Lookism Scaling Revision

[DivineAura44]

This thread should be pretty simple.

Daniel Park and Gun Park (not related by blood) are currently High 8-C seemingly via scaling to Gapryong Kim (his name is misspelt on the profile it seems), who performed this feat.
Problem? Literally nothing shows they should scale, especially considering Gap is arguably the strongest inverse with no clear scaling to current characters.

Now there is an argument to be made that they scale to a casual, past his prime Gapryong Kim, but I'd argue that far more characters would scale by such logic. And that logic causes a whole can of worms. Does James Lee scale? Likely. How about Jichang Kwak? I'd argue it's much better to play it safe and just remove these two from the scaling chain just to play it safe. I'm open to other ideas though.

Agree: @Viott, @Mercury009, @Dinozxd, @Pyro9278, @Kakistan, @Exoko, @Powerscalingcat (I think)

Disagree: @Vzearr, @Avaritia_603

 

[DivineAura44]

After checking, it seems every high and god tier character on the wiki has this feat, all stemming back from Daniel??? Like why tf does Mandeok Bang at all get to scale to a feat Gapryong Kim performed? I now think this should only scale to Gapryong and Shingen, the scaling past that has clearly gotten out of hand.

 

[Viott]

I agree.

 

[Mercury009]

Agreed

 

[Vzearr]

Lookism scalers when it comes to inverse scaling (they're cooked).

First of all the verses scaling is in shambles, absolutely despicable. Worse than TR in my opinion.

My lookism goons deduced that: Injured tui Gun ~ 2t James > old gap. Because 2t James or 3t james being comp to nerfed tui Gun comes from his statement when watching Gun and Daniel fight. James > old gap comes from James saying no one was ever above him, which would kinda put 2t James > mujin = prime gap, and he also said he didn't think someone as strong as Seongji could exist, so 3t James ~ 3t Seongji > old gap, Mujin, kitae ect.

Pb Daniel is fodder so that's whatever.

 

[Viott]

Lookism scalers when it comes to inverse scaling (they're cooked).

First of all the verses scaling is in shambles, absolutely despicable. Worse than TR in my opinion.

My lookism goons deduced that: Injured tui Gun ~ 2t James > old gap. Because 2t James or 3t james being comp to nerfed tui Gun comes from his statement when watching Gun and Daniel fight. James > old gap comes from James saying no one was ever above him, which would kinda put 2t James > mujin = prime gap, and he also said he didn't think someone as strong as Seongji could exist, so 3t James ~ 3t Seongji > old gap, Mujin, kitae ect.

Pb Daniel is fodder so that's whatever.

Saying that he can defeat Tui Gun doesn’t necessarily mean he actually can. We can’t know that without seeing them fight.

Also, if I remember correctly, he didn’t say that there wouldn’t be anyone as strong as James Lee Seongji. That day, he said that he was truly doomed to failure, but that it wouldn’t happen again.

 

[DivineAura44]

James saying no one was ever above him,

And you just took his word for it? Lmao.
Even if I did, Gap had retired at this point. It would be reasonable to say no one is above you if the guy who was doesn't even fight anymore.

 

[Vzearr]

Even if I did, Gap had retired at this point. It would be reasonable to say no one is above you if the guy who was doesn't even fight anymore.

My guy the feat was preformed by an retired Gap .

I'll respond later.

 

[DivineAura44]

My guy the feat was preformed by an retired Gap .

I'll respond later.

You're not understanding.
Gap, even retired Gap, may be stronger than James Lee. However James doesn't count him as above himself because the dude doesn't even fight anymore.

I'm sure Jon Jones could get back in the ring and mess up many of the top heavyweights. Not a single one is gonna count him ahead of themselves because the dude has already retired.

 

[Dinozxd]

Only Gap and Shingen should scale to the feat for now imo. We should get more info on how the fight between JL and Gap went to scale JL to Gap.

 

[Vzearr]

Gap, even retired Gap, may be stronger than James Lee. However James doesn't count him as above himself because the dude doesn't even fight anymore.

1. He’s fought and old gap, so the statement isn’t unreliable.
2. James didnt make the statement excluding retired fighters, during his Seongji fight he says no one was better than him and after his fight with Seongji, he said he never thought someone as strong as Seongji could exist. Implying Seongji is superior to Gap, and so on.

