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Chaotic Honkai Verse Upgrade (1-A & L1-A)

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SuperNova55555 said:
Hi3 makes it clear that it’s just an analogy for some higher-dimensional structure which holds the worlds (ergo, medium).

But for HSR, it just has the Tree as the present and the physical universe.
Click to expand...
The tree in HSR is also analogy and theorectical. The whole explanation came from Zandar's theory. It's not a literal tree in HSR either.
If Otto is talking about analogy of the tree where it's a medium that carry many worlds, how the tree would still be the imaginary space which should be the origin of the tree?
 
SuperNova55555 said:
Which scan says that Imaginary Space birthed the Tree.
Click to expand...
That's your own words. You can't say it's just HSR tree as if HSR tree and HI3 tree are different things. We already went over about how zandar and otto theories are the same that describe the tree as a medium that carry many worlds.
And I’m not saying that HSR Tree grows from the SoQ. It grows from Imaginary Space, just like how Hi3 Universe grows from Hi3 Tree.
Click to expand...
Also according to your words, The tree is physical plane and the universe. Imaginary space is said to be the origin of the universe. So yeah.......
 
Weaver261 said:
That's your own words. You can't say it's just HSR tree as if HSR tree and HI3 tree are different things. We already went over about how zandar and otto theories are the same that describe the tree as a medium that carry many worlds.

Also according to your words, The tree is physical plane and the universe. Imaginary space is said to be the origin of the universe. So yeah.......
Click to expand...
You don’t get my point at allllllllllllll
 
Azertyhuuh said:
This is my advice regarding this topic and this work. I personally have experience with this type of series.

This work caps at Low 1-C, and all of its characters do not exceed planetary level, or at most solar system level, and with exaggeration, the strongest character could be considered galaxy level. As for the absolute strongest character in the entire work, they would be Low 1-C.

This is advice from someone who is familiar with this work and this type of series, with many years of experience—this is my stance.
Click to expand...
feels-the-aura-aura.png
 
What are the staff conclusions here so far in summary, and what do we currently need to do here? 🙏
 
Antvasima said:
What are the staff conclusions here so far in summary, and what do we currently need to do here? 🙏
Click to expand...
currently:

Reiner - agrees with 1-A yog
disagrees with L1A imaginary space/primordial sea

Viett - disagrees with l1A imaginary space/primordial sea
hasnt commented on yog (i think)
 
Okay. Thank you for the information. However, a summary of their reasonings would be appreciated as well. 🙏
 
Weaver261 said:
Huuu....I admit it. This is really chaotic and a mess. The fault is entirely mine.
Anyway, here is the summary for the staffs to evaluate and I hope nobody would try to drown this summary with their useless replies. I request you all.

Summary
----------
This is the accepted L1-A arguement before it was downgraded due to a mistranslation. Now, the mistranslation is resolved and L1-A should be back but the person who proposed the upgrade themselves said they changed their mind about L1-A and says it's no longer valid. And this is their reason. I hope staffs can evaluate whether L1-A is still valid or not since I can't say for sure. L1-A if accepted will only apply to Imaginary space and its residents. (edited - I also want to add up that Imaginary Singularity isn't 1D point but rather a point that has no dimensional information and dimensionless. It's where space itself was born. Idk how much of that will be relevant and usable but i'll drop it just in case)

Yog Sothoth Part
--------------------
This is simple. Yog Sothoth can create worlds from words and texts. And second line heavily indicates R>F where you (the person who reached to yog's realm) is looking the speaker through line of text establishing R>F. Yog Sothoth will be 1-A.


Chaos Part
------------
Chaos is the initial state of all things, it's nothingness and embodiment of everything.
Chaos is a reality created by Azathoth herself.
All things are born from Chaos as stated by Nyarlathotep
Metis, the goddess of wisdom's lore also stated the same thing again
It birthed the Universe which we called "Imaginary Tree" now.

In short, Chaos is the origin of everything and the void of nothingness with infinite possibilities. Since yin and yang exists in Honkai cosmology, Chaos would be similar to wuji as being an undifferentiated void where different individuals emerged from it and producing more complex informations.

