All Purpose Dragon Ball Thread

[Azertyhuuh]

I wouldn't put IT at infinite speed tbh.

Also, attacks have shown to outspeed teleportation even in the Cell Saga (Goku teleports -> Kame Hame Ha travels some distance -> Keeps going out of Earth -> Goku appears behind Cell)

Whis’s speed is immeasurable, not infinite, but beyond that; it is immeasurable. Instant Transmission occurs in zero time, and you can check the speed page for more details.

Infinite speed = Instant Transmission. Infinite speed can reach any location in zero time, and the same applies to Instant Transmission, which can move from one place to another in zero time. However, on VSBW, Instant Transmission is currently not counted in speed classifications and does not grant infinite speed, even though it is effectively the same thing. Nevertheless, Whis was able to evade Instant Transmission itself.

Whis was standing in a specific location, while Gogeta was in a completely different place. Gogeta used Instant Transmission to move to the exact location where Whis was standing. Instant Transmission occurs in zero time, yet Whis was still able to evade it at the very point it would have occurred, successfully avoiding it. This makes Whis’s speed immeasurable. I have already sent you the scene abo
ve.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Why IT isn't infinite or immesurable speed?

Because it's teleportation.

It can traverse infinite universe and travel from one space-time continuum to another or even higher, shouldn't it give immesurable speed?

Distance travelled by teleportation is just range, not speed. Maybe you could argue infinite speed for noncanon given the "realm without concept of space and time" they use to travel, but afaik it is accepted as pseudo-time stop or something like that

 

[Shadow7001]

Coincidence? Do you mean an immeasurable coincidence, right? Why don’t we ask to add an immeasurable coincidence, an infinite coincidence, and an absolute coincidence as well, so that any character who shows any feat can be considered an absolute coincidence or an immeasurable-speed coincidence… depending on usage?

What do you think about watching the scene yourself ↓



In any case, I will open a thread about this soon.

You were previously told in the RVRT to limit your CRT creation and potentially consult more knowledgeable members first before making big changes. You're not following that instruction. Do you intend to get a thread ban?

 

[Shadow7001]

Does that work?

I don't think it does.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

You were previously told in the RVRT to limit your CRT creation and potentially consult more knowledgeable members first before making big changes. You're not following that instruction. Do you intend to get a thread ban?

Yes, I am well aware of this. However, if you are opposing just for the sake of opposition, then I cannot come to an understanding with you. And you are not the only one here; there are others as well. That is why I came here to raise this matter for everyone to discuss, not just with you alone. You are not the only person here who has experience and expertise, and so on.

 

[Shadow7001]

Yes, I am well aware of this. However, if you are opposing just for the sake of opposition, then I cannot come to an understanding with you. And you are not the only one here; there are others as well. That is why I came here to raise this matter for everyone to discuss, not just with you alone. You are not the only person here who has experience and expertise, and so on.

Okay well forget me, everyone else here is also telling you the same that this isn't gonna work. So are you gonna pay heed to their word now? Please refrain from spamming the site with low quality, controversial threads.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Does that work?

Yes, that is fine. Also, some people are unaware that Instant Transmission occurs in a zero moment and is equivalent to infinite speed. Infinite speed allows you to reach any place in a zero moment, and Instant Transmission does the same, allowing you to move from one place to another in a zero moment. The only difference is that on VSBW, Instant Transmission is not counted as speed, even if it functions like infinite speed ↓

Infinite Speed (Able to travel any finite distance in zero time, or move an infinite distance within a finite amount of time. Teleportation does not count. For further information, see the "Further Explanations"-section below)

Gogeta used Instant Transmission to the exact place where Whis was standing, and this would occur in a zero moment, as Gogeta moves from one location to another instantly. When Gogeta appeared at the place where Whis was standing, Whis avoided and evaded the Instant Transmission itself, which is what grants him immeasurable speed. I already sent the video above; you can watch it
.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

How the hell is teleportation supposed to specify zero time?Since most works don’t specify it, to me, teleportation being described as moving instantly to a location already implies zero time, because it is something instantaneous.

That said, someone with better knowledge on the subject should make this important crt, and it would require multiple pieces of evidence. If well argued, it should at least grant infinite combat speed or some form of infinite reaction (i’m not sure).

