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Rule Violation Reports (New forum)

LephyrTheRevanchist said:
See, after reading everything, I don't. Because we are falling back again and again to the same patterns here. Vzearr has shown so much insistency that they have changed, pushed and pushed and pushed despite told that they just needed to be patient. But when push came to shove, they went back to the same behavior. Now they even, using their words, "challenge position" in an attempt to "exposed where someone hids".

Those aren't simple reactionary comments to me. Those aren't the words of someone that just needs a warning to properly get the memo. That's someone that seriously needs to start evaluating themselves and their behavior, that when practically everyone is telling them they're messing up, they deflect and shift blame. And we are not their therapists to keep holding on to the hope that they will listen. That they need to do themselves.

I refuse to keep giving the benefit of the doubt here. I would support a straight ban, of the absolute least a month.

I will not comment again on this. Just close this by saying that whatever decision staff comes to at this point, it is what it is, I support it.
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My recommendation of a warning came before the following disaster, mind you; all that had transpired then was a toxic retort via the One Piece thread, and nothing more. I would like to hear at least one or two other opinions before we ban someone here. In light of the situation, I'll ping @Damage3245 @KingTempest @Reiner04 @Nierre as staff who had spoken on the respective thread (any others who see this are, too, welcome to weigh in, of course).
 
I mean, I completely agree with a ban, and frankly not sure why he's still around.

I was going to write up something when I saw your report and saw you went for a warning and so I didn't want to push for anything more, but seeing how Leph brings it up then I share the same sentiment.

I have no idea how long he's been back since his demotion, but he has constantly been in and out of drama since then and I haven't seen any sign of improvement IMO. All I've seen from his behavior is bickering and snarky comments towards other users and staff if they disagree with him, but I will admit that I do not interact with him that much so I cannot say he's always like that.
 
Nierre said:
I mean, I completely agree with a ban, and frankly not sure why he's still around.

I was going to write up something when I saw your report and saw you went for a warning and so I didn't want to push for anything more, but seeing how Leph brings it up then I share the same sentiment.

I have no idea how long he's been back since his demotion, but he has constantly been in and out of drama since then and I haven't seen any sign of improvement IMO. All I've seen from his behavior is bickering and snarky comments towards other users and staff if they disagree with him, but I will admit that I do not interact with him that much so I cannot say he's always like that.
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If memory serves it's been 6-7 months (NVM it's only been a couple of months) since he's been back and he's consistently and constantly been stirring up drama since, especially with his barrage of nonsensical threads, for which I think he received a temporary threadban for here not too long ago.

My own experience with him has been nothing short of dreadful, to say the least. But I won't bother elaborating on that as Bambu has already showcased with evidence exactly how that usually goes down. Dead horse and all that.

All in all, I too support a ban. As for the duration? I have no control over that, much as I would like to suggest one (If I speak I am in big trouble). In the hands of admins and bureaucrats.
 
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I'd say a warning already happened, in the thread, by multiple staff, and it was glossed over.

The initial remarks before the warning really aren't that deep, it's just light banter (including his) until this comment
Yeah no, yall are not refuting the OP at all I'm genuinely flabbergasted at this performance from OP fans. Eh, it is typical though, iirc. HST fans cannot debate and resort to insults, which should be handled.
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Bambu warned him, but not just him but technically the whole thread.
You. Stop. Now.

In general: the thread is quickly being reduced to insult-tossing. I don't give a shit about the verse but I give a shit about the rules being followed. I have low tolerance for the situation at hand. Knock it off.
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When Bambu asked him to stop, he jabbed back at him instead of actually trying to progress with the thread (deleted message so I won't beat dead horses).

Vzearr has a stigma against the HST (like most people), but it comes off more as disrespect than actual meaningful disagreement. Most staff don't touch the HST, for very good reason, but instead he touches it and he just throws jabs, like his random jab here in a demon slayer thread.

It's one thing to have an opinion on a group's scalers, it's another to openly antagonize. Do as you will, I don't like saying people should be banned, it's usually a last case scenario for me but I'm more graceful than others
 
A ban for this is ridiculous, he clearly thought they were being rude and started to be kind of rude back, which is a normal human reaction, banning for such a trivial matter is insane. He obviously didn't make it any better in here but now he's probably actually upset, still doesn't warrant a ban and probably not even a warning besides verbal.
 
