Yet another Bleach additions Crt Staff needed

[ItsMeat]

Spoiler: SAFWY section

Roca Paramia's ability she gained from Szayel's experiments is to freely share information with everything her threads connected with. Similarly, she also passively absorbs information. Her released form's special ability allows her to replicate everything she's gathered information about. For example, she's able to fully replicate Luppi's Trepadora.

Now:

She can't reproduce Aizen's powers without the Hogyōku and she cannot reproduce the Hōgyoku or Respira properly.

Also, in Bleach, using an ability without being its rightful owner has severe consequences on your body as well, especially if it is a really powerful one.

Proposals:

High tier souls get (Unconventional) Power Mimicry Resistance

Baraggan gets Limited Information Analysis Resistance & Limited Power Mimicry Resistance - only applies to his Respira.

Aizen gets Unconventional Power Mimicry Resistance(cannot reproduce his powers without the Hōgyoku) and Hōgyoku gets Information Analysis Resistance & (Limited) Power Mimicry Resistance

Agree(Without the ratings in the brackets): @AyOgUyS @Apotheosis69 @Saqphire @Notlaziz @Cipher72 @SomebodyData @SacredDao @Reiner04 @Random-Helper323


Agree(With the ratings in the brackets): @AyOgUyS @Apotheosis69 @Saqphire @Notlaziz @Cipher72 @SomebodyData @SacredDao @Reiner04 @Random-Helper323


Disagree:

Spoiler: Gremmy

This one is much shorter, Gremmy should get Fate Manipulation via Subjective Reality as he is effectively the one imagining the future of his creations.

Agree: (at least a possibly) @Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye

Neutral: @SacredDao

Disagree: @DavidTPPM @Apotheosis69 @AyOgUyS @Ghostimuscrime @Saqphire
@Random-Helper323 @Cipher72 @SomebodyData
@Reiner04

Spoiler: Updated Gremmy proposal

Resistance to Memory Erasure (Gremmy could remember and recognise Guanael even after the latter repeatedly used the third stage of Vanishing Point which erases him from people’s memories.)

Agree: @SacredDao

Disagree: @Random-Helper323

Neutral: @Cipher72 @SomebodyData @Reiner04 (all 3 of them lean towards disagree)

Agree&disagree counts are directly under their respective section(safwy / gremmy), for convenience

 

[AyOgUyS]

seems fine, I agree

 

[ItsMeat]

seems fine, I agree

With everything, right?

 

[DavidTPPM]

I haven't read the SAFWY part yet but I disagree with the Gremmy part.
For one I don't see that granting fate manipulation. I have no idea what it would grant but I don't see any reasoning for fate manip.
Second of all, I'm 99% sure that's just a metaphorical sentence. He's about to kill someone with his imagination so he says he can't imagine their future.

It's like Sasuke saying he'll use his hatred to turn fantasy into reality. It doesn't mean that's literally what's happening but rather metaphorically.

 

[Apotheosis69]

I am fine with the SAFWY additions.

But completely disagree with Gremmy's Fate hax, as I agree with what David said is Completely Metaphorical.

 

[AyOgUyS]

With everything, right?

except fate hax as more knowledgeable members have disagreed on that

 

[ItsMeat]

I haven't read the SAFWY part yet

Ok, tell me when you do so.

I have no idea what it would grant but I don't see any reasoning for fate manip.

No, he quite literally is able to control the fate of his creations.

Second of all, I'm 99% sure that's just a metaphorical sentence. He's about to kill someone with his imagination so he says he can't imagine their future.

He's actually on his way to erase Guanael, again, erase, by unimagining him, as guanael used the 3rd form of the vanishing point, erasing himself from others' minds. The fact his inability to imagine guanael's future anymore is being blamed on guanael's own ability is a very important part of the context which you ignored. Thus, gremmy says he is no longer able to imagine a future for him, meaning he was able to do so before. And we know for a fact, that when gremmy talks about imagination(especially his), he really means it. Also, in the manga he directly says "I can't imagine your future anymore" which is even more straightforward than the phrasing in the anime and it definetely shows he was able to do that

It's like Sasuke saying he'll use his hatred to turn fantasy into reality. It doesn't mean that's literally what's happening but rather metaphorically.https://imgur.com/a/7XjbVIy

False equivalence, Gremmy's power literally does turn whatever he imagines into reality, lol.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Ok, tell me when you do so.

