Graham (MGK) vs Dracula (Castlevania)

[ThienDe01]

I reread the comments and found that Dracula's plot haxing ability ensures he always wins and his opponents face terrible consequences; it's like altering the story to impose an unfavorable future/event on the opponent. This is similar to Naphta's ability to limit his opponents' future, or Eques's ability to impose destiny/events on the world, and Anos is not afraid of these things.

Spoiler

With her abilities from the Future Order, Naphta has the power to limit the future, as she did when she caused Anos to be stabbed by the spear even though Anos had managed to grab it.

Spoiler: Volume 6 Chap 18

With both eyes closed, Naphta filled her crystal ball with magic. “Sinner who stands before the Goddess of the Future, you will now be judged by Kandaquizorte, the Future World Crystal.”

The ball floated out of Naphta’s hands and distorted in shape, transforming into a spear.

“Your future has been decided. You have been sentenced to impalement,” she pronounced like a judge.

“Interesting. Just try it.”

The Goddess of the Future held her hands out before her. Divine magic flowed into the surrounding area, shaking the cathedral. The crystal spear turned towards me and shot forward faster than the eye could see. I turned my head to avoid it, but the spear turned at the same time, following my face.

“Hmm. So read the future?”

The spear came to a stop right before my nose. I had grabbed the shaft. “I can restrict the future. You will be unable to grasp the spear.”

The moment the Goddess of the Future said that, the crystal spear slipped from my hand. I immediately dived aside, but the Future World Crystal surpassed my speed by a fraction and bore into my stomach.

“Restrict, huh? I see. I suppose there could be a one-in-a-billion chance of me failing to grasp the spear. You used the Future World Crystal’s power to restrict the future and make that happen.”

“Kandaquizorte is the future itself. There is no way for you to touch the future.”

“Oh?”

I drew a layered magic circle and passed my right hand through it. With my fingertips stained bluish-white with Ygg Neas, I gave it another try, but they still failed to grasp the crystal shaft.

“It seems it won’t be so easy to grasp.”

The order of Kandaquizorte meant there was no way to touch it, and its power to restrict futures allowed it to slip past my hand.

“The spear can no longer be withdrawn,” Naphta said, facing me with her eyes still closed. “You have two options: surrender or let your source be pierced by the spear. The choice is yours.”

Naphta used her abilities to impose Anos on a future where Anos could never defeat her. But in the end, she had to declare that Anos could not lose in any future.

Spoiler: Volume 6 Chap 18

“A world created by Kandaquizorte, huh? So this is a god’s domain.” “I, Naphta, swear to you that this world has been restricted to produce

the worst possible result for you in every way. Your victory is not possible in this world.”

“Interesting,” I said, staring at her calmly. “Come at me then, future.

Let’s see what you can do.”
[...]
Naphta, who was holding the Future World Crystal in her hands, had both eyes open. As the god that governed the order of the future, she couldn’t allow the world’s possibilities to be closed off. In order to restrict Egil Grone Angdroa, she had gazed at all the futures she could.

“In other words, this match is over.”

Naphta nodded quietly. Cracks ran across her body. “I, Naphta, declare defeat. No matter how much the future is restricted, zero cannot become one. There is no world in which you can be defeated.”

Cracks ran along the Goddess of the Future’s body as she began to break down. No matter how much she restricted the world, the only future in store for one facing me was destruction. That future was fast approaching Naphta.

The fate/events of the world were decided by Eques—that it would be destroyed, and no matter how things changed, the outcome, predetermined by the gears, could not be altered. But Anos's Magic Eyes of Mayhem destroyed the logic behind that fate/event, rendering it ineffective.

Spoiler: Volume 10 Chap 56

“Behold, contaminant of the world. The Cogs of Fate are already turning. No one can escape this fate. Beltexfenblem will force destiny upon you.”

The Cogs of Fate spread brown light through the area.

“This is your defeat.”

Bronze cogs implanted themselves across every surface of the three-sided world. Cogs of Fate turned in the land and skies, ice towns and forests, and across entire mountains.

“Make a single move and the Demon King Garden will shatter along with the order of creation. That is the fate Beltexfenblem has just decided. A destiny that cannot be fled or overturned, no matter what.”

An abnormal order had surrounded me. There was an eerie sound as the Cogs of Fate turned. Equis raised their arms high into the air.

“Verd Raze Fenblem.”

Bronze cogs creaked loudly, forcibly trying to distort the order of the three-sided world Misha had created.

“Be crushed by the Cogs of Fate, contaminant of the world.”

A cog magic circle was drawn, which connected with the bronze wheel and started to turn. The wheel expanded to gargantuan proportions, crushing the ground below it.

“Boros Hethero Avis.”

