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Raichu again (Normal Raichu vs XY Series Pikachu) (0-7-0) (CONCLUDED)

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Now for my first conventional battle.

Another "borderline against self" battle for start - in leu of "Normal Raichu vs Alolan Raichu" fight. This time, between normal Raichu and Ash's Pikachu.

Raichu is normal Raichu. It is trained (not wild), but it's trainer is not around. Raichu has all Optional Equipment.

Ash's Pikachu is XY Series self. Ash himself isn't around. Groudon is banned. Ash's Pikachu has all Optional Equipment except Groudon and Blue Orb.

Fight takes place in Pallet Town.

Game rules are not in play. Raichu can waive the rules just as much as Ash's Pikachu can.

Otherwise SBA.

[https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Pikachu Raichu's Profile]
[https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Pikachu_(Anime) Ash's Pikachu's Profile]

Raichu: 0 ()
Ash's Pikachu: 7 (Arkansalter2, User_A_98732165489, Ztesrxgdfjcvgkbh, Qurbonboev, Emerald, MannyQ361, TegamiBachi25)
Inconclusive: 0 ()
 
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Pikachu should win simply because he can absorb all of Raichu's attacks, which is basically electric lol.
Pikachu, low diff. Might be a stomp???
 
Pikachu should win simply because he can absorb all of Raichu's attacks, which is basically electric lol.
Pikachu, low diff. Might be a stomp???
But Raichu can absorb electric attacks either. And they both know that electric attacks won't work (Ash's Pikachu due to experience, Raichu due to remembering the times he was a Pikachu himself).

At which point fight fight turns into physical battering; Pikachu and Raichu trying to bonk each-other with tails.
 
But Raichu can absorb electric attacks either. And they both know that electric attacks won't work (Ash's Pikachu due to experience, Raichu due to remembering the times he was a Pikachu himself).
Good to know.
At which point fight fight turns into physical battering; Pikachu and Raichu trying to bonk each-other with tails.
Pikachu has the AP and LS advantage anyways. Still going for him.
 
But Raichu can absorb electric attacks either. And they both know that electric attacks won't work (Ash's Pikachu due to experience, Raichu due to remembering the times he was a Pikachu himself).
Good to know.
At which point fight fight turns into physical battering; Pikachu and Raichu trying to bonk each-other with tails.
Pikachu has the AP and LS advantage anyways. Still going for him.
Counted

Would also say that Pikachu has experience advantage - since Ash's Pikachu specifically has rivalry with Raichu as whole species, since Raichu usually act like jerks when Ash's Pikachu is around, despite Raichu being normal with normal Pikachu. Ash's Pikachu had already encountered such situations dozens if not hundreds of times - while this exact Raichu sees Ash's Pikachu the first, or maybe second or third, time in his life.
 
More in-depth analysis of what one has which other doesn't:

Raichu has:
  • Very slight size, reach and weight advantage
  • Mind Manipulation
  • Social Influencing of other type
  • Minor Luck Manipulation
  • Minor Weather Manipulation
  • Afterimage Creation
  • Minor Berserk Mode
  • Minor Light Manipulation

Ash's Pikachu has:
  • AP advantage
  • LS advantage
  • Social Influencing of other type
  • Stronger Electricity Manipulation
  • Metal Manipulation
  • Danmaku
  • Limited Thread Manipulation (Via Electroweb)
  • Barrier Creation (via Electroweb)

AP advantage is exactly how big? And AP advantage is only in electric powers or also in physical power?

Well, Ash's Pikachu has habit of waiving the rules and ignoring Immunities and Abilities. However as stated in assumptions, "Raichu can waive the rules just as much as Ash's Pikachu can" - so Raichu could counter it by waiving the rules himself. As such, their munchkin-ness nullifies each-other.

I would also point out that 'chus aren't absolutely immune to electricity. There were times where Ash's Pikachu was overloaded with electricity by Team Rocket and got sick; Raichu needs to drain excessive electricity into the ground, becoming stressed if they can't. And since they're fighting, the best place to drain energy into is the opponent - by launching electric attack at him - causing him to get overfilled and launch attack back; which results in increasingly more powerful discharges being sent to each-other, until someone "short-circuits". Having extra charge makes electric Pokemon stronger and faster, but too much makes it weaker than normal; i don't remember what exactly happens when Electric-type "short-circuits", but that may result in statistics decrease, being unable to use electric attacks, or incapacitation.

As such, the second possible strategy is for Pikachu and Raichu to essentially force-feed each-other with electricity until someone can't hold it anymore and incaps. The first is, again, bonking each-other with tails. Since Pikachu has higher AP, indicating stronger discharges, he can hold more than Raichu before "shorting out" - that is, if Pikachu and Raichu just bear-hug each-other and discharge, Raichu will incap first. If they bonk, then Pikachu can hit harder and shove/push Raichu around, and i don't think that extra length of Raichu's tail can fully compensate it.

