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Universal Z Frieza(anime and manga)

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Mgebrat282

Mgebrat282

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On Namek Goku used the energy from the entire universe to create super Genkidama and Genkidama made from energy of just several star systems is as powerful as supernova, so if we use infinite universe with statement about infinite planets and stars, then the enrgy of that Genkidama would be infinite(Frieza tanked it). Also EVEN if we consider universe as finite(which is stupid), the enrgy would be still enourmous(in my blog). And most of all, Frieza was stated to be a universal threat and capable to destroy the universe itself("しだい つよ ごはん ○次第に強くなっていく悟飯やべ きき ジータに危機感を抱いたフリーザ さいご しゅうりよう は、最後の変身を終了した!! 少 からだ やさ くちょう ぎや 年のような体や優しい口調とは逆 うちゅうに、この宇宙そのものを消し去る ほどのパワーを持っているのだ!" Frieza, feeling threatened by Gohan and Vegeta, who were getting stronger and stronger, completed his final transformation! In contrast to his age-like body and gentle tone of voice, he possesses the power to obliterate this universe itself!"
 
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CastoriceTheFifth said:
There was a random ass guide of recoome’s Ki blast destroying space time
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If anyone’s wondering
IMG-8608.webp
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
If we're talking about OG Manga Frieza, the "Universal threat" is refers to how he proclaims to "Rule over the universe" not that he has the power to nuke it all in one attack. Also, some of those other scans look like they come from games and not the manga or Toei Anime.
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Ngl here, the universal threat thing is literal, but it is refers to his capacities to be able to destroy celestial bodies and having an empire that can colonizes across the universe. So yeah his threat level is real, just not mean he can blow up the universe in one go
 
Dalesean027 said:
Wanna source the guides and also we don't accept machine TL
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RPG Guide(for supernova), Dragonball Forever(for all energy in the universe for manga) and Shonen Jump(1994, if I remember correctly). Well, I can ask about translation in a translation thread or ask my translator(@PernidaParnkgjas)
 
The Genkidama made on Namek is made from energy from around the universe, but nothing suggests it was even close to being all the energy the universe contains.

As for being a threat to the whole universe, a rogue nation with nukes is considered a threat to the world, and a sufficiently violent person is considered a threat to a whole area around themself. That sort of wording doesn't really mean the entire structure is destroyed. It'd be different if the statement instead said the universe would be destroyed.
 
Hypertornado099 said:
The RPG Guide that you got that scan from, titled "Dragon Ball Z: The Anime Adventure Game", is comprised of the author's theories and guesses he got from watching the anime and reading some books. Its not to be taken as gospel, especially since some of the information in the book is conjecture
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Well, they stated that information they used for the lore was from other guidebooks, anime, manga and Toriyama's words. So it depends, also this information is +- right(watch my blog).
 
Random-Helper323 said:
The Genkidama made on Namek is made from energy from around the universe, but nothing suggests it was even close to being all the energy the universe contains.
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I asked @PernidaParnkgjas(real translator) about this sentence in DB Forever, I'll tell you what he'd say
 
Random-Helper323 said:
As for being a threat to the whole universe, a rogue nation with nukes is considered a threat to the world, and a sufficiently violent person is considered a threat to a whole area around themself. That sort of wording doesn't really mean the entire structure is destroyed. It'd be different if the statement instead said the universe would be destroyed.
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Ok, but what about anime?
 
Vietthai96 said:
Ngl here, the universal threat thing is literal, but it is refers to his capacities to be able to destroy celestial bodies and having an empire that can colonizes across the universe. So yeah his threat level is real, just not mean he can blow up the universe in one go
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What about Super Genkidama and anime statements about destroying the universe?
 
Mgebrat282 said:
What about Super Genkidama and anime statements about destroying the universe?
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It depends on if the statement is clear and also depends on context. If a character is stated to be able to destroy a universe, with multiple statements about that, it means more than a statement about them getting energy from all over the universe or about them being a threat to the whole universe.
 
Random-Helper323 said:
It depends on if the statement is clear and also depends on context. If a character is stated to be able to destroy a universe, with multiple statements about that, it means more than a statement about them getting energy from all over the universe or about them being a threat to the whole universe.
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Well, Frieza was stated numerous times in an anime(so can be applied to both GT and Super) and had the same statement in Shonen Jump.
 
Mgebrat282 said:
Well, Frieza was stated numerous times in an anime(so can be applied to both GT and Super) and had the same statement in Shonen Jump.
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We need context and the specific statement. Just being a threat to the universe isn't enough. Goku and Beerus were repeatedly stated to be about to destroy the universe. We need the statement to more strongly tell us that the actual universe will cease to exist.