The bronze wheel shattered the ice with an eerie sound as it slowly made its way to me. With each rotation of the wheel brown sparks flew, dying the Demon King Garden a deep dreadful bronze. When the divine wheel made impact with my body it immediately tried to grind into my flesh, but I grabbed it with both hands.

“Now,” Equis declared, so sure of their victory, “it’s time for this transient world to perish under the Cogs of Fate.”

I slammed the Boros Hethero Avis down to the ground and stomped on it. The resulting sound shook the entire land—but the Demon King Garden was untouched.

“Wha...”

I took a step towards the flabbergasted Equis.

“How?” Equis muttered dumbly. “How are you walking...with Verd Raze Fenblem in effect?”

“It turns out that in the Demon King Garden, I can open these Magic Eyes a little.”

I walked straight towards them. My left Eye was dyed mauve with a cross of darkness deep within its abyss—it was one of the Magic Eyes of Mayhem. I had used it to destroy the order of Verd Raze Fenblem.

“Everything before these Eyes will perish. Be it order, reason, or you, Equis.”

“No such order should exist,” they said with dumbfounded confusion. “There are no Magic Eyes you can use that can affect destiny. Verd Raze Fenblem should have activated before that and destroyed the Demon King Garden!”

“You’re not getting it. I’m saying I destroyed the reason of Verd Raze Fenblem itself.”

“That’s impossible. Fate has already been determined. It was only a matter of it happening sooner or later. Even if time could be rewound to before the creation of the Demon King’s Garden, the Cogs of Fate would have still destroyed it.”

“Bwa ha ha. Instead of blindly believing in order, why don’t you believe in what just happened before you? Aren’t the holes in those cogs Divine Eyes? Use them to look closer into the abyss.”

I came to a stop before them. “You decided fate, and I destroyed reason. These two powers contradict each other. Thus, it’s my win.”

I lifted my foot and stomped on the ground. The bronze cogs buried in the surface all shattered at once.

“After all, contradiction and chaos are my forte.”

Between the Magic Eyes of Mayhem and a contradictory logic for its destruction, I was the one with an overwhelming advantage. The reasoning was simple: Against the power of a single fated event, the Magic Eyes of Mayhem merely had to prevent it from happening. The contradiction of preventing a predetermined incident then fueled the power of the Magic Eyes.

I took another step forward as a cog of time rotated before Equis.

“Boros Hethero—”

Equis tried to cast destruction magic at point-blank range, but my Vebzud fingertips bored into their abdomen first.

“G-Gieeeeee!” they screeched.

“Did you really think that an inflexible cog that jams with one simple contradiction could decide my fate for me?”

As these excerpts demonstrate, no matter how the world unfolds, manipulated by metaphysical aspects and constrained by future limitations, Anos is always destined to lose. Yet, Anos himself triumphs despite any attempts by his opponents to interfere with reality.

Furthermore, Anos possesses the NEP2 aspect of space-time and BDE1, rendering any attempts to manipulate reality in some way almost futile.

 

[Fixxed]

Is Source such a Fundamental Aspect of reality that is even independent of Narrative? Could you provide explanations or scans of it being independent of the Narrative itself.

By default... every metaphysical aspect cannot harm each other without evidence they can. Plot are not superior aspect than concept. Soo... it is you that must provide evidence that plot can affect concept and any other defense ability

 

[Robo432343]

You should have just used Graham.

Ok changed it to graham

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Ok, so, Dracula cant interact with Graham, and Dracula doesnt resist causality/chaos/concept manip, so Graham wings his scythe once and oneshots.

 

[Vietthai96]

Bro asked Robo to change to Graham just to say Graham oneshot

 

[Huesito88]

Bro asked Robo to change to Graham just to say Graham oneshot

It's not our fault Robo is so easily tricked

 

[Tanin_iver]

Ok changed it to graham

Graham maybe as non-existent as he wants, he still exists in the plot, so it's the same as before as Maou. Geeta passively plot haxxed..

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Bro asked Robo to change to Graham just to say Graham oneshot

He is doing it for the top strongest 4-D list, so yeah.

Graham maybe as non-existent as he wants, he still exists in the plot, so it's the same as before as Maou. Geeta passively plot haxxed..

And then? Use plothax to make him lose? But to make him lose how exactly? If no other power or action from Dracula can interact with him?

Cant influence his mind, cant influence his soul, cant influence his concept, cant influence his body nor his movements, and nothing thrown at him would have any effect, nor can he move Graham to another place. Heck, cant even stop him in place with anything.

The scans used to denote Dracula's plothax dont even show any actual applications of the power. No plot EE, no plot BFR, no plot transmutation, no plot body puppetry, nothing. It's just the generic fatehax kind of plothax, if anything. But as one should know with matches involving fatehax, it's useless if there isnt a situation you can create with the fatehax to make you win. Especially when you cant even control the opponent's body with it, which is this case.

