[0-0-1] Japanese Standoff? - Kishibe Rohan vs Lelouch Vi Britannia

[Nonynho]

on God, i hope this comes out as Incon

Rohan and Lelouch are 5m away from each other, both are bloodlusted
Speed is equal, wincon is by death of either Rohan or Lelouch
Lelouch is dressed up as Zero, for flavoring, and is by himself
They're looking directly at each other

2nd Best Dictator in fiction:

Best Mangaka in fiction:

Incon: @Nonynho

 

[Chariot190]

I'm assuming he doesn't have his mecha, in which case, Lelouch dies, like, bad, like idk what he's supposed to do.
Calamity is automatic, takes action even if Toru doesn't will it to, and even if Lelouch somehow gets "kill yourself" off, that is going to end with Lelouch basically spontaneously exploding when a billion things try to kill him, he might not even get direct murderous intent and action off, he might die mid-sentence. But even if he does, WOU survives anyway, even worse, WOU could like, just bash Lelouch over the head with a stick and kill him like he's still rel and 8-C.

 

[Nonynho]

I'm assuming he doesn't have his mecha, in which case, Lelouch dies, like, bad, like idk what he's supposed to do.
Calamity is automatic, takes action even if Toru doesn't will it to, and even if Lelouch somehow gets "kill yourself" off, that is going to end with Lelouch basically spontaneously exploding when a billion things try to kill him, he might not even get direct murderous intent and action off, he might die mid-sentence. But even if he does, WOU survives anyway, even worse, WOU could like, just bash Lelouch over the head with a stick and kill him like he's still rel and 8-C.

So if i put "wincon is by killing Toru" this can be Inconclusive, right?
ngl i forgot that WoU survives after Toru's death...But that doesn't change a thing since by having eye contact with Lelouch it's insta passive command, Lelouch doesnt necessarily need to say anything and by them being BL, Toru would also immediately kill himself

 

[Chariot190]

So if i put "wincon is by killing Toru" this can be Inconclusive, right?
ngl i forgot that WoU survives after Toru's death...But that doesn't change a thing since by having eye contact with Lelouch it's insta passive command, Lelouch doesnt necessarily need to say anything and by them being BL, Toru would also immediately kill himself

Still applies. Josuke even thinking about engaging Tooru got him nearly killed. Using a thought based ability like that with lethal intent is def gonna cause calamity to go wild and try to get him slimed before he can finish the thought.
There's also the problem of Calamity possibly negating his ability or ******* it up, or the fact WOU is gonna shove a stick up his ass before he can think to do anything regardless which normally he wouldn't do, but you kind of put him at 5m range and bloodlusted, he's not exactly in a position to do his usual tech as his usual tech involves Tooru being out of sight.

 

[Nonynho]

Using a thought based ability like that with lethal intent is def gonna cause calamity to go wild and try to get him slimed before he can finish the thought.

But speed is equalized, so they're both at Lelouch's level, Supersonic reactions, so finishing a thought is definetely possible
Lelouch's definetely dead, but Toru is too

As they're equal in "fast af reaction" and Lelouch's power need them to be looking at one another, i think that the same scenario should happen pretty much regardless of the range ngl

 

[Nonynho]

Also, as equalization applies to combat speed, afaik, and reaction speed is a different type of it, this should definetely mean that Lelouch can finish a thought as his reaction speed is immensely superior to his other speeds lol

 

[Chariot190]

But speed is equalized, so they're both at Lelouch's level, Supersonic reactions, so finishing a thought is definetely possible
Lelouch's definetely dead, but Toru is too

As they're equal in "fast af reaction" and Lelouch's power need them to be looking at one another, i think that the same scenario should happen pretty much regardless of the range ngl

That isn't how speed equal works. Tooru's combat speed gets equalized to lelouch's, ractions yadda yadda, you get it.

That isn't what I meant anyway tho. I said WOU shoves a stick up his ass, WOU is rel and a fuckton quicker than Tooru, but that ALSO isn't what I meant when I said that.