Only Gap and Shingen should scale to the feat for now imo. We should get more info on how the fight between JL and Gap went to scale JL to Gap.

You’re gonna hear from me in private I assure you.

 

[DivineAura44]

1. He’s fought and old gap, so the statement isn’t unreliable.
2. James didnt make the statement excluding retired fighters, during his Seongji fight he says no one was better than him and after his fight with Seongji, he said he never thought someone as strong as Seongji could exist. Implying Seongji is superior to Gap, and so on.

1. Unless ofc he lied. Also doesn't address the issue at heart.
2. Yeah, because Seongji is an off the radar country bumpkin with no known mentor. He's surprised that someone like that could exist and nobody knew he ever did.

Only Gap and Shingen should scale to the feat for now imo. We should get more info on how the fight between JL and Gap went to scale JL to Gap.

Facts man. It's not like I'm saying "Gap is definitively stronger than these dudes, scaling to this is impossible!" I'm just saying we currently lack the knowledge to solidly place people on this level. I'm certain that in the future we will get chapters painting a better picture of exactly which characters in the cast scale to which.

 

[Vzearr]

1. Unless ofc he lied. Also doesn't address the issue at heart.
2. Yeah, because Seongji is an off the radar country bumpkin with no known mentor. He's surprised that someone like that could exist and nobody knew he ever did.

1. No reason why James would lie for the statement he made to Seongji, and the statement he made after was an internal monologue, so he wouldn't even have anyone to lie to. Of course there is self bias but James have never been shown to overestimate himself, Infact he’s quite the opposite.
2. Yeah this just makes zero sense on your end. James never says he didn't think someone as strong as Seongji would be off the radar, his statement is inclusive of everyone he knows the strength of. And yeah Seongji did have a mentor who James has also fought sob.

Also the BOP is on you now cause you made the claim the statements unreliable.

 

[DivineAura44]

1. No reason why James would lie for the statement he made to Seongji, and the statement he made after was an internal monologue, so he wouldn't even have anyone to lie to. Of course there is self bias but James have never been shown to overestimate himself, Infact he’s quite the opposite.
2. Yeah this just makes zero sense on your end. James never says he didn't think someone as strong as Seongji would be off the radar, his statement is inclusive of everyone he knows the strength of. And yeah Seongji did have a mentor who James has also fought sob.

Also the BOP is on you now cause you made the claim the statements unreliable.

1. I have no reason to believe that James underestimates himself more than overestimates especially in this case considering the constant claims of superiority he makes over Seongji before getting completely shut down.
2. Which statement exactly are you referring to? He makes 2 statements that are basically "Damn this Seongji guy is strong," so I just wanna know if its the first or second before we continue.

Burden is not on me. I'm not saying that the statements are 100% certifiably not reliable. If that's the case, I'd be making a negative claim, and burden would fall on me. I'm taking a neutral stance, which is that we have no reason to believe the statements are reliable. Because your argument and the currently applied stats depend on these statements being true, the burden actually does fall on you I fear. I can provide a quick analogy to make this more clear if you need.

 

[DivineAura44]

Starting a vote tally but I'm new to this so if I make a mistake, just correct me.

 

[Dinozxd]

You’re gonna hear from me in private I assure you.

Blud is NOT threatning me

 

[Pyro9278]

1. He’s fought and old gap, so the statement isn’t unreliable.
2. James didnt make the statement excluding retired fighters, during his Seongji fight he says no one was better than him and after his fight with Seongji, he said he never thought someone as strong as Seongji could exist. Implying Seongji is superior to Gap, and so on.

We don't know how Gap's death unfolded to be sure that James Lee and Gap had a fair fight. Let's remember that there were several people involved, and even people like Jinyoung seem to have been present, knowing what Gitae did to Gap, which could have affected the picture as to whether it was a conventional fight or not.

 

[Pyro9278]

Starting a vote tally but I'm new to this so if I make a mistake, just correct me.

For now, the votes you have are useless; they're merely "moral support." The real votes you need are from the staff. Anyway, I think that eliminating a direct ladder with Gapryong Kim for now is better than having to deal with a confusing ladder full of retroactive connections.