Avaritia_603 said:
A ban for this is ridiculous, he clearly thought they were being rude and started to be kind of rude back, which is a normal human reaction, banning for such a trivial matter is insane. He obviously didn't make it any better in here but now he's probably actually upset, still doesn't warrant a ban and probably not even a warning besides verbal.
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You're missing so much context it's ridiculous

Vzearr has a large resume of bad behavior on this wiki, having 2 strikes based on antagonizing behavior
First Warning, Second Warning
Everybody was verbally warned in that thread by Random-Helper323, and he responded to that with this
Yeah no, yall are not refuting the OP at all I'm genuinely flabbergasted at this performance from OP fans. Eh, it is typical though, iirc. HST fans cannot debate and resort to insults, which should be handled.
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With a series wide insult to the fanbase. And he was warned for it by Bambu.
In later messages which were deleted to the public except the staff, he responded to his warning by calling him a biased corny guy and "the definition of a corrupt staff member", taunting him after with more statements, and overall being antagonistic. And that was that thread alone, not even the rvr in here, where he continued.

So no
 
Avaritia_603 said:
A ban for this is ridiculous, he clearly thought they were being rude and started to be kind of rude back, which is a normal human reaction, banning for such a trivial matter is insane. He obviously didn't make it any better in here but now he's probably actually upset, still doesn't warrant a ban and probably not even a warning besides verbal.
Click to expand...
Originally had deleted it for being a non staff comment about the situation, but undeleting it based on KingTempest's response, so it retains proper context. This is not an invitation to comment again on the situation, as it has been resolved (so I will also delete CodeCCLL's comment, apologies).
 
It's worth noting, for posterity, that this ban is not simply for Vzearr's deleted comments on the original thread, but also for his response here, as well as a side conversation including Lephyr, myself, Damage, and DDM wherein Vzearr continued the trend of behavior. I recognize that it sucks that not all of this can be public, but I do want it to be known that there are deleted comments and tangential conversations that have amounted to this action being taken; however, even the forward-facing stuff of blatantly ignoring warnings probably constitutes enough of an infraction for a ban.

Now. The matter is settled, and we ought not dwell on it.
 
@Avaritia_603 Non-staff are not permitted to speak on the RVRT, unless they are directly involved in a case; you are not. If you would like to discuss this with KingTempest, do so off-thread; the same goes if you would like to discuss with other staff members. For now, the matter is resolved in regards to this thread.
 
Saying this just as a heads up, but it seems like Vzearr and Avaritia_603 most likely communicate with each other offsite to target and debate against verses, you can briefly see that here by reading the through the Lookism CRT

Only sharing because it looks like suspicious behavior of them both trying to attack verses based on some sort of spite and this is now also showcased recently with this new Thread against One Piece.. Not suggesting any actions to be done only for staff to be made aware
 
MonkeyOfLife said:
Saying this just as a heads up, but it seems like Vzearr and Avaritia_603 most likely communicate with each other offsite to target and debate against verses, you can briefly see that here by reading the through the Lookism CRT

Only sharing because it looks like suspicious behavior of them both trying to attack verses based on some sort of spite and this is now also showcased recently with this new Thread
Click to expand...
Thanks for that but collaborating to downgrade isn't really a crime. Could show motive but he (Avaritia) hasn't done anything report worthy so I guess this is more of a bookmark for the future instead of anything specifically. The spite reasoning is just an assumption. People collaborate based on hyperfavoritism, spite isn't an issue if the line of logic is valid. It's not like 2 staff bouncing back and forth using their evaluation status to implement things.
 
After considering it, I'm not sure about a one month ban.

Tensions started with a snide comment by That_moron2, which Vzearr responded to in kind. Vzearr then made a snide comment towards KingTempest. Kachon123 made a slightly snide comment about the thread as a whole. After which, Random-Helper323 vaguely told everyone to calm down. At this point, I don't think any comments made have been rule violations, but they have stepped up the temperature a bit, so it's understandable for Random to try to bring that back down.

After that, Vzearr made a direct and false insult against multiple users in the thread. That_moron2 responded with an image indicating they found Vzearr's post funny. Mr. Bambu warned Vzearr specifically, and people in the thread in general, over this. Bambu's warning makes sense; Vzearr's post was a rule violation and a significant escalation in that. That_moron's post was, to some degree, mocking, but not to the extent of being a rule violation; it's probably good to get them to calm down too, but their post is not the most important to tackle, there.

After which Vzearr made these largely-visible responses denying all wrongdoing, deflecting, and insulting people.