Context also matters. For an example, Plague references destroyed countries, and countries that no longer exist. It is not referring to the actual landmass being genuinely destroyed though, but to the people of nations being wiped out by the plague.
 
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Random-Helper323 said:
We need context and the specific statement. Just being a threat to the universe isn't enough. Goku and Beerus were repeatedly stated to be about to destroy the universe. We need the statement to more strongly tell us that the actual universe will cease to exist.
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In anime and Shonen Jump it was stated he has power to destroy the entire universe itself(just check scans)
 
Mgebrat282 said:
In anime and Shonen Jump it was stated he has power to destroy the entire universe itself(just check scans)
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Those scans are from the Toei version, unless I'm missing something. King Kai's statement that Frieza will destroy the universe "as we know it" makes it a little weird as well.
 
JustANormalPerson01 said:
I'd like to mention that this scan OP linked says Goku gathered energy from Namek and other nearby planets. Not the whole universe

"así que decide reunir energía de Namek y otros planetas cercanos para una Genkidama"
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Ok, but what do you think about it entirely(Dragonball Forever thou)?
 
Mgebrat282 said:
On Namek Goku used the energy from the entire universe to create super Genkidama
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Against Frieza, Goku created an extra-large Genkidama using the energy from "All planets close to Namek!"; against Kid Buu, Goku created a Super Genkidama using energy from life-forms across the "entire universe" (as in, from Earth, from King Kai, from Namek and from King Yemma).
Mgebrat282 said:
Genkidama made from energy of just several star systems is as powerful as supernova
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Evidently, the "small supernova" claim is a dubistic extrapolation of dialogue from King Kai explaining Goku could potentially destroy Earth itself should he "tap into the astounding powers of the sun"; as in, like with the planets and the atmosphere, Goku can gather genki from the sun, further amplifying the power of the Genkidama.
Mgebrat282 said:
so if we use infinite universe with statement about infinite planets and stars
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"Innumerable" and "infinite" are not interchangeable. "Innumerable" is subjective and can refer to any finite quantity, but "infinite" is beyond finity. A total of 1 million planets and stars is an "innumerable" amount of stars for normal humans. Moreover, all of the "innumerable" planets and stars throughout the universe are created by the Supreme Kai across hundreds of millions of years, with a supposedly "infinite" darkness—which, by the way, is the "area" of the universe Yakon's homeworld is in—expanding beyond the observable universe, as per Daizenshuu 4. A universe can be spatially infinite with only a finite quantity of matter, including celestial bodies.
Mgebrat282 said:
the enrgy would be still enourmous(in my blog)
Click to expand...
Yes, your math uses numbers.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Against Frieza, Goku created an extra-large Genkidama using the energy from "All planets close to Namek!"; against Kid Buu, Goku created a Super Genkidama using energy from life-forms across the "entire universe" (as in, from Earth, from King Kai, from Namek and from King Yemma).
Click to expand...
In Dragon Ball Forever it was stated that Goku used the energy of the entire universe to create that Genkidama and in anime(Kai and Z) it was stated that Goku used the energy from the entire universe. Btw in Daizenshu 2 and 7 it was never stated that Goku used the enrgy from the entire universe, only the Earth, and the statement about the universe in manga was from DBS manga made after 20+ years. I don't mean that it's really that way(only Earth, Namek and Yenma), I think that Goku used the energy from the entire universe at that moment as it was stated on other guidebooks, but I want to say your logic isn't quite right. Also it can be explained that Goku used only the mortal world's planets and stars energy(the universe) and in Buu saga Goku used from the entire macrocosmos(there is no such statement about 'macrocosm' in DB, it's purely fans name but the difference beetwen "the universe" as only the mortal world and "the universe" as Universe 7 started to exist in the Buu saga).
Nullflowerblush said:
Evidently, the "small supernova" claim is a dubistic extrapolation of dialogue from King Kai explaining Goku could potentially destroy Earth itself should he "tap into the astounding powers of the sun"; as in, like with the planets and the atmosphere, Goku can gather genki from the sun, further amplifying the power of the Genkidama.
Click to expand...
That's why I used 3 methods in my calc, with statement about supernova, with Sun+Earth energies=Earth GBE, and Earth's energy=Earth GBE and Sun=Sun GBE. Surprisingly 1(supernova) and 3(GBE) methods are pretty close.
Nullflowerblush said:
"Innumerable" and "infinite" are not interchangeable. "Innumerable" is subjective and can refer to any finite quantity, but "infinite" is beyond finity. A total of 1 million planets and stars is an "innumerable" amount of stars for normal humans. Moreover, all of the "innumerable" planets and stars throughout the universe are created by the Supreme Kai across hundreds of millions of years, with a supposedly "infinite" darkness—which, by the way, is the "area" of the universe Yakon's homeworld is in—expanding beyond the observable universe, as per Daizenshuu 4. A universe can be spatially infinite with only a finite quantity of matter, including celestial bodies.
Click to expand...
That's why I created my blog with a variant for finite amount of stars and planets.
Nullflowerblush said:
Yes, your math uses numbers.
Click to expand...
Is it good or bad?
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Against Frieza, Goku created an extra-large Genkidama using the energy from "All planets close to Namek!"; against Kid Buu, Goku created a Super Genkidama using energy from life-forms across the "entire universe" (as in, from Earth, from King Kai, from Namek and from King Yemma).

