Review of Instant Death Part 2

[Azertyhuuh]

Hello everyone, this thread will be very simple, and I ask that you stick to the topic. I do not want comments that are unrelated to the subject.

Spoiler: Reiner04 statement about the Abyss.

This is @Reiner04 response to @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless ’s argument in the previous discussion about the Abyss ↓

Actually, after reading through the scans carefully, I think an Abyss being Universal size should be fine. Although the text states he can only appear where the two dimensions intersect, it seems these intersection points are continous and exist across the entire Celestial Foundation since he can travel freely between the dimensions and can go almost anywhere, it suggests that while these two planes exist parallel to each other (since it is accessible from nearly everywhere), the free movement is only possible through certain points (intersection points), which, even if are continous and exist almost everywhere, aren't present exactly at all places. They likely intersect at enough points to make free movement feasible from nearly any location but not that they intersect at every point. Something like this img:

In addition to this, being referred to as 'alternate' or 'parallel' realities is generally considered a strong indication that they are complete universes, provided the context supports it per our standards. And since the term 'dimensions' is being used here to refer to either a dimensional axis otherwise universe itself, I believe this can be used as further supporting evidence for a Universal size. The standard i am referring to:

• Being labeled as "Entire Alternate Realities" generally indicates them being called universes, but the context and semantics should preferably be specified.

Abyss has been called Alternate dimension:

Spoiler: The Sea is 1-C (6D).

The Sea is currently classified as Low 1-C due to containing a five-dimensional structure within it, and it is infinite.

The Sea also possesses a temporal dimension, as the Celestial Record Eaters have reversed time within the Sea. These beings live inside the Sea, which proves that it has its own temporal dimension, making it 6D (1-C).

Conclusion:​

The Abyss: Low 1-C
The Sea: 1-C (6D)
If it is accepted that the Sea is six-dimensional, then it will be:
Higher Universes: 7D
Final Group: 7D
The End: 7D

---

Agree: Reiner04 (The Abyss: Low 1-C)

Disagree:
Neutral:

 

[Hecky2222]

What is point of reposting arguments when almost all of them got nuked in your previous thread? I remember Reiner told me him deleting his own interpretation for reason. Though can't recall it.

I can see information manipulation though I would wait UMR for better explanation(since he wanted to make better CRT)

 

[AlexSamDen]

Spoiler: Reiner04 statement about the Abyss.

This is @Reiner04 response to @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless ’s argument in the previous discussion about the Abyss ↓

Actually, after reading through the scans carefully, I think an Abyss being Universal size should be fine. Although the text states he can only appear where the two dimensions intersect, it seems these intersection points are continous and exist across the entire Celestial Foundation since he can travel freely between the dimensions and can go almost anywhere, it suggests that while these two planes exist parallel to each other (since it is accessible from nearly everywhere), the free movement is only possible through certain points (intersection points), which, even if are continous and exist almost everywhere, aren't present exactly at all places. They likely intersect at enough points to make free movement feasible from nearly any location but not that they intersect at every point. Something like this img:

I have some possible comments regarding this, but I'll hold them due to needing rest from exams

Spoiler: The Celestial Foundation: 2B.

This has already been approved previously, so there is no need to open another thread, as the arguments are the same after reviewing the discussion.

Thread for upgrading the Celestial Foundations to 2B

You cannot simply link the upgrade thread, you also need to address the downgrade one

Spoiler: Addition of Information Manipulation (Type 2).

Here we have the World Core, which is the foundation of the entire world and the source of all information about the world. It is called the World Core and exists in a layer completely separate from the world, and the information of the world can be manipulated and everything related to the world can be changed from this core.

So, anyone getting this or no?
You ideally need to list them

Spoiler: The Sea is 1-C (7D).

The Sea is an infinite space that contains a countless, unquantifiable number of Celestial Foundations, with reasonable distances between them, arranged within a kind of abstract hierarchical structure. It also contains the Abyss, which is a five-dimensional realm that satisfies the Low 1-C scale. Each Celestial Foundation is a 2-B structure, and there are also infinitely large Foundations. The Sea containing all of these structures necessitates an additional spatial dimension in order to encompass them, especially considering that the distances between these structures are extremely vast despite their uncountable number, and that there are even infinitely large Foundations. This demonstrates that the Sea is capable of containing an infinite number of such structures while still maintaining separation between them, since it is itself an infinite space. Therefore, no matter how large their number is, it is not an issue for the Sea, and it satisfies the required size due to its infinity. Accordingly, with this added spatial dimension, it would be 6D.

Furthermore, the Sea also contains the Abyss (Low 1-C), which proves that it is capable of containing five-dimensional structures within itself, even infinitely so. The scale of the Abyss within the Sea is cosmic, as it encompasses multiple Celestial Foundations, and the Sea is capable of containing structures of 2-B scale, infinitely large ones, and still maintaining vast distances between them. Therefore, the Sea can contain an infinite number of five-dimensional structures like the Abyss because it is an infinite space and has demonstrated the capacity to contain higher-dimensional constructs.

Additionally, the Sea also possesses a temporal dimension, as the Celestial Record Eaters utilize time within the Sea itself. Since they exist within it, they can reverse time, see the future, or travel backward in time within the Sea. This demonstrates that the Sea has a temporal dimension as well, which would make it 7D.