 

[DivineAura44]

For now, the votes you have are useless; they're merely "moral support." The real votes you need are from the staff. Anyway, I think that eliminating a direct ladder with Gapryong Kim for now is better than having to deal with a confusing ladder full of retroactive connections.

I'm aware. I'm not gonna get staff to vote on this until the counter-arguments are fully fleshed out.

It'd be unfair to Vzearr if I just summoned staff to vote on this thread before they've had a chance to respond.


Is your comment an agreement BTW? I think it is but I wanna be sure before I tally you.

 

[Pyro9278]

I'm aware. I'm not gonna add get staff to vote on this until the counter-arguments are fully fleshed out.

It'd be unfair to Vzearr if I just summoned staff to vote on this thread before they've had a chance to respond.

That makes perfect sense.

Is your comment an agreement BTW? I think it is but I wanna be sure before I tally you.

Count me in favor. And I think I can corroborate that a bit with the arguments. I was previously in the thread where a large part of the verse was being scaled to High 8-C and the following was commented on:

1.Daniel Park UI
Daniel Park's UI Ability, allows him to adjust his power level to match his opponent. The stronger the opponent, the stronger he becomes; the weaker the opponent, the weaker he gets

During the fight between him and Jinyoung Park, he adjusted his power level to match Jinyoung Park. This made Jinyoung Park think that he wanted to see a fight between Daniel Park’s UI and Gapryong Kim. From this statement, it can be interpreted that Daniel Park’s UI at that time was at a level close to Gapryong Kim in his prime, because if they were not at similar levels, Jinyoung Park wouldn’t have thought that way

Therefore, Daniel Park's UI can be upgraded to At least High 8-C ( He is at the same or a comparable level to Gapryong Kim )

2.Gun Park
One of the strongest characters in the series, he can defeat all of Gen 2. In his Uncontrolled Ultra Instinct mode, his raw power surpasses that of Daniel Park’s UI, showing that even Daniel Park’s ability to scale cannot match Gun Park in Uncontrolled Ultra Instinct mode. Furthermore, Gun Park can defeat Daniel Park’s UI by exploiting his weaknesses

Therefore, he can be upgraded to
At least High 8-C with Uncontrolled Ultra Instinct ( fought on par with Daniel Park UI )

Jinyoung's statement at the time was accepted as valid, estimating that Daniel UI was at a level close to Gapryong at his peak. However, this only stems from the fact that Daniel was able to keep up with and even surpass Jinyoung's copycat. While Jinyoung is someone who is aware of Gapryong Kim's power level, we cannot say that Jinyoung was replicating 100% of his power. Not even someone like Jin Lang was able to approach his power, and this is confirmed even when he met him outside of his prime.

 

[CatLover313]

Can we add the Lookism/Lookism PTJ verse tag? I didn’t realize this thread was a thing until I looked at the new posts page

 

[DivineAura44]

Can we add the Lookism/Lookism PTJ verse tag? I didn’t realize this thread was a thing until I looked at the new posts page

Gonna be honest, I completely forgot to do that. Don't even know if it's possible now that the thread was already made.

 

[Kakistan]

Okay, I have my own stance on this. I think the feat should be reserved for the verifiable top tiers, while most of the Gen 2 and powercreeped Kings are left out.

Well, I wrote a few paragraphs explaining why and then realised I fell into the cycle of scaling that this thread exists for. As disappointing as it would be for characters who reasonably scale to a holding back, retired, old and out of shape Gapryong (like Gitae, James, Paecheon, Mujin and Shingen) to go down, it does solve an annoying problem. So I agree.

 

[Pyro9278]

Gonna be honest, I completely forgot to do that. Don't even know if it's posisble now that the thread was already made.

If it's possible, you just need to edit it.

 

[DivineAura44]

Okay, I have my own stance on this. I think the feat should be reserved for the verifiable top tiers, while most of the Gen 2 and powercreeped Kings are left out.

Well, I wrote a few paragraphs explaining why and then realised I fell into the cycle of scaling that this thread exists for. As disappointing as it would be for characters who reasonably scale to a holding back, retired, old and out of shape Gapryong (like Gitae, James, Paecheon, Mujin and Shingen) to go down, it does solve an annoying problem. So I agree.