Calamity will prevent the active thought, Tooru and WOU don't have to do anything, the very world itself will cause an occurrence to cut him off from doing something that would lead to Tooru's death, speed equal doesn't matter in this scenario, neither of them are relevant because Calamity is automatic, passive, and will take effect regardless of whether WOU or Tooru do anything, even if they don't want it to.

 

[Nonynho]

Calamity will prevent the active thought, Tooru and WOU don't have to do anything, the very world itself will cause an occurrence to cut him off from doing something that would lead to Tooru's death, speed equal doesn't matter in this scenario, neither of them are relevant because Calamity is automatic, passive, and will take effect regardless of whether WOU or Tooru do anything, even if they don't want it to.

Calamity don't prevent a thought, as this would be impeding the ability to actually work (edit: i say this cuz the ability is literally proc'ing when someone thinks of going after Toru, no?)
it's like a machine programmed "If turn on Then turn off", it just doesn't work

Lelouch's ability would proc, he dies and Toru kills himself right after

 

[Chariot190]

Calamity don't prevent a thought, as this would be impeding the ability to actually work (edit: i say this cuz the ability is literally proc'ing when someone thinks of going after Toru, no?)

It can prevent things head of time, and control fate up to decades in advance, if the thought itself is lethal, it's going to prevent that action from being taken as the act of thinking.
You're confusing basic "thinking" with "using an ability that's lethal". Lelouch's thoughts fall into the latter if his thoughts are going to lead to Tooru's death, all it is, is thought based hax at that point with lethal intent, and intent is very much something it can stop.

it's like a machine programmed "If turn on Then turn off", it just doesn't work

I mean maybe if you just ignore how it's described and some of what it's done.

Lelouch's ability would proc, he dies and Toru kills himself right after

And this isn't even getting into the fact Calamity can alter and negate one's ability.

 

[Doggo]

I love Lulu but....how tf is he winning this lol

Him vs Rohan would be cooler ngl

 

[Nonynho]

It can prevent things head of time, and control fate up to decades in advance, if the thought itself is lethal, it's going to prevent that action from being taken as the act of thinking.
You're confusing basic "thinking" with "using an ability that's lethal". Lelouch's thoughts fall into the latter if his thoughts are going to lead to Tooru's death, all it is, is thought based hax at that point with lethal intent, and intent is very much something it can stop.

I mean maybe if you just ignore how it's described and some of what it's done.

And this isn't even getting into the fact Calamity can alter and negate one's ability.

I love Lulu but....how tf is he winning this lol

Him vs Rohan would be cooler ngl

NGL, i'm quite failing to see it stopping a thought, but i'll change opponents before getting into intricacies and stretching up too much cuz i feel i still won't be going through that and getting a good result.
Is Rohan indeed a possibility? Or should i search for someone else?

 

[Doggo]

NGL, i'm quite failing to see it stopping a thought, but i'll change opponents before getting into intricacies and stretching up too much cuz i feel i still won't be going through that and getting a good result.
Is Rohan indeed a possibility? Or should i search for someone else?

idk I thought of Rohan cuz "le mind hax"

 

[Nonynho]

idk I thought of Rohan cuz "le mind hax"

Yeah and i think this'd work cuz they're both very quick reaction-wise, so both would proc immediately and they'd be in an infinite loop

 

[Chariot190]

Yeah and i think this'd work cuz they're both very quick reaction-wise, so both would proc immediately and they'd be in an infinite loop

1. Why in the actual hell are you fishing for inconclusives.
2. Rohan's ability also incaps and knocks out the other party and his very first order of business is inability to act against him, he also has power null with it.

 

[Nonynho]

1. Why in the actual hell are you fishing for inconclusives.

For fun

2. Rohan's ability also incaps and knocks out the other party and his very first order of business is inability to act against him, he also has power null with it.

Lelouch's ability is also doing that, typically he looks at them and the opposing side stands still while he issues the command
But not all times he has to say the order out loud, he just activates the geass and gg whoever

 

[Chariot190]

For fun

I'm pretty sure that's not something you're supposed to do chat.

Lelouch's ability is also doing that, typically he looks at them and the opposing side stands still while he issues the command
But not all times he has to say the order out loud, he just activates the geass and gg whoever

I def don't like how you said "not all times", why not? What's the deciding factor? Are his targets still cognizant? what's the threshold, etc.

