter how much stronger the attack is... It's Vector Manip and Attack Reflection

Blue flash attacks also suggest the Feedbacker doesn’t work on everything maybe.

Unless we're about to say the Guttertanks are stronger than Sisyphus Prime, the blue flash has nothing to do with the power of the attack.

 

[Jerry59]

Why does it matter how much stronger the attack is... It's Vector Manip and Attack Reflection

Unless we're about to say the Guttertanks are stronger than Sisyphus Prime, the blue flash has nothing to do with the power of the attack.

It’s either the power behind the punch, or there are attacks Feedbacker can’t reflect due to certain mechanisms or reasons, or just game mechanic. Whatever the case you can’t tell me V1 can reflect ANYTHING as long as it has vectors, that’s just outrageous. Even some parriable strikes from higher tiers can’t really be "reflected" which suggests that strength plays a role in determining its limits.

But hey, if you believe otherwise, then go make V1 fight some Tier 5s, surely it’ll work out. The arm system has "VECTOR" in its very name so a planet-busting punch can still be redirected because direction and all!

 

[Randomuser3412]

It’s either the power behind the punch, or there are attacks Feedbacker can’t reflect due to certain mechanics or reasons, or just game mechanic.

I mean, I already explained to you why it can't be the power of the punch

But hey, if you believe otherwise, then go make V1 fight some Tier 5s, surely it’ll work out. The arm system has "VECTOR" in its very name so a planet-busting punch can still be redirected because direction and all!!

Local powerscaler discovers how Attack Reflection works...?

 

[Jerry59]

I mean, I already explained to you why it can't be the power of the punch

And I used that same point to say that V1 simply can’t parry everything, whether due to strength or other factors and circumstances. Also given you more reasons why power does affect the arm’s limits.

Local powerscaler discovers how Attack Reflection works...?

Attack Reflection is the ability to deflect or reflect attacks targeted towards the character. This is a rather powerful ability, as it lets the user perform offense and defense simultaneously by effectively turning one's efforts against them. Some common limitations include only working on attacks of a certain type or power level, a lengthy preparation time, a specific requirement for use, it requiring active input from the user, or difficulty in aiming the deflected damage.

Even some parriable strikes from higher tiers can’t really be "reflected" which suggests that strength plays a role in determining its limits.

 

[Randomuser3412]

And I used that same point to say that V1 simply can’t parry everything, whether due to strength or other factors and circumstances. Also given you more reasons why power does affect the arm’s limits.

Says "some common limitations." It doesn't have to apply to every usage of Attack Reflection. That's like complaining that Durability Negation negates durability. It's what the power does.
Saying V1 can't parry certain physical attacks because of their strength causes a lot more problems than it fixes. Namely being most of the attacks with blue flashes come from enemies far weaker than other enemies V1 can parry just fine. It's funny how you're so ready to accept the main gimmick of the Electric Railcannon (literally the first thing the game forces you to do with it) is a game mechanic, but blue flashes aren't.

 

[LittleGuy99]

Knight FRA

 

[Jerry59]

Says "some common limitations." It doesn't have to apply to every usage of Attack Reflection. That's like complaining that Durability Negation negates durability. It's what the power does.
Saying V1 can't parry certain physical attacks because of their strength causes a lot more problems than it fixes. Namely being most of the attacks with blue flashes come from enemies far weaker than other enemies V1 can parry just fine. It's funny how you're so ready to accept the main gimmick of the Electric Railcannon (literally the first thing the game forces you to do with it) is a game mechanic, but blue flashes aren't.

Flashes are canon thanks to 8-2 (at least for now I think they are, if not then too bad ig, not a big deal). But yeah you still haven’t addressed that most enemies’ attacks are blue flashes simply because of how they’re used (like the way the Mindflayer uses its beam or Streetcleaner propels fire), or for balancing purposes, or both. Pre-nerf Sisyphus in phase 2 had his attacks as blue flashes, for example.

And once again, you have Gabriel not getting flung when his finishers are parried, Minos Prime not getting launched into orbit when his dropkick is parried, and Sisyphus not getting stunned when his roundhouse is parried. Yet other heavy hitters below those tiers like the Leviathan and Minotaur can be.

This whole debate about the Feedbacker’s limitations is damn silly icl. We don’t assume attack reflection ignores tier gaps by default unless it’s actually shown to do so, similar to invulnerability I think? Meanwhile what V1 has shown is that it does have limits in both ways, circumstances and strength. Shit really couldn’t be clearer.

 

[Randomuser3412]

But yeah you still haven’t addressed that most enemies’ attacks are blue flashes simply because of how they’re used (like the way the Mindflayer uses its beam or Streetcleaner propels fire), or for balancing purposes, or both. Pre-nerf Sisyphus in phase 2 had his attacks as blue flashes, for example.

What is there to say about this? V1 can't parry fire or something? It's not relevant here anyway.