Unsure in regards to the temporal dimension, will need to wait the same period as the abyss stuff

However, the Sea containing an infinite 5D structure and a bunch of 4D ones does not neccesitate the existence of an additional spatial axis
A great example of this would be the 2-C tier. It is a 4D structure that contains other 4D structures, even infinite ones

Same is applicable here, the Sea can simply be a bigger 5D structure

Higher Universes: 1-C (8D)
Final Set: 1-C (8D)

Where is this coming from btw?
Nothing mentions it in the thread itself

 

[Azertyhuuh]

What is point of reposting arguments when almost all of them got nuked in your previous thread? I remember Reiner told me him deleting his own interpretation for reason. Though can't recall it.

I can see information manipulation though I would wait UMR for better explanation(since he wanted to make better CRT)

Reiner deleted his explanation because the thread reached 16 pages, and he said that he deleted his comment and would leave it for another topic since this thread reached 16 pages. He actually told me this a few hours ago.

 

[Hecky2222]

Reiner deleted his explanation because the thread reached 16 pages, and he said that he deleted his comment and would leave it for another topic since this thread reached 16 pages.

Sure ig

 

[Hecky2222]

Sea 7-D is badly justified

It would be 6-D instead, Alex already covered it gud. Containing Low 1-C in your space doesn't mean +1 Dimensional. Qaw literally stated it in your previous CRT.

So if somehow Reiner's assumption gets approved

Abyss Low 1-C
Sea 6-D
Higher Universes 7-D
Final Set: 7-D

 

[Azertyhuuh]

I have some possible comments regarding this, but I'll hold them due to needing rest from exams

You cannot simply link the upgrade thread, you also need to address the downgrade one

So, anyone getting this or no?
You ideally need to list them

Unsure in regards to the temporal dimension, will need to wait the same period as the abyss stuff

However, the Sea containing an infinite 5D structure and a bunch of 4D ones does not neccesitate the existence of an additional spatial axis
A great example of this would be the 2-C tier. It is a 4D structure that contains other 4D structures, even infinite ones

Same is applicable here, the Sea can simply be a bigger 5D structure

Where is this coming from btw?
Nothing mentions it in the thread itself

Away from the topic and this comment, I want your presence here to be for contributing with good intentions, not just for opposing and overloading the discussion. I’m not saying you don’t have the right to oppose, but just be fair, because I feel there’s a misunderstanding between me, you, and the Tensura fans here, and that isn’t good. Personally, I’m a big fan of Tensura’s work and I’m ready to contribute to it, and I would have done so with you, but I thought it would be better not to bother you. I didn’t want to open topics about Tensura to avoid messing anything up, so I left it to you. That’s why right now I’m focusing on promoting the “Immediate Death” work, because it’s the only project I can contribute to at the moment, it’s abandoned, and I can also gain experience through trying to promote it.

In short, this comment is to clear up the misunderstanding between me, you, and the Tensura fans. It’s true that I agreed with that person who reported you, but I agreed with a specific point, not with banning you or other fans, but with the attacks happening in threads purely for opposition purposes. Others also complained, so it’s not just a personal issue with me, it’s a collective problem. Here, I agreed with him on that point. Also, I did not agree with your ban—that was the staff’s decision, not mine—and I’m not happy about that ban or those things. I don’t even know you. So I ask that your contributions to this thread come only from goodwill and respect. Let’s keep those issues aside, and after the topic concludes, we can discuss and reconcile, and I will also reconcile with all Tensura fans. But for now, let’s discuss everything with full sincerity.

 

[Ultimuru]

Agree with IM2

 

[AlexSamDen]

Away from the topic and this comment, I want your presence here to be for contributing with good intentions, not just for opposing and overloading the discussion. I’m not saying you don’t have the right to oppose, but just be fair, because I feel there’s a misunderstanding between me, you, and the Tensura fans here, and that isn’t good. Personally, I’m a big fan of Tensura’s work and I’m ready to contribute to it, and I would have done so with you, but I thought it would be better not to bother you. I didn’t want to open topics about Tensura to avoid messing anything up, so I left it to you. That’s why right now I’m focusing on promoting the “Immediate Death” work, because it’s the only project I can contribute to at the moment, it’s abandoned, and I can also gain experience through trying to promote it.

In short, this comment is to clear up the misunderstanding between me, you, and the Tensura fans. It’s true that I agreed with that person who reported you, but I agreed with a specific point, not with banning you or other fans, but with the attacks happening in threads purely for opposition purposes. Others also complained, so it’s not just a personal issue with me, it’s a collective problem. Here, I agreed with him on that point. Also, I did not agree with your ban—that was the staff’s decision, not mine—and I’m not happy about that ban or those things. I don’t even know you. So I ask that your contributions to this thread come only from goodwill and respect. Let’s keep those issues aside, and after the topic concludes, we can discuss and reconcile, and I will also reconcile with all Tensura fans. But for now, let’s discuss everything with full sincerity.

I don't hold a grudge against anyone participating there, you included
I'm not a person who holds them for long

You can be sure of that

My participation in threads always reflects my own stance based on my knowledge. If I think that I can't contribute or won't be able to contribute neutrally, I simply won't comment on the thread

 

[Robo432343]

However, the Sea containing an infinite 5D structure and a bunch of 4D ones does not neccesitate the existence of an additional spatial axis
A great example of this would be the 2-C tier. It is a 4D structure that contains other 4D structures, even infinite ones

Same is applicable here, the Sea can simply be a bigger 5D structure

Actually, it is still being debated if a structure being infinite in size and containing an infinite 5-D structure warrants a higher tier

Standard Clarification: Size of Higher Dimensional World/Universe/Realm

This thread is intended to clarify the standard regarding the size of higher-dimensional realms/dimensions (or Universes which has been stated to be 5D) that has explicit size statements e.g., "infinite," "endless," or "continuously expanding" or incase of Universe, just simply being a...

