I crashed hard idk wtf happened, I haven't read any reply since this so idk if it's been tackled but eh.
It's accepted, they're also the same model (stated). They're literally identical.
If it's accepted on profile, you need to argue with that in mind, or make a CRT.
I brought up RE4 because that's when the craziness of Resident Evil was more in your face.
Which pales to Raiden even then?
But not how this works, you can't use feats from characters after they've grown a bunch, to backscale to outskilling them before they grew a bunch and did wacky things.
You're stuck using the feats they had at the time Wesker fought them in that status unless you can prove they didn't grow at all, but we 100% know characters like Chris and Leon grew exponentially in skill.
Even by Resident Evil One, Chris was a member of STARs, an elite Special Forces division made up of ex-military which he joined only after leaving the Airforce.
That's not even MGS3 goomba level...
Admittedly, I've only seen gameplay clips of MGS2, so I wasn't exactly sure what kind of bullshit these guys were on pre-MGR:R, but I was only just trying to argue that Wesker isn't the flopping fish that everyone seemed to portray him as.
Did you not read the scaling chain in the profile?
Please do not make me repeat what is literally on profile. There's a
whole section for this, two even, three if you count CQC. Like this isn't a lil niche line hidden in the feat box, it's a big section.
But you misunderstand, nobody is saying Wesker is helpless,
in general.
But he is when he'd get mauled in skill by characters that wouldn't even be able to land a hit on Raiden.
Like Wesker is skilled, but that doesn't mean Batman also wouldn't humiliate him too, some characters just eclipse in certain categories even if the other person themselves ain't half bad in it as well.
This is true. Though Wesker has been shown to abuse his stats more against other blatant superpowers like Alexia and other BoWs, so there's a chance he won't be doing that here once he recognizes that Raiden can actually keep up with him.
He won't realize though, if he ever gets into the position, he's screwed.
In CQC? Raiden outskills, gets him into a lock, pops.
From afar? Raiden wins that eventually via stingers' homing.
To far? Stealth.
You say "abuse", but there isn't anything
to abuse here. His main advantage even over other bios, that being speed, doesn't exist, he has a current AP advantage, but it's not enough to maul Raiden or anything, especially when he's punked characters around Wesker's lv.
Wesker's LS is actually... far lower than it should be. It's approved on the profiles that he's comparable/superior to the Malacoda Whale and Excella's Uroboros state, but they kinda... Failed to reflect on that when it came to LS.
Raiden would still be higher currently even with that in mind, dude is higher end 6 digit tons. But that's not relevant here, it isn't listed.
I also wasn't sure if pre-MGR:R Raiden invoked grabs too much because in MGR:R, even when he's unarmed, he doesn't' do it too much and just beats the shit out of you.
Man, PLEASE read the profile. There's like three whole tactic sections, come on dude...
I would argue that going through the Mansion absolutely required skill. I wasn't trying to insinuate that it was anywhere near on the level of Raiden,
Then it doesn't matter? Wesker isn't trying to outskill a random black ops, he's trying to outskill Raiden. If the feats you're using don't compare to Raiden, they're not helpful in a test of skill against him to begin with.
This is basically saying a normal toddler who watched a cartoon and mimicked play fighting, has a chance against a champion class boxer.
but Chris - an already mentioned ex-military apart of a Special Forces unit - easily got overpowered by a Wesker who didn't even have the Progenitor virus at the time.
That's nothing? That's below even the MGS equivalent of a Goomba, by over 18 steps.
You're describing the equivalent of the weakest MGS characters in skill prowess having a fight, and framing it like it has any business here.
And Chris only got better with time, going through even more shit and fighting more psychological horrors for eleven straight years before confronting Wesker again who, even after being poisoned twice, was still able to compete with Chris and Sheva even with the majority of his advantages being washed away via overdose of the Progenitor virus.
Raiden was able to beat someone in a skill based fight, against someone just as strong as Wesker,
faster than Wesker, all while exhausted, drugged with a crippling amount of phenobarbital, and implied to be having a seizure, while being mentally tortured, in a fighting style he only learned like 5m ago, when that style was the other dude's specialty, WHILE that dude also had superhuman learning, analytical prediction, senses, and precog and decades of training as a test tube baby.
I'll say this again but
read the profile. There's an entire section for this.
I'm not saying read it all, like obviously it's big, you can't be expected to memorize it all right away, but read the sections relevant to your questions.
Pre-Revengeance, what are some examples of MGS character's skill? Really, all I'm trying to prove and say is that Wesker could, and isn't just a fish dead-in-water as soon as they come to swapping hands.