No, he quite literally is able to control the fate of his creations.

No he's not.

He's actually on his way to erase Guanael, again, erase, by unimagining him,

I actually HEAVILY disagree with that as well. He literally just blows him up. He doesn't erase anything or anyone he straight up blows him up into smithereens.

But that's not the topic of this CRT.

The fact his inability to imagine guanael's future anymore is being blamed on guanael's own ability is a very important part of the context which you ignored. Thus, gremmy says he is no longer able to imagine a future for him, meaning he was able to do so before

Again this all relies on taking the statement literally. And I'm saying it's just clearly not literal.

This is an extremely common type of figure of speech. It's like how Ichigo saying he can't imagine Chad losing isn't because he's literally incapable of doing so, rather it's just a figure of speech.

And we know for a fact, that when gremmy talks about imagination(especially his), he really means it.

Scan doesn't work.

Also, in the manga he directly says "I can't imagine your future anymore" which is even more straightforward than the phrasing in the anime and it definetely shows he was able to do that

He also literally says "I don't know who you are".
How is Gremmy imagining his future if he doesn't even know him? If this confirms anything it's that the statement isn't literal.

False equivalence, Gremmy's power literally does turn whatever he imagines into reality, lol.

It's not a false equivalence. I'm not saying they're identical I'm trying to give you a similar example so you understand the point that this is just a common metaphor which Gremmy specifically uses BECAUSE the metaphor fits his ability.

It's like if a fire user said "oh you just got burned" after insulting someone and you tried to claim he literally burned them with some hax.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

it's just a metaphorical phrase to say you can't envision the possibility of something

gremmy can't imagine a future for him because he won't live to tell the tale, hard disagree

 

[ItsMeat]

No he's not.

I actually HEAVILY disagree with that as well. He literally just blows him up. He doesn't erase anything or anyone he straight up blows him up into smithereens

He literally wipes him out and pieces of him just start disappearing. Reishi particles don’t disperse or anything and the anime further shows him just vanishing because he no longer exists in gremmy's mind, just like how the thought of yachiru's bones being cookies no longer existed in gremmy'a mind so they reverted to normal. These being said,

.But that's not the topic of this CRT.

This is true

Again this all relies on taking the statement literally. And I'm saying it's just clearly not literal.

You just say it is not literal, but do you even have a reason and preferably a scan ro actually support this claim?

This is an extremely common type of figure of speech. It's like how Ichigo saying he can't imagine Chad losing isn't because he's literally incapable of doing so, rather it's just a figure of speech.

It's not the same, also Gremmy's imagination actually turns into reality. Also, Ichigo literally means he can't even imagine Chad losing. And the key is that "anymore" which shows he was able to do that previously.

Scan doesn't work.

Try again now

He also literally says "I don't know who you are".
How is Gremmy imagining his future if he doesn't even know him? If this confirms anything it's that the statement isn't literal.

Are you sure you actually read the manga and watched the anime? In the literal previous page Gremmy explains Guanael's ability and everything, showing he knows him and everything even after Guanael used his ability. Gremmy just decided to get rid of him.

It's not a false equivalence. I'm not saying they're identical I'm trying to give you a similar example so you understand the point that this is just a common metaphor which Gremmy specifically uses BECAUSE the metaphor fits his ability.

What is this scan supposed to show? That Gremmy decided to get rid of Guanael?

It's like if a fire user said "oh you just got burned" after insulting someone and you tried to claim he literally burned them with some hax.

How is it the same thing??

 

[DavidTPPM]

You just say it is not literal, but do you even have a reason and preferably a scan ro actually support this claim?

I gave you the reasoning twice already.

On the other hand do you have any reason or evidence to suggest it's literal? Is Gremmy ever shown manipulating fate, the future, or anything that this would imply at face value on screen? Or is it just a single metaphor?

Try again now

Still not working for me.

Are you sure you actually read the manga and watched the anime? In the literal previous page Gremmy explains Guanael's ability and everything, showing he knows him and everything even after Guanael used his ability. Gremmy just decided to get rid of him.

And yet Guanael didn't stop existing. Gremmy can't be imagining his future if Gremmy doesn't know him so your entire argument is not only just blatantly based on a metaphor but also straight up contradictory to the manga and anime.

