(ACCEPTED) Sliming all Honkai Scaling (GONE BRUTAL)

[SuperNova55555]

A question. In this thread IT was accepted to be +1D against Tree. If this thread still passes, shouldn't tree at least be Low 1-C universe bare minimum?

Just skimming that thread (as with all Garrixian threads) gives me huge red flags. But the Tree can have +1D temporarily until I get to that.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

You miss the point here. Defending is fine, no one is saying you have to accept it as is. Just that Robot is either misreading the text (in which case Nova or someone else will answer him) or he's just repeating something that is clearly false and he knows it. I don't think Nova or anyone else has a problem with supporters of the verse trying to defend their position otherwise.

Same OP whos using scan that retcons existence of compactified dimensions btw lol and somehow gets 2-C out of his ass knowing damn well SoQ and Tree hold infinite bubble/leaf worlds, with both IT and SoQ being unable to be described in mere 3D and 4D sense even.
Like why do you even use compactification scans if u know damn well that the RECENT explanation does not even acknowledge the existence of that.
So now ur left with 10+1D dimensions and ryusuke blatantly confirming that higher dimensions in hoyoverse are>lower dimensions. He also used the "Dimensions can be infinite" so now we use retconned scans to downgrade verse, truly clownery of all time

 

[SuperNova55555]

Same OP whos using scan that retcons existence of compactified dimensions btw lol and somehow gets 2-C out of his ass knowing damn well SoQ and Tree hold infinite bubble/leaf worlds, with both IT and SoQ being unable to be described in mere 3D and 4D sense even.
Like why do you even use compactification scans if u know damn well that the RECENT explanation does not even acknowledge the existence of that.

It retcons it in what way? That it doesn’t mention dimensions at all? If that’s true, then there’s no proof for 11D to begin with regardless.

So now ur left with 10+1D dimensions and ryusuke blatantly confirming that higher dimensions in hoyoverse are>lower dimensions. He also used the "Dimensions can be infinite" so now we use retconned scans to downgrade verse, truly clownery of all time

Both of these are already addressed. I’m fine with 5D for the moment, at least, for the Tree.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

It retcons it in what way? That it doesn’t mention dimensions at all? If that’s true, then there’s no proof for 11D to begin with regardless.

it literally just nukes the acknowledgment of dimensions being compactified, it has nothing to do with this. (scans are below text)

 

[SuperNova55555]

it literally just nukes the acknowledgment of dimensions being compactified, it has nothing to do with this. (scans are below text)

Also I just realized; that the Bubble Universes are explicitly stated to not be the size of the real universe so the “infinite 4D” shtick also has less ground.

Per your thing though, it doesn’t acknowledge any dimensionality.

And about another statement which is the “transfinite” IT thingy; it’s explicitly referring to the part of IT that is beyond leaf worlds, i.e Imaginary Space. Which is (as should be obvious) an anti-feat for Low 1-A (since both my argument and proper classes necessitate that it’s not just a cardinal difference)

 

[Furina003]

Yeah, I’m starting to understand what’s being discussed here. So the core of the downgrade is the assumption that the Imaginary Tree is an 11-dimensional compact space, which would mean it is effectively just a 4-dimensional spacetime with 7 tiny compactified dimensions, making the structure only scale to Tier 2-C.

However, doesn’t Honkai’s own cosmology already provide feats and statements saying that “11D” refers to a structure composed of 10 spatial dimensions plus 1 temporal dimension? If that’s the case, then this already proves that 11D is not a compactified space, but a genuinely extended 11-dimensional spacetime (10+1).

Therefore, I don’t agree with the downgrade if the only basis is a statement claiming it is compact, especially when we also have scans that directly contradict that claim.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

Also I just realized; that the Bubble Universes are explicitly stated to not be the size of the real universe so the “infinite 4D” shtick also has less ground.