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Verse is a Goku victim

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Wonder if anything significant could be inferred from DRAGON BALL FOREVER referring to the parallel worlds as "dimensions" (次元).

 

[Shadow7001]

Wonder if anything significant could be inferred from DRAGON BALL FOREVER referring to the parallel worlds as "dimensions" (次元).

Which parallel worlds?

 

[Shadow7001]

How the hell is teleportation supposed to specify zero time?Since most works don’t specify it, to me, teleportation being described as moving instantly to a location already implies zero time, because it is something instantaneous.

That said, someone with better knowledge on the subject should make this important crt, and it would require multiple pieces of evidence. If well argued, it should at least grant infinite combat speed or some form of infinite reaction (i’m not sure).

It's not, trust me. This user is annoying insistent despite their inability to make good CRTs and I fear they're going to get us a discussion rule instead.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

It's not, trust me. This user is annoying insistent despite their inability to make good CRTs and I fear they're going to get us a discussion rule instead.

What about you minding your own business and not trying to stir up trouble between me and the members here? I am discussing with them, not with you.

 

[Shadow7001]

What about you minding your own business and not trying to stir up trouble between me and the members here? I am discussing with them, not with you.

I'm also a member and it's well within the code of conduct here to call out an argument that I think is wrong, and especially when said user has already been told to limit their CRT creation but is explicitly talking about ignoring that instruction.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Which parallel worlds?

The only mainline canonical parallel worlds (by the time of the book's release); Goku's world, Future Trunks's world, and Cell's world.

 

[Shadow7001]

The only mainline canonical parallel worlds (by the time of the book's release); Goku's world, Future Trunks's world, and Cell's world.

Well it is consistent with Akira Toriyama calling movies their own 'parallel dimensions' I suppose so one could argue that this lends credence to the fact that the movies probably exist as alternate parallel worlds/timelines, especially with the whole Toyotaro and Torishima thing talking about how there's no continuity or everything is canon or whatever; not that I'm particularly interested in it.

 

[Mbpoops]

I always believed they were parrelled universes/timelines makes more sense when you think abt how they dont fit in the main story and have their own storylines (pretty sure most of them are in the same timeline)

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

What about you minding your own business and not trying to stir up trouble between me and the members here? I am discussing with them, not with you.

Calm down, nobody is being rude to you. At least try to talk to us. We understand that you want infinite speed for DB, but we have to wait, and if this CRT is closed, we have to wait three months to try again. That's not good in a way.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Dragon Ball Heroes and Dragon Ball Super and all of that happen in the same cosmology, just in other parallel worlds. Akira Toriyama and Toyotaro stated this, and it is part of the official story, but all of it occurs in other parallel worlds. The cosmology is the same, and only in Heroes are several things clarified in more detail; other than that, they are the same, and the writers confirmed this.

The classifications in Heroes and Super are very, very ridiculous. There is no difference in Whis’s strength between Super and Heroes—they are the same character. The same goes for Daishinkan; the Daishinkan in Super is also the same character. Imagine someone saying that Jiren in Heroes is stronger than Whis and all the angels and everything in Super, even though his power level is the same as in the Tournament of Power, and his fights are even weaker than in the Tournament of Power. The logic is completely flawed and laughable. The same characters, the same everything, and the writers’ statements confirm that everything happens in parallel worlds.

In the end, a Low 1-C insect is considered stronger than the Super characters. The problem is, they are the same characters. And if you ask what the difference is, they say, “This is in Heroes, and this is in Super.” The forum does not classify characters by their actual power but by cosmology, and this is where everything makes sense.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Dragon Ball: Low 1-C Neutral Space

Oke, a thread at the end of the first month of new year, i'm dying, literally and metaphorically, anyway Credit to @Killerdrone123 @ProfectusInfinity and some others In this thread I would explain why neutral space in Dragon Ball would qualify for Low 1-C but first let me explain to you what...

vsbattles.com

 

[Mbpoops]

Can we scale gohan’s super saiyan ants next

 

[Shadow7001]

Can we scale gohan’s super saiyan ants next

High 1-A

 

[RoninSlayer200]

.

If you wanna talk about Zeno's realm or, please do it here instead of derailing the NZ thread, as that thread has nothing to do with Zeno's realm scaling.