Taking all that (and his extensive history) into consideration, I'm not sure one month would be sufficient. I'd want something like 3 months, with it possibly getting reduced to 1 month on appeal. If he ultimately can't own up to his behaviour there being much worse than anyone else's, it's hard to trust him to act better when he returns; it's not really a moment where he was overcome with anger, he feels justified in this.

holy shit Agnaa arguing for a longer ban for someone being rude?!?
 
Vzearr said:
I'll take a warning, or even a ban for this comment, but god let me be I will do everything in my power to make sure YOU bambu, are exposed for who you hid to be.
Click to expand...
He said this, so I suspect he's not gonna be backing down, if anything he might double down on his tirades against us (Specifically Bambu, me and you- Agnaa).

Just something to note and keep in mind in advance once he returns.
 
Agnaa said:
Taking all that (and his extensive history) into consideration, I'm not sure one month would be sufficient. I'd want something like 3 months, with it possibly getting reduced to 1 month on appeal. If he ultimately can't own up to his behaviour there being much worse than anyone else's, it's hard to trust him to act better when he returns; it's not really a moment where he was overcome with anger, he feels justified in this.

holy shit Agnaa arguing for a longer ban for someone being rude?!?
Click to expand...
Vzearr has received a lot of additional leeway and sympathy, and I think it understandable to be annoyed at this point and swing the other direction.

I try to be strictly practical, and from that perspective their repeated abuse of that leeway and clear unwillingness to admit wrong and insistence on continuing to make it something personal bodes very poorly for any chance of genuine reform.

It feels to me like this is a kind of resentment which will only continue to build, and at the very least being lenient has clearly not worked, so we ought to try being more strict. That is to say, I wouldn't be opposed to extending their ban to three months.

On an unrelated note, was the situation involving Napoleonic01 ever dealt with?
 
Let me preface this by saying that I acknowledge that the following is a flawed perspective.

In situations like this, where I have a history of conflict with the user, I prefer to defer to the wisdom of others on things like ban duration. I over-correct for my own mind. I was against Vzearr's return to begin with; to erase bias, I leave extreme actions to others. This obviously leaves issues. I can weigh in but I muzzle myself to prevent unfairness from escaping from me.

If it is so desired, I would be fine with a 3 month ban. That is, I am not personally opposed if we wished to increase it.
 
Tempestdragon6 said:
Hey Bambs I have a question (this has nothing to do with your current ban discussion) Can someone be reported if they are intentionally ignoring others argument and spitting random bullsh*t sorry for the profanity
Click to expand...
Depends on what you mean by 'spitting random bullshit.' If they are intentionally derailing or clogging the thread, then yes, they can be given a warning. However, if they are simply arguing for a different interpretation or belief without being aggressive or disrespectful, then no. Most of the time, its case-by-case.
 
Robo432343 said:
the entire thread is calling everyone biased so i thought its ok for me to join
Click to expand...
While it is okay to express discontent regarding a thread's results, conclusion, or a specific judgment, please ensure you do not name individuals or accuse them of bias. Doing so can derail the thread of its original topic and lead to unnecessarily heated back n forth bickering and insults. If you have a strong basis for an accusation, report it according to our guidelines rather than addressing it publicly. Make sure to follow this approach in the future.
 
I would much prefer if Vzearr only keeps his 1 month warning ban. His offences did not seem particularly severe, and he needs my help and I don't want his mental state to deteriorate further. 🙏
 
Antvasima said:
I would much prefer if Vzearr only keeps his 1 month warning ban. His offences did not seem particularly severe, and he needs my help and I don't want his mental state to deteriorate further. 🙏
Click to expand...
It's not our responsibility to be lenient on rule-breakers for the sake of their mental state. Otherwise every rule-breaker would claim to be having issues.

I don't think the ban needs to be raised to 3 months, but the consensus on a ban being required seemed fair.
 
I agree with Damage. We are not a therapy group. There are people who have it off far worse than Vzearr who are in more desperate need of help but don't get it. It's all good that you care about him but there need to be hard limits to this kind of shit. We have given him plenty of leniency time and time again and he refuses to change. He has mocked staff members every step of the way, makes excuses, displaces blame, does a great many things, in fact, except take responsibility. Hell, he even declared that he will not stop until he has Bambu "exposed for what he hides", which sounds like a threat to me. The fact that we are only giving him a 3-month ban (Anyone else would have been permabanned for this) is already lenient enough as it is.

A consensus has been reached, Ant. Please do not try to override it behind the staffs' backs. If nothing else, wait for everyone else who was involved in the voting process to respond back. And if they disagree with you, then that shall be that. But do not try to veto their consensus like this or if they disagree with you again afterwards, it gives off a bad image.