What is this scan supposed to show?

Uhhh you added that scan to the quote, I didn't link that lol.

How is it the same thing??

What part do you not understand? Because istg what I explained is EXTREMELY simple, I can't imagine you not understanding it (hah)

 

[AyOgUyS]

David makes sense to me

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I’m pretty sure Meat’s issue is you’re equating Ichigo for example saying I can’t imagine Chad losing which ofc is a metaphor because Ichigo doesn’t have this power. But Gremmy who’s a thought based reality warper who’s thought manifest into reality the moment he imagines it holds the same weight as a random metaphor without any weight.

I can see a possibly at least for this due to the nature of his power.

 

[ItsMeat]

I gave you the reasoning twice already.

No, you literally just said it's a metaphor with no actual proof for it.

On the other hand do you have any reason or evidence to suggest it's literal? Is Gremmy ever shown manipulating fate, the future, or anything that this would imply at face value on screen? Or is it just a single metaphor?

Here you go

Still not working for me.

Bruh

And yet Guanael didn't stop existing.

He literally did AFTER gremmy no longer had him in his mind

Gremmy can't be imagining his future if Gremmy doesn't know him

I did just show you gremmy recognizing him after Guanael erased himself from people’s memories, lol.

so your entire argument is not only just blatantly based on a metaphor but also straight up contradictory to the manga and anime.

Bruh, I don’t what is so hard to get. Anyway the line of events:
1. Sometime in the past, Gremmy creates Guanael
2. Guanael fights Yachiru and uses his ability to erase himself from people’s minds. 3. It works on everyone except gremmy who still remembers him and his ability.
4. Gremmy stops imagining Guanael and Guanael is gone.

The "I can't imagine your future anymore" scan is right before Guanael completely disappearing.

Uhhh you added that scan to the quote, I didn't link that lol.

Strange, it literally appeared there.

Edit: perhaps I had that text selected asw when adding the link, but I don't remember it. Anyway, I see you still didn't explain why they are the same thing.

What part do you not understand? Because istg what I explained is EXTREMELY simple, I can't imagine you not understanding it (hah)

I have the same question lol.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

No, you literally just said it's a metaphor with no actual proof for it.

You're not supposed to take the most highballed interpretation and demand written evidence for those who believe otherwise, it's your job to support your interpretation of it being anything other than a stock phrase

 

[Saqphire]

Disagree with fate manip, agree with the rest

 

[ItsMeat]

You're not supposed to take the most highballed interpretation and demand written evidence for those who believe otherwise, it's your job to support your interpretation of it being anything other than a stock phrase

You're also supposed to show proof for a claim, else it means nothing. It's fine to disagree with something, but if you claim it is a metaphor or whatever, you also must at least explain why, not just make a random analogy that isn’t even correct and is already based on the assumption that it is a metaphor

 

[DavidTPPM]

No, you literally just said it's a metaphor with no actual proof for it.

I gave you several explanations on why it's a metaphor. Also even if I didn't it's literally just your word vs mine.

You didn't provide any reasoning why it should be literal nor any evidence it is. And given how extraordinary the claim is the evidence should be extraordinary as well. Basically if you wanna do this the "turbo super debater style", the sagan standard makes my position require far less evidence than yours.

Here you go

The link is broken but I managed to fix it and assuming I got to where you wanted me to get, that's not evidence the statement is literal.

Bruh

Idk if my phone is going crazy or you're messing up the links.

He literally did AFTER gremmy no longer had him in his mind

Gremmy literally informs him he doesn't know who he is and even praises his ability.

Which would be impossible as the moment Gremmy doesn't know him he should have stopped existing. The fact that he didn't directly debunks the idea it's a literal statement.

I did just show you gremmy recognizing him after Guanael erased himself from people’s memories, lol

Which would be impossible if Gremmy was imagining his future to begin with AND wouldn't make Gremmy imagine his future.

Bruh, I don’t what is so hard to get. Anyway the line of events:
1. Sometime in the past, Gremmy creates Guanael
2. Guanael fights Yachiru and uses his ability to erase himself from people’s minds. 3. It works on everyone except gremmy who still remembers him and his ability.
4. Gremmy stops imagining Guanael and Guanael is gone.

More like:
1. Gremmy creates Guatemala
2. Guadeloupe erases himself from Gremmy's mind
3. Gremmy says a cool pun-like line, then blows Guacamole up.