Since Chaos is also the canvas where yog sothoth can bring forth world from words and texts, it serves as a medium for R>F which can produce anything that language can offer. Chaos also should be L1-A for that.

Staff Evaluations:
@Reiner04 seems to have no problem with 1-A Yog Sothoth but seem to disagree L1-A imaginary space and chaos (Although I would prefer re evaluation since things got messed up and this summary should be evaluated)
@Vietthai96 has no comment about 1-A Yog Sothoth and disagree with L1-A entirely (also this need re evaluation since things have changed a lot)

What needs to be discussed was discussed already in 14 pages before now. So I appriciately if you guys don't drown this summary with no new information replies. Thanks a lot
Click to expand...
Seems reasonable, I suppose my thoughts would probably be the same as Vietthai96. I can't really comment and not an expert on our 1-A policies, though been trying to read bits and pieces. But if Reiner and Vietthai both disagree with Imaginary Space and Chaos being L1-A, then I'll lean towards that. Neutral on Yog Sothoth until I see more context.
 
Thank you for helping out. 🙏❤️
 
Weaver261 said:
Huuu....I admit it. This is really chaotic and a mess. The fault is entirely mine.
Anyway, here is the summary for the staffs to evaluate and I hope nobody would try to drown this summary with their useless replies. I request you all.

Summary
----------
This is the accepted L1-A arguement before it was downgraded due to a mistranslation. Now, the mistranslation is resolved and L1-A should be back but the person who proposed the upgrade themselves said they changed their mind about L1-A and says it's no longer valid. And this is their reason. I hope staffs can evaluate whether L1-A is still valid or not since I can't say for sure. L1-A if accepted will only apply to Imaginary space and its residents. (edited - I also want to add up that Imaginary Singularity isn't 1D point but rather a point that has no dimensional information and dimensionless. It's where space itself was born. Idk how much of that will be relevant and usable but i'll drop it just in case)

Yog Sothoth Part
--------------------
This is simple. Yog Sothoth can create worlds from words and texts. And second line heavily indicates R>F where you (the person who reached to yog's realm) is looking the speaker through line of text establishing R>F. Yog Sothoth will be 1-A.


Chaos Part
------------
Chaos is the initial state of all things, it's nothingness and embodiment of everything.
Chaos is a reality created by Azathoth herself.
All things are born from Chaos as stated by Nyarlathotep
Metis, the goddess of wisdom's lore also stated the same thing again
It birthed the Universe which we called "Imaginary Tree" now.

In short, Chaos is the origin of everything and the void of nothingness with infinite possibilities. Since yin and yang exists in Honkai cosmology, Chaos would be similar to wuji as being an undifferentiated void where different individuals emerged from it and producing more complex informations.

Since Chaos is also the canvas where yog sothoth can bring forth world from words and texts, it serves as a medium for R>F which can produce anything that language can offer. Chaos also should be L1-A for that.

Staff Evaluations:
@Reiner04 seems to have no problem with 1-A Yog Sothoth but seem to disagree L1-A imaginary space and chaos (Although I would prefer re evaluation since things got messed up and this summary should be evaluated)
@Vietthai96 has no comment about 1-A Yog Sothoth and disagree with L1-A entirely (also this need re evaluation since things have changed a lot)

What needs to be discussed was discussed already in 14 pages before now. So I appriciately if you guys don't drown this summary with no new information replies. Thanks a lot
Click to expand...
for a summary id reply here for now unless weaver wants to change his. opposing side idrk their summary
 
Mbpoops said:
for a summary id reply here for now unless weaver wants to change his. opposing side idrk their summary
Click to expand...
I js wrote a short message below that and stuff. Same thing for other times the summary was asked... but the thread immediately derails every time I do lel

SuperNova55555 said:
Basically my fundamental point here:

What is being posited as L1A here (Imaginary Space) is actually used interchangeably with an explicitly dimensional structure, and thus, cannot be L1A by virtue of it, well, being dimensional. And as far as I know, the majority of people here seem to think this as well.
Click to expand...
^^^^^
 
I invite the staff members to read the current profile, which was accepted in this thread:

vsbattles.com

Fixing the GGZ Yog-Sothoth Profile (Additions and Downgrades) [Staff Votes: 3 - 0] [ACCEPTED]

Heya. [ Old Profile - New Profile ] Notable Changes: 1) Summary improved. 2) Yog’s tier is 1-C because there is currently no real basis for Low 1-A beyond forcing that rating onto her. The argument is the same as always: there is simply not enough evidence for 1-A. The only supposed “proof”...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com

All of the arguments for Yog’s 1-A rating have already been debunked to exhaustion.
 