vsbattles.com

But in this case, the sea is infinite size, contains a 5-D structure (the abyss) and also has its own time dimension so i'm not really sure

 

[Aolphl]

Agree with the downgrade

 

[AlexSamDen]

Actually, it is still being debated if a structure being infinite in size and containing an infinite 5-D structure warrants a higher tier

Standard Clarification: Size of Higher Dimensional World/Universe/Realm

This thread is intended to clarify the standard regarding the size of higher-dimensional realms/dimensions (or Universes which has been stated to be 5D) that has explicit size statements e.g., "infinite," "endless," or "continuously expanding" or incase of Universe, just simply being a...

vsbattles.com

The Staff Thread is about a slightly different matter: how to interpret statements like "this structure is 5D"
This doesn't concern the "containment" issue

But in this case, the sea is infinite size, contains a 5-D structure (the abyss) and also has its own time dimension so i'm not really sure

As of right now, I'm neutral on the time dimension thingy, since I can't properly assess it
But my stance on the spatial one is certain

 

[sukuna171]

2-B is pretty obvious for CF.

Spoiler

Worlds existed within Celestial Foundations, and these Foundations
existed within the “sea.” The sea was enormous, containing countless such
Foundations, but it was not hard to imagine the existence of worlds outside
of it.

Spoiler

“Your strength stems from connecting to yourself in numerous parallel worlds, does it not? That makes your power next to infinite. Even if you died
here, that would be like no more than losing a single hair. I was able to
understand that much, so I killed you in all of those parallel worlds as well.”
“No way. How is that even possible?”
“It is something you are capable of, so how hard is it to believe there are
others with the ability to operate across dimensions? For a god, such strength
is expected. Conflict between gods necessitates the ability to search for your
opponent’s backups and erase them all at once.”

Spoiler

“This isn’t your Random Walk. That just sends your soul to a parallel world
with different possibilities. What happened this time is a much bigger deal. It
was like the whole world was rewound or something.”

Spoiler

It was only speculation based on what Jolt had heard and witnessed so far,
but Darian’s ability to go back in time only activated after his death, so it
served as a final desperate gambit. It was something like sending his soul
back in time, so whatever changes he made back then wouldn’t affect the
present, as if he were branching off into an entirely different timeline. Darian
himself would be able to do things over, but that wouldn’t help the rest of
them now.

 

[Reiner04]

The following should also be added in the OP for Abyss size:

In addition to this, being referred to as 'alternate' or 'parallel' realities is generally considered a strong indication that they are complete universes, provided the context supports it per our standards. And since the term 'dimensions' is being used here to refer to either a dimensional axis otherwise universe itself, I believe this can be used as further supporting evidence for a Universal size. The standard i am referring to:

• Being labeled as "Entire Alternate Realities" generally indicates them being called universes, but the context and semantics should preferably be specified.

I am fine with Abyss being size of CF, for now.. Though, I will wait for what UMR has to say regarding this and other arguements in the OP before i give my concrete vote.

 

[Hjdjdhf]

This has already been approved previously, so there is no need to open another thread, as the arguments are the same after reviewing the discussion.

Thread for upgrading the Celestial Foundations to 2B

If this counts, we don't need to discuss further; this post has already provided the result.
Celestial Foundation: L2C
The Sea: Low 1-C
Higher Universes: 1-C (6D)
Final Set: 1-C (6D)

 

[Hjdjdhf]

Worlds existed within Celestial Foundations, and these Foundations
existed within the “sea.” The sea was enormous, containing countless such
Foundations, but it was not hard to imagine the existence of worlds outside
of it.

Relying solely on these is meaningless. "World" is a term that's used too commonly—planets and the universe are also referred to as worlds.

「全人口の五割ぐらいが死んじゃってるよ。いやぁまさかここまで振り切った行動に出るとは思ってなかったよ。僕とか他の女神に復讐するかなとか、その過程でかなりの人が死ぬかもとかは思ってたんだけど、まさかただ殺戮を繰り広げるとはなぁ……」
「五割といっても主要都市が軒並み壊滅してるから、ほとんど世界が滅んだようなものかな？」
「それにあの子が放った光線が星の中心を貫いちゃってて、崩壊寸前だよ」——Instant Death Volume 11 Chapter 22

ならば別の次元を、並行世界を、別の宇宙を観ようとしたが、それも叶わなかった。観ようとした先にあるのも虚無だったのだ——Instant Death Volume 11 Chapter 21

Please forgive me, I don't have the English version, only the original Japanese, but using machine translation should still make the meaning understandable.

In Chapter 22, it's that the destruction of a major city equals the destruction of the world, and that the light pierces through the center of the planet. In Chapter 21, it's that the world and the universe are equated (and the "Celestial Foundation" is also called the universe).

A special note: the world inside the Celestial Foundation is equivalent to the other worlds mentioned in your references, or equivalent to the universe itself.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

If this counts, we don't need to discuss further; this post has already provided the result.
Celestial Foundation: L2C
The Sea: Low 1-C
Higher Universes: 1-C (6D)
Final Set: 1-C (6D)

This discussion has no relation to what I have currently presented in this thread. The previous discussion was closed because it reached page 16, and not everything in it was addressed. This thread is a continuation of the previous one, with some additional points included as well.
Also, these superficial comments only weigh down the discussion, so I kindly ask you to avoid them.

Relying solely on these is meaningless. "World" is a term that's used too commonly—planets and the universe are also referred to as worlds.



Please forgive me, I don't have the English version, only the original Japanese, but using machine translation should still make the meaning understandable.

In Chapter 22, it's that the destruction of a major city equals the destruction of the world, and that the light pierces through the center of the planet. In Chapter 21, it's that the world and the universe are equated (and the "Celestial Foundation" is also called the universe).