It's really simple if you don't try to force every figure of speech as literal.

The "I can't imagine your future anymore" scan is right before Guanael completely disappearing.

Yeah which would be impossible if Gremmy was imagining his future to begin with.
Also calling it "disappearing" is a very misleading choice of words.

It's right before Gremmy blows him. He doesn't disappear, Gremmy explodes him.

Strange, it literally appeared there.

The comments on the wiki are kinda silly like that sometimes. Especially with replies (my comments randomly turn italic from time to lol)

 

[ItsMeat]

I gave you several explanations on why it's a metaphor.

No, you didn't

Also even if I didn't it's literally just your word vs mine.

My word supported by the fact gremmy' imagination becomes reality vs your word supported by…nothing at all.

You didn't provide any reasoning why it should be literal nor any evidence it is.

Literally provided scans that support this idea(including the manga scan which is even more straightforwards "I can't imagine your future anymore". Also explained why this anymore does in fact show he could do that.

And given how extraordinary the claim is the evidence should be extraordinary as well. Basically if you wanna do this the "turbo super debater style", the sagan standard makes my position require far less evidence than yours.

Pretty sure that claiming the future of his creations is, for no reason at all, an exception from his ability which turns everything he imagines into reality is far more of a stretch than claiming it isn't and showing a scan that implies he does imagine their future. Also "turbo super debater style", lol.

The link is broken but I managed to fix it and assuming I got to where you wanted me to get, that's not evidence the statement is literal.

I gave up on sending the original link so instead I sent something different which most people there seemed to agree to.

Idk if my phone is going crazy or you're messing up the links.

I believe it's the former.

Gremmy literally informs him he doesn't know who he is and even praises his ability.

Thing which is directly debunked by the scan I sent which shows gremmy recognizes him even after he erased his existence from people’s minds.

Which would be impossible as the moment Gremmy doesn't know him he should have stopped existing. The fact that he didn't directly debunks the idea it's a literal statement.

Or just shows gremmy has resistance to memory erasure(at least from guanael's ability)? Which is far more likely given guanael is merely a creation of him after all.

Which would be impossible if Gremmy was imagining his future to begin with AND wouldn't make Gremmy imagine his future.

Why would it be impossible?

More like:
1. Gremmy creates Guatemala

Good.

2. Guadeloupe erases himself from Gremmy's mind

Wrong, literally shown gremmy remembered him even after that

3. Gremmy says a cool pun-like line, then blows Guacamole up.

Or gremmy just decides to get rid of him and makes him vanish by removing him from his imagination.

It's really simple if you don't try to force every figure of speech as literal.

It's even simpler if you actually read the story/watch the anime...

Yeah which would be impossible if Gremmy was imagining his future to begin with.
Also calling it "disappearing" is a very misleading choice of words.

Why would it be impossible? And why is that a misleading choice of words? It's already accepted gremmy has nep erasure.

It's right before Gremmy blows him. He doesn't disappear, Gremmy explodes him.

He literally disappears...

The comments on the wiki are kinda silly like that sometimes. Especially with replies (my comments randomly turn italic from time to lol)

Oh lol

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Dude burden shifted on me after being told he’s not supposed to burden shift

 

[DavidTPPM]

No, you didn't

I did multiple times now. I'm not going to endlessly repeat myself.

My word supported by the fact gremmy' imagination becomes reality vs your word supported by…nothing at all.

That doesn't support your word and I already explained why multiple times.

That ability doesn't SUPPORT your interpretation it merely enables it to exist. It's like me saying the existence of metaphors supports my word.

Literally provided scans that support this idea

No you didn't and I already explained why those scans don't support it. Please stop going on circles.

Pretty sure that claiming the future of his creations is, for no reason at all, an exception from his ability which turns everything he imagines into reality is far more of a stretch than claiming it isn't and showing a scan that implies he does imagine their future.

That's not what I'm claiming. Or in your words "erm that's a strawman ".
I never said Don Quixote is an exception to Gremmy's ability, I'm saying his statement is a metaphor meaning Gremmy doesn't sustain his creations by constantly imagining their future at all.

Thing which is directly debunked by the scan I sent which shows gremmy recognizes him even after he erased his existence from people’s minds.

And like I already told you, that means nothing. Recognizing that Quanxi exists doesn't mean he's actively imagining his future and has been the entire time.