You can theoretically have a “human appearance” with actual "three-dimensional magnitudes" while still being physically 1-A, but only if you operate within a dimensional framework that is completely superior and irreducible to the standard one, that is, a “dimensional” framework that is ontologically abstract and functions on 1-A levels (aka completely beyond material composition).

However, it is important to remember that Yog has absolutely no evidence of R>F beyond a single statement that is SELF-CONTRADICTORY with our standards.

Language frames the world, writing sets the rules, and thus space and time are framed outside of this. For example, you are looking at this line of text, just as I am looking at you through this line of text.
Click to expand...

If we take this literally, then we would be dealing with a situation in which Yog sees the real world as fiction, while the reader in the real world sees Yog as fiction. That is completely self-contradictory.

It is obvious that this is simply a fourth-wall break used to establish a method by which humans can reach Yog’s domain, not a literal R>F.

On top of that, it is evident that the White World is still subject to some form of space and time.

This is the world on the other side of the door. Here, time and space are at a halt; only wisdom endures.
Click to expand...

Language frames the world, writing sets the rules, and thus space and time are framed outside of this.
Click to expand...

Yog’s physical dimensions are simply the cherry on top.
 
Last edited:
Hecky2222 said:
Supposed to be 1-A character having 3 Dimensional size is most funniest shit I have ever seen
Click to expand...
Nowhere was it stated it's 3 dimensional size though? Surely it's not because of the height, etc? I mean, if this is kinda the logic we go with then 1-A characters are being nuked if they have this kind of description (which deadass doesn't even make sense, when Yog transcends descriptions).
ExcelsisBerny said:
You can theoretically have a “human appearance” with actual "three-dimensional magnitudes" while still being physically 1-A, but only if you operate within a dimensional framework that is completely superior and irreducible to the standard one, that is, a “dimensional” framework that is ontologically abstract and functions on 1-A levels (aka completely beyond material composition).

However, it is important to remember that Yog has absolutely no evidence of R>F beyond a single statement that is SELF-CONTRADICTORY with our standards.



If we take this literally, then we would be dealing with a situation in which Yog sees the real world as fiction, while the reader in the real world sees Yog as fiction. That is completely self-contradictory.

It is obvious that this is simply a fourth-wall break used to establish a method by which humans can reach Yog’s domain, not a literal R>F.

On top of that, it is evident that the White World is still subject to some form of space and time.





Yog’s physical dimensions are simply the cherry on top.
Click to expand...
I think you're misinterpreting this hard, Kizuna Entry 4 implies the Reader went to the bubble to even go to that place, which doesn't disqualify it (i.e 1-A powersource).

Don't know why we would take those things as literal when it's clear it's an analogy used (which still proves the superiority either way). We don't say these things are literal unless they're stated so when it's a clear analogy, and we don't say these things are metaphor unless they're stated so when it's clearly literal. There's a difference here.
 
Voidnether said:
I think you're misinterpreting this hard, Kizuna Entry 4 implies the Reader went to the bubble to even go to that place, which doesn't disqualify it (i.e 1-A powersource).
Click to expand...

????????????????

Voidnether said:
Don't know why we would take those things as literal when it's clear it's an analogy used (which still proves the superiority either way). We don't say these things are literal unless they're stated so when it's a clear analogy, and we don't say these things are metaphor unless they're stated so when it's clearly literal. There's a difference here.
Click to expand...

Okay so the 1-A is not valid then lmao.
 
Vietthai96 said:
Anyway, i still think that Possibly 1-A is still oke from Yog power of definition. But it is just me
Click to expand...

