Caine is MFTL+ no way (TADC)

[Bsk_lyree]

After reading this blog:

The Amazing Digital Circus: Tour Into The Void

vsbattles.fandom.com

I genuinely do not understand why this feat is being used to justify MFTL+ speed.
The entire calculation seems to assume that the Void is extremely far away from the Grounds, but… why? In the actual narrative, the Void literally surrounds the Grounds (This). You do not need to travel across interstellar distances to reach it; you simply step outside the Grounds and you are already there. The Grounds themselves are positioned directly at the center of the Void, so treating this as some kind of long-distance travel feels strange from the outset.
What confuses me even more is that the calculation treats the Void and the Grounds as if they exist in separate dimensions. However, TADC is a digital world. Within that context, the Void clearly functions as an unrendered or unfinished space an area that has not yet been built by the developer which is precisely why it is empty. Only the Grounds are actually rendered and accessible.
Then there is the assumption that the area is large enough to contain the sun, moon, and stars. That makes no sense at all. What we are seeing is a sky background. The visible sky is limited to the scale of a small island, not an actual cosmic structure. If we start treating every decorative background as literal astronomy, things quickly become absurd.
The phrase “cosmic buffet” is also being taken far more literally than it should be. “Cosmic” does not always mean outer space. This phrase, coming from Caine—a show host who constantly exaggerates and speaks in flashy, over-the-top language—sounds far more like poetic wording or hyperbole. It could just as easily be referring to the wide variety of adventures and themes available, rather than anything of astronomical scale.

Conclusion:
So yes, I struggle to understand how this feat supports MFTL+ in any way. The assumptions behind the calculation do not align with how the world of The Amazing Digital Circus is actually presented, which makes the rating feel more forced than justified.
And since the explanation above already addresses the creation of celestial objects such as the sun, moon, and stars as being irrelevant, 4-A can be removed, and Caine can be returned to a higher city-level tier.

Agree: @Damage3245, Anonymous_Learner, Randomuser3412, Ednaxel2, Kellex, IDK3465, Mommyleona, Flowerguy2, StrymULTRA, @Dalesean027, @Maverick_Zero_X, @Planck69, Soul_Nitro_Deluxe

Neutral:

Disagree: Alexander

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

following

 

[Damage3245]

I agree with the OP.

 

[Bsk_lyree]

following

This means you agree with this?

 

[Damage3245]

This means you agree with this?

Following just means they're keeping track of the thread, and not voting on it yet.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

no, it means i'm letting you know i'm watching the thread.
Now, after rereading the thread, i agree with OP

 

[Randomuser3412]

I agree with the OP (the blog has a reddit post in the comments that shows Caine's WackyWatch displaying Pomni's distance as 3 KM if that's relevant, but I think the OP stands without it). This would probably affect the 4-A scaling as well, but that's for a different day, I would imagine.

 

[Bsk_lyree]

I agree with the OP (the blog has a reddit post in the comments that shows Caine's WackyWatch displaying Pomni's distance as 3 KM if that's relevant, but I think the OP stands without it). This would probably affect the 4-A scaling as well, but that's for a different day, I would imagine.

I forgot to mention the 4A lol, thanks for the input

 

[StarShooter80]

Agree with the thread ofc, another example of the void surrounding the circus would be in the latest episode as well, where we see the circus break down and through the cracks all around it we just see the void

 

[Kellex]

I also agree

 

[Alexander]

I kinda disagree, this is not a videogame, this is a digital world Caine himself created and it is not hold by the normal rules of our reality...There is also the statement that Caine created a infinite amount of Zooble parts and we see that he used that specifically to torment Zooble, looking them in a dark room with a flood of body parts.

 

[IDK3465]

I've always been very iffy on us treating the stars in the skybox as actual literal stars rather than just flat images Caine put there, since like... why tf would Caine spend all this time intricately modeling every single celestial body when he could just slap a JPEG on there instead and have it produce the same effect, that'd just be terrible game optimization otherwise.
So, yeah, I'm good with removing MFTL+ and 4-A ratings, it's just too assumptive for my liking

 

[Bsk_lyree]

I kinda disagree, this is not a videogame, this is a digital world Caine himself created and it is not hold by the normal rules of our reality...There is also the statement that Caine created a infinite amount of Zooble parts and we see that he used that specifically to torment Zooble, looking them in a dark room with a flood of body parts.