READ THE PROFILE PLEASE, I AIN'T EVEN SAYING ALL OF IT BUT AT LEAST THE SKILL SECTION 
Raiden IS still 8-C+ though, which means he'd be around 1.9 Tons, which is probably the closest you can get to High 8-C without actually being it, which seems fair to give to Raiden.
Well no, we already have multiple High 8-C feats, honestly when Fox drops he's being forced up to 3.5 tons off him alone, that's already locked, which we'll do next batch
blame fries for not mentioning that shit till literally the day I published it too, now the iffy part is if Mantis' microwave feat goes through, it might be a lil higher honestly it's complex I'm not to sure on it yet, but none of this matters though because
I'm literally the person who wrote it all out,
including the scaling explanation, on profile, explaining his actual value in greater depth.
This isn't me saying trust me bro, it's actually on said profile already in greater depth explaining the nuance behind the current rating.
He is
not 1.9 tons, he is also
not 4 tons, but
he is in this weird pseudo threshold of being a shit ton above 3x 1.14t, and less than 3x 1.14 tons off Solidus, by a negligible amount, he can still eat his attacks at that level tho, damage dispersal helps that, skull suit ampage boosts it a lil, etc.
I didn't really know what to make of that, honestly. Resident Evil doesn't have any kind of... Fourth-Wall meta functions like that. Can Raiden just "spawn" them? How would that even work?
He just hits the random 4th wall thing, and it screws Wesker over, stuns him for a decent chunk of time, like 10-15 seconds. It can be chained too. And of course RE doesn't have that, that's what makes it dangerous, Wesker can't compensate.
They spawn based on Wesker's reactions, like being aware of Raiden, being surprised, becoming alert, confused, etc. Basically any time Wesker "reacts", unfortunately tho, this counts becoming undazed too and gathering oneself to become alert again, enabling chaining.
Wesker's profile actually looked newer given that stuff was bullet-pointed. My bad. I tried to save his profile eons ago and I guess it still needs fixing...
It most certainly does, I think Eggman was trying to do something but idk what's going on with that atm.
t did take him a hot minute, and I'd normally agree that yeah, waaayy too slow against someone like Raiden, but that wasn't a normal circumstance. It was one of Wesker's first awakening with his powers. He was extremely tired, dealing with absurd blood loss, and was probably as close to death as he could've been.
That's all true, but so is the fact it still isn't combat applicable even when he does get used to his powers. Wesker's best feats, are kind of superficial, he isn't healing what you're implying even after getting better in short order, that still takes time.
Normally, Wesker's regeneration works faster than the snap of your fingers. There's not even hints of damage left after getting hit with rockets, shot to hell with machine guns, snipers, shotguns, and being dropped from hundreds of feet into the air. All done while the one weakness he had was in effect, too.
And yet
none of those actually damaged him a whole lot either. You're conflating basic wear and tear regen, with larger scale extreme bouts of damage and because he can heal superficial damage instantly, that must mean he's liable to heal things like having his head blow apart, shredded to bits, or gored just as fast.
It doesn't, you need to show he can do so just as fast regardless of if he got better, as "better" is arbitrary, it wouldn't extend to larger wounds without showings.
Wesker doesn't come into battles unarmed,
He very much prefers CQC. He also doesn't have anywhere close to the ammo amount Raiden has, In a battle of ammunitions, Raiden is outlasting and then we're back to square one.
and he's shown to be capable of using the environment to his advantage if he wants to for simple traversal;
So does Raiden explicitly. This isn't an advantage, Raiden also has far greater training doing exactly that.
he could 100% incorporate those into battle.
So could Raiden, the better question is, what do you expect that to do against Raiden? Like how can Wesker utilize the environment in a way to do anything here?
How good is their homing? In-game and even in cutscenes,
Wesker kinda waits until the last minute before getting out of the way. Can they turn that quickly to catch him mid-dodge?
Man they can track down and chase a Harrier 2 fighter jet doing u-turns over hundreds of meters. This is
on the profile.
Also, you just failed to actually tackle the point. Wesker dodges last second, and then what? He didn't get rid of it, it's still coming, like it doesn't magically vanish if you dodge it once. The problem is still there, and time spent dodging that, is time spent not dodging whatever else is being throw at him.
Even if they can, after Wesker heals from the first one (which would take seconds), he's going to be more wary of them.