You get it. Logically every character you named should easily scale. But then you think "well that guy scales to that guy scales to that guy so..." and all of a sudden the dogs from the God Dog arc scale to this feat because "Gap was holding back anyway."

 

[DivineAura44]

If it's possible, you just need to edit it.

I can edit the thread but only the title.

 

[Mercury009]

Sorry, just saw the counter arguments required an additional response from people who already agreed at the beginning. In my opinion, most of the Possibly/Likely chainscaling of doom done to most Lookism character does not really make sense until we see how actual people fared against a retired Gap.

We do not know the full details of Gap's last fight and while we COULD assume the likes of Gitae and James could be scaled to his level but dont even know if the fight was a fair one at all. The only ones I personally see scaling from that feat are Gap and Shingen, until additional feats are displayed in the series of course

 

[Pyro9278]

I can edit the thread but only the title.

You can usually just write in the thread tags, but if it doesn't let you, that's fine.

By the way, I'm for it, not against it.

 

[DivineAura44]

You can usually just write in the thread tags, but if it doesn't let you, that's fine.

By the way, I'm for it, not against it.

Yeah I know, I put you and @Kakistan in disagree by accident.



Anyways in 24 hours from now if no further counterarguments are posted, I'll start calling staff.

 

[Vzearr]

1. I have no reason to believe that James underestimates himself more than overestimates especially in this case considering the constant claims of superiority he makes over Seongji before getting completely shut down.

Again, there is no reason to lie, specifically on the second statement.

2. Which statement exactly are you referring to? He makes 2 statements that are basically "Damn this Seongji guy is strong," so I just wanna know if its the first or second before we continue.

We're using 2 statements, the first being the one he made during his fight with Seongji that no one was ever better than him and the second statement being the one he made after his fight with Seongji where he says he never thought someone as strong as him could exist.

Burden is not on me. I'm not saying that the statements are 100% certifiably not reliable. If that's the case, I'd be making a negative claim, and burden would fall on me. I'm taking a neutral stance, which is that we have no reason to believe the statements are reliable. Because your argument and the currently applied stats depend on these statements being true, the burden actually does fall on you I fear. I can provide a quick analogy to make this more clear if you need.

I cbf arguing about burdens at 10am in the morning. I'll come back to this.

 

[DivineAura44]

Again, there is no reason to lie, specifically on the second statement.

Overconfidence. The whole fight he's been hyping himself up about how he's the prodigy of all prodigies. That's your reason. "I've never seen someone anyone who was better than me" was just him bragging. And now that this still doesn't address the issue that he just might not be counting Gapryong. It's not insane in this case because the statement seems to be about the potential to unlock masteries. An old man like Gap isn't gonna be included in a statement about potential.

We're using 2 statements, the first being the one he made during his fight with Seongji that no one was ever better than him and the second statement being the one he made after his fight with Seongji where he says he never thought someone as strong as him could exist.

You misunderstood. I understand where the first statement comes from. I'm asking where is the "I never thought someone as strong as him could exist" statement come from. Because multiple statements to that nature are made so I am just trying to make sure I know which one specifically.

 

[Pyro9278]

We're using 2 statements, the first being the one he made during his fight with Seongji that no one was ever better than him and the second statement being the one he made after his fight with Seongji where he says he never thought someone as strong as him could exist.

Currently, this argument only applies to people like him and Seongji, meaning the scenario they're in. It doesn't make sense to extend that to the fight against Gapryong when the narrative doesn't indicate or show anything about what happened there. We don't know if there was a fight, a brawl, or even if other people were involved.

 

[DivineAura44]

Ts never going through, is it?

 

[CatLover313]

Ts never going through, is it?

Only if you believe and persist

 

[DivineAura44]

Only if you believe and persist

I'm trying man, I'm trying.

 

[DivineAura44]

bump (please someone save me from small verse revision hell)

 

[DivineAura44]

.pmuB

 

[Avaritia_603]

Hard disagree

 

[Reiner04]

(not related by blood)

Post scan.

 

[DivineAura44]

Hard disagree

Based on the reasoning Vzearr provided I presume?

Post scan.

Ion even really read this shi fr, they might be.