Hell if his future was dependent on Gremmy imagining it, then his entire existence should have changed the second Gremmy forgot who he was as in his now imagined future he'd be an unknown person with none of his previously known traits.

Or just shows gremmy has resistance to memory erasure(at least from guanael's ability)? Which is far more likely given guanael is merely a creation of him after all.

"I'm sorry… I don't know who you are"
(scan that you sent)

Why would it be impossible?

Because imagining the future of an unknown person is impossible? Especially in a way that still maintains all their previous characteristics like abilities and personality.

Good.

Wrong, literally shown gremmy remembered him even after that

He literally says "I don't know who you are" in the same sentence as the statement you're using here.

Or gremmy just decides to get rid of him and makes him vanish by removing him from his imagination.

No he decided to get rid of him by BLOWING HIM UP

It's already accepted gremmy has nep erasure.

He literally disappears...

If this is subjective reality based EE we better start giving grenade launchers EE as well

Jokes aside like I said, this thread isn't about the absolutely hilarious "existence erasure" rating so this doesn't really matter. The point is he didn't just disappear because Gremmy stopped imagining his fate or whatnot, he was literally blown to smithereens by Gremmy.

Whether that's accepted as erasure or whatnot doesn't matter here, what matters is he didn't simply disappear but was actively destroyed by Gremmy.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Are we sure the struggle imitating abilities isn't her own ability having a weakness rather than them having resistance? I'm open to the SAFWY part if this concern can be answered.

I'd have to say I disagree with the Gremmy part. His subjective reality already seems to cover what happens with his abilities and creations.

 

[Hecky2222]

I agree with everything except Gremmy part

That seems to be metaphor not that implying he has this ability. Unless you can prove how it is straightforward statement which can be Fate Manipulation I lean towards to disagree

 

[ItsMeat]

I did multiple times now. I'm not going to endlessly repeat myself.

Yeah...sure...

That doesn't support your word and I already explained why multiple times.

You didn't even attempt to argue against manga's wording or anything, you just keep claiming it's a metaphor.

That ability doesn't SUPPORT your interpretation it merely enables it to exist. It's like me saying the existence of metaphors supports my word.

The ability does support my claim. And it’s clearly not the same thing. Lol.

The ability turns everything gremmy imagines into reality. This is a universal.

Metaphors existing => Some claims are metaphors. This is a particular, lol.

For the ability to merely enable the possibility of gremmy doing so to exist, it would mean some things Gremmy imagines turn into reality. While this is not, wrong, we know that everything he imagines turns into reality.

No you didn't and I already explained why those scans don't support it. Please stop going on circles.

You are literally repeating an opinion without even forming an argument why it is so lol. And I also explained where you're wrong which you conveniently decided to ignore.

That's not what I'm claiming. Or in your words "erm that's a strawman ".
I never said Don Quixote is an exception to Gremmy's ability, I'm saying his statement is a metaphor meaning Gremmy doesn't sustain his creations by constantly imagining their future at all.

Did I ever say he sustains them by constantly imagining their future? Now, "that's a strawman". He merely sustains the products of his ability by constantly imagining them. By removing them from his mind, they disappear. He doesn't need to keep imagining their future constantly.

The entire point of the gremmy thing is that Fate Manipulation is one of the applications of his ability via him imagining the future.

And like I already told you, that means nothing. Recognizing that Quanxi exists doesn't mean he's actively imagining his future and has been the entire time.

Did I say he is? And it means he wasn't affected by guanael's memeory erasure. In fact, seeing how everyone didsagrees with fate manip, I should perhaps change the proposal.

Hell if his future was dependent on Gremmy imagining it, then his entire existence should have changed the second Gremmy forgot who he was as in his now imagined future he'd be an unknown person with none of his previously known traits.

And gremmy remembered him even after guanael used his ability. He started wiping guanael from his imagination and part of guanael disappeared.

"I'm sorry… I don't know who you are"
(scan that you sent)

Facts>words. For a fact, gremmy did remember him after guanael already erased himself. The fact he started deleting guanael from his mind after that means nothing.

Because imagining the future of an unknown person is impossible? Especially in a way that still maintains all their previous characteristics like abilities and personality.

And this is literally what gremmy says right before killing him? That he can no longer imagine his future?

