Mbpoops
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Ik but its like a sleeper agent anytime i see hilbert space
I blame hsr’s galaxies
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Chaotic Honkai Verse Upgrade (1-A & L1-A)
- Thread starter Weaver261
- Start date
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Brother I told you to make it a staff crt
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?????
Anyway, i again already stated can't see Low 1-A from the Chaos stuff. You can be the origin of space and other stuffs without being Low 1-A, the infinite possibilities isn't even relevant to the discussion, literally
No, this is a bad, you need an explicit mention of wuji and it being undifferentiated void rather than assumption
This thing is just 11D SoQ
The scan didn't say what you say, it is talking about Divine power over description and definition, not some F > F canvas like DC The Overvoid
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totally lost what's mods votes looking like
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Anyway, no, it isn't, just that back in his old Low 1-A thread i was being lenient and agreed with some of his logic thus i compromised with a Possibly Low 1-A rating for IS
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This one suffers since we have to sort-of js concede that IS is dimensional now, since Hoyo is jobbing again and using it interchangeably with IT which is also explicitly dimensional.
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Which staff members have commented in this thread so far, and which other staff members helped out in previous threads about this topic, so I can ping them and ask them what they think about this?
Weaver261
He/Him- 1,348
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- Thread starter
- #573
@Reiner04 and @Vietthai96 were in this thread. Votes are as in the summary.Which staff members have commented in this thread so far, and which other staff members helped out in previous threads about this topic, so I can ping them and ask them what they think about this?
Previously, these staffs were involved in downgrade and upgrade threads regarding topics in this crt.
@Planck69 @Qawsedf234 @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless @Emirp sumitpo @DarkDragonMedeus @ActuallySpaceMan42 @Ultima_Reality
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Which staff members have commented in this thread so far, and which other staff members helped out in previous threads about this topic, so I can ping them and ask them what they think about this?
@Reiner04 @Vietthai96 @Planck69 @Qawsedf234 @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless @Emirp sumitpo @DarkDragonMedeus @ActuallySpaceMan42 @Ultima_Reality
Your help would be appreciated here.
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Its been long since i commented on this thread and have forgotten alot of things, but i do remember disagreeing with Low 1-A for SOQ, and disagreed with treating chaos same as Sea of Quanta. Regarding YOG, i am fine with 1-A for the following reason i stated:@Reiner04 @Vietthai96 @Planck69 @Qawsedf234 @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless @Emirp sumitpo @DarkDragonMedeus @ActuallySpaceMan42 @Ultima_Reality
Your help would be appreciated here.
Regarding Low 1-A for chaos, i am neutral since i am not sure regarding superiority. And i do remember Nova having some issues regarding chaos transcending/lacking time and space.
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That’s one of the reasons, but another main issue is that contextually speaking, Chaos can only be Imaginary Space (since that’s the only place where the universe could’ve been born from).
And something else that we’ve generally concluded here is that Imaginary Space is almost functionally the same as the higher-dimensional part of the Imaginary Tree. So it also can’t be L1A by virtue of that.
KingOfDarknessBelow
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Bump
KingOfDarknessBelow
He/Him- 419
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Bump of doom
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Can I get a TLDR summary here?
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This is the summary
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Basically my fundamental point here:
What is being posited as L1A here (Imaginary Space) is actually used interchangeably with an explicitly dimensional structure, and thus, cannot be L1A by virtue of it, well, being dimensional. And as far as I know, the majority of people here seem to think this as well.
Weaver261
He/Him- 1,348
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- #583
The dimensional structure in question here is Imaginary Tree and L1A Imaginary Space is the origin of this tree. The tree isn't a concrete structure but just an analogy of how MWI works in cosmology. I don't know how that resolves anything but just in case.
Also this
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Yes but it’s specifically a “higher-dimensional” structure. We’re told this. We’re also told multiple times that SoQ is 11-D, of which it stands in rivalry with.
Also for this:
This is wrong. It’s only the origin of the universe, so real space. In fact, both the Space and the Tree are the origins of the same thing (universe, life, laws etc.). They’re functionally the same thing.
That’s the Singularity, which isn’t Imaginary Space itself, but rather a point inside of it.
Weaver261
He/Him- 1,348
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- Thread starter
- #585
If something is dubbed "higher dimensional" and automatically qualify for higher spatial dimension, we would have Wuwa remenant as L1-C already. The tree is nothing more than an analogy to explain time in honkai cosmology.
I mean..... Not that it matters much
I mean singularity is where space is born anyway. Also imaginary singularity isn't even a one dimensional point but rather a dimensionless point. Dunno how that works tho.
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The Tree is literally just a higher cardinality. And explaining time can use higher-dimensional concepts. That’s not unheard of, at all.
There’s a reason the Tree is always analogized with higher dimensionality than beyond dimensionality. Also doesn’t explain why it’s in rivalry with an 11-dimensional space.
Weaver261
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- #587
I am not also saying tree is beyond dimensionality. Tree is just a collection of 4D space times from MWI. But Imaginary space and chaos are origin of that tree that gave birth to many worlds. Hi3 made it confusing by seperating the tree from reality 4D which go against other proofs. I think it would make sense if we just consider imaginary space as zenith of the tree.