Evidently, the "small supernova" claim is a dubistic extrapolation of dialogue from King Kai explaining Goku could potentially destroy Earth itself should he "tap into the astounding powers of the sun"; as in, like with the planets and the atmosphere, Goku can gather genki from the sun, further amplifying the power of the Genkidama.

"Innumerable" and "infinite" are not interchangeable. "Innumerable" is subjective and can refer to any finite quantity, but "infinite" is beyond finity. A total of 1 million planets and stars is an "innumerable" amount of stars for normal humans. Moreover, all of the "innumerable" planets and stars throughout the universe are created by the Supreme Kai across hundreds of millions of years, with a supposedly "infinite" darkness—which, by the way, is the "area" of the universe Yakon's homeworld is in—expanding beyond the observable universe, as per Daizenshuu 4. A universe can be spatially infinite with only a finite quantity of matter, including celestial bodies.

Yes, your math uses numbers.
Click to expand...
Btw what do you think about "power to destroy the universe" statements?
 
I disagree fra, nothing in the Manga implies universal Frieza
He wields enough terrifying power to destroy the entire universe
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Is a guidebook statement which in this case can be considered Hyperbole. No one in early dragon ball touches universal.
 
Zanesucksatlife said:
I disagree fra, nothing in the Manga implies universal Frieza

Is a guidebook statement which in this case can be considered Hyperbole. No one in early dragon ball touches universal.
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In anime(both Kai and Z) it was stated several time that he wields this power(links are already there), so I doupt it's a hyperbole for anime. But what do you think about Genkidama(both infinite and finite amount of energy)?
 
Mgebrat282 said:
In anime(both Kai and Z) it was stated several time that he wields this power(links are already there), so I doupt it's a hyperbole for anime. But what do you think about Genkidama(both infinite and finite amount of energy)?
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Hyperbole:
exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.
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Just because it was said and , doesn't mean it can't be Hyperbole. A statement can be Hyperbole depends how it's worded, "It's stated that he'll destroy the universe"
Hyperbole being destroy. Why do we take words at face value if there's no proof of those said statements. Genkidama , it depends on how much KI is gathered. So you can't accurately scale it. And finite and infinite? Wheres proof it can gather infinite energy
 
Zanesucksatlife said:
Hyperbole:

Just because it was said and , doesn't mean it can't be Hyperbole. A statement can be Hyperbole depends how it's worded, "It's stated that he'll destroy the universe"
Hyperbole being destroy. Why do we take words at face value if there's no proof of those said statements. Genkidama , it depends on how much KI is gathered. So you can't accurately scale it. And finite and infinite? Wheres proof it can gather infinite energy
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I know what's a hyperbole, and that the same thing about him having universal destroying power was stated several time over in anime and Shonen Jumo means it's not a hyperbole. Also on the wiki Cell was already accepted as universal by the same quality statements:sneaky:
Did you check my blog about Genkidama?
 
Mgebrat282 said:
I know what's a hyperbole, and that the same thing about him having universal destroying power was stated several time over in anime and Shonen Jump means it's not a hyperbole.
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You clearly don't know what's Hyperbole lmao, universal Frieza is the Hyperbole and + that was in the guidebooks and not the original manga. Now go provide a scan directly in said Manga for "This" if you can't then what I said debunks your whole argument
Speaking of I just read the manga and what you're going for isn't even there.

Mgebrat282 said:
Also on the wiki Cell was already accepted as universal by the same quality statements:sneaky:
Did you check my blog about Genkidama?
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Proof that he was accepted as universal? That emoji is ick ☠️. That blog means nothing, those calculations don't mean a whole lot either. If all that "Evidence" you have in the blog is all you have then.. not enough so w this , I have debunked what you said.
Go find a Scan directly from the manga. Not the guidebooks or databooks.
 
Mgebrat282 said:
I know what's a hyperbole, and that the same thing about him having universal destroying power was stated several time over in anime and Shonen Jumo means it's not a hyperbole. Also on the wiki Cell was already accepted as universal by the same quality statements:sneaky:
Did you check my blog about Genkidama?
Click to expand...
Cell has never been universal for the mainline series. Hell, him getting to Solar System Level was an absolute shit show.
 
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