On what basis? “Possibly” is used when a result is uncertain and there is a real possibility that the rating is valid. What argument are you even using to appeal to a “possibly” here?
 
Mbpoops said:
Screenshot-2026-03-31-213453.png
Click to expand...
Most funny thing used for scaling I have ever seen ngl xD

Ghroth who has these sizes
B/W/H. Height. Weight
64/56/70. 132cm. 28kg
Click to expand...
Also this clearly explains that their bodies are just for show
Planets are just small sweets, no matter how many the servant offers, I can eat them all... Don't worry about gaining weight, after all, sweets are stored in another stomach.
Click to expand...
Also all outer gods have true forms
Nyarthalotep : Ha, want to see my true form? Do you perhaps long to become a mere drooling idiot?
Click to expand...
 
Weaver261 said:
Also this clearly explains that their bodies are just for show
Click to expand...

Weaver261 said:
Also all outer gods have true forms
Click to expand...

I’m genuinely getting pissed off right now, because I feel like you are deliberately IGNORING things we have already debated to complete exhaustion just to forcefully inflate the ratings.

Check Yog-Sothoth’s current profile.

It is important to keep in mind that the descriptions employing the concepts of the “nameless Dao” and “Nirvana” refer to the character’s main body, the one normally seen in her biography, as well as to the plane of existence in which it resides, namely her “Heaven,” beyond the Gate and beyond all boundaries of the material realm. The confusion surrounding the existence of a “true form” that is transcendental in relation to the others arises from a misinterpreted statement taken from the profile of her “Aforgomon” avatar.
Click to expand...

The avatars used by Yog are simply different bodies that share the same ontological nature. Aforgomon is an avatar and represents Yog-Sothoth’s dark side, and both have the same size and overall an almost identical appearance (with different clothes ofc). The same goes for White Blasphemous Abyss.

Can we avoid having to debate something that has ALREADY BEEN ACCEPTED into infinity?
 
ExcelsisBerny said:
Check Yog-Sothoth’s current profile
Click to expand...
That and that has nothing to do with each other. What are u even saying?? If I wanted to argue about Yog avatar, I would have brought up that scan

Nyarthalotep scan talks about them having true forms beyond human comprehension that they will become just a vegetable just from seeing it. Thus disproving the argument of outer gods having three dimensional sizes that human can recognize.
 
Weaver261 said:
That and that has nothing to do with each other. What are u even saying?? If I wanted to argue about Yog avatar, I would have brought up that scan
Click to expand...

YOG'S​

TRUE BODY​

IS​

THE ONE​

WE​

SEE​

IN​

HER BIOGRAPHY. ​

IT​

IS ​

NOT ​

AN AVATAR.​


Weaver261 said:
Nyarthalotep scan talks about them having true forms beyond human comprehension that they will become just a vegetable just from seeing it.
Click to expand...

It is simply a reference to the fact that Nyarlathotep is called the god of a thousand forms in the original myths. We know absolutely nothing about her "true form", and inducing madness is not necessarily proof of anything whatsoever regarding the character’s ontological level (so it could be that all of her forms are 3D in existence as well).

Besides, Nyarlathotep is speaking only about herself, not about ALL the Outer Gods.

It is NOT the same case as Yog-Sothoth.
 
ExcelsisBerny said:

YOG'S​

TRUE BODY​

IS​

THE ONE​

WE​

SEE​

IN​

HER BIOGRAPHY. ​

IT​

IS ​

NOT ​

AN AVATAR.​




It is simply a reference to the fact that Nyarlathotep is called the god of a thousand forms in the original myths. We know absolutely nothing about her "true form", and inducing madness is not necessarily proof of anything whatsoever regarding the character’s ontological level (so it could be that all of her forms are 3D in existence as well).

Besides, Nyarlathotep is speaking only about herself, not about ALL the Outer Gods.

It is NOT the same case as Yog-Sothoth.
Click to expand...
Its true form leaves only a ray of dazzling brilliance.
Click to expand...
 
I'm again lost track of what is happening, anyway the "avatar" thing had been debunked to death so we can stop at that
 
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