 

[Nonynho]

def don't like how you said "not all times", why not? What's the deciding factor? Are his targets still cognizant? what's the threshold, etc.

Because his usual schemes involve doing complex orders like "if you get to certain place at this certain time do this", since his orders only work once and he tries to get important people in his schemes

But since he's BL, he should just insure the "kys" order, and for that he doesn't need to say anything and it's just a thought;

His targets get completely frozen until he orders if he's doing a complex order, which he's not, in this scenario

 

[Chariot190]

Because his usual schemes involve doing complex orders like "if you get to certain place at this certain time do this", since his orders only work once and he tries to get important people in his schemes

Then why not think it there too.

But since he's BL, he should just insure the "kys" order, and for that he doesn't need to say anything and it's just a thought;

How come? What makes that automated but only sometimes.

His targets get completely frozen until he orders if he's doing a complex order, which he's not, in this scenario

Doesn't answer my question, are they cognizant at all.

 

[Doggo]

I def don't like how you said "not all times", why not? What's the deciding factor? Are his targets still cognizant? what's the threshold, etc.

Basically, he needs eye contact to control his target. It works like this

eye contact

"Kill yourself"

The target also has no memories of the action and will forget about it afterwards, so they aren't really conscious during it. So if he orders you to give him your car, you won't have any recollection of giving him your car keys. The only exception will be if he says "Follow my commands" or "live," because the target can think on their own in those, but must follow the command no matter what.

So Rohan won't be able to think of going against him once he is under Geass, since his main focus will be answering any command Lelouch gives him, and Lelouch using "Kill yourself" is VERY in-character. He does it a lot in the series, meaning Rohan's main priority will be finding ways to kill himself

But it is also shown that strong willpower (which all Stand users have) can temporarily fight off the effects before succumbing ( at best, lasts a few seconds), so Rohan has the time to just use Heaven's Door on himself to negate the Geass before he kills himself. But Lelouch also has a gun soooooooo

 

[Doggo]

Lelouch needs to verbally say the command btw

 

[Nonynho]

Lelouch needs to verbally say the command btw

I really remember this not always being the case
but even so, if his geass proc it'll be at the same time as Rohan's stand, also instant
So...

 

[Doggo]

I really remember this not always being the case

Even if it can work non-verbally, Lelouch tends to be pompous in how he does it

He has the tendency to say this classic line:

"I, Lelouch vi Brittannia, command you to kill yourself."

Compare that to Rohan just saying "Heaven's Door." Lelouch shoots himself in the foot by making his command overly long, but he has moments of just saying "Kill yourself".

 

[Nonynho]

Even if it can work non-verbally, Lelouch tends to be pompous in how he does it

He has the tendency to say this classic line:

"I, Lelouch vi Brittannia, command you to kill yourself."

Compare that to Rohan just saying "Heaven's Door." Lelouch shoots himself in the foot by making his command overly long, but he has moments of just saying "Kill yourself".

1- But his Geass proc immediately, leaving someone catathonic, just by sight, and Heaven's Door also would be immediate

2- If he has situations of saying so, by our comprehension of BL, that's how he'd be operating, but this wouldn't matter since heaven's door also procced at him so Rohan would be cathatonic and Lelouch would too

 

[Chariot190]

Basically, he needs eye contact to control his target. It works like this

eye contact

"Kill yourself"

The target also has no memories of the action and will forget about it afterwards, so they aren't really conscious during it. So if he orders you to give him your car, you won't have any recollection of giving him your car keys. The only exception will be if he says "Follow my commands" or "live," because the target can think on their own in those, but must follow the command no matter what.

That doesn't answer the question, not remembering it afterward doesn't mean they weren't conscious during it. You just pointed out an example yourself where that isn't the case so it's evidently not a rule.

So Rohan won't be able to think of going against him once he is under Geass, since his main focus will be answering any command Lelouch gives him, and Lelouch using "Kill yourself" is VERY in-character. He does it a lot in the series, meaning Rohan's main priority will be finding ways to kill himself

I'm aware, I watched it, it's just been 20 years.

