Caine is MFTL+ no way (TADC)

[Randomuser3412]

He had the moon on his side...

What? they're in the background and he's in the foreground... This isn't relevant to the thread, anyway.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I agree with the OP.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Snip

Ok maybe I didn't explain it well. You also probably mess up chronology because you didn't watch beyond first two episodes, so maybe that's my point is not going through. So I will give a last attempt, if not then oh well.

Caine sucks at making fake backgrounds. They are blatantly cartoonish with five point ends in episode 5, where star gazing happens. However in episode 4, where Gangle scene occurs, they are shown to be very realistic. You'd say he just got better, but episode 4 goes before episode 5. This is basically my point as to why episode 4 must be real, because his fake ones are very blatantly bad. Maybe Gangle wouldn't know and have any reaction, but we do see it is real. I used the fact that Gangle wanted something realistic as supportive as to why he would choose to make them real in episode 4.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Caine sucks at making fake backgrounds. They are blatantly cartoonish with five point ends in episode 5, where star gazing happens. However in episode 4, where Gangle scene occurs, they are shown to be very realistic. You'd say he just got better, but episode 4 goes before episode 5. This is basically my point as to why episode 4 must be real, because his fake ones are very blatantly bad. Maybe Gangle wouldn't know and have any reaction, but we do see it is real. I used the fact that Gangle wanted something realistic as supportive as to why he would choose to make them real in episode 4.

Who is "we" lol?

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

two votes in hours, nice

 

[Jin2188]

okay what the actual f*ck is this travesty

Downgrade should be obvious. It's a digital world, so we should naturally just assume that it's a skybox. Instead we have people arguing "B-b-but you can't prove it isn't 4-A!" Come on man. Obviously Caine isn't actually out there making star systems. It literally does nothing for him when he can make the Circus just as immersive with a fake skybox that looks real.

Occam's Razor people.

 

[Psychomaster35]

He had the moon on his side...

One, nobody ever brought up issues with this.
Two, did you ever consider that the moon was in the background?

I understand you must be feeling salty about what's happening, but it doesn’t mean you should start downplaying a verse just because a reasonable downgrade got accepted. I've seen people act like this before, and it's unjust.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Now we'll have to discuss the size of those damn sun and moon.

Has this already been discussed? Like, he's 7-B/class G because of that.

Lifting Strength: Class G (Has consistently been referred to by his creations as a God, the Sun, who is able to move her body weighing this much, and the Fudge, who is able to support his massive body on land which weighs this much.Pushed all of the main cast (minus Zooble) into a portal to the Candy Canyon Kingdom, including Pomni, who can snapped a lollipop's stick with this amount of force

 

[Psychomaster35]

If anything is to make this up, I can recalculate the feat by calculating the distance Caine travelled based on the Grounds no longer being visible after Caine travelled far enough into the Z-Axis. There's 21 hours until this gets applied anyway.

 

[Randomuser3412]

If anything is to make this up, I can recalculate the feat by calculating the distance Caine travelled based on the Grounds no longer being visible after Caine travelled far enough into the Z-Axis. There's 21 hours until this gets applied anyway.

I don't imagine it'd be any less than this... but the Wackywatch showed Pomni in the void being 3 km out from where Caine was, if that's helpful(?)

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I don't imagine it'd be any less than this... but the Wackywatch showed Pomni in the void being 3 km out from where Caine was, if that's helpful(?)

Caine was in special restaurant realm which can be however far away from main island, so not really methinks.

 

[Jinx666]

okay what the actual f*ck is this travesty

Downgrade should be obvious. It's a digital world, so we should naturally just assume that it's a skybox. Instead we have people arguing "B-b-but you can't prove it isn't 4-A!" Come on man. Obviously Caine isn't actually out there making star systems. It literally does nothing for him when he can make the Circus just as immersive with a fake skybox that looks real.

Occam's Razor people.

^^^

Voting for the downgrades

 

[Dalesean027]

The downgrade makes sense to me

 

[Bsk_lyree]

OP makes sense.

So it can be closed?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Setelah membaca blog ini:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...he_Amazing_Digital_Circus:_Tour_Into_The_Void

