-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
UNDERTALE/DELTARUNE [shiny new] DISCUSSION THEAD
- Thread starter ZillertheBucko
- Start date
- 7,199
- 7,581
Well I heavily disagree with that. Monika exists in a simulated reality. It is "real" to her but still a lower form of reality than the "real-world" of the game, which is obviously supposed to be a standard universe identical to ours in the real world. Monika does not exist in some parallel universe, she exists in a limited and confined simulated reality and has control over it but is fundamentally a lower tier of existence to those residing in the "prime" reality. Or are we also saying that the people working at the MES company are outerversal?
- 7,199
- 7,581
Oh you came here to talk about it too lmao.
Anonymous_Learner
He/Him- 6,797
- 6,056
wait til bro finds out the Metaverse company's low multi while Monika's Uni+
- 128
- 19
Oh, wait, was this based off of my contributions? Thank you, regardless if it was or not.
Also, I thought that General Discussion threads were just for talking about the story when seeing them on Google, I didn't know they were a part of this forum. Yet another logic mistake, sorry.
Anyway, what other characters do you think scale from this?
Also, do you agree with what I've said about the Dark World laws, DETERMINATION, and the soul being above each other or not?
I will come back to this verse later this month, but I will try to be quick about it.
- 1,796
- 864
- 128
- 19
I concede that I have made some logical errors due to mistakes. I think the Weather duo does have temperature control to a greater extent than what I was saying, but I don't think the Delta Warriors scale to it. It seems like a representation of predictions and emotion and what they can do, but never show.
I do think the Delta Warriors scale to the similar and stronger Tenna's Method 2 with High End, though. Tenna should have Heat Manip and Air Manip too. And Tenna views his own danmaku and minigames as stronger offensively than anything he has done before. The Chapter 3 and 4 Delta Warriors, Knight, Gerson, and Titan might be able to no-sell said feat, and various AoE and other powerful attacks as a whole, meaning the danmaku and minigame losses are pretty strong, but I'm not 100% confident yet.
Chapter 1 and 2 characters should also be roughly comparable to him, as King isn't too far behind in stats and has more combat skill despite being weaker.
- 19,326
- 12,030
Damn so the MES people are lying, that statement is worthless, I gotchu.
- 7,199
- 7,581
A simulated universe is still a lower form of reality lol. There is literally no evidence that Monika's universe is of the same complexity as a standard baseline universe because it is canonically a video game world, not an alternate timeline to ours that MES somehow created to observe. That literally contradicts the entire concept of this narrative.
Via controlling multiple simulated universes. Them being universes does not mean they are the same as the universe we live in. They can be similar, but they'll never be the same. That's like saying I'm universal+ or low multiversal because I can run DDLC on my computer, alter it however I please, or delete it on a whim. From the perspective of the game world, I'm essentially omnipotent, but that's not because I'm a reality warper, it's because they're beneath my reality, such to the extent that they are literally powerless against me. The MES company is supposed to represent a baseline universe, and the DDLC VM universe's are a lower reality created by them as an experiment to try proving or debunking the theory that their (our) universe is actually a simulation of itself created by even higher beings than us. Therefor, we, in a 4-dimensional reality as 3-dimensional beings, crafted by higher-dimensional beings than us (theoretically), are infinitely transcendent over a lower form of reality that we created.
A MES worker saying their reality is as real as ours is does not mean they are the same thing btw. I hope you already know that.
- 7,199
- 7,581
Anyways take it to my profile if you wanna keep talking about it this is completely off-topic for UT/DR.
- 19,326
- 12,030
Nobody cares about your headcanons of the narrative lol, the MES literally has stated that Monika's universe is as real as theirs, and there's no contradiction besides this big nothingburger of you saying "it's not because I say so".
It's as if you know more than the literal creators of the game, and I don't think that in-universe Death of the Author is a thing ngl.
- 128
- 19
Thanks.
Also, I think a Deltarune downgrade should be a note in Weaknesses explaining that Darkners do have some organic needs and can't fight forever as food is a requirement. Yes, for real, the existence of toilets is a plot point that is a difference in both Dark and Light Worlds between DR and UT. I know this is something straight out of that one Roblox thread, but it is.
I believe that everything but the Knight and similar out of context beings should "act" organic to an extent, and as a result, stamina is affected, even if they have Inorganic Physiology.
