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UNDERTALE/DELTARUNE [shiny new] DISCUSSION THEAD

All this talks about whether we could change Prophecy in the wider fandom reminded me that we don't currently accept Prophecy as supernatural system of fate. It's obvious that without fate manip you can't kill Fun Gang, since they are yet to fulfil their role in the Prophecy; banish the Angel heaven, stop the Roaring, and such (KO and BFR are still valid wincons though). Closest example I can think off is Bardock wish that guaranteed that Goku fate was to grown healthy(which saves his ass numerous times). Fun Gang doesn't have such thing currently, so I am wondering what kinda evidence do we need to get Prophecy accepted as system of fate.
I am collecting evidence here for now
 
Qurbonboev said:
All this talks about whether we could change Prophecy in the wider fandom reminded me that we don't currently accept Prophecy as supernatural system of fate. It's obvious that without fate manip you can't kill Fun Gang, since they are yet to fulfil their role in the Prophecy; banish the Angel heaven, stop the Roaring, and such (KO and BFR are still valid wincons though). Closest example I can think off is Bardock wish that guaranteed that Goku fate was to grown healthy(which saves his ass numerous times). Fun Gang doesn't have such thing currently, so I am wondering what kinda evidence do we need to get Prophecy accepted as system of fate.
I am collecting evidence here for now
Click to expand...
Not really a fan of the premise as without further chapters it's too much in theory territory but I'll follow.
 
StrymULTRA said:
Not really a fan of the premise as without further chapters it's too much in theory territory but I'll follow.
Click to expand...
Wdym? Prophecy is def intended as usual Fate and Destiny thing, right from Greek myths and tragedies.
It is foretold in space and time, known by Darkners and considered as important part of religion for Lightners.
"There is only one ending" - Toby. Gang is fated to save the Worlds from the Roaring, and during this they would face tragedy, which they can't avert. All attempts by Ralsei to change it were ultimately futile. Only potentially successful attempt is Weird Route.
(Theory territory is where I am talking about how shadow crystals quest is ultimately about collecting them in order to use their powers to challenge prophecy and obtain freedom from it (ERAM dialogue). And power of shadow crystals is the power of the will, or rather determination (kinda strange that this revelation from Japanese translation was bomb in the wider fandom, but not here). Consistent with Determination being called power to resolve fate in UT. And Gaster wanting to create new future with Player, one with highest determination around, and only one that can 100% deviate from the Prophecy(by giving up though). Obviously for now it's just a theory, a game theory. But moment chapter 5 drops and it confirms at least most of this yap, I am giving fate manipulation to at least anyone with peak Determination)
 
"Yo, we should give Fun Gang Blessed(Fate)"
Yeeeeeeeeeeah, the fun gang not getting any matchups 😭
long-story-short-its-over.png
 
Anonymous_Learner said:
"Yo, we should give Fun Gang Blessed(Fate)"
Yeeeeeeeeeeah, the fun gang not getting any matchups 😭
Click to expand...
Nah, BFR and KO are still valid wincons against people blessed by fate (Kid Goku has 4 W and 4 L on the profiles). Player would still remain main hurdle in a way of good matchups for Kris and Gang in whole
 
Qurbonboev said:
Nah, BFR and KO are still valid wincons against people blessed by fate
Click to expand...
Blessed by Fate + Kris just loading back even without the player=no fun gang matchups (a lot of people avoid Kris matchups as of late due to Determination meta 🥀)
Qurbonboev said:
(Kid Goku has 4 W and 4 L on the profiles).
Click to expand...
Kid Goku doesn't have a wall of hax, supporters who'll die behind their agenda, and the DT+Inf 5D Entity protection
Qurbonboev said:
Player would still remain main hurdle in a way of good matchups for Kris and Gang in whole
Click to expand...
true but a least with the rest of the gang you can just have Susie and Ralsei fight together since they have canonically repeatedly and not have matchups with Kris, Fun Gang matchups mean Kris and player are included an they pretty much stomp everyone due to DT meta
 
Anonymous_Learner said:
Kris just loading back even without the playe
Click to expand...
Kris has own time powers as only likely for now
Anonymous_Learner said:
supporters who'll die behind their agenda
Click to expand...
Thanks for praise
Anonymous_Learner said:
true but a least with the rest of the gang you can just have Susie and Ralsei fight together since they have canonically repeatedly and not have matchups with Kris, Fun Gang matchups mean Kris and player are included an they pretty much stomp everyone due to DT meta
Click to expand...
Susie and Ralsei never fought together without Kris IIRC, so we can't have Gang matchups without enby. Separate matches against Susie and Ralsei are still viable, and would remain as such even if hypothetical prophecy CRT goes through.
 