If need be, I will tag more admins to take a look.
 
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To be blunt, I'm surprised he's still even on the site after the vapourr fiasco. He's had a lot of chances and he's gotten leniency some members here could only dream of.

A 3 month ban is nothing compared to what he genuinely needs. I'm against anything below that
 
Mr. Bambu said:
On this note, formally reporting @Vzearr for poor behavior in this thread. Initially wasn't so bad, eventually began instigating verse supporters with direct insults, ignored two general staff comments (first Random, then myself) to stop drama-baiting. He responded to mine directly with further toxicity (comment has been deleted, admins can of course view it). Recommending a warning for now, but I have a feeling in my gut that this is one of those wounds that will not be allowed to scab over and heal.
Click to expand...
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
See, after reading everything, I don't. Because we are falling back again and again to the same patterns here. Vzearr has shown so much insistency that they have changed, pushed and pushed and pushed despite told that they just needed to be patient. But when push came to shove, they went back to the same behavior. Now they even, using their words, "challenge position" in an attempt to "exposed where someone hids".

Those aren't simple reactionary comments to me. Those aren't the words of someone that just needs a warning to properly get the memo. That's someone that seriously needs to start evaluating themselves and their behavior, that when practically everyone is telling them they're messing up, they deflect and shift blame. And we are not their therapists to keep holding on to the hope that they will listen. That they need to do themselves.

I refuse to keep giving the benefit of the doubt here. I would support a straight ban, of the absolute least a month.

I will not comment again on this. Just close this by saying that whatever decision staff comes to at this point, it is what it is, I support it.
Click to expand...
Agnaa said:
After considering it, I'm not sure about a one month ban.

Tensions started with a snide comment by That_moron2, which Vzearr responded to in kind. Vzearr then made a snide comment towards KingTempest. Kachon123 made a slightly snide comment about the thread as a whole. After which, Random-Helper323 vaguely told everyone to calm down. At this point, I don't think any comments made have been rule violations, but they have stepped up the temperature a bit, so it's understandable for Random to try to bring that back down.

After that, Vzearr made a direct and false insult against multiple users in the thread. That_moron2 responded with an image indicating they found Vzearr's post funny. Mr. Bambu warned Vzearr specifically, and people in the thread in general, over this. Bambu's warning makes sense; Vzearr's post was a rule violation and a significant escalation in that. That_moron's post was, to some degree, mocking, but not to the extent of being a rule violation; it's probably good to get them to calm down too, but their post is not the most important to tackle, there.

After which Vzearr made these largely-visible responses denying all wrongdoing, deflecting, and insulting people.

Taking all that (and his extensive history) into consideration, I'm not sure one month would be sufficient. I'd want something like 3 months, with it possibly getting reduced to 1 month on appeal. If he ultimately can't own up to his behaviour there being much worse than anyone else's, it's hard to trust him to act better when he returns; it's not really a moment where he was overcome with anger, he feels justified in this.

holy shit Agnaa arguing for a longer ban for someone being rude?!?
Click to expand...
@Planck69 @Elizhaa @DarkDragonMedeus @LordGriffin1000 @Dereck03 @Maverick_Zero_X @Just_a_Random_Butler @Qawsedf234 @Firestorm808 @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @Celestial_Pegasus @GrathOfLux @SamanPatou @Colonel_Krukov @GyroNutz

@Reiner04 @ActuallySpaceMan42 @Catzlaflame @UchihaSlayer96 @Emirp sumitpo @Nierre @Dalesean027 @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless @Vietthai96 @Imaginym @Godernet @Duedate8898 @CrimsonStarFallen @Mr._Propeller_Hat @Armorchompy @LordTracer Your input regarding this matter would be appreciated.
 
Antvasima said:
I would much prefer if Vzearr only keeps his 1 month warning ban. His offences did not seem particularly severe, and he needs my help and I don't want his mental state to deteriorate further. 🙏
Click to expand...
You can provide counsel off-site; I have his Discord usernames, if you want to communicate with him there.

But if his behaviour was due to his mental state being compromised right now, and that risks worsening over the month ban, I think it's wise to lengthen it up to three months with the option of reducing it back down if he improves before then. Hopefully three months is enough for his life to develop into a better place regardless.
KLOL506 said:
Hell, he even declared that he will not stop until he has Bambu "exposed for what he hides", which sounds like a threat to me.
Click to expand...
That's not what he said, he said:
Vzearr said:
I'll take a warning, or even a ban for this comment, but god let me be I will do everything in my power to make sure YOU bambu, are exposed for who you hid to be.
Click to expand...
Says nothing about continuing his previous behaviour. Just that he will do everything he can to expose Bambu's bad behaviour.