A special note: the world inside the Celestial Foundation is equivalent to the other worlds mentioned in your references, or equivalent to the universe itself.

This is completely incorrect. The Celestial Foundation is the foundation of the entire world—one could even say it is the world itself. It is the base upon which the entire world is established, and it consists of universes, as stated in the novel. So frankly, you haven’t changed anything.

Moreover, the Celestial Foundation can contain multiple timelines within it, each with different possibilities, and it can also encompass a near-infinite number of them.

The use of machine translation here is strictly prohibited and entirely unacceptable. I’m not exactly sure what you are trying to say with all of this, but I do know one thing: the matter regarding the Celestial Foundation has already been approved before, and the evidence is clearly in front of you. Also, if you are here only to oppose, that is not good—but you will not be able to change anything. And remember my name well, and my image as well.

 

[Cipher72]

Also, if you are here only to oppose, that is not good—but you will not be able to change anything. And remember my name well, and my image as well.

Tone it down, be respectful. Everyone has the right to participate in the thread. Attack the arguments and the logic presented not the person.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Tone it down, be respectful. Everyone has the right to participate in the thread. Attack the arguments and the logic presented not the person.

No, that’s not the case. Some comments may come across as harsh or somewhat aggressive, and this is because of the English translation, since my native language is completely different from English. That’s why some comments appear this way.

 

[Cipher72]

Please forgive me, I don't have the English version, only the original Japanese, but using machine translation should still make the meaning understandable.

You can use the official translation and attach the raw japanese text but since you don't have that this is fine.

Instant Death Volume 11 Chapter 21

Instant Death Volume 11 Chapter 22

On another note I tried searching in Volume 11 but I couldn't find this.
Can you name the chapter is possible thx.

 

[Hecky2222]

No, that’s not the case. Some comments may come across as harsh or somewhat aggressive

Idk what translation you use to get users comments there as "agressive and harsh". Seems like your translation app issue.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

You can use the official translation and attach the raw japanese text but since you don't have that this is fine.


On another note I tried searching in Volume 11 but I couldn't find this.
Can you name the chapter is possible thx.

I don’t understand what these comments have to do with the topic. I said in the topic that everyone should adhere to it.

 

[Hecky2222]

I don’t understand what these comments have to do with the topic.

Ngl only off-topic comments come from you. Raws and OTL pretty important for context. So please stop derailing your own thread to prevent 16 pages like other CRT

 

[Azertyhuuh]

All of this is happening while I’m the only supporter of this work, and I have all these opponents against me—completely alone. Everyone withholds from me and envies me, meaning it’s just me. The problem is that I wish well for all of them and their works, whether it’s Tensura or others. I have never withheld from anyone.

Every topic that others open, when I enter it, I always see words like: “That makes sense,” “Seems good,” “I agree,” “It’s clear”… and all of this comes from supporters and members. True, there are also opponents at the same time, but you will never be alone. Any topic I open, no matter what it is, no one agrees with it. Since I arrived here, not even in my dreams has a member said “I agree,” and that’s good. I have reached this stage here thanks to the fairness and logic of the staff, and with difficulty as well. Without the staff and their fairness, nothing would have been promoted successfully if it were left to you, because you object no matter the topic, no matter what it is. If the members alone voted, no topic would ever have been approved. That’s why I understood why only staff votes matter.

This is a personal comment just so people know that I don’t withhold from anyone and I wish good for everyone.

 

[Ultimuru]

And remember my name well, and my image as well.

Aura

 

[sukuna171]

You can use the official translation and attach the raw japanese text but since you don't have that this is fine.


On another note I tried searching in Volume 11 but I couldn't find this.
Can you name the chapter is possible thx.

additional context for the scan they shared

Spoiler

“We dated for a bit a long time ago. That’s a secret, though. I don’t want
everyone else getting jealous. Man, I figured things would be messy when
she woke up, but this is terrible.” The information on the display in front of
them changed, showing the state of the entire world rather than just Belm.
“Half the population is dead. I never expected she’d do something like this. I
figured a lot of people would get killed when she tried to take revenge on me
or the goddesses, but I didn’t expect a massacre like this...”
“Even if it’s only half the population, all the major cities have been
destroyed, so the world is basically over, right?” Van said.
“And that beam of light she fired went right through the core of the planet,
so the whole thing will probably fall apart soon.”
“So gathering the survivors together and trying to rebuild civilization is no
good, then?”

Spoiler

The UEG searched her surroundings. The empty blackness really seemed
to go on forever. As far as her senses could reach, the darkness continued on,
unending. So she tried looking into other dimensions, parallel worlds, or
alternate universes, but none of it worked. Only the same void greeted her.
There really was nothing here. Finally realizing it, she started to feel the
beginnings of fear. No matter where she went, there was nothing. Beyond
that, she couldn’t teleport.
“I-In that case, I will incinerate everything! Time! Space! The universe
itself! The higher-level universe that encompasses this one!”
The UEG unleashed her power in full force. But that power, which should
have annihilated everything, vanished into the darkness. It hadn’t made the
slightest change in her surroundings.
“It’s impossible,” Kouryu said. “There’s nothing here, so there’s nothing
for you to destroy.”

Spoiler

“I-In that case, I will simply create a world here myself.” There was
nothing here, and she couldn’t go anywhere, so she would have to make
something here herself. As a god, she could create as much as she wished.
Or she should have been able to. But no matter what she made, it
immediately vanished into the darkness. This space didn’t permit anything to
exist. And it finally occurred to her that she too was disappearing. No matter
what she did to try and preserve herself, her own perception of herself was
starting to grow vague.
“Why? Why has this happened to me?”
Losing her form, losing her sense of self, the UEG finally vanished into
the empty blackness.