Since Pikachu can hold more electricity while Raichu has slightly larger size and reach, the bonking wincon is slightly better for Raichu while overcharging wincon is slightly better for Pikachu. But both wincons are possible for either 'chu.

And also, extra LS means that Pikachu can get and maintain grapple at Raichu - in which case, unless Pikachu lets him go, Raichu's only options are weak attacks with limbs (weaker and shorter than tail) or discharging into Pikachu. The best option for Pikachu is to grab Raichu's tail - as that would prevent Raichu from discharging into ground, prevent Raichu from using his tail to bonk and allow Pikachu to nearly constantly be directly behind Raichu, where he's very difficult to reach. And said Raichu's tail is often at Pikachu's arms reach, since it's the very body part Raichu tries to bonk him with. The fact that Raichu's tail is on high voltage is mostly irrelevant for Pikachu, since his electricity capacity is higher.

So... If Pikachu and Raichu attack each-other with electrical attacks, they keep circling electricity back-and-forth until Raichu "short-circuits" and incaps, since Raichu can hold less electricity. If Pikachu and Raichu attack each-other physically, then fight would result in Pikachu swinging Raichu around by his own tail like flail and hit things with Raichu until Raichu faints, since Raichu has not enough LS to break free - and even barring that, Pikachu just hits harder.

So, i vote Pikachu. And count it.
 
Analysis of what one has which other doesn't, longer than previous one, focusing on things other than raw power:

Raichu has:
  • Very slight size, reach and weight advantage (0.4 m 6 kg Pikachu, 0.8 m 30 kg Raichu, Raichu tail is longer in absolute lenght and in proportion to body height)
  • Mind Manipulation (Sweet Kiss has the user kiss the foe with a sweet, angelic cuteness that causes confusion))
  • Social Influencing of other type (Tail Whip has the user wags its tail cutely, making opposing Pokémon less wary and lowering their Defense stats. Charm charms the target into complacency, sharply reducing its Attack power. Play Nice causes the user and the target to become friends and the target loses its will to fight, This lowers the target's Attack stat. Disarming Voice lets out a charming cry dealing emotional damage to opposing Pokémon. Encore compels the target to keep using only the move it last used for up to 6 turns)
  • Minor Luck Manipulation (Lucky Chant prevents opposing Pokémon from landing critical hits for five turns)
  • Minor Weather Manipulation (When several Pikachu gather, their electricity could build and cause lightning storms)
  • Afterimage Creation
  • Minor Berserk Mode (When its electricity builds its muscles are stimulated and it becomes more aggressive than usual)
  • Minor Light Manipulation (Raichu slightly glows in the dark)

Ash's Pikachu has:
  • AP advantage
  • LS advantage
  • Social Influencing of other type (Is able to scare Paras and demotivate it, making Pikachu win without landing a single move even tho Paras actually capable of tanking it with using the move "Endure")
  • Stronger Electricity Manipulation (Was able to hurt Geodude, which has Resistance to Electricity Manipulation)
  • Metal Manipulation
  • Danmaku
  • Limited Thread Manipulation (Via Electroweb)
  • Barrier Creation (via Electroweb)
  • More techniques, more experience in waiving the rules
Well, my previous analysis didn't cover the abilities. The only really non-major abilities of Raichu which Pikachu doesn't have are slight size advantage, minor berserk mode. Social-based are not strong enough to stop hostility outright, so those are just statistics-decreasing abilities; Sweet Kiss matters even less, as it would put Raichu into grappling range. Everything else is too minor to matter.

Rules waiving (e.g. ignoring Resistance to Electricity Manipulation) is countered by rules-waiving from opponent, since "Raichu can waive the rules just as much as Ash's Pikachu can". But even then, Pikachu has Metal Manipulation, Danmaku, Limited Thread Manipulation (Via Electroweb), Barrier Creation (via Electroweb). However, since both Pikachu and Raichu don't play by game rules ("Game rules are not in play"), nothing stops Raichu from making made-up moves. Due to making made-up moves or waiving the rules in leu of "but nothing in my profile states that i can't do this!", Pikachu and Raichu could just copy or re-engineer each-other's techniques, essentially nullifying the hax difference.

Lerger size is actually double-edged sword; it does make it easier to grapple or push, but it also makes character a bigger target. Abusing size difference goes either way; larger character can push or crush smaller, but smaller can cling onto larger character or crouch to evade attacks. Not that the difference in size actually matters in Pokemon world whatsoever, especially if it's not a whole category different.

This would end up being a very close fight, if not for Raichu's Unknown LS - which turns it into "if Pikachu grapples Raichu, fight is over" nonsense because we don't know how many orders of magnitude Raichu is weaker. Could we quickly compare Raichu (and other evolutions) to some other Pokemon to get LS?
 
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Didnt Pikachu dealt with Raichus many times before? This is an easy w for Pikachu tbh
 
It's 13:17 by VsBattle server clock and Grace already, and last vote was on 05:37 yesterday. I think time is up, battle is Concluded. Correct?
 
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