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All Purpose Dragon Ball Thread

Also can we scale manga and anime Buu to infinite speed, since Old Kaioshin said that Buutenks will come to Kaioshin realm(Buutenks didn't know about Shunkan-Ido)?
 
Mgebrat282 said:
Why? All statements about infinite universe come from Daizenshu or other guide books and they're for all DB media
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Yes, but it is not accepted that the infinite universe is accepted within the canon here, due to several opponents repeating the same point, such as Bulma and Null talking about the bubble-shaped universe to refute the infinite universe 🤣
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
Yes, but it is not accepted that the infinite universe is accepted within the canon here, due to several opponents repeating the same point, such as Bulma and Null talking about the bubble-shaped universe to refute the infinite universe 🤣
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In DBZ anime it was stated that kaioshin realm is AT THE EDGE of the universe. So now macrocosmos is finite universe lvl now?
 
Ednaxel2 said:
He doesn't?? He's 6 Universes as a SSB, in base he's 3 Universes for being stronger than Goku from bog
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Don't you notice? He was 3 universes, but after becoming SSB, which is a multiplier, he became 6 universes. So he added 3 universes from multiplier because SSB is a multiplier
 
Mgebrat282 said:
Don't you notice? He was 3 universes, but after becoming SSB, which is a multiplier, he became 6 universes. So he added 3 universes from multiplier because SSB is a multiplier
Click to expand...
It takes a few seconds to read the actual justification for him being 6 universes. SSB's multiplier is not a factor at all
Was stated to have power beyond the understanding the Kaioshins had of the Destroyers, which would include the known prohibition of two Destroyers fighting that results in the annihilated of two universes.
Click to expand...
 
Ednaxel2 said:
It takes a few seconds to read the actual justification for him being 6 universes. SSB's multiplier is not a factor at all
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I know it's not the factor in itself, but it's why he got that lvl. If he was just 3 universes in base form, then he couldn't get 6 universes by transforming in SSB because SSB IS A MILTIPLIER, by your logic.
 
Mgebrat282 said:
I know it's not the factor in itself, but it's why he got that lvl. If he was just 3 universes in base form, then he couldn't get 6 universes by transforming in SSB because SSB IS A MILTIPLIER, by your logic.
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SSB is an amp by an unknown amount, if it was canonically said to be finite then yeah he would be 6 universes in base but we don't know that. All we can do is estimate a lowball or a finite multiplier for SSB.
 
Ednaxel2 said:
SSB is an amp by an unknown amount, if it was canonically said to be finite then yeah he would be 6 universes in base but we don't know that. All we can do is estimate a lowball or a finite multiplier for SSB.
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That's even better. SSB is SSG but multiplied by SS1(50-500), so this gap(from 3 universes to 6) was made by a SSG multiplier, which is consistent since in both manga and anime SSG is another lvl trasformation in comparison to SS1-2-3. That would make Goku in BoG 6 universes cuz he was already 3 universes in SS3 in Buu saga, then 6 universes base Goku in the end of BoG as he absorbed this power into his base. But to get it higher we need to choose, does SSG doubles universes or it just gives 3 universes?
 
Mgebrat282 said:
That's even better. SSB is SSG but multiplied by SS1(50-500), so this gap(from 3 universes to 6) was made by a SSG multiplier
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Yeah an unknown amp that we shouldn't make objective quantifications for
Mgebrat282 said:
which is consistent since in both manga and anime SSG is another lvl trasformation in comparison to SS1-2-3. That would make Goku in BoG 6 universes cuz he was already 3 universes in SS3 in Buu saga, then 6 universes base Goku in the end of BoG as he absorbed this power into his base. But to get it higher we need to choose, does SSG doubles universes or it just gives 3 universes?
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Again it's an unknown amp it's only 6 universes for the feats it scales to not for its unknown amp for the scaling. And no it doesn't double or give 3 universes as an amp, again it's just scaling to feats of that level
 
Ednaxel2 said:
Yeah an unknown amp that we shouldn't make objective quantifications for

Again it's an unknown amp it's only 6 universes for the feats it scales to not for its unknown amp for the scaling. And no it doesn't double or give 3 universes as an amp, again it's just scaling to feats of that level
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"It multiplies his power from 3 universes to 6 universes, but it doesn't multiplies power". If SSB doesn't increase the number of universes, then it shouldn't increase from 3 to 6 universes, but for some reason, it does increase to 6 universes. Do you see the logical contradiction here? If it doesn't give a multiplier in universes, then it shouldn't give Vegito universes, no matter if it's scaling to statements on that lvl(that's not a feat because they didn't destroy 2 macrocosmoses) or not.
 
Mgebrat282 said:
"It multiplies his power from 3 universes to 6 universes, but it doesn't multiplies power"
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Idk how you misread what I said that badly, I'm saying it does function as a fixed multiplier but said multiplier is not the justification for him reaching those levels, just the other feats the forms have.
Mgebrat282 said:
If SSB doesn't increase the number of universes, then it shouldn't increase from 3 to 6 universes, but for some reason, it does increase to 6 universes. Do you see the logical contradiction here? If it doesn't give a multiplier in universes, then it shouldn't give Vegito universes, no matter if it's scaling to statements on that lvl(that's not a feat because they didn't destroy 2 macrocosmoses) or not.
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There's no canonical real statement on these transformations increasing universes, just that they have feats scaling to 6 universes for some characters. The only reason why the characters at base aren't also 6 universes is because the real gap between SSB and base is entirely and utterly unquantifiable.
 