Your entire argument makes zero sense. Whether it's a 'game' or whatever you want to call it, it's still a virtual experience where Caine is just an AIthat distinction literally changes nothing for this post. Caine spawning 'infinite' body parts? Big deal. Zooble is just made of existing digital assets, so duplicating them is just a server feat, not cosmic power.
Besides, Caine has clear hard-coded limits. He can't even 'delete' or kill the humans who enter the digital world because he’s just an AI managing a server. Honestly, your argument doesn't even apply here. Care to think that over again

 

[Alexander]

I've always been very iffy on us treating the stars in the skybox as actual literal stars rather than just flat images Caine put there, since like... why tf would Caine spend all this time intricately modeling every single celestial body when he could just slap a JPEG on there instead and have it produce the same effect, that'd just be terrible game optimization otherwise.
So, yeah, I'm good with removing MFTL+ and 4-A ratings, it's just too assumptive for my liking

Or you know, he just snaps his fingers and that's create, since that's seems to be pretty much how the circus works.
It is not difficult and it doesn't take hours to create something, Kinger literraly just wished out a butterfly that he made himself.

Your entire argument makes zero sense. Whether it's a 'game' or whatever you want to call it, it's still a virtual experience where Caine is just an AIthat distinction literally changes nothing for this post. Caine spawning 'infinite' body parts? Big deal. Zooble is just made of existing digital assets, so duplicating them is just a server feat, not cosmic power.
Besides, Caine has clear hard-coded limits. He can't even 'delete' or kill the humans who enter the digital world because he’s just an AI managing a server. Honestly, your argument doesn't even apply here. Care to think that over again

No server in the world will last 20 years running active without external power (actually no external power will lasts 20 years of continuous running without the energy turning off)the company is literraly abandoned.
Caine can't kill or delete humans because they are humans that arrived in the realm, not AI's that he creates and can delete on a whim.

 

[Flowerguy2]

Seems pretty reasonable, agreeing with this thread.

 

[IDK3465]

Or you know, he just snaps his fingers and that's create, since that's seems to be pretty much how the circus works.
It is not difficult and it doesn't take hours to create something, Kinger literraly just wished out a butterfly that he made himself.

Caine may be able to create and model complex objects quickly, but that still doesn't mean he isn't limited by the hardware the circus runs on. The server is already hosting several complicated AIs, so why in the actual hell would Caine want to make it like 1000x more laggy and unoptimized for a minor background feature that the inhabitants within the circus probably wouldn't even notice?

 

[Alexander]

Caine may be able to create and model complex objects quickly, but that still doesn't mean he isn't limited by the hardware the circus runs on. The server is already hosting several complicated AIs, so why in the actual hell would Caine want to make it like 1000x more laggy and unoptimized for a minor background feature that the inhabitants within the circus probably wouldn't even notice?

The virtual world isn't lagging because of the performance, it is Caine own fault because he is faulty and his existence is connected to the circus, also the guy is a perfectionist, why would he make fake stars?that feels like something he won't do.

 

[Bsk_lyree]

Caine can't kill or delete humans because they are humans that arrived in the realm

That's the point

No server in the world will last 20 years running active without external power (actually no external power will lasts 20 years of continuous running without the energy turning off)the company is literraly abandoned.

You're equating real world logic with fiction too much lol, we don't know how C&A made this AI and in the new ep the server got attack by virus It is very possible that this copy of AI has been spread by the virus.

 

[Psychomaster35]

Do you just so happen to be from Discord or Reddit or something? Because coincidentally I ended up responding to someone in my blog yesterday to debunk them.

Anyhow, I disagree with the downgrade. The fact that Caine has been shown to make dimensions like the Candy Canyon Kingdom (Episode 2) and Spudsy's (Episode 4) which have a day and night cycle implies that they are more than just kilometers in size. As for the sudden exclusion of the stars in the ending of episode 1, it can mostly be attributed to an animation error given how every other time we see the Grounds, there is a sky. Saying that it's a skybox because it's a video game shouldn't work as Caine has been known to make worlds with day and night cycles as stated earlier, meaning that these skies are very much real.

 

[Edutyn]

we don't know how C&A made this AI and in the new ep the server got attack by virus It is very possible that this copy of AI has been spread by the virus.

That's... actually not true

 

[Alexander]

You're equating real world logic with fiction too much lol, we don't know how C&A made this AI and in the new ep the server got attack by virus It is very possible that this copy of AI has been spread by the virus.

That's just a theory, there is no confirmation that Bubble is a virus, there is more proof that he is the other AI than a Virus.

 

[Mommyleona]

I agree.

 

[Bsk_lyree]

Do you just so happen to be from Discord or Reddit or something? Because coincidentally I ended up responding to someone in my blog yesterday to debunk them.