Seconds is a tremendous amount of time when Raiden can spam them or mix in tranqs, danmaku, or more. First one is auto win, Wesker absolutely doesn't have the resistance for that. Second one removes glasses, assuming he even needs or at worst, just do it again and again, Wesker isn't eating all of them given they can stagger people far stronger than him.
He's likely to shoot them out of the air or cause them to explode prematurely some other way.
Not a good enough argument, "some of other way", what other way?
Explain, what other way does Wesker actually have to do so? And what way does he have to do so that doesn't take his attention off Raiden? He
can't do both at the same time.
You're making my own argument for me at this point:
If Wesker shoots them? He's burning ammo, Raiden has more, so it's a time waster, not a true solution, that still gives Raiden a gap to multi-task while Wesker is forced to diver attention, and giving Raiden any chance is suicide.
You've been unironically arguing Wesker has any business even touching Raiden the past few posts among others, or just ignoring things already accepted on profile.
Unfortunately, most of your arguments are answered directly by the profile, you just need to read it, most of it is there, I've made sure of it.
The biggest problem here hasn't even been talked about in full, like Wesker can be a nuisance, but not because he's "skilled" or fast or whatnot.
I didn't see that on the profile, but maybe I just skimmed over it.
Well, I know for a fact you didn't read the scaling section given some of your questions above...
Definitely not arguing that Raiden wouldn't die within seconds, mainly I'm just arguing for Wesker actually standing a chance since I'm just seeing 'lol shitstomp" plastered on the discussion.
that's going to get him killed tho right, arguing it isn't a stomp is going to validate it being added
The candela for Resident Evil's is probably in the millions. They've had futuristic tech since like - ******' 1998 in-verse. And in the time of RE5, with things like Umbrella lasers, they've been incorporating that tech far more into weapons.
Not "probably",
prove it.
MGS has had stuff like dark matter generators and gundams since the 60s, having sci-fi tech isn't an excuse to just vibe out a value.
You could use the minimums ig as a safety net but anything higher you'd need statements or showings for.
Definitely military-grade for sure.
That, can be anywhere from a few hundred K to millions, it's why I asked, it's not exactly a one and done type of deal.
I'm actually not sure how long it would take for Wesker to regrow his head. The jump in his healing is disembowelment to a single tissue. But the latter is overtime.
In which case it's not combat applicable.
Can you provide some proof for the breadth of the claymores and grenades?
Man there is literally scans saying
verbatim they launch over 700 projectiles in a 70 degree arc fan spread,
on the profile, in the section for it, twice.
Wesker's able to dodge the former AFTER he's already stepped on them. And it's not like shrapnel is that debilitating, he'll be done healing that pretty quickly.
Since when could he heal his glasses? You missed why I mentioned them to begin with, it wasn't to pump him full of holes, it was an example of how he could easily remove the glasses your arguments hinge on currently.
Also you ignored the fact Raiden's are equipped with optic camouflage that bends light rendering them invisible and you don't
need to step on them, they're motion sensor.
How would Wesker dodge what he can't see and doesn't need to actually touch to set off? And if even a single of the hundreds of pellets strikes his glasses, he's done for.
Also, you'd really think so, but Wesker's latter boss fights make it extremely hard to get those things off. I'm talking explosives in the face.
Why are you telling me this? I've played the game.
The difference, is that he's not fighting someone like 5x weaker than Raiden, thousands of times less skilled, and with a 100x speed gap. Honestly the fact Wesker was pushed as much as he was in that fight I'd argue is a
anti-feat for him unless Chris has some ludicrous skill slop I'm not aware of that'd justify Wesker not neg diffing despite his advantages.
I'll give Raiden this though, Wesker's... Very inconsistent with his writing. In the previous games, he's a tactical genius that lets STARs take as many steps forwards as they can, all the while sabotaging them along the way and making sure he gets more of it than they do. He's capable of tracking stealthy and fast-moving BoWs like Hunters and out-maneuvering the likes of Chris and Leon, the latter of whom is stealthy in his own-right.
...But then in RE5, you just turn off the lights and you can just kind of hit him with anything.
But also, he can just choose to
know where you are anyways? Granted, Raiden's stealth is probably way better, but I'm just saying Wesker's shown inconsistencies. You could probably just say "he's ******* with Chris" and you'd be absolutely right, but when fighting literally anyone else who tries it, who knows which path he'll decide to go down.
Inconsistent character writing is not an excuse, that is simply his character at that point and how he acts.
There is
nothing in RE that is even a fraction as stealthy as the least stealthy MGS character.