Ednaxel2 said:
Idk how you misread what I said that badly, I'm saying it does function as a fixed multiplier but said multiplier is not the justification for him reaching those levels, just the other feats the forms have.
Click to expand...
If this multiplier is not the reason why he reached this lvl, then it should be his base power because it would make an enourmous contradiction where SSB gives universes, but at the same time it doesn't, and by that it shouldn't let him scale to this statement lvl.
Ednaxel2 said:
There's no canonical real statement on these transformations increasing universes, just that they have feats scaling to 6 universes for some characters. The only reason why the characters at base aren't also 6 universes is because the real gap between SSB and base is entirely and utterly unquantifiable.
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And there is no statements that to reach other other universes you need to cross an "unknown"(immesuarble) distance in like 99% of verses, but somehow this wiki still makes this rule, so because it was stated that transformations increase power by authors logic it would give more universes. Also we know difference between SSB and base, it's SSG*SS1(50-500 multiplier), and this power amp doesn't varies from one character to another, cuz it's a transformation for power boost.
 
Mgebrat282 said:
If this multiplier is not the reason why he reached this lvl, then it should be his base power because it would make an enourmous contradiction where SSB gives universes, but at the same time it doesn't, and by that it shouldn't let him scale to this statement lvl.
Click to expand...
Nothing implies SSB increases the amount of universes AND nothing implies there's a finite gap between SSB and base, hence why we just don't make assumptions for either case and just scale just SSB to 6 universes for Vegito at this point.
Mgebrat282 said:
so because it was stated that transformations increase power by authors logic it would give more universes
Click to expand...
no-correlation-what.png

Mgebrat282 said:
Also we know difference between SSB and base, it's SSG*SS1(50-500 multiplier)
Click to expand...
That just means we know the difference between it and SSG, until you have evidence for SSG's multiplier then it's still unquantifiable for SSB to base (or SSG to base).

Another thing is you're trying to treat the statistics vsbw gives these characters as canonical, when it isn't. This is just how the site quantifies these feats for its own tiering system, it shouldn't be taken as canonical in anyway. We've already had this discussion for multiple other threads and they've all been rejected.
 
Mgebrat282 said:
this multiplier is not the reason why he reached this lvl, then it should be his base power because it would make an enourmous contradiction where SSB gives universes, but at the same time it doesn't, and by that it shouldn't let him scale to this statement lvl.
Click to expand...
Multipliers per our rules do not give you higher universal levels:
Note 1:

Because the distance between any given number of universes embedded in higher-dimensional / higher-order spaces is currently unknowable, it is impossible to quantify the numerical gap between each one of the sub-tiers in Tier 2. As such, it is not allowed to upgrade such a character based solely on multipliers. For example, someone twice as strong as a Low 2-C character would still be Low 2-C, and someone infinitely more powerful than a 2-C would not be 2-A. This does not mean that the difference between these tiers is greater than infinite, merely that the difference is unknow
Click to expand...
There's a staff thread where we're also adding an explanation with the following justification:
Q: How do multipliers affect Tier 2 and Tier 1 ratings?

A: As stated in the Tiering System note section, a multiplier, even an infinite one, cannot bridge the gap between a universal or dimensional difference. Having said that, a multiplier or a scaling chain could place a character above the baseline version of that respective tier. So, for example, a Low 2-C character could not become 2-C with a multiplier, but they could be above the baseline for that respective tier. When making matches or constructing profiles, it is important to take this into account to make sure how strong a character may be for their respective tier.
Click to expand...
SSB is considered an amplifier which increases his strength from 3x 2-C to 6x 2-C. But there's no actual numerical multiplication going on as there's no mathematical way to quantify that power jump since it involves effecting a slightly more of an insignificant 5-D axis.
 
Ednaxel2 said:
Nothing implies SSB increases the amount of universes AND nothing implies there's a finite gap between SSB and base, hence why we just don't make assumptions for either case and just scale just SSB to 6 universes for Vegito at this point.
Click to expand...
Because it would be illogical. SSB Vegito gets from 3 universes to 6 universe ONLY from SSB multiplier, so by that logic everyone can get more universes from SSG(SSB is SSG with finite mulitplier from SS1, so in terms of universes scaling it shouldn't matter), but somehow we make an assumtion only for Vegito via statements, but in such case this moment should proof that SSG can give universes cuz ONLY this gave Vegito 6 universes logically.
Ednaxel2 said:
That just means we know the difference between it and SSG, until you have evidence for SSG's multiplier then it's still unquantifiable for SSB to base (or SSG to base).
Click to expand...
How would that be unquantifiable if we would know the difference between base and SSG and SSG between SSB?
Ednaxel2 said:
Another thing is you're trying to treat the statistics vsbw gives these characters as canonical, when it isn't. This is just how the site quantifies these feats for its own tiering system, it shouldn't be taken as canonical in anyway. We've already had this discussion for multiple other threads and they've all been rejected.
Click to expand...
I know this ENTIRE wiki is non-canon and just fans yapping and arguing with each other, but isn't it a point? I mean, if we can logically and narrativly consider it as increasing amount of universes, higher dimensions, outerverses, etc, we do it because it's anyway fans sh*t. As if any official source uses vsbw:rolleyes:
 
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