And about another statement which is the “transfinite” IT thingy; it’s explicitly referring to the part of IT that is beyond leaf worlds, i.e Imaginary Space. Which is (as should be obvious) an anti-feat for Low 1-A (since both my argument and proper classes necessitate that it’s not just a cardinal difference)

It does not mention imaginary space if comparasion is literally that they wander in lowest cardinal if all honkai is exhausted into the universe what the hell?

 

[SuperNova55555]

It does not mention imaginary space if comparasion is literally that they wander in lowest cardinal if all honkai is exhausted into the universe what the hell?

The lowest cardinal is Aleph-0. IT is stated to be transfinite in comparison (Aleph-1).

However, doesn’t Honkai’s own cosmology already provide feats and statements saying that “11D” refers to a structure composed of 10 spatial dimensions plus 1 temporal dimension? If that’s the case, then this already proves that 11D is not a compactified space, but a genuinely extended 11-dimensional spacetime (10+1).

Negative tracking bro

 

[PedjaTarzan]

Negative tracking bro

Where did you take assumption from ???? its literally mentioned nowhere what the ****

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Yeah, I’m starting to understand what’s being discussed here. So the core of the downgrade is the assumption that the Imaginary Tree is an 11-dimensional compact space, which would mean it is effectively just a 4-dimensional spacetime with 7 tiny compactified dimensions, making the structure only scale to Tier 2-C.

However, doesn’t Honkai’s own cosmology already provide feats and statements saying that “11D” refers to a structure composed of 10 spatial dimensions plus 1 temporal dimension? If that’s the case, then this already proves that 11D is not a compactified space, but a genuinely extended 11-dimensional spacetime (10+1).

Therefore, I don’t agree with the downgrade if the only basis is a statement claiming it is compact, especially when we also have scans that directly contradict that claim.

Compact dimensions are still spatial dimensions… plus the 3+1 dimensions aka 3 of space and 1 of time are explicitly the ones that aren’t compact

 

[SuperNova55555]

Where did you take assumption from ???? its literally mentioned nowhere what the ****

You know exactly what scan I’m referring to.

 

[Maniaunavailable]

ye so ive seen over like 5 people disagree with this thread, so can a mod hop in? we dont want 15 pages again

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

ye so ive seen over like 5 people disagree with this thread, so can a mod hop in? we dont want 15 pages again

@Vietthai96 Hi

 

[Furina003]

Compact dimensions are still spatial dimensions… plus the 3+1 dimensions aka 3 of space and 1 of time are explicitly the ones that aren’t compact

I don't understand what you mean? Please explain in more detail.

In any case, the statement 11d (10+1) is explicitly stated, so it won't make the imaginary tree structure l2c, because h1c should be better.

 

[SuperNova55555]

ye so ive seen over like 5 people disagree with this thread, so can a mod hop in? we dont want 15 pages again

Why do we say this as if the “5 people” aren’t the verse supporters. Literally the 1 admin that came here said the evidence was “damming” lel. You’re just tryna portray the CRT in a bad light so it gets brushed off

 

[SuperNova55555]

I don't understand what you mean? Please explain in more detail.

In any case, the statement 11d (10+1) is explicitly stated, so it won't make the imaginary tree structure l2c, because h1c should be better.

I think you just don’t understand what compact dimensions are. It’s that they’re too small for tiering (since they need to be uncountably infinite).

 

[SweetDao]

I don't understand what you mean? Please explain in more detail.

In any case, the statement 11d (10+1) is explicitly stated, so it won't make the imaginary tree structure l2c, because h1c should be better.

Look. No one is denying that the stuff is 11D, what OP is saying is that it doesn't qualify per our standards.

 

[Maniaunavailable]

Why do we say this as if the “5 people” aren’t the verse supporters. Literally the 1 admin that came here said the evidence was “damming” lel. You’re just tryna portray the CRT in a bad light so it gets brushed off

I mean I disagree and I ain't a supporter, u must be tripping on the CRT, I literally always support ur crt's brother

 

[Furina003]

I think you just don’t understand what compact dimensions are. It’s that they’re too small for tiering (since they need to be uncountably infinite).

didn't I give a scan earlier stating that it was 10d space + 1 temporal, so it's not a compact dimension, but rather a very large spacetime dimension

 

[Maniaunavailable]

Look. No one is denying that the stuff is 11D, what OP is saying is that it doesn't qualify per our standards.