And once again, you have Gabriel not getting flung when his finishers are parried, Minos Prime not getting launched into orbit when his dropkick is parried, and Sisyphus not getting stunned when his roundhouse is parried. Yet other heavy hitters below those tiers like the Leviathan and Minotaur can be.

The attacks... still get parried. The Corpse of King Minos is the only guy who gets flung back violently when parried, likely just because he's so big and extremely skelatal.

We don’t assume attack reflection ignores tier gaps by default unless it’s actually shown to do so, similar to invulnerability I think?

Why not? It's legit just what the power does. It NOT working on tiers above itself depends on the mechanism (which isn't a problem here) or the attack being higher dimensional (still, not a problem here). Invulnerability just means you don't take damage at all. Basically, no one with a tier on your level of dimensionality can hurt you with physical damage. Otherwise, it'd be no different from durability, eh?

 

[Qurbonboev]

I think potency of V1 attack reflection should be handled elsewhere. Even if it does works against Knight, it's not reliable wincon in our case.

Does V1 have anything else to bridge gap in tiers? If not, this should be closed for stomp

 

[Randomuser3412]

I think potency of V1 attack reflection should be handled elsewhere. Even if it does works against Knight, it's not reliable wincon in our case.

What is there to discuss? It just works here, obviously.

Does V1 have anything else to bridge gap in tiers? If not, this should be closed for stomp

4 Electric Railcannons, which are currently accepted as duraneg.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

The Roaring Gerson Victim FRA

 

[AThe1412]

What is there to discuss? It just works here, obviously.

4 Electric Railcannons, which are currently accepted as duraneg.

Boomer Shooter/New Blood Interactive discussion thread

This thread is a discussion about the shooters of old, such as DOOM, Quake, Half-life, etc. and also the discussion of modern old-school FPS games that are most likely owned by new blood such as DUSK, AMID EVIL, ULTRAKILL. This thread's probably gonna go nowhere, but I wanna give it a shot if...

vsbattles.com

Pull up.

 

[Randomuser3412]

Boomer Shooter/New Blood Interactive discussion thread

This thread is a discussion about the shooters of old, such as DOOM, Quake, Half-life, etc. and also the discussion of modern old-school FPS games that are most likely owned by new blood such as DUSK, AMID EVIL, ULTRAKILL. This thread's probably gonna go nowhere, but I wanna give it a shot if...

vsbattles.com

Pull up.

...What?

 

[Jerry59]

What is there to say about this? V1 can't parry fire or something? It's not relevant here anyway.

It’s relevant because it means not everything can be parried and that’s a weakness of the Feedbacker, or it’s designed that way to keep the game balanced duh?

The attacks... still get parried. The Corpse of King Minos is the only guy who gets flung back violently when parried, likely just because he's so big and extremely skelatal.

They still get parried but manage to tough it out. CoKM getting flung is because he’s not on the same level as the Prime Souls and angels, being skyscraper-sized shouldn’t make him easier to fling (lol what). There's also have various points proving that Husks simply don’t scale that high in general, and even the dev has said so (from our beloved oregairu femboy profile V2 hater himself).

Why not? It's legit just what the power does. It NOT working on tiers above itself depends on the mechanism (which isn't a problem here) or the attack being higher dimensional (still, not a problem here). Invulnerability just means you don't take damage at all. Basically, no one with a tier on your level of dimensionality can hurt you with physical damage. Otherwise, it'd be no different from durability, eh?

…It is. You have one single statement saying it’s vector redirection, and then in-game you have several moments showing that said vector manip is limited.

 

[Randomuser3412]

It’s relevant because it means not everything can be parried and that’s a weakness of the Feedbacker, or it’s designed that way to keep the game balanced duh?

You're barking up the wrong tree here. This has nothing to do with the reflection of physical attacks. Also, you literally gave a valid counterargument to your own argument in your own message, what are you even saying here?

They still get parried but manage to tough it out. CoKM getting flung is because he’s not on the same level as the Prime Souls and angels, being skyscraper-sized shouldn’t make him easier to fling (lol what). There's also have various points proving that Husks simply don’t scale that high in general, and even the dev has said so (from our beloved oregairu femboy profile V2 hater himself).

...Sure? I'm not claiming parries one shot people or whatever, you're just using their own attack against them, which would hurt the Knight here. (Also, I brought up Minos's size because he appears to already have a hard time standing up and moving due to his state, and getting his own attack reflected seems to nearly knock him over because of how gangly he is)

 

[Qurbonboev]

4 Electric Railcannons, which are currently accepted as duraneg.

May I ask why exactly they would be able to tag Knight? (It's just 4 close straight lines)
(A bit of rhetorical question here by me)

 

[Randomuser3412]

May I ask why exactly they would be able to tag Knight? (It's just 4 close straight lines)
(A bit of rhetorical question here by me)

Speed is equalized and V1 has Superhuman Precision to such a degree it can fire the Railcannons at a coin, bouncing it off the coin and hitting a moving/flying target.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Speed is equalized and V1 has Superhuman Precision to such a degree it can fire the Railcannons at a coin, bouncing it off the coin and hitting a moving/flying target.