I don't know about this lol, I just happened to check Caine profile

Anyhow, I disagree with the downgrade. The fact that Caine has been shown to make dimensions like the Candy Canyon Kingdom (Episode 2) and Spudsy's (Episode 4) which have a day and night cycle implies that they are more than just kilometers in size. As for the sudden exclusion of the stars in the ending of episode 1, it can mostly be attributed to an animation error given how every other time we see the Grounds, there is a sky. Saying that it's a skybox because it's a video game shouldn't work as Caine has been known to make worlds with day and night cycles as stated earlier, meaning that these skies are very much real.

In the digital world, games, simulations, and the like, the change from day to night is called "Directional Light" Which doesn't actually create the sun from scratch, but simply takes a round shape, adds texture, and then gives it a light axis direction. I think this argument is pretty weak.
Regarding dimensions, episodes 2 or 4 still have limitations, such as Pomni and I forgot who but he was gummy like that falling down the map which is not rendered, Shows that there are limitations to the rendered map.

 

[Bsk_lyree]

That's... actually not true

Read it again, I'm not saying it's 100% correct

 

[Jinx666]

I mean in general, the whole stats of TADC are iffy.

As if Caine is actually creating real stars as opposed to just using the concept of a skybox like any other digital game. The 'infinite' zooble box doesnt really prove much when it just means it can generate parts endlessly as opposed to being a real infinite size.

Having a day and night cycle also doesnt mean its real, and can instead also be used/imitated with skyboxes. Caines concept of a Sun and a Moon in the circus too are also not reminiscient of real size

 

[DaReaperMan]

Jumping up and down and yelling "SKYBOX!!!" to the Heavens is really getting old, man...

 

[Psychomaster35]

The 'infinite' zooble box doesnt really prove much when it just means it can generate parts endlessly as opposed to being a real infinite size.

For the record, nobody here argued that... though I never really believed that either.

 

[Bsk_lyree]

I mean in general, the whole stats of TADC are iffy.

As if Caine is actually creating real stars as opposed to just using the concept of a skybox like any other digital game. The 'infinite' zooble box doesnt really prove much when it just means it can generate parts endlessly as opposed to being a real infinite size.

Having a day and night cycle also doesnt mean its real, and can instead also be used/imitated with skyboxes. Caines concept of a Sun and a Moon in the circus too are also not reminiscient of real size

Do you agree?

 

[DaReaperMan]

You know, we've been having these arguments since episode 2, and the arguments really don't change, do they? Is there any proof of Skybox beyond "video game"? I think we'll be waiting for a long while...

 

[IDK3465]

Do you just so happen to be from Discord or Reddit or something? Because coincidentally I ended up responding to someone in my blog yesterday to debunk them.

Anyhow, I disagree with the downgrade. The fact that Caine has been shown to make dimensions like the Candy Canyon Kingdom (Episode 2) and Spudsy's (Episode 4) which have a day and night cycle implies that they are more than just kilometers in size. As for the sudden exclusion of the stars in the ending of episode 1, it can mostly be attributed to an animation error given how every other time we see the Grounds, there is a sky. Saying that it's a skybox because it's a video game shouldn't work as Caine has been known to make worlds with day and night cycles as stated earlier, meaning that these skies are very much real.

I'm sorry, Psycho, but I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. A virtual world that seemingly has a full night sky doesn't mean the night sky is actually real, and, if it were, it would cause WAY more problems for the verse than it solves. Like, this shit isn't No Man's Sky, we see that the actual size and graphics of the circus are pretty rudimentary, likely to fit in the processing power the AIs would probably guzzle up, assuming Caine would want to render THOUSANDS of life-size stars is simply too much of a logical leap for it to be a definitive rating imo.

I think, if we want to keep the 4-A and MFTL+ stuff, we're gonna need to leave it as a possibility at best because it just takes too many assumptions for us to consider reliably realisticallyplausible

 

[Bsk_lyree]

You know, we've been having these arguments since episode 2, and the arguments really don't change, do they? Is there any proof of Skybox beyond "video game"? I think we'll be waiting for a long while...

Why do you ask that when there's only one answer? This is clearly an animation about being trapped in a virtual world. If you expect another answer then there won't be one.

 

[MrSpockVulcan]

The worlds have a day and night cycle, and Cain calls the circus a "cosmic buffet." To expect the characters to travel to space to prove that stars are realistically sized is pedantic.

The circus isn't a video game; it's an incomparably more advanced simulation of reality, something like The Matrix.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Why do you ask that when there's only one answer? This is clearly an animation about being trapped in a virtual world. If you expect another answer then there won't be one.