About 11D SoQ rivalry, it's just the process of leaf worlds falling into the sea. The word "Rivalry" is just a flowery word to sum it up. I don't think it means much.
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What proofs? The tree has always been explicitly separate from base 4D reality, when the dimensional crack in reality is made in Nagazora it threatens to destroy the world.
I also don't think it'd make sense if we consider imaginary space as the zenith. Durandal has been there and no superiority over the tree is stated. HoV is able to open up pathways to Imaginary Space and all we see is it acting as a pathway between worlds.
I also don't think it's flowery at all. The SoQ feeds from the energy of the worlds dropped into it by the Tree. Sa explicitly uses bubble worlds collapsing to gain power in Part 1.5. Why wouldn't the sea also harness that energy to expand and devour more of the tree? The Tree drinks from the SoQ to fuel its growth and create worlds, likely taking data from the Sea of Data (2nd name for the SoQ in hi3) to make new worlds with this data.
Also what's your proof that it IS flowery language?
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That’s on Hi3 then. If a verse can’t be consistent, so be it. But as far as we’re concerned, it treats the Tree as the Space itself.
The Tree literally grows by absorbing from the Sea, no? How does that work if one is L1A and the other 11D? Also, this doesn’t exclude the fact that they’re contiguous entities, which is impossible if one is so big it would envelop the other.
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They're rivals but the Sea is explicitly smaller. Something can be rivals in both feature and action while not being physically the same size imo. There's proof (Eins moon arc statements) the tree is larger and yet they're still compared to be rivals.
Mbpoops
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Im pretty sure the only other time the tree hasnt been referenced to a higher dimensional space was hsr’s imaginary tree theory which we can say THAT theory is based on real space (aeons n such) but hi3 has shown and stated explicitly that the tree is higher dimensional, i mean otto literally ascended to it lmao
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I know they aren’t necessitated to be physically the same, but my point is moreso a narrative case. You’d assume things that are “rivals” would be similar in scope in some way, and having one be implicitly bigger would be extremely off especially since they’re supposed to represent halves of the universe and whatnot. Especially also since they share similar differences between themselves and the bubble/leaf worlds and how the latter are literally juxtaposed to each other as well.
It would just he awfully strange if they were different.
Are these not about the difference of Earth and the entire Tree? Or is it implicitly talking about SoQ or sum
Weaver261
He/Him- 1,348
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- #593
That's different from what's described in HSR though. The tree grows from primordial chaos and nurtured by Time and not SoQ. SoQ didn't even have time before it made contacts with the worlds on the tree.
I am saying that tree is in rivalry with the sea for sure but it's only the dimensional part which doesn't include imaginary space or primordial chaos. If you say the tree grows from absorbing from the sea, that makes the tree seperated from the primordial chaos. No?
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The Tree in HSR is only Real Space tho lol. Like explicitly only the physical world.
What I said above. Only Real Space (Proper World) grows from the Tree/Chaos or wtvr. But the two structures SoQ and IT siphon each other.
So it’s like SoQ = IT/IS/Chaos > Real Space
Mbpoops
He/Him- 8,437
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Sigh… its always “B-but hsr said” starting to see a lot of the inconsistancies come from hsr. Hsr hasnt even tackled higher dimensional structures hell they havent even achknowledged the soq outside of a random item. Its obvious that hsr’s imaginary tree theory isnt about the actual higher dimensional tree just the physical universe. We see otto ascend to the imaginary tree blatantly and even create his own imaginary space and become an infinite being, the second divine key allows otto and su to have this knowledge.
What does this even mean?
Mbpoops
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Chaos is likely just imaginary space anyway since imaginary space is chaotic and random
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He’s saying the Tree in HSR grows from Primordial Chaos, but he’s forgetting that HSR and Hi3 contradict each other and that HSR’s Tree refers only to the physical universe.
Mbpoops
He/Him- 8,437
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“B-but hsr said”!
Weaver261
He/Him- 1,348
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- #599
The whole thing about SoQ and IT siphoning each other is all about proper worlds falling into the sea due to failing to defeat honkai. So how is imaginary space is involved here?
It concludes to the same result as HSR analogy. The whole thing about the tree drinking from the sea came from Otto's dialogue which is almost identical with Zandar's theory. And no imaginary space was involved.
Since imaginary space/chaos is the origin of the tree both in HSR and Hi3, the tree that's in rivalry with the sea should only be real space part. no? HSR made it clear that primordial chaos is the structure that gave birth to the tree and not the tree. Imaginary space is also the origin of universe, rather than the tree itself. If we take Otto's word at face value about Tree and Sea being alone in the universe, imaginary space/chaos is a seperated structure from both the tree and the sea.
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And in Hi3 the tree is said to grow from the SoQ. I believe Imaginary Space too.
Proof? All we know is the sea's time is messy. Not that it inherited it from the tree or the worlds entering it.
'Its only the dimensional part' ignores a hell of a lot from Hi3. I'm going to be honest, this doesn't look like it's going to pass anyway. You've had to refine and continuously redefine your argument to the point where it's become messy and a nightmare to track.
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