 

[Cipher72]

additional context for the scan they shared

Spoiler

“We dated for a bit a long time ago. That’s a secret, though. I don’t want
everyone else getting jealous. Man, I figured things would be messy when
she woke up, but this is terrible.” The information on the display in front of
them changed, showing the state of the entire world rather than just Belm.
“Half the population is dead. I never expected she’d do something like this. I
figured a lot of people would get killed when she tried to take revenge on me
or the goddesses, but I didn’t expect a massacre like this...”
“Even if it’s only half the population, all the major cities have been
destroyed, so the world is basically over, right?” Van said.
“And that beam of light she fired went right through the core of the planet,
so the whole thing will probably fall apart soon.”
“So gathering the survivors together and trying to rebuild civilization is no
good, then?”

Spoiler

The UEG searched her surroundings. The empty blackness really seemed
to go on forever. As far as her senses could reach, the darkness continued on,
unending. So she tried looking into other dimensions, parallel worlds, or
alternate universes, but none of it worked. Only the same void greeted her.
There really was nothing here. Finally realizing it, she started to feel the
beginnings of fear. No matter where she went, there was nothing. Beyond
that, she couldn’t teleport.
“I-In that case, I will incinerate everything! Time! Space! The universe
itself! The higher-level universe that encompasses this one!”
The UEG unleashed her power in full force. But that power, which should
have annihilated everything, vanished into the darkness. It hadn’t made the
slightest change in her surroundings.
“It’s impossible,” Kouryu said. “There’s nothing here, so there’s nothing
for you to destroy.”

Spoiler

“I-In that case, I will simply create a world here myself.” There was
nothing here, and she couldn’t go anywhere, so she would have to make
something here herself. As a god, she could create as much as she wished.
Or she should have been able to. But no matter what she made, it
immediately vanished into the darkness. This space didn’t permit anything to
exist. And it finally occurred to her that she too was disappearing. No matter
what she did to try and preserve herself, her own perception of herself was
starting to grow vague.
“Why? Why has this happened to me?”
Losing her form, losing her sense of self, the UEG finally vanished into
the empty blackness.

Ik the last two but where's the first one from ? I couldn't find it in Ch 21 & 22

 

[sukuna171]

Ik the last two but where's the first one from ? I couldn't find it in Ch 21 & 22

The first scan happens at the start of chapter 22, probably around page 150.

 

[Maniaunavailable]

agree with IM2, disagree with 7D, fine with anything below that tho

 

[Rikimarox2]

I'm kind of blind to this series, but I'll simply go through them based on the scans alone;

Hello everyone, this thread will be very simple, and I ask that you stick to the topic. I do not want comments that are unrelated to the subject.

Spoiler: Reiner04 statement about the Abyss.

This is @Reiner04 response to @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless ’s argument in the previous discussion about the Abyss ↓

Actually, after reading through the scans carefully, I think an Abyss being Universal size should be fine. Although the text states he can only appear where the two dimensions intersect, it seems these intersection points are continous and exist across the entire Celestial Foundation since he can travel freely between the dimensions and can go almost anywhere, it suggests that while these two planes exist parallel to each other (since it is accessible from nearly everywhere), the free movement is only possible through certain points (intersection points), which, even if are continous and exist almost everywhere, aren't present exactly at all places. They likely intersect at enough points to make free movement feasible from nearly any location but not that they intersect at every point. Something like this img:

In addition to this, being referred to as 'alternate' or 'parallel' realities is generally considered a strong indication that they are complete universes, provided the context supports it per our standards. And since the term 'dimensions' is being used here to refer to either a dimensional axis otherwise universe itself, I believe this can be used as further supporting evidence for a Universal size. The standard i am referring to:

Being labeled as "Entire Alternate Realities" generally indicates them being called universes, but the context and semantics should preferably be specified.

I guess the Parallel/Alternate Realities is pretty convincing. However, do you have a scan of them stating they are alternate/parallel realities? Additionally, for the above scans, I was initially on board with Universe size since it states "Has an additional extra dimension", which I thought meant Spatial Dimension, but looking at the other scan, the whole "overlapping" thing honestly kinda shakes that theory for me, and it seems more like an alternate dimension or something along those lines.

Neutral on this.

Spoiler: The Celestial Foundation: 2B.

This has already been approved previously, so there is no need to open another thread, as the arguments are the same after reviewing the discussion.

Thread for upgrading the Celestial Foundations to 2B

...? Habibi, that thread is 3+ years old now, and you cannot simply post an old thread and tell users to just "go read them, lmao", because the arguments are "the same", especially when that thread is old as hell, and iirc has been changed a few times. Just list the arguments you want to mention, and explictly tell us why they should be 2-B, especially when iirc, there are Celestial Foundations that are of smaller size (Solar system level?). Albeit, my knowledge is awful on this series, so I'm all open if I just have a misconception.

Spoiler: Addition of Information Manipulation (Type 2).

Here we have the World Core, which is the foundation of the entire world and the source of all information about the world. It is called the World Core and exists in a layer completely separate from the world, and the information of the world can be manipulated and everything related to the world can be changed from this core.

I'm sorry, but I really do not see info type 2 here. A single mention of "Information", with no additional mentions of it anywhere else, and no real feats that show the properties of Info type 2, just doesn't seem enough to qualify for the ability. If you have more scans that elaborate on the "information" part, by all means. But for now, I disagree with this.

Spoiler: The Sea is 1-C (7D).