Additionally, I think Gerson needs a separate and higher tier mentioned for not holding back to make bloodlusted matches easier. I think that Gerson fighting seriously would be roughly the same multiplier that Queen gains from being GIGA Queen, as even Gerson deliberately fighting weaker than he is capable of to let Susie use magic with him is still enough to hurt the Titan. And the Titan is way stronger than GIGA Queen.
I don't know the multiplier that GIGA Queen has, but I think this could potentially lead to a separate 7-A tier for serious Gerson.
Speaking of GIGA Queen, I think increased speed justification is needed. Thrash Machine needs to state that Laser Mode gives a "light-quick aura" that should be FTL, as Queen can dodge and the Thrash Machine is roughly comparable. With "light-quick" being a good comparison due to the connotations that certain objects have in the Dark World, but a metaphorical one that downplays. GIGA Queen, Titan, Gerson, the Roaring Knight, Chapter 4 Fun Gang, and the Player should all scale. And the Player also needs speed additions with everything related to the SOUL in-game in general, as well as the SOUL having light that can hit an FTL Titan.
- 7,199
- 7,581
That's completely miscontextualizing the statement. Is your only way of arguing with someone to insult them? You're toxic in literally every single discussion I've seen you in and it's gotten old as hell.
You're ranting about nothing atp nor addressing a single thing I actually said. I'm just not gonna bother with you lowkey.
- 19,326
- 12,030
These are all just unknown upscales tbf. They won't grant a tier jump without a real stated multiplier.
- 19,326
- 12,030
All that I am doing is calling you out on you downright forcing your interpretation over in-verse statements, it's not even like they're hyperboles/flowery language. I didn't even insult you, I just called your points silly.
About this, we literally do treat R>F gaps that do not qualify as superiority as just a parallel universe, too. Looney Tunes, EarthBound or OneShot are examples.
If you disagree with how we treat stuff, that's on you, also because even UTDR rn is in the same boat.
- 7,199
- 7,581
This is a generic excuse. You know when you word something in an insulting way, and you do it to people constantly, not just myself. Be better. I can word things rudely to people too sometimes but I try to be conscious about keeping a filter on when I speak to people.
It is superiority in this case. And like I already said, I'm not going to talk about this anymore in this thread.
I already have said many times in this thread and others that I disagree with an extremely large amount of things on Vs. Battles Wiki. Vs. Battles Wiki is compiled by a large group of different people who have different opinions, perspectives, and ways of interpreting things. I don't know if you're a Dragon Ball fan, but there was a time where Toppo won against Jiren in a versus thread because, according to the wiki's standards, Jiren never resisted Hakai on-screen, so that means Toppo would easily defeat him, even if he stood still. And if you regarded how ridiculous this is, the only response you'd get is "Argument from Incredulity fallacy". In the actual anime, Jiren is verbatim far stronger than Toppo and would neg-diff him while holding back. I don't automatically view things on the wiki as fact, or even "likely accurate", I use the wiki a reference for evidence, but the fact remains that it is managed and updated by individual people on the internet. And people are wrong all the time, myself included.
Anyways that was a pointless rant because it's literally not in application in this context. Though I don't see how OneShot is an example of that, but again, completely off-topic. UTDR is not in the same boat as DDLC, even remotely.
- 128
- 19
Why not times 13 for Thrash Machine and with a size multiplier added on top of that as a comparison?
SnakesCity
He/Him- 315
- 418
He already has sealing via toy capsules and this is a little too vague to give him anything i think.
- 3,106
- 3,912
At best it'd be a limited sealing
At worst, water spirits are just notably weak to being placed inside containers due to their liquid nature
At worst, water spirits are just notably weak to being placed inside containers due to their liquid nature
OrangeFR
Username Only- 1,714
- 1,031
It specifically says “liquid contracts”, so it is likely he used contracts to force them in them.
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 13,642
- 6,689
They get outta them pretty easily in CH4 so Tenna definitely did more than that.
- 3,106
- 3,912
Yeah then it's probably just the same thing he did with the rest of his workers
SnakesCity
He/Him- 315
- 418
****** up when your boss can bind your physical form with a contract.
- 128
- 19
People have criticized my focus on Deltarune Law Manipulation in the past, but I think it is important to hash out exactly what it is and how it works in context to the Darkners and the Player.
As strong Darkners like Tenna can use his powers separate from Roulxs-granted amps to stop the Dark World turning the Mizzles into stone, and there are separate "laws" in the verse that say things like Lightner DETERMINATION and the "will" (for lack of a better term, Ralsei says this to describe the SOUL in Chapter 1, but will is the best term for a non-DT metaphysical force of both Lightners and Darkners, as he was talking in the context of others assuming this was Kris's SOUL) of Ralsei can be stopped by Tenna's cards, but later, the trio is immune to the effect.