He literally says "I don't know who you are" in the same sentence as the statement you're using here.

Yeah, so? He didn't miraculously forget everything about him in an instant thanks to guanael's ability, he just gradually forgot him.

No he decided to get rid of him by BLOWING HIM UP

If this is subjective reality based EE we better start giving grenade launchers EE as well

Jokes aside like I said, this thread isn't about the absolutely hilarious "existence erasure" rating so this doesn't really matter. The point is he didn't just disappear because Gremmy stopped imagining his fate or whatnot, he was literally blown to smithereens by Gremmy.

Whether that's accepted as erasure or whatnot doesn't matter here, what matters is he didn't simply disappear but was actively destroyed by Gremmy.

Lmao, bro is coping so hard. Was it really that hard to include the next 5 seconds in your video? Here's the full scene:

As Gremmy deletes Guanael from his mind, his flesh also disappears

Are we sure the struggle imitating abilities isn't her own ability having a weakness rather than them having resistance? I'm open to the SAFWY part if this concern can be answered.

I do think so because there's also Tokinada with Enryakoten literally eating away at his soul each time he uses another zanpakto's power.

Tho, are you leaning towards agreeing with the safwy proposals with the ratings in the brackets(they're in brackets because I'm not sure if that labeling should apply) or without them?

I'd have to say I disagree with the Gremmy part. His subjective reality already seems to cover what happens with his abilities and creations.

I see

 

[Cipher72]

Spoiler: SAFWY section

Roca Paramia's ability she gained from Szayel's experiments is to freely share information with everything her threads connected with. Similarly, she also passively absorbs information. Her released form's special ability allows her to replicate everything she's gathered information about. For example, she's able to fully replicate Luppi's Trepadora.

Now:

She can't reproduce Aizen's powers without the Hogyōku and she cannot reproduce the Hōgyoku or Respira properly.

Also, in Bleach, using an ability without being its rightful owner has severe consequences on your body as well, especially if it is a really powerful one.

Spoiler: SAFWY section

Roca Paramia's ability she gained from Szayel's experiments is to freely share information with everything her threads connected with. Similarly, she also passively absorbs information. Her released form's special ability allows her to replicate everything she's gathered information about. For example, she's able to fully replicate Luppi's Trepadora.

Now:

She can't reproduce Aizen's powers without the Hogyōku and she cannot reproduce the Hōgyoku or Respira properly.

Also, in Bleach, using an ability without being its rightful owner has severe consequences on your body as well, especially if it is a really powerful one.

Proposals:

High tier souls get (Unconventional) Power Mimicry Resistance

Baraggan gets Limited Information Analysis Resistance & Limited Power Mimicry Resistance - only applies to his Respira.

Aizen gets Unconventional Power Mimicry Resistance(cannot reproduce his powers without the Hōgyoku) and Hōgyoku gets Information Analysis Resistance & (Limited) Power Mimicry Resistance

Agree(Without the ratings in the brackets): @AyOgUyS @Apotheosis69 @Saqphire

Agree(With the ratings in the brackets): @AyOgUyS @Apotheosis69 @Saqphire

Disagree:

Spoiler: Gremmy

This one is much shorter, Gremmy should get Fate Manipulation via Subjective Reality as he is effectively the one imagining the future of his creations.

Agree: (at least a possibly) @Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye

Disagree: @DavidTPPM @Apotheosis69 @AyOgUyS @Ghostimuscrime @Saqphire

Agree&disagree counts are directly under their respective section(safwy / gremmy), for convenience

Proposals:

High tier souls get (Unconventional) Power Mimicry Resistance

Baraggan gets Limited Information Analysis Resistance & Limited Power Mimicry Resistance - only applies to his Respira.

Aizen gets Unconventional Power Mimicry Resistance(cannot reproduce his powers without the Hōgyoku) and Hōgyoku gets Information Analysis Resistance & (Limited) Power Mimicry Resistance

Agree(Without the ratings in the brackets): @AyOgUyS @Apotheosis69 @Saqphire

Agree(With the ratings in the brackets): @AyOgUyS @Apotheosis69 @Saqphire

Disagree:

Spoiler: Gremmy

This one is much shorter, Gremmy should get Fate Manipulation via Subjective Reality as he is effectively the one imagining the future of his creations.