 

[Mgebrat282]

I want to talk about my rejected uni Frieza. I asked people from here but didn't got a normal argument why it can't work when BoG in manga does

 

[Mgebrat282]

Like, wtf, I gave statements and even a feat, when in BoG manga there is only one statement from a character's opinion and 0 feats

 

[StekFence]

Cell probably

 

[Shadow7001]

Cell probably

The issue is that even Cell has universal statements in the manga

 

[TiltedFN]

The issue is that even Cell has universal statements in the manga

Cell can objectively bust any Celestial Body in the universe while in his first form. Android 16 was under that impression and we have no reason to think it's false. 16 just wasn't aware of Cell's goals if it were to achieve completion, which is understandable.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Dragon Ball Heroes and Dragon Ball Super and all of that happen in the same cosmology, just in other parallel worlds.

Yes, Dabura is the Supreme Demon King of two versions of the Demon Realm, the former of which was created by sorcerers imprisoned outside of space-time within an alternate dimension opposite from the universe over 75 million years ago. Yes, history is infinitely expansive, and an infinite number of parallel worlds currently co-exist, were always co-existing, and always will co-exist; even though, according to the cosmic laws established by the gods and the Angels (but, what do they know?), time can only flow in a single direction, and the currently finite number (6) of parallel worlds are only created when history is rewritten via time travel.

And users of God Ki can freely open dimensional rifts and summon planet-sized meteors.

Akira Toriyama and Toyotaro stated this, and it is part of the official story, but all of it occurs in other parallel worlds.

Where? When? How?

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

Mfs trying to get a speed rating from a technique that's explicitly not speed, but teleportation, is funny, lol

 

[Mbpoops]

i mean if the teleportation is instantaneous and someone moves faster than it with raw speed is that not a speed feat?

 

[Shadow7001]

time can only flow in a single direction, and the currently finite number (6) of parallel worlds are only created when history is rewritten via time travel.

There's some issues with this part of your comment. For one the former statement only refers to time travel being strictly forbidden. And the second statement is actually just demonstrably false. Beerus kills Zamasu but Whis outright confirms that this created a new time ring (aka a new timeline) where he wasn't killed. This was done without time travel. You could argue that it's because of the Time Ring, but that only protected Zamasu from not being erased across all timelines as Beerus had initially said would happen due to mortals and Gods following different causal logic, but that still doesn't actually explain the creation of a new timeline and it still contradicts the above statement anyway that time travel is NOT the only way to create them.

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

i mean if the teleportation is instantaneous and someone moves faster than it with raw speed is that not a speed feat?

The thing is: Teleportation doesn't makes you move across one place to another instantly, you don't actually move in the sense of "distance over time", but rather it makes your body appear in another place

I think the best analogy i can think of is you dying on a videogame and your character getting respawned on your last spawn point, idk if the analogy is confusing but that's pretty much it

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Yes, Dabura is the Supreme Demon King of two versions of the Demon Realm, the former of which was created by sorcerers imprisoned outside of space-time within an alternate dimension opposite from the universe over 75 million years ago. Yes, history is infinitely expansive, and an infinite number of parallel worlds currently co-exist, were always co-existing, and always will co-exist; even though, according to the cosmic laws established by the gods and the Angels (but, what do they know?), time can only flow in a single direction, and the currently finite number (6) of parallel worlds are only created when history is rewritten via time travel.

And users of God Ki can freely open dimensional rifts and summon planet-sized meteors.

Where? When? How?

Trunks mentioned that even very simple things can create countless possible futures, which makes the number of parallel universes unknown because it is extremely large and incalculable. Imagine that even very simple actions can create many different futures. Likewise, the container of the Kaioshin seems long and extends infinitely. Trunks’ statement denies the existence of only six universes in reality, and it doesn’t even require time travel or changing the past; every action, no matter how small, creates many different possible futures↓

Screenshot ٢٠٢٦ ٠١ ٣١ ٢٠ ٤٨ ٠٧ ٢٠ 99c04817c0de5652397fc8b56c3b3817 hosted at ImgBB

Image Screenshot ٢٠٢٦ ٠١ ٣١ ٢٠ ٤٨ ٠٧ ٢٠ 99c04817c0de5652397fc8b56c3b3817 hosted on ImgBB

ibb.co

 

[Mgebrat282]