Am confused, it is confirmed to be 11D, but that 11D via vsbw tiers is 1C? how does that work I have never seen it before

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

didn't I give a scan earlier stating that it was 10d space + 1 temporal, so it's not a compact dimension, but rather a very large spacetime dimension

Not trying to be rude but this is like talking to a brick wall. You’re told why that reasoning doesn’t work (compact dimensions are still considered spatial so saying something is a spatial dimension doesn’t automatically make it not compact) then stubbornly proceed to repeat it asking the exact same thing thatd lead to exact same answer.

 

[SuperNova55555]

Am confused, it is confirmed to be 11D, but that 11D via vsbw tiers is 1C? how does that work I have never seen it before

Toaru is gonna go down from High 1-C for these exact reasons soon btw. This has always been a standard

 

[Maniaunavailable]

Toaru is gonna go down from High 1-C for these exact reasons soon btw. This has always been a standard

Gurren Laggan for example had this problem back in the day, where they had 11D as like multiversal, idk why but its funny af. Also what happend to the high hyperversal upgrade to toaru

 

[Furina003]

Look. No one is denying that the stuff is 11D, what OP is saying is that it doesn't qualify per our standards.

yeah i understand that, but i already explained this before

Yeah, I’m starting to understand what’s being discussed here. So the core of the downgrade is the assumption that the Imaginary Tree is an 11-dimensional compact space, which would mean it is effectively just a 4-dimensional spacetime with 7 tiny compactified dimensions, making the structure only scale to Tier 2-C.

However, doesn’t Honkai’s own cosmology already provide feats and statements saying that “11D” refers to a structure composed of 10 spatial dimensions plus 1 temporal dimension? If that’s the case, then this already proves that 11D is not a compactified space, but a genuinely extended 11-dimensional spacetime (10+1).

Therefore, I don’t agree with the downgrade if the only basis is a statement claiming it is compact, especially when we also have scans that directly contradict that claim.

 

[Minophen]

Also I just realized; that the Bubble Universes are explicitly stated to not be the size of the real universe so the “infinite 4D” shtick also has less ground.

Per your thing though, it doesn’t acknowledge any dimensionality.

And about another statement which is the “transfinite” IT thingy; it’s explicitly referring to the part of IT that is beyond leaf worlds, i.e Imaginary Space. Which is (as should be obvious) an anti-feat for Low 1-A (since both my argument and proper classes necessitate that it’s not just a cardinal difference)

Before it gets out of hand, "cosmos" doesn't refer to the imaginary tree. It's referring to the universe HSR takes place in, aka real space.

As for the size of the bubble universe, they shouldn't matter. The length of the dimensional axis of the SoQ are infinite, the only thing that matters is the number of axis it contains.

Since the world that fall into it can inherit up to eleven dimensions, it must have eleven dimensions worth of information for the worlds to inherit. Each universe can also have their own laws, which means theories such as string theory is not gauranteed to apply to other universes.

Since that is the case, their is no evidence to suggest that the dimensions other universes inherit must be compact. Since that is the case, the SoQ must have at least 11 seperate dimensional axis in order for a universe to have the possibility of inheriting up to eleven dimensions

 

[Maniaunavailable]

yeah i understand that, but i already explained this before

I second this, it has like over 3 statments to beign 11 extended dimensions, so like we do need mods (I really don't want this to be 15 pages long again)

 

[Vietthai96]

@Vietthai96 Hi

My life

I'm on phone so mostly i empty texts but the "universe" in Honkai is world in original CN, and they are varies in size, in the Durandal VN, the bubble world Bianca went to was the size of Europe, main Bubble which is the main setting of HI3rd is Solar System sized, iirc the planet Griseo landed is stated to be at the outer edge of the solar system, the HI3rd Silver Wolf patch, the bubble world is the size of a city with moutains surrounding it, iirc, Bronie can travel to the edge of this bubble via motorbike. There is a reason why no one in the verse have Low 2-C or 3 -A and just jump straight to High 1-C