The Sea is an infinite space that contains a countless, unquantifiable number of Celestial Foundations, with reasonable distances between them, arranged within a kind of abstract hierarchical structure. It also contains the Abyss, which is a five-dimensional realm that satisfies the Low 1-C scale. Each Celestial Foundation is a 2-B structure, and there are also infinitely large Foundations. The Sea containing all of these structures necessitates an additional spatial dimension in order to encompass them, especially considering that the distances between these structures are extremely vast despite their uncountable number, and that there are even infinitely large Foundations. This demonstrates that the Sea is capable of containing an infinite number of such structures while still maintaining separation between them, since it is itself an infinite space. Therefore, no matter how large their number is, it is not an issue for the Sea, and it satisfies the required size due to its infinity. Accordingly, with this added spatial dimension, it would be 6D.

Furthermore, the Sea also contains the Abyss (Low 1-C), which proves that it is capable of containing five-dimensional structures within itself, even infinitely so. The scale of the Abyss within the Sea is cosmic, as it encompasses multiple Celestial Foundations, and the Sea is capable of containing structures of 2-B scale, infinitely large ones, and still maintaining vast distances between them. Therefore, the Sea can contain an infinite number of five-dimensional structures like the Abyss because it is an infinite space and has demonstrated the capacity to contain higher-dimensional constructs.

Assuming the Abyss is Low 1-C (Which... does not seem to be the case? We're literally arguing that the Abyss is Universal based on Reiner's quote, and the only way it could be Low 1-C is if we assume the Celestial Foundation stuff, which even then, there is quite the bit of arguments of it just being Infinite 4-D, unless we take the whole extra dimension part), why wouldn't this just be Infinite Low 1-C? If it is capable of holding a Low 1-C structure, then the Celestial Foundation part doesn't matter, as they are "4-D" (Well, assuming they actually are 4-D), so they're insignificant even compared to the Abyss.

It being able to hold infinite amount of Low 1-C structures does not make it 1-C, as even a normal Infinite Low 1-C structure could do that. In order to proof something like 1-C, I'd assume you'd need something like proof of an uncountable infinite amount of Low 1-C structures inside of the Sea, which does not seem to be the case currently.

As for the Time shenanigans, I'm honestly not sure. That assumes all Celestial Foundations are 4-D, which, again, the current arguments are just "look at the old thread" instead of posting it here, which is pretty ehh. Additionally, I'd like much more feats or context honestly on this kind of stuff. Furthermore, since I don't really know the series, why couldn't all the Celestial Foundation just... share the same time? As in, even the time inside of them are of the Sea? Because from the scans, it really doesn't seem to imply there is somehow a higher dimension of time, and moreso just the good old time, and it requires quite the bit of headcanons in order for that to be true.

One series that comes to mind that does this whole shenanigan well is Second Life Ranker, where each universe/timeline exists by itself, and turning back time does not change other timelines, but there is a Wheel of Time/Higher Time or whatever it was called, where reversing it would reverse all the timelines. I'd appreciate a bit more feats, but I might just be a bit too strict, so eh.

Disagree with 7-D, Neutral, leaning towards disagreeing with 6-D (Could very likely change if there are more feats for Celestial Foundations being timelines themselves, since that old thread really did not convince me, personally. But then again, idk why we assume the Abyss is 5-D when it is not mentioned anywhere here).

So, tl;dr
Neutral with Universal Abyss.
Disagree with Celestial Foundation, would appreciate arguments IN this crt.
Disagree with Info Type 2
The last one is screwed since it assumes the Abyss is 5-D when... the CRT is kinda trying to prove it is universal? Even if it was 5-D, I disagree with 7-D, neutral, leaning towards disagreeing on 6-D.

Again, I don't know jack about this series besides a few scans here and there, so I'd appreciate any counter-arguments here (With scans, of course).

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

IM2 seems fine
Disagree with 7D.

 

[sukuna171]

...? Habibi, that thread is 3+ years old now, and you cannot simply post an old thread and tell users to just "go read them, lmao", because the arguments are "the same", especially when that thread is old as hell, and iirc has been changed a few times. Just list the arguments you want to mention, and explictly tell us why they should be 2-B, especially when iirc, there are Celestial Foundations that are of smaller size (Solar system level?). Albeit, my knowledge is awful on this series, so I'm all open if I just have a misconception.

The Celestial Foundations are so vast that even Alice’s dimension an infinite‑sized realm seems like nothing more than a tiny bubble by comparison.

Spoiler

She immediately decided to flee. Her invincibility within Another
Kingdom had been called into question. Naturally, she wouldn’t be able to
stubbornly stick to that one ability. That was enough for her to give up her
reliance on it. So Alice teleported to the infinite hallway that made up the
entrance of her realm. The hallway was lined with countless doors and
stretched on forever. As an entrance that temporarily held her visitors, no
matter which door one went through, it would lead into her realm.

Spoiler

He had ordered the Omega Blade to teleport him to the Sage Alice, but
there was no sign of her. He was in a long, dark hallway. Lamps hanging
from the low ceiling cast a dim light around him. The walls were lined with
countless doors. It was too dark to see far, giving the impression that the
hallway continued forever, with an infinite number of doors.
“This is where Alice is,” Navi explained.
“I know that, but can’t you teleport me beside her?” Technically, he
hadn’t ordered the sword to do that, but he couldn’t help but be unsatisfied
with the result.
“This is a pocket dimension that rejects teleportation. You have
permission to come this far, but you can’t teleport any farther.”
“So what, am I supposed to check all of these doors one by one?”
“If that is too much trouble, you could destroy the dimension altogether. It
is little more than a transient bubble on the surface of the world, after all.
Your power is overwhelmingly greater, so the Sages have no choice but to
scurry around in the dark, hiding.”
“If I go inside, will I still be able to use the Omega Blade?”
“Yes. This dimension is still built on the framework of the greater world.
It will only provide some moderate advantages to the owner.”