DaReaperMan said:
vsbattles.fandom.com

Aenarion

Aenarion, called "Aenarion the Defender," was the first Phoenix King of Ulthuan, the first monarch of the High Elves, sometimes also known as the first Champion of Light, and is the most revered High Elf of all time. Aenarion united all the kingdoms of Ulthuan and the entire race of Elves...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
This guy vs the Fun Gang!

You're lucky Thanquol doesn't have a profile yet because I'd make him fight the Fun Gang and go nuts when his meager amount of Skaven with him get shredded
Click to expand...
Btw, why didn't you made matchup with him yet?
(Don't tell me that his conceptual erasure range is only 2-A, so with DR Game World being 5D now, it became a stomp)
 
Last edited:
Qurbonboev said:
Kris has own time powers as only likely for now
Click to expand...
Why? He had his own save with his own name at the start of chapter 1 dark world
edit:about the whole fate thing,the prophecy predicting Lancer saying toothpaste then boy is a extremelly good evidence for that since it shows it can predict even useless momments of the future with no importance to the prophecy at all (also it would be really funny for it being one of the best evidences for such a massive upgrade)
 
I agree with the fate stuff but i DO think we should wait for more chapters to come out in case they give clarifying information (or just more supporting evidence), Chapter 5 isn't too far away anyways most likely.
Anonymous_Learner said:
supporters who'll die behind their agenda
Click to expand...
Our collective DT could give God a hernia
 
Edutyn said:
You could use the mass of the Zapper (already calculated) and try to find the mass of the green Pippins. And since they seem to be covered in thread/fabric (I'm not quite sure what it is), you could calculate the mass of the ball.
Click to expand...
I found better alternative for calculating mass. You too should prolly update your calc using it(also divide result of it by 3, since it's ultimate attack done by all three of them together)
 
Edutyn said:
Corrected. It gives 879,208030593 Tons of TNT (Multi-City Block Level+)
Click to expand...
At this point quick CRT needs to be made to establish them as legit sound waves since it's not as self evident as with other such projectiles. And we need more arguments for it.
For starters, icon of waves is same as icon for other projectiles that we accept as sound waves
 
I think I have gathered enough, so I am gonna do it now
vsbattles.com

Deltarune - Air waves are sound waves

This is quick and (hopefully) short CRT. Purpose of this CRT is to establish that the waves that are produced by "Maus" in fight with Mike trio are intended to be sound waves. There are already calcs that assume these as sound waves and use them as speed reference. So establishing their status...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
vsbattles.com

The nuking of Undertale: Part 1 out of 6 or 7

This part will be divided in three parts. Part 1: Applying Calc Group Thread changes (REMOVALS) Everything was talked about in this thread: https://vsbattles.com/threads/undertale-calculations-90-of-them-are-wrong.187924/ I will talk about the Recalc's later as Part 4 of the thread will...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
I left for just a couple of days WHAT THE **** is happening with this verse,thankfully i'm also a Extra's death fan so at least that verse doesn't give me a heart attack every time i open it
 
Qurbonboev said:
vsbattles.com

The nuking of Undertale: Part 1 out of 6 or 7

This part will be divided in three parts. Part 1: Applying Calc Group Thread changes (REMOVALS) Everything was talked about in this thread: https://vsbattles.com/threads/undertale-calculations-90-of-them-are-wrong.187924/ I will talk about the Recalc's later as Part 4 of the thread will...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
Click to expand...
This guy is going to downgrade every chapter of Deltarune.
 
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