Agree: (at least a possibly) @Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye

Disagree: @DavidTPPM @Apotheosis69 @AyOgUyS @Ghostimuscrime @Saqphire

Agree&disagree counts are directly under their respective section(safwy / gremmy), for convenience

Agree with Barragan's limited power mimicry proposal however in the scan it says it's not possible to replicate Aizen's powers without the Hogyoku and that “Threads alone cannot replicate a power like the Hogyoku” meaning that the power in question is in reference to the Hogyoku's power that Aizen can use and not Aizen's power hence I disagree with all High tier souls and even Aizen getting this resistance.

Neutral on the Gremmy but leaning more towards disagreement.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

I didn't understand the SAFWY section.

If Rooka is weaker than them, she can use their abilities in a flawed way. Like Tokinada. So why would this give resistance to those stronger than Rooka? This shows that Rooka's Power Mimcry is limited by her AP.

 

[ItsMeat]

I didn't understand the SAFWY section.

If Rooka is weaker than them, she can use their abilities in a flawed way. Like Tokinada. So why would this give resistance to those stronger than Rooka? This shows that Rooka's Power Mimcry is limited by her AP.

In fact, Roca uses attacks at the power they normally have, else her mugetsu wouldn't even scratch Cien. It's also stated that she could have copied the power ulquiorra and ichigo used in their final fight.

Also, it took Roca a few minutes to absorb enough reishi to compensate for her own lack of power in order to have enough power to use mugetsu.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

In fact, Roca uses attacks at the power they normally have, else her mugetsu wouldn't even scratch Cien. It's also stated that she could have copied the power ulquiorra and ichigo used in their final fight.

Also, it took Roca a few minutes to absorb enough reishi to compensate for her own lack of power in order to have enough power to use mugetsu.

Okay, but why is this resistance? It shows that its Power Mimcry is limited by its Attack Potency.

 

[ItsMeat]

Okay, but why is this resistance? It shows that its Power Mimcry is limited by its Attack Potency.

Unconventional Resistance because it takes a toll on the body to use another's techniques in general. This isn't ap related only. She also suffered when reproducing Zommari's Gemelos Sonido which is a speed technique. And there's Tokinada's example asw. In his case, he can use other zanpakto's techniques at a power limited by his own power. Thus, he doesn’t risk being affected by the greater ap or anything. Yet, it still consumes his soul each time he uses one.

 

[ItsMeat]

Updated Gremmy proposal as I said I will and Bump

 

[ItsMeat]

Bump

 

[Cipher72]

She can't reproduce Aizen's powers without the Hogyōku and she cannot reproduce the Hōgyoku or Respira properly.
Also, in Bleach, using an ability without being its rightful owner has severe consequences on your body as well, especially if it is a really powerful one.

Proposals:

High tier souls get (Unconventional) Power Mimicry Resistance

Disagree with the first being used as justification for this as the text says;

However, the fact remained—there was no other power capable of stopping Cien.
Aizen's power could not be reconstructed without the Hōgyoku. Threads alone could not replicate powers such as the Hōgyoku or Baraggan’s “curse.”

Meaning that she can't copy the Hogyoku's Powers or Barragan's Powers and that Aizen's Powers (His full kit) is incomplete without the Hogyoku. So Roca being unable to copy Aizen's powers is because of her inability to replicate the Hogyoku's Powers. I agree with using the second argument as Justification for this resistance.

Baraggan gets Limited Information Analysis Resistance & Limited Power Mimicry Resistance - only applies to his Respira.

Agreed

Aizen gets Unconventional Power Mimicry Resistance(cannot reproduce his powers without the Hōgyoku) and Hōgyoku gets Information Analysis Resistance & (Limited) Power Mimicry Resistance

Agree

This one is much shorter, Gremmy should get Fate Manipulation via Subjective Reality as he is effectively the one imagining the future of his creations.

Disagree FRA
Also to add my own two cents

Spoiler: Yap about it being Irrelevant

He doesn't actually manipulate fate but rather just continue imagine his creations so whilst the “future” of his creations is a result of his imagination it's indirect and just a by-product of his ability meaning it's not combat applicable whatsoever (unless he is going up against his creations) so I don't even see the point in indexing this.

Resistance to Memory Erasure (Gremmy could remember and recognise Guanael even after the latter repeatedly used the third stage of Vanishing Point which erases him from people’s memories.)

