One Piece General Discussion: Elbaph

[Legion350]

I’m going to vote on the character poll later, I think it’s interesting hearing from other fans about their least/most favorite characters.

I get the frustration about certain Straw Hats, because while there isn’t anyone in the main cast I actively dislike, I feel like some of them haven’t gotten enough shine since Post Timeskip.

On the current crew, I think Usopp is my least favorite. Not enough to say I don’t like the character anymore, but he has been more disappointing than I hope for a while now.

I wouldn’t expect the non Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, & Jimbei crew to do as much of the fighting, but they still have a lot of moments to shine. Like Nami refusing to accept Luffy's defeat from Kaido, was a great moment even though she obviously stood no chance. Usopp has had his moments, but it feels like he’s been pushed into the background.

 

[EtherealCrater]

I calced Hajrudin punching Machvise.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

On the current crew, I think Usopp is my least favorite. Not enough to say I don’t like the character anymore, but he has been more disappointing than I hope for a while now.

My least favorite is jinbe, he doesn't really have any great personal moments outside of vague good achievements that he has done and is doing

I’m going to vote on the character poll later, I think it’s interesting hearing from other fans about their least/most favorite characters.

Btw you can vote multiple times, I believe once a day

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I calced Hajrudin punching Machvise.

Hajrudin was able to shake the whole bird cage with his force, while the multiple meteors was unable to do that

Soo you might have more information or scaling you could use there

 

[Jropzone1]

Can someone give any reasoning for why killer still has "above average" stamina when he's shown to have at least relative stamina to Kid?

 

[Antvasima]

Can someone give any reasoning for why killer still has "above average" stamina when he's shown to have at least relative stamina to Kid?

If you can write a good justification text for superhuman stamina, you can probably modify his page with it.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Can someone give any reasoning for why killer still has "above average" stamina when he's shown to have at least relative stamina to Kid?

Scans?

 

[EtherealCrater]

Hajrudin was able to shake the whole bird cage with his force, while the multiple meteors was unable to do that

Soo you might have more information or scaling you could use there

The problem with that is that the meteor's are contentious in the first place, which are undeservedly disregarded due to "breaking KE rules" despite there being a perfectly reasonable explanation.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

The problem with that is that the meteor's are contentious in the first place, which are undeservedly disregarded due to "breaking KE rules" despite there being a perfectly reasonable explanation.

They aren't disapproved/rejected tho, every op calc can be contentious but I get what you mean

 

[EtherealCrater]

They aren't disapproved/rejected tho, every op calc can be contentious but I get what you mean

That's the last thing I heard about them. That they break KE rules, so I assumed they were actually rejected.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

That they break KE rules,

the "KE rules" being that it should've damaged dressrosa more... Even tho we literally see the birdcage stop it's momentum so it ain't even valid to begin with

The blue sfx's imply that the meteor slowed down after getting sliced

 

[Damage3245]

the "KE rules" being that it should've damaged dressrosa more... Even tho we literally see the birdcage stop it's momentum so it ain't even valid to begin with

In the manga, it seems quite clear to me that the meteors weren't significantly slowed as they passed through the Birdcage. If they did, then the lead meteor would've been hit by the meteors behind it after it impacted the Birdcage, or they all would've been bunched up against the surface of the Birdcage as each of them slowed down instead of them all passing through in a continuous line.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

In the manga, it seems quite clear to me that the meteors weren't significantly slowed as they passed through the Birdcage. If they did, then the lead meteor would've been hit by the meteors behind it after it impacted the Birdcage, or they all would've been bunched up against the surface of the Birdcage as each of them slowed down instead of them all passing through in a continuous line.

getting slowed down doesn't mean 110000 m / s to 10 m / s instantly, and then the meteors are coming in from an angle, so they have more time to drop downwards and not crash into each other... The people running away and screaming while it's falling also proves that as well

Also that wouldn't even be true as the meteors aren't even directly behind one another, as seen even when they land

 

[EtherealCrater]

In the manga, it seems quite clear to me that the meteors weren't significantly slowed as they passed through the Birdcage. If they did, then the lead meteor would've been hit by the meteors behind it after it impacted the Birdcage, or they all would've been bunched up against the surface of the Birdcage as each of them slowed down instead of them all passing through in a continuous line.

A fodder marine had enough time to warn others about the meteor after hitting the birdcage and the only other person to react is Sabo. Someone we know for sure is fast enough to react prior to hitting the cage.

 

[KingTempest]

The problem with that is that the meteor's are contentious in the first place, which are undeservedly disregarded due to "breaking KE rules" despite there being a perfectly reasonable explanation.

