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Hell is truly forever! Hazbin Hotel downgrades

StrymULTRA said:
BTW updated the OP with how Adam would still retain his Heat hax by making her steam.

Also, shouldn't Charlie and Vaggie scale too as they've been hit from also the shockwave and took it better than Niffty?
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Sure, although it’s more of a downscale.
 
LIFE_OF_KING said:
Yeah, you. You said that Alastor's feat isn't LS based so if anything it would be good for you to give some opinion about it, since it's being applied now
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I'm at work, but I feel like my opinion wouldn't really change
 
Anonymous_Learner said:
Since always (It's a controversial verse...which makes sense), otherwise FP Charlie and the featless 6 (the sins) would be downscaling lucifer's speed from my crt
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Hell nah... I don't remember it being the case at all, and the controversial verses staff thread isn't concluded yet, so 2 is enough.
 
I think the first feat is ambiguous. The visuals certainly seem to support it being considered heat, and thus vaporization, even though it doesn't leave vapor behind (visibly, at least). Leaving ash in the air (those black wisps that fade away) also seems to suggest incineration, not pulverization. I don't think your suggestion is better than what it is currently, and I'd personally be content to leave 7-C on as a "possibly". For the record, I acknowledge the melting point argument, however this is a bit more in the weeds and not something I expect a showrunner to represent consistently; it is not as blatant as, for example, your next points' inconsistencies.

Your other points seem well founded enough, in particular the LS anti-feats create a pretty damning case.

That said, in regards to Class K... that boulder looks pretty decently sized, and she's at a terrible angle for lifting it (arm already twisted beneath it, by the looks of it). It's never really in-frame. If there are Class K feats that scale to this individual, I'm not sure I'd count a boulder that I could feasibly see reaching Class 100 too significant of an anti-feat. I'm neutral on that point.

Anonymous_Learner said:
1 staff down, 2 more to go.
cya ya'll in a month
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Green Day - When I Come Around, Official Music Video, 0:40 🫵
 
Mr. Bambu said:
I think the first feat is ambiguous. The visuals certainly seem to support it being considered heat, and thus vaporization, even though it doesn't leave vapor behind (visibly, at least). Leaving ash in the air (those black wisps that fade away) also seems to suggest incineration, not pulverization. I don't think your suggestion is better than what it is currently, and I'd personally be content to leave 7-C on as a "possibly". For the record, I acknowledge the melting point argument, however this is a bit more in the weeds and not something I expect a showrunner to represent consistently; it is not as blatant as, for example, your next points' inconsistencies.
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Regarding the vaporization end, if we really are going to use it, it would be this (taking the volumes from here, the halved stuff is assuming they're made equally of glass and steel):
  • Steel = ((1946.37/2) + (260.8/2) + 67.08 + 96.272) * 1e6 * 59944.88 = 7.594638643e+13 Joules
  • Glass (with highest end of melting as I can't find vaporization) = ((1946.37/2) + (260.8/2)) * 1e6 * 2919.84 = 3.222291626e+12 Joules
  • Total = 7.594638643e+13 + 3.222291626e+12 = 7.91686781e+13 Joules or 18.92 Kilotons. Aka still 7-C but lower than the current one.
But I assume you'd wanna hear first other staff's input regarding this, right? I personally would still keep pulverization as a safer low end, given the stuff that happens later, plus him "erasing" the ship could be just AP rather than also heat.

Edit: Pretty sure you also can't really incinerate metal, which further solidifies my stance on it being just pulverization.
 
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StrymULTRA said:
Regarding the vaporization end, if we really are going to use it, it would be this (taking the volumes from here, the halved stuff is assuming they're made equally of glass and steel):
  • Steel = ((1946.37/2) + (260.8/2) + 67.08 + 96.272) * 1e6 * 59944.88 = 7.594638643e+13 Joules
  • Glass (with highest end of melting as I can't find vaporization) = ((1946.37/2) + (260.8/2)) * 1e6 * 2919.84 = 3.222291626e+12 Joules
  • Total = 7.594638643e+13 + 3.222291626e+12 = 7.91686781e+13 Joules or 18.92 Kilotons. Aka still 7-C but lower than the current one.
But I assume you'd wanna hear first other staff's input regarding this, right? I personally would still keep pulverization as a safer low end, given the stuff that happens later, plus him "erasing" the ship could be just AP rather than also heat.

Edit: Pretty sure you also can't really incinerate metal, which further solidifies my stance on it being just pulverization.
Click to expand...
I'd want this laid out as a calc, maybe we could figure out the value for glass? It seems there probably is one, one would just hope it can be reliably determined from figures available online.

Either way. I am fine with treating it as a low-end of pulv, I just also don't think vaporization is absurd given the visuals; it's a rare instance where I think the original assumption was reasonably well grounded.