Anyway, i need to review everything i remember about this verse, because Alien Key manga Ryusuke vs Welt scan implied dimensional superiority of higher dimension compare to lower one, but Honkai VN stated there only 4 dimensions extend infinitely while other 7 is curled up which contradict manga scan. So we need to throw out one of the two

Since the world that fall into it can inherit up to eleven dimensions, it must have eleven dimensions worth of information for the worlds to inherit. Each universe can also have their own laws, which means theories such as string theory is not gauranteed to apply to other universes.

Since that is the case, their is no evidence to suggest that the dimensions other universes inherit must be compact. Since that is the case, the SoQ must have at least 11 seperate dimensional axis in order for a universe to have the possibility of inheriting up to eleven dimensions

What?

 

[Furina003]

Not trying to be rude but this is like talking to a brick wall. You’re told why that reasoning doesn’t work (compact dimensions are still considered spatial so saying something is a spatial dimension doesn’t automatically make it not compact) then stubbornly proceed to repeat it asking the exact same thing thatd lead to exact same answer.

compact dimensions are spatial dimensions that are compressed to create a smaller spacetime. 11d is compressed so it is actually just 3+1, but I have already given a proof that it is not compact dimensions. but it is 10d space, which means it is much larger than tier2 space, so saying that it is compact dimensions is not correct because we have scans that say that it is 10d space plus 1 temporal, not 4d with 7 small dimensions in it

 

[SuperNova55555]

Anyway, i need to review everything i remember about this verse, because Alien Key manga Ryusuke vs Welt scan implied dimensional superiority of higher dimension compare to lower one, but Honkai VN stated there only 4 dimensions extend infinitely while other 7 is curled up which contradict manga scan

I don’t mind having +1D explicitly off of this. And this should be part of IT, ye? I’m fine with L1C for it personally.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

My life

I'm on phone so mostly i empty texts but the "universe" in Honkai is world in original CN, and Honkai VN stated there only 4 dimensions extend infinitely while other 7 is curled up which contradict manga scan. So we need to throw out one of the two

the compactified dimensions aint even mentioned in hoyo anymore so ryusuke statement is definetly more reliable anyway with how it is consistently shown that size of soq and it are infinite and combine that with dimensions can be infinite scan

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

My life

I'm on phone so mostly i empty texts but the "universe" in Honkai is world in original CN, and they are varies in size, in the Durandal VN, the bubble world Bianca went to was the size of Europe, main Bubble which is the main setting of HI3rd is Solar System sized, iirc the planet Griseo landed is stated to be at the outer edge of the solar system, the HI3rd Silver Wolf patch, the bubble world is the size of a city with moutains surrounding it, iirc, Bronie can travel to the edge of this bubble via motorbike. There is a reason why no one in the verse have Low 2-C or 3 -A and just jump straight to High 1-C

Anyway, i need to review everything i remember about this verse, because Alien Key manga Ryusuke vs Welt scan implied dimensional superiority of higher dimension compare to lower one, but Honkai VN stated there only 4 dimensions extend infinitely while other 7 is curled up which contradict manga scan. So we need to throw out one of the two



What?

I think thing is dimensional superiority for stuff doesn’t contradict there being compact dimensions. It’s like how you can have significant dimensions and compact ones at the same time. So you don’t really need to throw out one in favor of other.

 

[Minophen]

What?

First part replying to IT IS shenanigans

Second part, nothing says all universes in the SoQ must have compact dimensions, therefore 11D is still valid.

 

[SuperNova55555]

Before it gets out of hand, "cosmos" doesn't refer to the imaginary tree. It's referring to the universe HSR takes place in, aka real space.

I addressed this in the OP. Literally.

Second part, nothing says all universes in the SoQ must have compact dimensions, therefore 11D is still valid.