 

[Cipher72]

Habibi, that thread is 3+ years old now

I am crying lmao
All jokes aside I have no clue why OP decided to make a CRT that shoves in Info-2 despite UMR telling him to wait, along with 3 things that were rejected and 1 thing whose proof is a 3 year old CRT, have some patience.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Hello everyone, this thread will be very simple, and I ask that you stick to the topic. I do not want comments that are unrelated to the subject.

Spoiler: Reiner04 statement about the Abyss.

This is @Reiner04 response to @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless ’s argument in the previous discussion about the Abyss ↓

Actually, after reading through the scans carefully, I think an Abyss being Universal size should be fine. Although the text states he can only appear where the two dimensions intersect, it seems these intersection points are continous and exist across the entire Celestial Foundation since he can travel freely between the dimensions and can go almost anywhere, it suggests that while these two planes exist parallel to each other (since it is accessible from nearly everywhere), the free movement is only possible through certain points (intersection points), which, even if are continous and exist almost everywhere, aren't present exactly at all places. They likely intersect at enough points to make free movement feasible from nearly any location but not that they intersect at every point. Something like this img:

In addition to this, being referred to as 'alternate' or 'parallel' realities is generally considered a strong indication that they are complete universes, provided the context supports it per our standards. And since the term 'dimensions' is being used here to refer to either a dimensional axis otherwise universe itself, I believe this can be used as further supporting evidence for a Universal size. The standard i am referring to:

Being labeled as "Entire Alternate Realities" generally indicates them being called universes, but the context and semantics should preferably be specified.

I guess I'm neutral here. Not very familiar with how the wiki treats those things.

Spoiler: The Celestial Foundation: 2B.

This has already been approved previously, so there is no need to open another thread, as the arguments are the same after reviewing the discussion.

Thread for upgrading the Celestial Foundations to 2B

Just linking an old thread isnt enough for this. You have to address the previous reason for why CFs dont contain parallel timelines anymore.

Hello everyone, this thread will be very simple, and I ask that you stick to the topic. I do not want comments that are unrelated to the subject.

Spoiler: Addition of Information Manipulation (Type 2).

Here we have the World Core, which is the foundation of the entire world and the source of all information about the world. It is called the World Core and exists in a layer completely separate from the world, and the information of the world can be manipulated and everything related to the world can be changed from this core.

I agree but the argument is lacking.

Info Type 2 is already accepted in some of the profiles. From MalnaRilna's profile:

Information Manipulation (Type 2), Information Analysis, Reality Warping (Should capable of accessing the higher layer of information of the world similar to her angels. Can manipulate the world’s core which defines the world. By manipulating the world core, the reality also will be impact from it. Those with the authority of god can freely manipulate the world. God capable of manipulating the underlying building block of reality)

Information is pretty much a fundamental aspect in the verse. Not only we are told that the World Core is the information that makes up the world, but we are also told about how information defines an individual's existence.

Gods and Yogiri would scale to this. I can write up a justification for Yogiri later.

Spoiler: The Sea is 1-C (7D).

The Sea is an infinite space that contains a countless, unquantifiable number of Celestial Foundations, with reasonable distances between them, arranged within a kind of abstract hierarchical structure. It also contains the Abyss, which is a five-dimensional realm that satisfies the Low 1-C scale. Each Celestial Foundation is a 2-B structure, and there are also infinitely large Foundations. The Sea containing all of these structures necessitates an additional spatial dimension in order to encompass them, especially considering that the distances between these structures are extremely vast despite their uncountable number, and that there are even infinitely large Foundations. This demonstrates that the Sea is capable of containing an infinite number of such structures while still maintaining separation between them, since it is itself an infinite space. Therefore, no matter how large their number is, it is not an issue for the Sea, and it satisfies the required size due to its infinity. Accordingly, with this added spatial dimension, it would be 6D.

Furthermore, the Sea also contains the Abyss (Low 1-C), which proves that it is capable of containing five-dimensional structures within itself, even infinitely so. The scale of the Abyss within the Sea is cosmic, as it encompasses multiple Celestial Foundations, and the Sea is capable of containing structures of 2-B scale, infinitely large ones, and still maintaining vast distances between them. Therefore, the Sea can contain an infinite number of five-dimensional structures like the Abyss because it is an infinite space and has demonstrated the capacity to contain higher-dimensional constructs.

Additionally, the Sea also possesses a temporal dimension, as the Celestial Record Eaters utilize time within the Sea itself. Since they exist within it, they can reverse time, see the future, or travel backward in time within the Sea. This demonstrates that the Sea has a temporal dimension as well, which would make it 7D.

Containing a Low 1-C structure is still Low 1-C. The Sea containing the Celestial Foundations and the space between them doesnt matter, since CFs are still Tier 2, so it wouldnt contribute to anything.

So I disagree with this part.

which I thought meant Spatial Dimension, but looking at the other scan, the whole "overlapping" thing honestly kinda shakes that theory for me, and it seems more like an alternate dimension or something along those lines.

Nah, the nature of the Abyss is pretty accurate to how higher dimensions operate. JustANormalPerson outlined this perfectly here.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

I am crying lmao
All jokes aside I have no clue why OP decided to make a CRT that shoves in Info-2 despite UMR telling him to wait, along with 3 things that were rejected and 1 thing whose proof is a 3 year old CRT, have some patience.