But it is also shown that strong willpower (which all Stand users have) can temporarily fight off the effects before succumbing ( at best, lasts a few seconds), so Rohan has the time to just use Heaven's Door on himself to negate the Geass before he kills himself.

Rohan has one of the strongest so...

But Lelouch also has a gun soooooooo

Please say you're joking. Tf is a gun gonna do?

Even if it can work non-verbally, Lelouch tends to be pompous in how he does it

He has the tendency to say this classic line:

"I, Lelouch vi Brittannia, command you to kill yourself."

Compare that to Rohan just saying "Heaven's Door." Lelouch shoots himself in the foot by making his command overly long, but he has moments of just saying "Kill yourself".

Current Rohan is thought based, he doesn't need to say anything or even gesture, and frequently doesn't anymore. More of a Part 4 thing (excluding when he's literally talking to his Stand anyway).

 

[ShionAH]

Lelouch FRA

 

[Chariot190]

Lelouch FRA

What reasons FRA exactly? Literally nobody has gave any reasons for him, at best it's been trying to force a tie.

 

[ShionAH]

I meant FRB

 

[Chariot190]

1- But his Geass proc immediately, leaving someone catathonic, just by sight, and Heaven's Door also would be immediate

HD is quicker btw, it's thought based, doesn't even need eye contact, and somewhat sentient, it could act even without Rohan's direct commands if forced into that type of situation. And Rohan's immediate action in not even just a fight, but a blind encounter (like Reimi) is to make put a "they can't harm Rohan Kishibe" lock on someone before they even realize what's going on.

I meant FRB

You just essentially confirmed you haven't read the thread, confirmed your FRAs don't actually involve FRA, you're just voting for whoever and were just saying words.
Not a good look dude, kind of completely undermined yourself here henceforth.

 

[ShionAH]

You just essentially confirmed you haven't read the thread, confirmed your FRAs don't actually involve FRA, you're just voting for whoever and were just saying words.
Not a good look dude, kind of completely undermined yourself here henceforth.

Chariot the MOMENT someone who has been a part of this community for quite some time who has already shown to be fair in most scenarios makes a joke about voting for the reasons “below” while clearly not being serious

Lower your cortisal dude, you don’t need to be this tense all the time. I already saw this thread being a mismatch just through OP trying to push a Incon out of it so I voted the obvious non winner without giving any reasons which I assumed would make it obvious I am not being serious and yet I then I clarified this by continuing to say I am voting for the literal “reasons below” that don’t exist YET implying I am seeing the future. But of course thats all serious and I am so unfair and evil and I want to be biased and vote this character I have no idea about

I am gonna keep my vote on Goku for these reasons, sorry you can’t change my mind

 

[Chariot190]

Chariot the MOMENT someone who has been a part of this community for quite some time who has already shown to be fair in most scenarios makes a joke about voting for the reasons “below” while clearly not being serious

Uh no, I more meant voting FRA when there is no FRA, should be obvious what I was referring to. You replying with FRB just made it obvious you were backepdaling. Don't pretend to miss the obvious point being made.

Regardless I don't care, you outted yourself, trying to backpedal it ain't my problem.

Lower your cortisal dude, you don’t need to be this tense all the time. I already saw this thread being a mismatch just through OP trying to push a Incon out of it so I voted the obvious non winner without giving any reasons which I assumed would make it obvious I am not being serious and yet I then I clarified this by continuing to say I am voting for the literal “reasons below” that don’t exist YET implying I am seeing the future. But of course thats all serious and I am so unfair and evil and I want to be biased and vote this character I have no idea about

Backpedaling hard. It isn't even subtle.
Miss me with the lower your cortisol tone-police dude, if you don't like being called out, don't do shit that warrants it.

You posted a real-format vote with zero reasons. That's not some galaxy-brain joke - it's indistinguishable from a normal FRA vote, which you've done, thousands of times before, as with hundreds of others, there is quite literally zero reason to assume otherwise. If I don't challenge it, it gets counted. And said vote is based on nothing thus far, and unfortunately, people FRA train all the time even with bad arguments.