I would prefer to give it a couple days, if at least one other staff could speak on the 7-C thing, yeah. Everything else I consider accepted, though.
 
Mr. Bambu said:
I'd want this laid out as a calc
Click to expand...
I'd do that if it even gets accepted here though.
Mr. Bambu said:
It seems there probably is one, one would just hope it can be reliably determined from figures available online.
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I tried to search in the wiki but I couldn't find jack. Even stuff like vaporizing cars use just melting for the glass parts.
Zyurtunder13 said:
Why are we using fire from wood as an example? Shouldn't we just used the temperature of fire according to its color?
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Tbh the wiki never has given a set temperature of fire, so I'll just leave it at that.

Though @Mr. Bambu, whether we decide to treat it as Vaporization or not, would Adam's Holy Light even have Heat Manip? Rethinking about this, multiple characters have their best feats regarding vaporizing something, but it's just a part of their Energy Projection rather than automatically having heat hax (here, here or here are examples I've found). I think it's because of these being just AP that is high enough to vaporize something rather than them being temperature manipulation of some sort (which would make these being AP feats questionable in the 1st place, if they vaporize stuff by just heating up rather than just blasting them really hard).
 
StrymULTRA said:
Though @Mr. Bambu, whether we decide to treat it as Vaporization or not, would Adam's Holy Light even have Heat Manip? Rethinking about this, multiple characters have their best feats regarding vaporizing something, but it's just a part of their Energy Projection rather than automatically having heat hax (here, here or here are examples I've found). I think it's because of these being just AP that is high enough to vaporize something rather than them being temperature manipulation of some sort (which would make these being AP feats questionable in the 1st place, if they vaporize stuff by just heating up rather than just blasting them really hard).
Click to expand...
Think those are just missing the ability that's all. It’s not like beams are inherently hot.

Also a really big counter example is Ki Manipulation having Heat Generation for cooking a squid.
 
Eden_Warlock99 said:
Think those are just missing the ability that's all. A really big counter example is how Ki Manipulation has Heat Generation for cooking a squid.
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The issue is that Ki in this case as actual heat-based feats for it. We don't say that every beam that happens to be strong enough to incinerate something means it has heat hax, no, it just happens to be a case of AP difference tbf.
 
Anonymous_Learner said:
alright then, mostly everything's excepted besides the 7-C stuff, right?
Click to expand...
Yeah.

We also need to discuss also:
  • How Sinners and Hellborns would scale to the 9-B/+ feats given what Eden brought up.
  • How Overlords would scale if the 8-B feat of Pentious is invalidated. I'd have said they scale to the 8-A explosion of Alastor, but he's got multiple times the title of strongest overlord, and he was pretty pissed when doing the feat. So without the Tier 6 stuff, idk where to scale the other Overlords without this feat.
 
StrymULTRA said:
How Overlords would scale if the 8-B feat of Pentious is invalidated. I'd have said they scale to the 8-A explosion of Alastor, but he's got multiple times the title of strongest overlord
Click to expand...
He also showed superior to individual Vees while weakened and was downscaling to Vox when the latter became the strongest Sinner. Heck, when Overlords heard that Alastor was defeated, they thought that it was Lucifer who did so.

Overlords scaling to FP Alastor can’t really be a thing.
StrymULTRA said:
and he was pretty pissed when doing the feat. So without the Tier 6 stuff, idk where to scale the other Overlords without this feat.
Click to expand...
Just upscale from Sinners.
 
StrymULTRA said:
How Sinners and Hellborns would scale to the 9-B/+ feats given what Eden brought up.
Click to expand...
Actually think I figured out a workaround, Cherri did take some hits and even knock out Kitty (Who's definitely a Robo Fizz model)
She's for sure stronger than Pentious, but they do regularly tussle.

Cherri herself definitely has some 9-A feats with her bombs, but that's going to require calcs.
How Overlords would scale if the 8-B feat of Pentious is invalidated. I'd have said they scale to the 8-A explosion of Alastor, but he's got multiple times the title of strongest overlord, and he was pretty pissed when doing the feat. So without the Tier 6 stuff, idk where to scale the other Overlords without this feat.
Click to expand...
Vox got his own 9-A feat, so that Ig
 
StrymULTRA said:
Yeah.