Then you also need to take into account: Minecraft, World of Warcraft, Terraria, you know, games that have skyboxes that also stop you from reaching into infinity and beyond. Which is how every skybox in games that let you go up really far act: They put a damn limit in place via invisible wall, they don't let you stop seeing the place you're supposed to be via distance making it tiny but instead via constricted vision(a game like Terraria), or fog(Minecraft/WoW), and sometimes that doesn't even happen in games like Overwatch.

 

[Bsk_lyree]

The worlds have a day and night cycle, and Cain calls the circus a "cosmic buffet." To expect the characters to travel to space to prove that stars are realistically sized is pedantic.

I've tried to refute this in the comments above.

The circus isn't a video game; it's an incomparably more advanced simulation of reality, something like The Matrix.

I'm tired of discussing this pls, I already said this is not very relevant in this debunk speed

 

[MrSpockVulcan]

I've tried to refute this in the comments above.

To say that Cain is lying about the world he created having a cosmos is not a good argument, especially when we see that the worlds have a starry sky and a day-night cycle.

I'm tired of discussing this pls, I already said this is not very relevant in this debunk speed

I'm not the one calling a simulation that is incomparably more advanced than anything in real life a video game

 

[StrymULTRA]

Tbf we do have a precedent with not allowing virtual worlds to be fully 4-A due to just having stars as backgrounds, as for Danganronpa for example we have the simulation of Jabberwock island at just Small City sized despite it containing a day-night cycle by showing a sun in the day and a starry sky in the night.

It's something I've explained to Psycho as well here when discussing the feat (all the evidence and context for it being a simulation is presented in the calc too), so I suppose that this is a thread to decide whether or not both of these instances should be treated as 4-A or not, as the context and surroundings are basically the same, given this thread is the first to tackle such a topic after all.

 

[Bsk_lyree]

Then you also need to take into account: Minecraft, World of Warcraft, Terraria, you know, games that have skyboxes that also stop you from reaching into infinity and beyond. Which is how every skybox in games that let you go up really far act: They put a damn limit in place via invisible wall, they don't let you stop seeing the place you're supposed to be via distance making it tiny but instead via constricted vision(a game like Terraria), or fog(Minecraft/WoW), and sometimes that doesn't even happen in games like Overwatch.

 Unlike the case you mentioned, Minecraft, etc, use a procedural generation (RNG) system... Honestly, I don't know why you're bringing this argument up.
Animation about simulation/game ≠ literal game

 

[MrSpockVulcan]

Tbf we do have a precedent with not allowing virtual worlds to be fully 4-A due to just having stars as backgrounds, as for Danganronpa for example we have the simulation of Jabberwock island at just Small City sized despite it containing a day-night cycle by showing a sun in the day and a starry sky in the night.

It's something I've explained to Psycho as well here when discussing the feat (all the evidence and context for it being a simulation is presented in the calc too), so I suppose that this is a thread to decide whether or not both of these instances should be treated as 4-A or not, as the context and surroundings are basically the same, given this thread is the first to tackle such a topic after all.

And what about the guy who created everything, calling what he created a "cosmos," adding to all of that...

 

[StrymULTRA]

Then you also need to take into account: Minecraft, World of Warcraft, Terraria, you know, games that have skyboxes that also stop you from reaching into infinity and beyond. Which is how every skybox in games that let you go up really far act: They put a damn limit in place via invisible wall, they don't let you stop seeing the place you're supposed to be via distance making it tiny but instead via constricted vision(a game like Terraria), or fog(Minecraft/WoW), and sometimes that doesn't even happen in games like Overwatch.

I'd like to mention that these simulations have heavy evidence of being universes, for DDLC we need a lenghty AP section AND a long note on Monika's profile to prove that her game world is not 10-C, 8-B or whatever but a full Low 2-C universe. Heck we have folks still arguing whether SAO should be treated as 10-C and all lol.

And what about the guy who created everything, calling what he created a "cosmos," adding to all of that...

A house could technically be called a universe if that's all the person knows, as a "universe" is the totality of everything, so the statement doesn't really mean much imo.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I'm tired of discussing this pls, I already said this is not very relevant in this debunk speed

Then there’s the idea that the Grounds are large enough to contain the sun, moon, and stars. That just doesn’t track. What we’re seeing is a skybox. The visible sky is limited to the scale of a small island, not an actual cosmic structure. If we start treating every decorative background as literal astronomy, things get silly very fast.
The “cosmic buffet” line is also doing way more work here than it should. “Cosmic” doesn’t automatically mean outer space. Coming from Caine a show host who constantly exaggerates and speaks in flashy, over-the-top language it reads far more like poetic flair or hyperbole. It could just as easily be referring to the variety of adventures and themes available, not anything astronomically large.

Sorry but with this you lowkey have asked to argue whether the Digital Circus is a cosmic sized realm lol.