I didn’t understand what he meant about information manipulation. I thought he was telling me he would open his own thread—I assumed he was busy. I didn’t realize he meant that he himself would handle the information manipulation part.

Also, so far everything is fine. I’ll reply in a few hours—everything is still good for now.

 

[Hecky2222]

Can we tag Qawsedf for Intersection part? I am also not sure if Reiner's interpretation is treated as "significant size" there

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Can we tag Qawsedf for Intersection part? I am also not sure if Reiner's interpretation is treated as "significant size" there

Yes, he is very important, and yes, I was also thinking of adding him a few hours ago—he is an expert in these matters.

 

[Reiner04]

Can we tag Qawsedf for Intersection part? I am also not sure if Reiner's interpretation is treated as "significant size" there

@Qawsedf234 Your input on the thread will be appreciated.

 

[Hjdjdhf]

She immediately decided to flee. Her invincibility within Another
Kingdom had been called into question. Naturally, she wouldn’t be able to
stubbornly stick to that one ability. That was enough for her to give up her
reliance on it. So Alice teleported to the infinite hallway that made up the
entrance of her realm. The hallway was lined with countless doors and
stretched on forever. As an entrance that temporarily held her visitors, no
matter which door one went through, it would lead into her realm.

He was in a long, dark hallway. Lamps hanging
from the low ceiling cast a dim light around him. The walls were lined with
countless doors. It was too dark to see far, giving the impression that the
hallway continued forever, with an infinite number of doors.

Why did you try to use the Infinite Corridor as proof? In fact, your own citation already proves that this is merely a impression, not reality.

By the way, in the same volume as your first citation, I found something interesting: relying on the energy of this world to function cannot accomplish the Infinitely related things. Would you say this world is the Celestial Foundation?

「世界剣の限界についても説明いたします。世界剣はこの世界に存在するエネルギーを使用して動作します。ですので、無限に関することは実現できません。この世界に存在するエネルギーを使ってできることが、できることの限界となります」——Volume 9

世界剣が全能だというならそれぐらいはできるだろう。

「重人様がそう設定しない限りはそのようなことにはなりません。では世界剣の限界について引き続き説明いたします。世界剣の力が及ぶのはこの世界内のみです」

 

[Azertyhuuh]

I guess I'm neutral here. Not very familiar with how the wiki treats those things.

Qawsedf234 is an expert in these matters; request him to come here so we can hear his opinion on this issue.

Just linking an old thread isnt enough for this. You have to address the previous reason for why CFs dont contain parallel timelines anymore.

Spoiler: Response to Sweet Dao’s argument regarding parallel worlds.

One of the most obvious proofs is with the Celestial Foundation Eater. When one of them targeted Paella's CF, it physically grabbed the Canopy and forced it to open, however, that's impossible unless we assume the timeline itself is bigger than simply a single CF, because if not, it would mean the Big Fish was lucky enough to...only find the good timeline? Yeah, that doesn't make any sense.

This is Sweet Dao’s biggest piece of evidence to deny that parallel universes operate within a single Celestial Foundation. However, it is an invalid argument because it comes from the Demon King novel. As he mentioned himself, this is the strongest evidence he has cited

Additionally, there comes the problem with Mitsuki. He was called an exception in the Ultimate Ensemble World (Meaning, the whole cosmology, including parallel worlds) and only the Mitsuki from the "prime timeline" (the one we follow) took over the Celestial Foundation of Kouryu. However, if we were to make the assumption that alternative timelines exist solely on the level of CF, it means that he somehow took over...all the alternative timelines? That there exist as much Yogiri and Mitsuki "fighting" than there are of timelines? When Yogiri is also very much an exception? Yeah, no.

This is irrelevant. What does Mitsuki being an exception have to do with refuting that the Heavenly Foundation contains parallel worlds within it? From what I’ve read and understand, Sweet Dao at that time misunderstood the meaning of exceptions.

In short, what counted as rare and exceptional in one world was perfectly natural in another, but there were still things that counted as exceptional in all worlds. These were referred to as "exceptions." The name was nothing special, only enough to evoke the intended meaning within the proper context. There were few enough such phenomena that they needed no special name. None were particularly impressive on their own, notable only for having a characteristic that was applicable across all worlds.

Volume 14 Chapter 4

As everyone can see, exceptions are simply a special trait possessed by a small group of individuals, and nothing distinguishes them except that these individuals have a trait that applies across all worlds. That is, they possess a trait that affects any world in the Final Group, like Kyuzaburo’s sword, which can destroy any world, or Mitsuki’s dream, which can influence any world—and that is all. Nothing else sets them apart.

---

Here is the proof that the parallel worlds are connected to the original world from which they emerged and remain linked to it, as established in the story itself: ↓

Touichirou headed to a universe governed by entirely different laws and immediately erased the one he had just come from along with all the parallel universes connected to it.

I don’t think we’ll go so far as to lie about the story itself; I don’t think we’ll reach that point.

I agree but the argument is lacking.

Info Type 2 is already accepted in some of the profiles. From MalnaRilna's profile:



Information is pretty much a fundamental aspect in the verse. Not only we are told that the World Core is the information that makes up the world, but we are also told about how information defines an individual's existence.

Gods and Yogiri would scale to this. I can write up a justification for Yogiri later.

Containing a Low 1-C structure is still Low 1-C. The Sea containing the Celestial Foundations and the space between them doesnt matter, since CFs are still Tier 2, so it wouldnt contribute to anything.

So I disagree with this part.

Okay, and what about the sea’s time dimension? This would make the sea six-dimensional.