Cell probably

He has the same statement in anime and it's pretty consistent though many sources for anime, but it doesn't stop us in his case, so why it should be in Frieza's case? The same kind of thing can used even in Super, when Gohan and Piccolo went all out they COULD destroy the Earth with a statement(looks like everyone below are below planet lvl now) and many more examples.
Also Cell has uni busting statements too

 

[BoastJr]

Probably because they is less things to support it on Cell's side

In Toei Broly Movie, SSJ Broly was a threat to the universe and destroyed quadrants for instance so there is more stuff to back up Cell

 

[BoastJr]

Mfs trying to get a speed rating from a technique that's explicitly not speed, but teleportation, is funny, lol

I think the closest to high tier speed was probably Hit and his timeskip although it was ruled out cuz analytical prediction

 

[Nullflowerblush]

For one the former statement only refers to time travel being strictly forbidden.

Why exactly is time travel forbidden? Hint: Parallel worlds are only created by rewriting history because time can only flow in a single direction; if the past is altered by time travel, then the entire temporal axis separates the altered past away from the original future.

Beerus kills Zamasu but Whis outright confirms that this created a new time ring (aka a new timeline) where he wasn't killed. This was done without time travel.

Question: Why did Beerus destroy Zamasu? Answer: Because Future Trunks used his Time Machine to time travel back from his alternate future to the alternate past of Goku's world and then informed the Z-Fighters of the past of Goku Black's existence.

Trunks stated that any small change creates many possible futures, which makes the number of parallel universes unknown because it is extremely large and countless. Imagine that with every small change, many different futures are created.

The "any small change" bit is directly referring to the action of rewriting history. The example of a "small change" Future Trunks uses is him traveling to the past and giving Goku the heart medicine, instead of Goku dying from the heart virus. You can only create parallel worlds from a "small change" if you travel back in time. You cannot make a "small change" in your present or your future because your present and your future are currently being written, and any "change" you in the present could think of is simply an action pre-determined by the flow of causality, which expands forward endlessly; hence why travelling to the future is not prohibited by cosmic law.

You are thinking of the many-worlds theory, which establishes an infinite number of parallel universes existing simultaneously. To the human observer, the difference between the movement of an atom creates an infinite number of possible futures; in reality, said possible futures would have already existed across the infinite multiverse, such is the nature of infinity.

Dragon Ball is not the many-worlds theory.
Time travel and parallel worlds are very explicit.

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

I think the closest to high tier speed was probably Hit and his timeskip although it was ruled out cuz analytical prediction

Goku evading Hit's time-skip was actually ruled out due to it being considered rather an outlier than a non-feat

We currently index the ability as being both Time Travel and Time Stop, as you can see by reading the note on Hit's profile

 

[Shadow7001]

Why exactly is time travel forbidden? Hint: Parallel worlds are only created by rewriting history because time can only flow in a single direction; if the past is altered by time travel, then the entire temporal axis separates the altered past away from the original future.

This seems like headcanon and putting the cart before the horse a bit. Changes to the past are strictly forbidden, but not because it results in a new timeline; to my knowledge Whis never actually stated or expanded on this. The reason it works this way is to essentially solve the Grandfather Paradox that inevitably comes with making any changes to the past. It does not mean that that the act of creating new timelines in forbidden, just the act of traveling to the past of one and altering anything. The explanation here is just an educated guess.

Question: Why did Beerus destroy Zamasu? Answer: Because Future Trunks used his Time Machine to time travel back from his alternate future to the alternate past of Goku's world and then informed the Z-Fighters of the past of Goku Black's existence.

Do you remember what Whis did? He told Beerus and co that he's going to travel to the world that Beerus accidentally created, and tell the Beerus of that timeline to kill the Zamasu of that timeline too. Did anyone, including Beerus there, object to this by asking him whether this would create yet another timeline where Zamasu still exists? No, that's likely because it wasn't gonna happen at all, but that's impossible because Whis traveling to a different timeline telling Beerus to kill Zamasu, and Trunks doing the same, as essentially the same action right? Yet in one case, a timeline was created and in another, there's no mention of such. This is why, time travel is NOT the only known method of creating new parallel worlds. A cursory glance toward the series tells us this. I wouldn't put much weight into that, it's pretty much a non-statement that doesn't actually hold with how Dragon Ball works.