Ain't nobody disputing his precision. But we know from second vs V2 fight that attacks bounced from coins can be dodged.
And it's pretty easy to dodge attack that has same speed as you, and comes from 100 meters

 

[Randomuser3412]

Ain't nobody disputing his precision. But we know from second vs V2 fight that attacks bounced from coins can be dodged.
And it's pretty easy to dodge attack that has same speed as you, and comes from 100 meters

V2 just sucks
V1 already has the Railcannon and Revolver shots being a blitz-difference from it on its profile, which iirc would still stay with equalized speed.

 

[Jerry59]

You're barking up the wrong tree here. This has nothing to do with the reflection of physical attacks. Also, you literally gave a valid counterargument to your own argument in your own message, what are you even saying here?

I’d actually like to know how I’m contradicting myself there. And i'm bringing up these points to explain why Sentry kicks and the like are blue flashes so- they’re very much on point? I dunno man it kind of feels like you’re just spitballing.

...Sure? I'm not claiming parries one shot people or whatever, you're just using their own attack against them, which would hurt the Knight here.

Prime Souls are still closer to V1 than Roaring Knight is. If upscaling from the lower value is enough to prevent reflection then a gap of nearly 15x would just go right through the parry. That's what i meant.

 

[Randomuser3412]

Prime Souls are still closer to V1 than Roaring Knight is. If upscaling from the lower value is enough to prevent reflection then a gap of nearly 15x would just go right through the parry. That's what i meant.

Idk what you're talking about, man. The Prime Souls still get their attacks reflected (and, in Sisypus's case, completely negated), they just don't get sent flying back like the giants do.

 

[Jerry59]

Idk what you're talking about, man. The Prime Souls still get their attacks reflected (and, in Sisypus's case, completely negated), they just don't get sent flying back like the giants do.

Negation is the effect of power null. I could’ve explained it better tho- they do sorta get redirected but don’t get sent flying because of the strength gap (actually not sure if we should treat the extra damage thing after reflection as its own thing or not). Though tbh I doubt we’ll settle this here, so I will just say that what AThe meant above is that you should ask about this vector reflection stuff on the discussion thread.

 

[Randomuser3412]

they do sorta get redirected but don’t get sent flying because of the strength gap.

The giants are LITERALLY the only enemies that do gent sent flying solely because of the parry. And it's legit just for the cool factor. Unless we're saying that Swordsmachine, radiant Filth, Sisyphean Insurrections, Cerberus, and Ferrymen are stronger than the Levithan.

 

[Qurbonboev]

V2 just sucks
V1 already has the Railcannon and Revolver shots being a blitz-difference from it on its profile, which iirc would still stay with equalized speed.

Yes, Railcannon and Revolver would became blitz level faster than TRK. Realistically, 100% of time V1 would just blitz TRK with Railcannon. Despite the fact that normally TRK wouldn't face any problems at all in dodging this attack(FTL vs blitz upscale from MHS).
Which is a problem. Our speed equalization rules specifically outline that slower characters Ws through blitz level amps are invalid to add to profiles.

 

[Randomuser3412]

Yes, Railcannon and Revolver would became blitz level faster than TRK. Realistically, 100% of time V1 would just blitz TRK with Railcannon. Despite the fact that normally TRK wouldn't face any problems at all in dodging this attack(FTL vs blitz upscale from MHS).
Which is a problem. Our speed equalization rules specifically outline that slower characters Ws through blitz level amps are invalid to add to profiles.

Well, mismatch of the century it looks like. Probably should be asked to be closed, then.

 

[Jerry59]

The giants are LITERALLY the only enemies that do gent sent flying solely because of the parry. And it's legit just for the cool factor. Unless we're saying that Swordsmachine, radiant Filth, Sisyphean Insurrections, Cerberus, and Ferrymen are stronger than the Levithan.

Cerberus is a case where blue flashes are there for balancing purposes. Sisyphean Insurrectionist’s boulder can be reflected away and stuns it for a good amount of time. Radiant Filth shouldn’t even count, their HP gets increased enough by radiance to not be one-shotted by parries so their attack continuing to damage V1 is just game mechanic, they’re still 9-A regardless.

As for Swordsmachine and Ferryman- you’ve got a point ig and/or it might just be a small inconsistency? Swordsmachine still gets stunned for a decent amount of time before its rage amps so you can’t really say it wasn’t affected nearly as much. If anything that just supports the idea that parries can be bypassed.

 

[Randomuser3412]

Cerberus is a case where blue flashes are there for balancing purposes.

Cerberus's dash doesn't flash at all and it's not stunned by reflecting its apple throw.

If anything that just supports the idea that parries can be bypassed.

Again, there is no "bypassing parries" by not being stunned. The guy is STILL getting parried; he's still getting hit by his own attack. Regardless of the stun. Stunning is a byproduct of the character getting hit by their own attack. If anything, it only speaks to their endurance/durability relative to their own AP.