And I, personally, think that we must not take punitive action against users for desiring to highlight rule violations staff members have committed. That's why HR is open to contact from banned members.
Avaritia_603 said:
He doesnt accept responsibility because you guys' approach is wrong, you're trying to bring logic into a subjective matter OF COURSE hes going to deny the logic its vzaer anyone that has interacted with him on a thread should know that he doesnt back down from logical reasoning. However, when i tell him hes in the wrong he listens and agrees, why? because i take a subjective approach, like all is needed is that he is insulting people and staff, thats it, mr bambu or whoever trying to argue about it doesnt make it any better. He may seem to displace blame and make excuses but only because you guys initiate it to be in such a format, again ofc hes going to try to find holes in you guys' logic or whatever.
Click to expand...
Avaritia_603 said:
If you guys were to approach not just vzear this way when looking at these kinds of situations but all situations like this i think you guys would have far less bickering and blame shifting or whatever. I talk to him a lot and hes completely normal i just actually think its the approach that gets into his head and rubs him the wrong way. I know im not staff or anything and dont have any power to make any decisions but atleast hear me out here.
Click to expand...
I'm not really sure how to action that, but I'm willing to hear it out if you have some concrete examples.

But this thread isn't really the best place for that; could you DM me (or any other user you wish to discuss this with) instead?
 
While the interaction was pretty bad, I do agree that Vzearr should be allowed to express dislike or a belief in some bad behaviour. Without evidence it kind of seems defamatory, and I think Bambu is innocent, but we can't explicitly stop people from accusing staff of wrongdoing.

There is of course a risk that such allowance could allow people to defame others on the forum, but I think the solution is to give staff and normal users the same protection from such things.

I have had a positive experience of working with both Bambu and Vzearr, so I'd prefer it if both of them could be okay.
 
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Random-Helper323 said:
While the interaction was pretty bad, I do agree that Vzearr should be allowed to express dislike or a belief in some bad behaviour. Without evidence it kind of seems defamatory, and from my perspective Bambu looks innocent, but we can't explicitly stop people from accusing staff of wrongdoing.

There is of course a risk that such allowance could allow people to defame others on the forum, but I guess the solution is to give staff and normal users the same protection from such things.

I have had a positive experience of working with both Bambu and Vzearr, so I'd prefer it if both of them could be okay.
Click to expand...
That is what the HR is for, where you report staff wrongdoings. Doing it in public only makes things worse and leads to too much controversy and destabilization.

In any case, the staff votes seem to be more in favor of the 3 month ban with a chance to appeal it down to 1 month, but of course, we can always wait for more staff to give input.
 
KLOL506 said:
That is what the HR is for, where you report staff wrongdoings.
Click to expand...
True. If someone keeps expressing accusations without evidence there does reach a point where it becomes defamatory or harassment. As I said, I believe Bambu is innocent.

All the same, criticism should be allowed.
KLOL506 said:
In any case, the staff votes seem to be more in favor of the 3 month ban with a chance to appeal it down to 1 month, but of course, we can always wait for more staff to give input.
Click to expand...
The 3 months seems to be accepted.
 
Random-Helper323 said:
While the interaction was pretty bad, I do agree that Vzearr should be allowed to express dislike or a belief in some bad behaviour. Without evidence it kind of seems defamatory, and I think Bambu is innocent, but we can't explicitly stop people from accusing staff of wrongdoing.

There is of course a risk that such allowance could allow people to defame others on the forum, but I guess the solution is to give staff and normal users the same protection from such things.
Click to expand...
KLOL506 said:
That is what the HR is for, where you report staff wrongdoings. Doing it in public only makes things worse and leads to too much controversy and destabilization.
Click to expand...
Random-Helper323 said:
True. If someone keeps expressing accusations without evidence there does reach a point where it becomes defamatory or harassment. As I said, I believe Bambu is innocent.

All the same, criticism should be allowed.
Click to expand...
Yeah, fwiw I do think that some of the claims Vzearr made err on the side of defamation/harassment. It's just that "I will expose you!" is too vague to really be worthy of reprimanding.

And yeah, votes seem modestly in favour (something like 4-2) in favour of 3 months, so I'll go extend it.
 
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