Saya benar-benar tidak mengerti mengapa prestasi ini digunakan untuk membenarkan kecepatan MFTL+ (lebih cepat dari kecepatan cahaya).
Seluruh perhitungan tampaknya mengasumsikan bahwa Void sangat jauh dari Grounds, tetapi… mengapa? Dalam cerita aslinya, Void benar-benar mengelilingi Grounds ( Ini atau Ini ). Anda tidak perlu menempuh jarak antar bintang untuk mencapainya, Anda hanya perlu melangkah keluar dari Grounds dan Anda sudah berada di sana. Grounds sendiri terletak tepat di tengah Void, jadi memperlakukan ini sebagai perjalanan jarak jauh terasa janggal sejak awal.
Yang lebih membingungkan saya adalah kalkulator tersebut memperlakukan Void dan Grounds seolah-olah keduanya berada di dimensi yang terpisah. Padahal TADC adalah dunia digital. Dalam konteks itu, Void jelas berfungsi sebagai area ruang yang belum dirender atau belum selesai yang belum dibangun oleh pengembang, dan itulah sebabnya Void kosong. Hanya Grounds yang benar-benar dirender dan dapat diakses.
Lalu ada anggapan bahwa area tersebut cukup luas untuk menampung matahari, bulan, dan bintang. Itu sama sekali tidak masuk akal. Yang kita lihat adalah latar langit. Langit yang terlihat terbatas pada skala sebuah pulau kecil, bukan struktur kosmik yang sebenarnya. Jika kita mulai memperlakukan setiap latar belakang dekoratif sebagai astronomi literal, semuanya akan menjadi konyol dengan sangat cepat.
Ungkapan "prasmanan kosmik" di sini juga memiliki makna yang jauh lebih dalam dari seharusnya. "Kosmik" tidak selalu berarti luar angkasa. Ungkapan ini, yang berasal dari Caine, seorang pembawa acara yang selalu melebih-lebihkan dan berbicara dengan bahasa yang mencolok dan berlebihan, terdengar lebih seperti gaya puitis atau hiperbola. Bisa saja itu merujuk pada beragam petualangan dan tema yang tersedia, bukan sesuatu yang berukuran astronomis.

Kesimpulan:
Jadi ya, saya kesulitan memahami bagaimana pencapaian ini mendukung MFTL+ sama sekali. Asumsi di balik perhitungan tersebut tidak benar-benar sesuai dengan bagaimana dunia The Amazing Digital Circus sebenarnya disajikan, yang membuat peringkat tersebut terasa lebih dipaksakan daripada dibenarkan.
Dan karena uraian di atas telah membahas penciptaan benda-benda langit seperti matahari, bulan, dan bintang yang tidak relevan, maka 4A dapat dihapus dan Caine dapat kembali ke tingkat kota yang lebih tinggi.

Setuju: @Damage3245, Anonymous_Learner, Randomuser3412, Ednaxel2, Kellex, IDK3465, Mommyleona, Flowerguy2, StrymULTRA

Netral:

Tidak setuju: Alexander

OP kindly please put English back.

 

[Kellex]

So it can be closed?

48 hours after the thread's opening needs to pass first before closing.

 

[Bsk_lyree]

OP kindly please put English back.

I'm also confused why it changed

 

[StrymULTRA]

I'm also confused why it changed

Someone messed with the automatic translator smh

 

[Psychomaster35]

If anything is to make this up, I can recalculate the feat by calculating the distance Caine travelled based on the Grounds no longer being visible after Caine travelled far enough into the Z-Axis. There's 21 hours until this gets applied anyway.

Here's the recalc

The downgrade makes sense to me

A "cosmos" doesn't have a singular or minimum size as far as I'm aware.

Given how you commented on this thread, can you take a look at the recalc?

 

[Alexander]

Now that I think about it...where the **** will the other realms even exists in the first place if the grounds is the base place???

 

[Zingerpond]

This is not a game, it doesn't work like a game, it is more of a simulation than a game.
Or you know...there is this game called NO-MAN SKY!

It not technically being a game doesn’t change anything. Games are virtual worlds as well. Only difference between the two is intended use (and they literally use it as a game world).

 

[Alexander]

It not technically being a game doesn’t change anything. Games are virtual worlds as well. Only difference between the two is intended use (and they literally use it as a game world).

With cartoon logic?and Caine treats this has if it was a show, not a game

 

[Bsk_lyree]

With cartoon logic?and Caine treats this has if it was a show, not a game

It's been said many times that it doesn't matter. it is digital and using binary code for world development.
So stop bringing that argument up.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

It's been said many times that it doesn't matter. it is digital and using binary code for world development.

So are DDLC and UTDR.
Using instances of fake stars is good and all, but “game/simulation so must be small” is a very poor argument. Just because the former works doesn’t mean the latter does too.

 

[Zingerpond]

With cartoon logic?and Caine treats this has if it was a show, not a game

I don’t see how cartoon logic changes much either tbh, if anything that makes it less likely Cain bothered with a realistic cosmos.


Also make a show in unreal engine 5 and you probably won’t bother with creating and rendering a realistic cosmos either, a skybox would work.

 

[Thunderman101]

So are DDLC and UTDR.
Using instances of fake stars is good and all, but “game/simulation so must be small” is a very poor argument. Just because the former works doesn’t mean the latter does too.

hg. gh n,dvewww

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

hg. gh n,dvewww

 

[Jinx666]

So are DDLC and UTDR.
Using instances of fake stars is good and all, but “game/simulation so must be small” is a very poor argument. Just because the former works doesn’t mean the latter does too.

Do you think a game program would be bigger or smaller than an entire solar system exactly?

Especially when the stars and background are NOT the important part of the adventures like? If Caine made an adventure where you space travelled to other environments then maybe you'd have an argument

Definitely think its obvious which option is the safest to go with...