"He just creates an event on his favor without interacting with Graham directly."

So what event would put Dracula at an advantage here? Even conveniently manifesting a 2-C explosion on the spot wouldn't do anything. It just goes back to the issue where Dracula has nothing on his arsenal for the (very vague) plothax to leverage a win for him.

Plus, people have yet to prove if Dracula even starts with that ability to begin with, since nothing on the profile says it's passive (not that it matters much given the issue above, but still).

 

[Jalias93000]

Graham maybe as non-existent as he wants, he still exists in the plot, so it's the same as before as Maou. Geeta passively plot haxxed..

It is always necessary to prove that his manipulation of the plot works on aspects of his non-existence

 

[ThienDe01]

So after Graham wins this fight, we'll see a scenario where "Graham is stronger than Anos" (on the list).

 

[Robo432343]

So graham stomps

 

[Robo432343]

So after Graham wins this fight, we'll see a scenario where "Graham is stronger than Anos" (on the list).

No
Anos and Graham share a spot

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Anos is a fraud

 

[Huesito88]

Anos is a fraud

His name is Angus Voldigoat

 

[Tanin_iver]

He is doing it for the top strongest 4-D list, so yeah.

And then? Use plothax to make him lose? But to make him lose how exactly? If no other power or action from Dracula can interact with him?

Cant influence his mind, cant influence his soul, cant influence his concept, cant influence his body nor his movements, and nothing thrown at him would have any effect, nor can he move Graham to another place. Heck, cant even stop him in place with anything.

The scans used to denote Dracula's plothax dont even show any actual applications of the power. No plot EE, no plot BFR, no plot transmutation, no plot body puppetry, nothing. It's just the generic fatehax kind of plothax, if anything. But as one should know with matches involving fatehax, it's useless if there isnt a situation you can create with the fatehax to make you win. Especially when you cant even control the opponent's body with it, which is this case.

"He just creates an event on his favor without interacting with Graham directly."

So what event would put Dracula at an advantage here? Even conveniently manifesting a 2-C explosion on the spot wouldn't do anything. It just goes back to the issue where Dracula has nothing on his arsenal for the (very vague) plothax to leverage a win for him.

Plus, people have yet to prove if Dracula even starts with that ability to begin with, since nothing on the profile says it's passive (not that it matters much given the issue above, but still).

Anos's dad repossess Graham.
Gives Anos a daddy hug.
Good ending.
Both wins.
Also predicted that people would use Graham in my previous post

 

[Enter_Bluey]

He is doing it for the top strongest 4-D list, so yeah.

And then? Use plothax to make him lose? But to make him lose how exactly? If no other power or action from Dracula can interact with him?

Cant influence his mind, cant influence his soul, cant influence his concept, cant influence his body nor his movements, and nothing thrown at him would have any effect, nor can he move Graham to another place. Heck, cant even stop him in place with anything.

The scans used to denote Dracula's plothax dont even show any actual applications of the power. No plot EE, no plot BFR, no plot transmutation, no plot body puppetry, nothing. It's just the generic fatehax kind of plothax, if anything. But as one should know with matches involving fatehax, it's useless if there isnt a situation you can create with the fatehax to make you win. Especially when you cant even control the opponent's body with it, which is this case.

"He just creates an event on his favor without interacting with Graham directly."

So what event would put Dracula at an advantage here? Even conveniently manifesting a 2-C explosion on the spot wouldn't do anything. It just goes back to the issue where Dracula has nothing on his arsenal for the (very vague) plothax to leverage a win for him.

Plus, people have yet to prove if Dracula even starts with that ability to begin with, since nothing on the profile says it's passive (not that it matters much given the issue above, but still).

Plot > concept keep rage

 

[Embers_of_Twilight]

Voting for Anos, cuz he exists in my heart.
My heart has r>f over Dracula, so GG

 

[ThienDe01]

When will we be able to end this battle?

 

[ROZAN-U]

So after Graham wins this fight, we'll see a scenario where "Graham is stronger than Anos" (on the list).

That is true, so not a problem

 

[ThienDe01]

bump

 

[Saucy_Jackistan24]

bump

Already has been changed, Mgk is top 4 now

Strongest 4-D Characters on the Wiki

Inspired by this thread, but now with 4-D characters. If you are wondering how this is different than the non-smurf list, check the second rule below. Rules: Anything above 4-D isn't allowed. As long as the character has a 4-D hax/ability/stat/weapon, etc listed on the profile, they can be...

vsbattles.com

 

[ThienDe01]

Oh, I think the admin should lock this.