And the SOUL is very different in nature to everything else.
Speaking of getting stronger over time, I think various amps should be pointed out in more profiles. Such as Kris, Susie, and Ralsei being vulnerable to Tenna/Roulxs's card stuff before the end of the Chapter, but being able to resist it by close to the end of Chapter 3. And I have mentioned this before, but I think GIGA Queen should be mentioned to have a multiplier amp as better justification. I believe it should be an unknown amount over 15x plus a size multiplier comparison amp, as it's stronger than Thrash Machine. And I think Thrash Machine should have that as an amp due to that being the maximum amount of entities that makes it up, plus the original Machine from Chapter 1 meaning more than a + 1x boost. GIGA Queen ultimately wins against it, no matter if you use the minimum or maximum amount of beings to make the mech.
Also, if the amp is valid, Gerson when not holding back in a separate tier and the Titan should also be scaled to it.
And potentially in Gerson's profile when comparing him to Knight should be replaced with "most likely."
LittleGuy99
He/Him- 1,274
- 1,015
Froggit vs Ribbick - Undertale vs Deltarune (0-0-0)
What Vs Rules Card: Fight takes place in a Dark World made in the Ruins. Froggit is using the first key. Both are in-character. Stats are equalized. Starting distance is 10 meters. Votes: "Ribbit, ribbit.": 0 "A lost and lost and lost girl.": 0 Incon: 0
Lilybitdun
She/Her- 2,452
- 1,440
LittleGuy99
He/Him- 1,274
- 1,015
Well, finally every resident of Castle Town has a profile!
I just need to find good matchups that aren't stomps for each side
I just need to find good matchups that aren't stomps for each side
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 13,642
- 6,689
The Roaring Knight
The Roaring Knight, also known simply as The Knight is the main antagonist of Deltarune. Prior to Chapter 1, they opened a Dark Fountain within Hometown's abandoned classroom, creating the Card Kingdom and setting the events of the game into motion. Later, prior to Chapter 2, they would go on to...
vsbattles.fandom.com
LittleGuy99
He/Him- 1,274
- 1,015
That would be funThe Roaring Knight
The Roaring Knight, also known simply as The Knight is the main antagonist of Deltarune. Prior to Chapter 1, they opened a Dark Fountain within Hometown's abandoned classroom, creating the Card Kingdom and setting the events of the game into motion. Later, prior to Chapter 2, they would go on to...
LittleGuy99
He/Him- 1,274
- 1,015
Maybe I know someone
LittleGuy99
He/Him- 1,274
- 1,015
Kamen Rider Geats Vs Castle Town - Kamen Rider vs Deltarune (0-0-0)
Vs Rules Card: Fight takes place in Castle Town. Encounter Arc (Ep 2 - 9) Geats is used. Only Darkners are used. Restricted to 8-A. Everyone is in-character. Speed is equalized. Starting distance is 10 meters. Votes: Kamen Rider Geats: 0 AP/Dura: 5.33 Tons of TNT with Magnum Shooter and as...
Last edited:
- 7,199
- 7,581
Crazy how if he were in Undertale he'd just slaughter 99% of the verse then hit a god-tier and immediately get turned to paste on the ground.
I genuinely love the power gap between the god-tiers and everyone else.
- 7,199
- 7,581
Side note do we think Pacifist Frisk could SAVE All For One and/or Shigaraki?
LittleGuy99
He/Him- 1,274
- 1,015
Frisk could SAVE Shigaraki without any problems
Ghengiroo115
She/Her- 2,429
- 1,917
Frisk can definitely SAVE Tomura, but All For One is hard to say. AFO honestly has a lot of similarities to Flowey, but the ways they differ make me unsure if Frisk could get through to him.
Last edited:
Qurbonboev
He/Him- 2,757
- 1,645
(GRACE) Two lesbians fight for the title of gayest one (Noelle Holiday vs Quanxi) [ 7-0-0 ]
Quanxi starts untransformed(but it isn't restricted) Distance is 20 meters Location is Dark World in Tokyo Speed is equalized Quanxi has prior knowledge about Noelle spatial hax SBA otherwise The First Devil Hunter: Scales to 100 tons of TNT, 443.66 with weapons. Class 100 Transformed: Scales...
SnakesCity
He/Him- 315
- 418
Of course Toby drops a mere piece of incredibly important shadow crystal lore in a twitter post.
Similar threads
- Locked