One Piece: Dressrosa Meteor Kinetic Energy Rules

A thread passed stating that the meteors break Kinetic Energy rules due to the calculation of the meteors flying from the atmosphere not equaling the damage. This is flawed. The thread deduced that because the strings effectively took 0.011545454% of the energy due to surface area, the speed...

vsbattles.com

 

[EtherealCrater]

Here are my thoughts on it.

A. Theres a perfectly reasonable explanation as to why the aftermath doesn't match the KE of the meteors which is the strings halting their momentum.
B. If a character were to punch a meteor and halt its movement, do we scale the character by the surface area of their punch? No, we scale them to the power of the meteor.

What's more likely? That the strings absorbed over 99% of the KE or the strings absorbed less than 0.1% and the rest disappeared into thin air?

 

[EtherealCrater]

I've been thinking about this for a bit and should Bajrang Gun get the 4x value from Gear 4th?

"Gear 4th's compression, and Gear 5th's expansion" is part of the justification for it being higher than the previous value.

"At least 4x stronger than his Gear 3rd thanks to the compressive strength of Gear 4th." Is the justification for Gear 4th.

So, with Bajrang Gun, Luffy is not only expanding his fist but also compressing it like with Gear 4th meaning that the logic of the 4x multiplier should also apply here.

59.44 x 4 = 237.76 Zettatons

 

[Jropzone1]

Scans?

Fought alongside everyone else on roof top and recovered faster than Kid

 

[EtherealCrater]

Fought alongside everyone else on roof top and recovered faster than Kid

Yea, Above Average Stamina makes 0 sense. Not even Athletic Stamina? Killer's stamina by all means is Superhuman.

 

[Jropzone1]

If you can write a good justification text for superhuman stamina, you can probably modify his page with it.

I would argue the justification is actually already on his profile, just without the scans for some reason.

(Fought the Yonko alongside Kid, Law, Zoro, and Luffy on the rooftop for an extended period of time both on and off-screen, even though he took damage from Big Mom. Was hit by Big Mom's Fulgora and recovered faster than Kid did)

You can arguably add the fight with zoro too

 

[Jropzone1]

Yea, Above Average Stamina makes 0 sense. Not even Athletic Stamina? Killer's stamina by all means is Superhuman.

I figured it was probably a mistake while putting in Intelligence lol

 

[EtherealCrater]

I figured it was probably a mistake while putting in Intelligence lol

It definitely seems more like a mistake than an actual rating he should have...not to mention "Above Average" isn't even apart of the Stamina tiers.

 

[Antvasima]

The new live-action season has been released people!

 

[MochOath]

just monkeying around

Monkey D. Luffy vs Mori Jin [0-0-0]

OOH OOH AAH AAH Monkey D. Luffy (Final Saga) Attack Potency: up to at least 59.44 Zettatons with Gear 5th, higher with Conqueror's Haki Infusion, even higher over time, higher with Bajrang Gun Durability: 3.014 Zettatons with Gear 5th, 59.44 Zettatons with Armament Haki Lifting Strength...

vsbattles.com

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

just monkeying around

Monkey D. Luffy vs Mori Jin [0-0-0]

OOH OOH AAH AAH Monkey D. Luffy (Final Saga) Attack Potency: up to at least 59.44 Zettatons with Gear 5th, higher with Conqueror's Haki Infusion, even higher over time, higher with Bajrang Gun Durability: 3.014 Zettatons with Gear 5th, 59.44 Zettatons with Armament Haki Lifting Strength...

vsbattles.com

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Fought alongside everyone else on roof top and recovered faster than Kid

Didn't Big Mom one shot him with a bolt from Zeus?
He got up about 2 minutes later but it still happened

 

[Kachon123]

Didn't Big Mom one shot him with a bolt from Zeus?
He got up about 2 minutes later but it still happened

He recovered better than Kid, which means his stamina should be least as good.

 

[EtherealCrater]

I calculated the LS value for the Gura-Gura no mi shaking the planet. Pre Stellar LS meta incoming?

 

[Jropzone1]

Didn't Big Mom one shot him with a bolt from Zeus?
He got up about 2 minutes later but it still happened

Named attack (Indra) that he quickly recovered from, wouldn't call it a one-shot, regardless, Kid and Killer fight alongside each other for a lot of rooftop, having similar stamina showings.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

He recovered better than Kid, which means his stamina should be least as good.

I meant the Indra bolt he took during the rooftop. I think what you posted was the aftermath of Fulgora, which was from Hera, not Zeus.