Also, I meant FRB didn't clarify anything. A joke sure, but it just showed you weren't even tracking what I was asking. I was calling out that your initial vote had no thread-based reasons attached to it, instead of clarifying what was actually asked, you backpedaled into a joke.

And "being in the community a while / I'm usually fair" is irrelevant. Longevity doesn't make a vote valid, and most of the time isn't a credential anyway, you know how many long-lasting members end up doing suspect things?
What matters is what you did here, you pulled a FRA in a thread where there was no FRA to vote off, without engaging the arguments, then backpedaled and pretended it was all a joke after getting pressed.

If you think it's a mismatch, then say that shit like everyone else does. If you don't want to give reasons and you're "not being serious", then don't post a vote in a format that gets tallied. Like surely I do not have to explain to "a long acting member of this community" like yourself why dropping a FRA vote zero context is very much not ok given that's how 99% of people vote. If I didn't question it, do you not think Nonynho would have counted it? Why am I even explaining this to you? I know you know so don't act ignorant.

Also nice strawman lad, nobody called you evil or whatever as some moral failing. I called out a specific behavior: you dropped a vote in a tally format with zero reasons given, then tried to retroactively reframe it as a joke once you got challenged and made multiple excuses that simply do not hold up. That's it.

And the mismatch / incon push excuse doesn't help you, it actively undermines your "it was def a joke" as if someone in thread right now is LITERALLY giving reasons for why Lelouch isn't outright stomped, where are you getting the "it's 100% obvious non-winner" from? If that's your actual read, say it like normal. You don't get to skip giving any reasoning, rely on everyone literally mind-reading your intent off nothing, then act shocked when your vote is treated like every other reasonless FRA-train vote.

I am gonna keep my vote on Goku for these reasons, sorry you can’t change my mind

I mean trying to play it off as a joke now is a lil late, just know your credibility is kind of shot now.

 

[Nonynho]

Current Rohan is thought based

As they are looking at each other, both powers will activate in a thought

HD is quicker btw, it's thought based, doesn't even need eye contact, and somewhat sentient, it could act even without Rohan's direct commands if forced into that type of situation. And Rohan's immediate action in not even just a fight, but a blind encounter (like Reimi) is to make put a "they can't harm Rohan Kishibe" lock on someone before they even realize what's going on.

As both are thought-based (in the situation where they're looking directly at each other, meaning this one), both should proc immediately in one another.
By speed being equal, HD shouldn't be able to act faster than Lelouch's thought (being speed equal makes this 100% different than against 99% of Rohan's opponents like Reimi's blind encounter you mentioned or that jokenpo annoying kid, i don't think i even need to point this out)

 

[Nonynho]

Also, wth is this lmfao
stop going at each other's throat, even if Shion were serious (which he usually ain't so it is believable that he'd be joking) i wouldn't be able to count his vote as neither side has enough to count lol

 

[ShionAH]

Uh no, I more meant voting FRA when there is no FRA, should be obvious what I was referring to. You replying with FRB just made it obvious you were backepdaling. Don't pretend to miss the obvious point being made.

Regardless I don't care, you outted yourself, trying to backpedal it ain't my problem.

Backpedaling hard. It isn't even subtle.
Miss me with the lower your cortisol tone-police dude, if you don't like being called out, don't do shit that warrants it.

You posted a real-format vote with zero reasons. That's not some galaxy-brain joke - it's indistinguishable from a normal FRA vote, which you've done, thousands of times before, as with hundreds of others, there is quite literally zero reason to assume otherwise. If I don't challenge it, it gets counted. And said vote is based on nothing thus far, and unfortunately, people FRA train all the time even with bad arguments.

Also, I meant FRB didn't clarify anything. A joke sure, but it just showed you weren't even tracking what I was asking. I was calling out that your initial vote had no thread-based reasons attached to it, instead of clarifying what was actually asked, you backpedaled into a joke.

And "being in the community a while / I'm usually fair" is irrelevant. Longevity doesn't make a vote valid, and most of the time isn't a credential anyway, you know how many long-lasting members end up doing suspect things?
What matters is what you did here, you pulled a FRA in a thread where there was no FRA to vote off, without engaging the arguments, then backpedaled and pretended it was all a joke after getting pressed.