I also addressed this in the OP. Lol.

 

[Vietthai96]

I think thing is dimensional superiority for stuff doesn’t contradict there being compact dimensions. It’s like how you can have significant dimensions and compact ones at the same time. So you don’t really need to throw out one in favor of other.

Dimensional superiority = higher tier, because Ryusuke use pseudo R > F to describe the relationship between higher dimension and lower one mean higher dimension = higher tier, it is textbook quantitative superiority, as he literally stated Welt can't do anything to him at all with his power. You can't say that higher dimension that trivialized lower one to the point of being fiction somehow not higher tier. Unless Ruysuke dude meant he is 4D compare to 3D Welt, which i don't think is the case here

First part replying to IT IS shenanigans

Second part, nothing says all universes in the SoQ must have compact dimensions, therefore 11D is still valid.

No offense, but nice fanfiction, also unless the bubble have infinite D, you still need to solves the problem that bubble world isn't universe-sized

 

[SuperNova55555]

Dimensional superiority = higher tier, because Ryusuke use pseudo R > F to describe the relationship between higher dimension and lower one mean higher dimension = higher tier, it is textbook quantitative superiority, as he literally stated Welt can't do anything to him at all with his power. You can't say that higher dimension that trivialized lower one to the point of being fiction somehow not higher tier. Unless Ruysuke dude meant he is 4D compare to 3D Welt, which i don't think is the case here

MGQ is saying you can have both compact and normal dimensions. So 1 dimension of the IT is valid for tiering (Low 1-C), but the others don’t apply.

 

[Vietthai96]

MGQ is saying you can have both compact and normal dimensions. So 1 dimension of the IT is valid for tiering (Low 1-C), but the others don’t apply.

The issue is, if you use the 11D Bathtub scans, or the VN, mean SoQ is infinite 4D which is Low 2-C. Unless you argue only IT is Low 1-C

Also i just want to say that Bubble World do not inherit anything, Otto in HI3rd game itself, the main source material, directly stated the world is only 4D space-time, this is also confirmed by the Sirin scan talking about Imaginary Space, unless you guys want to discard main source material

 

[Minophen]

I addressed this in the OP. Literally.

Your argument hinges on the assumption that the "cosmos" mentioned by Cyrene is the Imaginary Tree. However, she said "cosmos' space-time" which means she is talking about real space, aka the universe the main story is taking place in.

As such, imaginary space being L1-A does not contradict anything as all has been told is that imaginary space > real space.

I also addressed this in the OP. Lol.

Your argument hinges on M-theory and string theory. However, it is explicitly stated that each universe inherets different dimensions and laws. As such, the aforementioned theories should not apply to the other universes in the sea.

Since they do not apply, there is nothing restricting a universe from inheriting 11 non-compact dimensions. Since the sea is infinite in size, it must also be at least 11D in order to be able to hold these universes.

 

[SweetDao]

Since they do not apply, there is nothing restricting a universe from inheriting 11 non-compact dimensions. Since the sea is infinite in size, it must also be at least 11D in order to be able to hold these universes.

Always if, never is

 

[SuperNova55555]

Your argument hinges on the assumption that the "cosmos" mentioned by Cyrene is the Imaginary Tree. However, she said "cosmos' space-time" which means she is talking about real space, aka the universe the main story is taking place in.

As such, imaginary space being L1-A does not contradict anything as all has been told is that imaginary space > real space.

No, the argument hinges on the fact that she affirmed the cosmos has a real space-time. Which also implies the place where they are at (Path Space) is the Imaginary Space-Time of the cosmos.

The issue is, if you use the 11D Bathtub scans, or the VN, mean SoQ is infinite 4D which is Low 2-C. Unless you argue only IT is Low 1-C

Only IT works.

 

[SuperNova55555]

Always if, never is

Btw, just the fact that they can compactify naturally is an anti-feat. But the issue is much more deep and I’ve already talked about this specific thing in the OP. Bro gen hasn’t read my post lol