Raiden can sneak past dozens of geniuses with super senses, and stay completely undetected, he also conveniently has multiple radars that tell him exactly when someone is aware of him, their perception, stat of awareness, where their focus is and more, making him basically impossible to detect even if you could detect him because he'll always know if someone is actually aware of him, and work around it in real time.
I still kind of want to call into question the legitimacy of the argument. It just seems to be a mechanic of the game that Raiden takes advantage of, rather than Raiden being able to spawn them onto people?
Yeah, it is a mechanic of the game he takes advantage of, it's also canon?
Ya know you're talking about the verse where one of the major characters starts reading your memory card and talking like Deadpool, or the main character comes in with the NG+ bonus infinite ammo item from the last game and starts mowing down dudes, or going back to the other dude how when he came back in a new game he complained that technology got better so he couldn't do his funny 4th wall trick, or even just Raiden and Snake talking about using the 4th wall stuff in action to do things like tell when someone is going to wake up. They literally canonized the fact one dude can throw infinite knives in gameplay saying "oh that's just his infinite bowie knife lmao".
Raiden can visually perceive someone's reactions and statuses, and interact with them to great effect or utility. This is outright yapped about in game, and it's accepted in profile. Unless you want to make a CRT to get it removed for whatever reason, it's a thing you're going to have take here.
When Wesker retreats, he runs AT you. So I guess it just depends on if Raiden is standing directly over his flashbangs.
Uhm. Wesker gon die if he does that?
If they get into CQC, he gets mauled,
badly.
He will
never lad a hit on Raiden in CQC. And Wesker is nothing special he hasn't dealt with before, Vamp is 100% worse.
Raiden
will get him into a grapple almost immediately as well, his basic CQC at that point is strikes + grabs.
Then Wesker dies because he has a tremendous LS disadvantage, and Raiden just squeezes his head off (which is one of his go to even), or even just pop him with a tranq while deadlocked.
And again, the Stingers CAN be dealt with.
Yeah sure, but not without also giving Raiden a window of opportunity to get something else done, whether it be multiple more stingers, tranqs, planting traps, slipping into stealth, getting in for CQC, etc.
It's just whether or not Wesker can survive understanding how the first one works. Which I think he can. He recovers from explosives in about a second pretty much each time they're thrown at him.
A second is a massive amount of time when his foe can quintuple that in a second, or instantly with in less than a second of free action.
Now, you didn't actually tackle the major points here, you just handwaved it:
How is Wesker getting past 200db?
Prove the RE grenades are as bright, or brighter, than the MGS ones to make his shades a legitimate counterpoint, otherwise there's no reason to assume they'd be sufficient even if they are for the other type.
Prove Wesker can even tag Raiden? I said it above, but read the scaling chain, that's simplified as it is but it's there precisely for this type of scenario.
If Wesker dodges INTO Raiden like you just stated, how does Wesker avoid getting his head crushed or something when Raiden inevitably gets him into a headlock?
Even if Wesker can deal with Stingers, you're ignoring how Wesker lacks any multi-task utility options, whether he dodges or shoots, that's a window Raiden can, and will, exploit.
How does Wesker get passed funny 4th wall stuff? It happens once he's dead, he won't ever get to act again.
How does Wesker prevent stealth?
How does Wesker avoid something simple like a claymore? They're both invisible and sensor based, they'd detonate regardless, and it ain't like Raiden only needs to set one, whether he does it in stealth, while Wesker has to avoid stingers, or dazed via 4th wall stuff, either way (though in 1 and 3, Raiden has immediate win options without going through this step so...).
If stealth or 4th wall, how does Wesker get passed the ludicrously enhanced tranqs? A drastically weaker one can put people to sleep for like a week with a light tap, and Raiden's can cripple those who are immune to those ones, x7.
We haven't even got into some stuff but your current arguments simply don't make sense, it's mostly just assuming Wesker has a chance in scenarios that are basically a death sentence, and a stat gap, but the stat gap while there currently,
isn't to the extent you're framing it as, and even worse, isn't anything Raiden hasn't dealt with from people just as strong, even faster, and ludicrously more skilled than Wesker.
Wesker's only real problematic hurdle here is the healing, but there's like a dozen ways around that, meanwhile Wesker has to basically kill Raiden 6 times at worst, all without losing his shades (and that's me being generous), all while avoid a single tranq (if Raiden stealths it's game over, he has tranq snipers), 4th wall slop which Wesker would have zero idea is even possible to even consider it being a thing he needs to watch out for, multi-tasking, etc.