If you think it's a mismatch, then say that shit like everyone else does. If you don't want to give reasons and you're "not being serious", then don't post a vote in a format that gets tallied. Like surely I do not have to explain to "a long acting member of this community" like yourself why dropping a FRA vote zero context is very much not ok given that's how 99% of people vote. If I didn't question it, do you not think Nonynho would have counted it? Why am I even explaining this to you? I know you know so don't act ignorant.

Also nice strawman lad, nobody called you evil or whatever as some moral failing. I called out a specific behavior: you dropped a vote in a tally format with zero reasons given, then tried to retroactively reframe it as a joke once you got challenged and made multiple excuses that simply do not hold up. That's it.

And the mismatch / incon push excuse doesn't help you, it actively undermines your "it was def a joke" as if someone in thread right now is LITERALLY giving reasons for why Lelouch isn't outright stomped, where are you getting the "it's 100% obvious non-winner" from? If that's your actual read, say it like normal. You don't get to skip giving any reasoning, rely on everyone literally mind-reading your intent off nothing, then act shocked when your vote is treated like every other reasonless FRA-train vote.

I mean trying to play it off as a joke now is a lil late, just know your credibility is kind of shot now.

 

[Chariot190]

As they are looking at each other, both powers will activate in a thought

That isn't how this works. One needs direct eye contact, one doesn't, Lelouch's ability doesn't work by looking at someone, but rather making direct eye contact with that someone. While minor, that extra step is still there.

As both are thought-based (in the situation where they're looking directly at each other, meaning this one), both should proc immediately in one another.

As above. Not that it matter given HD has power null and Rohan has immense willpower and he can circumvent other abilities by voiding the facet they interact with such as his vision, memories, and so forth.

By speed being equal, HD shouldn't be able to act faster than Lelouch's thought (being speed equal makes this 100% different than against 99% of Rohan's opponents like Reimi's blind encounter you mentioned or that jokenpo annoying kid, i don't think i even need to point this out)

I think you do actually because you kind of missed the fact that I was pointing out Rohan's in character behavior and leads, not that he was faster. Do not strawman my point.
But what is faster, is thought > eye contact+thought/verbose yapping.

Also, wth is this lmfao
stop going at each other's throat, even if Shion were serious (which he usually ain't so it is believable that he'd be joking) i wouldn't be able to count his vote as neither side has enough to count lol

You ain't helping his case, you're just making it so nothing he says should be taken at face value if he's never serious.

 

[Chariot190]

Proving my point. But I guess I shouldn't have expected much better.

 

[ShionAH]

 

[Chariot190]

Is this admitting to deliberately trying to flame? That's report worthy lad.

 

[ShionAH]

 

[Nonynho]

That isn't how this works. One needs direct eye contact, one doesn't, Lelouch's ability doesn't work by looking at someone, but rather making direct eye contact with that someone. While minor, that extra step is still there.

OP is made with the intent that it is like this, that they start looking at each other. Am i obliged to say "They are looking directly at each other in the face/the eye"? If so, i'd have no problem editing to put this detail there, but know that by the way it's written, it aims to be this

As above. Not that it matter given HD has power null and Rohan has immense willpower and he can circumvent other abilities by voiding the facet they interact with such as his vision, memories, and so forth.

HD only has the ability to negate stuff after Rohan reading and taking off a page and Rohan doesn't have willpower listed, and even if he had, Willpower =/= Mind Manip (and similars) Resistance. In some cases willpower can remove mind manip, but not all of them and it is not the case against his Geass

But what is faster, is thought > eye contact+thought/verbose yapping.

If the eye contact is already there it is thought vs thought
OP was written to be like this

You ain't helping his case, you're just making it so nothing he says should be taken at face value if he's never serious.

Nobody is ever 100% serious in this site and i think absolutely nobody should be taken at face value if you wanna know
But i ain't defending none of y'all, just think it is not worth the time to jump at each other's throat. Y'all can ignore me from all i care

 

[Nonynho]

Since we'll be circling aroung "yes they will proc at the same time" and "no they won't" and there is no actual element in the profiles that changes figures from the current situation, i'll finally cement my vote at incon, FRA