We also need to discuss also:
  • How Sinners and Hellborns would scale to the 9-B/+ feats given what Eden brought up.
  • How Overlords would scale if the 8-B feat of Pentious is invalidated. I'd have said they scale to the 8-A explosion of Alastor, but he's got multiple times the title of strongest overlord, and he was pretty pissed when doing the feat. So without the Tier 6 stuff, idk where to scale the other Overlords without this feat.
Click to expand...
Gotcha.
Random Sinners and Random Hellborns shouldn't scale since those npc sinners get splattered by a 9-B boulder, Alastor falling into said sinners splatters them, car explosions boom, and, though the hiarchy is...wack, to say the least, should somewhat be in play when it comes to sinners>hellborn as Striker says he and Blitzo are above most their kind, as evidence by Blitzo tossing around a npc sinner, so most Hellborns (besides those who have profiles on this site that scale to Blitzo and the other I.M.P. members) are vastly weaker than them so they don't scale. However, what now seems to be on everyone's minds since Eden brought it up is if the Sinner cast of Hazbin Hotel scales to any I.M.P's feats. And, though I really wanna say yes due to believing that, while the Hiachry is certainly wack, it seems to work in sometimes at certain places, I don't really have anything on my mind currently that scales them to i.mp. so maybe all their scaling to I.M.P. members gets removed, sadly (bye bye Subsonic+ scaling for Hazbin sinner cast, ig. Though, obviously, overlords get it)
As for Alastor scaling, I think they can either scale to 8-b+ downscaling shok.wav's feat with Vox possibly Massively downscaling Alastor at 8-A (exactly 100 tons of TNT) due to Alastor stating in the past he thought he was approaching his level with current day Alastor saying that, at the time, he did respect him, meaning he should be above most of the overlords, caused damaged to weakened Alastor, but of course there's the fact weakened al was trying to lose and later on went to say that he didn't think fighting vox was a challenge till Vox became the strongest sinner or they'd scale all downscale 9-A from Vox's causal feats since they got nothing else
 
Anonymous_Learner said:
so what is it that we can impliment for now?
Click to expand...
We'll just wait for the 9-A(?) calc of Cherri, the 9-B Pentious feat, and then wait another staff regarding the 7-C matter.
Detective_Blizzard said:
Pretty sure no matter where the explosion calc goes, its going to be the scaling line for the Overlords in general. Pretty sure every single Overlord was there for it
Click to expand...
Yeah but this thread is not about it, y'all can implement it after this one.

I assume that them all besides Alastor will become 9-A, right?
 
Detective_Blizzard said:
As the Vee expert, overlord just scale to Vox normally. Other overlords (Husk, Niffty) are comparable to other Vee members who are capable of harming Vox. It isn't until much later that Vox goes on his own level as Strongest Sinner
Click to expand...
fair enough, now we wait to implement this, ig
 
I tried to search in the wiki but I couldn't find jack. Even stuff like vaporizing cars use just melting for the glass parts.
Click to expand...
Let me clarify: we could try to determine the value from off-wiki sources. These aren't numbers we invented ourselves, they are determined from the physical attributes of the materials, and there is an equation to determining them. A lot of this information isn't available online, though, so we would have to hope it is for glass.

Tbh the wiki never has given a set temperature of fire, so I'll just leave it at that.
Click to expand...
Fire doesn't have a "set temperature"; we would generally use context clues. The color of the fire is indeed the most common clue we would use.

Though @Mr. Bambu, whether we decide to treat it as Vaporization or not, would Adam's Holy Light even have Heat Manip? Rethinking about this, multiple characters have their best feats regarding vaporizing something, but it's just a part of their Energy Projection rather than automatically having heat hax (here, here or here are examples I've found). I think it's because of these being just AP that is high enough to vaporize something rather than them being temperature manipulation of some sort (which would make these being AP feats questionable in the 1st place, if they vaporize stuff by just heating up rather than just blasting them really hard).
Click to expand...
"heat hax" is an objectively funny term. We would assume it to have a heat element, though, yes. It is the most straightforward way to vaporize something. There are technically others, but it is even more far-fetched.
 
Mr. Bambu said:
Let me clarify: we could try to determine the value from off-wiki sources. These aren't numbers we invented ourselves, they are determined from the physical attributes of the materials, and there is an equation to determining them. A lot of this information isn't available online, though, so we would have to hope it is for glass.
Click to expand...
This is true I am just that lazy. Jokes aside I dunno from where to really start.
Mr. Bambu said:
Fire doesn't have a "set temperature"; we would generally use context clues. The color of the fire is indeed the most common clue we would use.
Click to expand...
Eh whatever.
Mr. Bambu said:
"heat hax" is an objectively funny term. We would assume it to have a heat element, though, yes. It is the most straightforward way to vaporize something. There are technically others, but it is even more far-fetched.
Click to expand...
Tbh there was Adam making Niffty steam so there's that at least.
StrymULTRA said:
Edit: Pretty sure you also can't really incinerate metal, which further solidifies my stance on it being just pulverization.
Click to expand...
You did not really reply to this, btw.
 
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