I think this is more so because Gremmy needs to keep imagining them, If Gremmy actually forgot about him then he would die ? Which is what what happened after he said “I don't know who you are” so I don't rlly see how this works. I think this is too vague imo neutral leaning towards disagreement.

That's it from me to sum it up;

Limited agreement with the first Proposal (removal of the first Justification for Unconventional Resistance to Power Mimicry) and Disagree with the latter two.

Let's wait for mods ig

 

[SomebodyData]

I'm in agreement with Cipher72's opinions on the matter tbh

 

[ItsMeat]

I think this is more so because Gremmy needs to keep imagining them, If Gremmy actually forgot about him then he would die ? Which is what what happened after he said “I don't know who you are” so I don't rlly see how this works. I think this is too vague imo neutral leaning towards disagreement.

And that's what I'm saying, unlike in anyone else's mind, he still was in gremmy's(as gremmy recognised him, knew he was a product of his imagination and knew his powers) despite using the 3rd stage and when gremmy chose to forget him, he died.

And the Aizen&Barragan part wasn't meant to be part of the justification for the unconventional power mimicry resistance, but it’s my fault for not making it more clear.
Good points tho

 

[Cipher72]

And that's what I'm saying, unlike in anyone else's mind, he still was in gremmy's(as gremmy recognised him, knew he was a product of his imagination and knew his powers) despite using the 3rd stage and when gremmy chose to forget him, he died.

I think it's mostly because Guenael Lee is Gremmy's creation that he has that which is why Imo it's better to not index that.

 

[ItsMeat]

I think it's mostly because Guenael Lee is Gremmy's creation that he has that which is why Imo it's better to not index that.

I mean there are people who can use mind wiping abilities in an attempt to make gremmy's creations disappear in a potential crossverse, but I can see your point

I think the only thing that would be against your point is gremmy's statement that his creations will keep existing even after his death(which means he doesn't need to sustain them):

 

[SacredDao]

Agree with everything except for fate manipulation (Neutral on that)

 

[ItsMeat]

Are we sure the struggle imitating abilities isn't her own ability having a weakness rather than them having resistance? I'm open to the SAFWY part if this concern can be answered.

I think i answered it

Edit: Also, how many mod agrees do i need for the safwy section to pass?

I'd have to say I disagree with the Gremmy part. His subjective reality already seems to cover what happens with his abilities and creations.

Check the updated proposal too

This is a bump

 

[Random-Helper323]

Edit: Also, how many mod agrees do i need for the safwy section to pass?

Three.

Check the updated proposal too

This is a bump

I'll take a look.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Roca Paramia's ability she gained from Szayel's experiments is to freely share information with everything her threads connected with. Similarly, she also passively absorbs information. Her released form's special ability allows her to replicate everything she's gathered information about. For example, she's able to fully replicate Luppi's Trepadora.

Now:

She can't reproduce Aizen's powers without the Hogyōku and she cannot reproduce the Hōgyoku or Respira properly.

Also, in Bleach, using an ability without being its rightful owner has severe consequences on your body as well, especially if it is a really powerful one.

Proposals:

High tier souls get (Unconventional) Power Mimicry Resistance

Baraggan gets Limited Information Analysis Resistance & Limited Power Mimicry Resistance - only applies to his Respira.

Aizen gets Unconventional Power Mimicry Resistance(cannot reproduce his powers without the Hōgyoku) and Hōgyoku gets Information Analysis Resistance & (Limited) Power Mimicry Resistance

Could it be that a certain level of power is needed to wield them? Could Aizen and Barragan's abilities be a large strain? The ability she's described imitating is a basic multiple limbs transformation from Luppi. Meanwhile the abilities she's described as unable to imitate are time hax, illusions and the Hogyoku. Couldn't this just be her ability having limits?

This one is much shorter, Gremmy should get Fate Manipulation via Subjective Reality as he is effectively the one imagining the future of his creations.

I'm sorry, I still don't know if we can call this fate hax when he keeps them in existence with his thoughts. It's more like them having a subjective existence controlled by him.

Resistance to Memory Erasure (Gremmy could remember and recognise Guanael even after the latter repeatedly used the third stage of Vanishing Point which erases him from people’s memories.)

Gremmy imagined him and the ability though. He controlled him in some form the entire time. He could literally have the ability rigged to not work on himself.