Named attack (Indra) that he quickly recovered from, wouldn't call it a one-shot, regardless, Kid and Killer fight alongside each other for a lot of rooftop, having similar stamina showings.

Maybe not a one shot but imo it shows his stamina isn't on the level of Kidd. Plus Kidd fought Big Mom for a while, Killer can't really do that.

 

[Kachon123]

I meant the Indra bolt he took during the rooftop. I think what you posted was the aftermath of Fulgora, which was from Hera, not Zeus.

Fair

 

[Damage3245]

I calculated the LS value for the Gura-Gura no mi shaking the planet. Pre Stellar LS meta incoming?

I really wouldn't categorise that feat as being Lifting Strength.

 

[EtherealCrater]

I really wouldn't categorise that feat as being Lifting Strength.

It's mass undergoing acceleration, how is it not Lifting Strength?

 

[KingTempest]

What is he LIFTING

 

[Jropzone1]

I meant the Indra bolt he took during the rooftop. I think what you posted was the aftermath of Fulgora, which was from Hera, not Zeus.

Maybe not a one shot but imo it shows his stamina isn't on the level of Kidd. Plus Kidd fought Big Mom for a while, Killer can't really do that.

He can't do that because he doesn't have as much power as Kid. His stamina should not be significantly different than Kid's, or everyone else on the rooftop. Characters like Usopp and Nami have far higher stamina, which makes no sense.

 

[MochOath]

same swordsman, different lizard

Roronoa Zoro vs Godzilla [0-0-0]

wait... that isnt kaidou... Roronoa Zoro (Beginning of Timeskip) Attack Potency: 200.99 Gigatons, higher with Armament Haki, 17.253 Teratons with Strongest Attacks Durability: 200.99 Gigatons, higher with Armament Haki, 17.253 Teratons with Nine-Sword Style Lifting Strength: 167.572 trillion...

vsbattles.com

 

[EtherealCrater]

What is he LIFTING

What factors would disqualify this feat from being valid?

Vibrations create movement. Movement involves Mass and Acceleration. Force = Mass * Acceleration.

The movement being caused by quakes and not physically doesnt render the feat itself invalid, it only changes how a character scales to it. Whitebeard would be (At least Class P physically, Pre Stellar with Gura-Gura no mi)

The Lifting Strength page doesn't say anything about how a feat like this wouldn't be valid. Shaking something still requires force.

 

[KingTempest]

What factors would disqualify this feat from being valid?

Vibrations create movement. Movement involves Mass and Acceleration. Force = Mass * Acceleration.

The movement being caused by quakes and not physically doesnt render the feat itself invalid, it only changes how a character scales to it. Whitebeard would be (At least Class P physically, Pre Stellar with Gura-Gura no mi)

The Lifting Strength page doesn't say anything about how a feat like this wouldn't be valid. Shaking something still requires force.

Shaking something by grabbing and moving it is not the same as shaking something as hitting it.

Literally anything with movement involves mass and acceleration. Am I gonna say me sending someone flying with a headbutt is lifting strength?
No.

Lifting Strength is defined as the mass that an individual can lift on Earth. In other words, it measures the amount of upward force a character can produce. As such, pushing and pulling feats are also considered part of this statistic as long as they have proper calculations to account for the difference from lifting. The weight of something pulled across a horizontal surface often needs to account for the appropriate friction coefficient after finding the mass of the object. Telekinesis or other similar abilities must be separated from physical strength when used in a lifting feat. Tearing also falls within this category, but it is unreliable for calculating overall lifting ability most of the time, as the force used in a tearing motion is much lower than a lift, as a tearing motion uses much fewer muscle groups and is an awkward application of force compared to other movements. Likewise, throwing an object a certain height upwards can be used as a lifting feat, as doing so would require greater strength than merely lifting the object.

While Striking Strength measures the energy of a character's physical attacks, Lifting Strength measures the amount of mass they can lift, which derives from the amount of force a character can produce. As such, they measure two different physical quantities. Furthermore, fiction commonly features characters capable of striking with vastly greater energy than needed to lift weights they struggle with. As such, to accommodate for fictional portrayals, our indexes don't assume that a character that can physically produce the amount of energy used in lifting an object by a certain height can also lift it if said character didn't explicitly display such lifting feats. Thus, Lifting Strength and Striking Strength are generally not comparable and should be evaluated separately.

It is not lifting strength

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Shaking something still requires force.

That force is made from impact tho, lifting would only work whenever he tilted the tectonic plates which is not shaking or a quake

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

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