 

[Jinx666]

Glad this thread seems to be unanimous, i think a Note on Caine's profile should also be included as to why we dont consider the 'starry sky' valid in his scaling too. Ive looked around and this has been a standard for Caine (likely thanks to this wiki) so it would be good to explain why we dont follow this logic.

 

[LandonTheGuy]

Do you think a game program would be bigger or smaller than an entire solar system exactly?

Especially when the stars and background are NOT the important part of the adventures like? If Caine made an adventure where you space travelled to other environments then maybe you'd have an argument

Definitely think its obvious which option is the safest to go with...

agree

 

[IDK3465]

Here's the recalc

Huh, Sub-Rel, that's actually quite a bit faster than I expected, like, I was fully prepared for Caine's flight speed to be downgraded to around Mach 3 or something

 

[Jinx666]

death battle cast talking about Caine and his feats rn, and just to say they agree its not comparable to a star

 

[StrymULTRA]

So are DDLC and UTDR.
Using instances of fake stars is good and all, but “game/simulation so must be small” is a very poor argument. Just because the former works doesn’t mean the latter does too.

Do you think a game program would be bigger or smaller than an entire solar system exactly?

Especially when the stars and background are NOT the important part of the adventures like? If Caine made an adventure where you space travelled to other environments then maybe you'd have an argument

Definitely think its obvious which option is the safest to go with...

People, again, the reason why DDLC is not 11-C rn is because of it having:

• 3 statements from reliable source (literally the creators of the game) that the game is a simulated universe that is a replica of their home reality.
• Visuals supporting such notion such as starry skies and nebulas being visible in one of the arcs.
• A statement of the game world not being just a random simulation but a universe as real as the ones of the creators, with the "real world" being heavily implied to be a simulated world as well like Monika's.

It's NOWHERE comparable to TADC, it has a whole different context and a ton of statements that make it clear that the simulation in that case is a full universe. Monika has a big-ass note on her profile to emphatize so, and the only reason why it's not a full discussion rule is because of people barely caring of the verse nowadays compared to its prime.

Regarding Undertale and Deltarune, it just has the benefit of the doubt of it being a "videogame" in a meta sense, in the same way Marvel and DC are canonically comics that are read from the audience (I mean, for DC the paper where the comics are read is literally a character), or in the same way EarthBound or OFF are also videogames: we do not know anything about the real world in these, so we cannot assume that these games aren't universes: the entire reality of the story starts and ends there, and they're not stated to be just simulations in a man-made VR program like TADC is.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

.

My point was debunking “videogame = should be small/cannot be big” myth. I was not saying TADC has insane amounts of context as other games. It’s as simple as disproof via counterexample, that’s it.

 

[Jinx666]

The Digital Circus isnt a universe just because the creator referred to the concept of fans making 'AUs' lol. Be serious.

Even if it was, the vast majority is completely enveloped by the 'Void' which is confirmed out of Caine's control or knowledge, and thus he cant scale.

Its a digital world thats confirmed within the real world (which is the universe in question.) In the context of the series, its digital and 2D in our perspective

 

[StrymULTRA]

My point was debunking “videogame = should be small/cannot be big” myth. I was not saying TADC has insane amounts of context as other games. It’s as simple as disproof via counterexample, that’s it.

Yeah but you also should not be using these verses as counter when they have a lot of evidence to disprove them not being universe sized. Context matters, you should use other examples that would fit more with TADC's nature, not meta videogames lol.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Yeah but you also should not be using these verses as counter when they have a lot of evidence to disprove them not being universe sized. Context matters, you should use other examples that would fit more with TADC's nature, not meta videogames lol.

When it is necessary to prove that not all swans in the pond are white, it suffices to prove the existence of at least one black, or purple, or golden one, and so on. Even if I’m saying the swan in the pond is gray, I can still use a purple one to disprove a statement that all swans in the pond are white, even if purple is not remotely comparable to gray.

It’s the essence of how the disproof of universal statements via counterexample works. You just need a counterexample, regardless of how similar it is to the supposed hypothesis/theory.

 

[StrymULTRA]

When it is necessary to prove that not all swans in the pond are white, it suffices to prove the existence of at least one black, or purple, or golden one, and so on. Even if I’m saying the swan in the pond is gray, I can still use a purple one to disprove a statement that all swans in the pond are white, even if purple is not remotely comparable to gray.

It’s the essence of how the disproof of universal statements via counterexample works. You just need a counterexample, regardless of how similar it is to the supposed hypothesis/theory.

This need of yours to be right all the time at all costs is annoying ngl. Counterexamples have to be comparable in order to even be used in the argument, otherwise they're false equivalences.

Just admit you've fumbled here due to lacking good examples and move on.

 

[DaReaperMan]

When it is necessary to prove that not all swans in the pond are white, it suffices to prove the existence of at least one black, or purple, or golden one, and so on. Even if I’m saying the swan in the pond is gray, I can still use a purple one to disprove a statement that all swans in the pond are white, even if purple is not remotely comparable to gray.

 

[LandonTheGuy]

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