Tier 1 Rex Salazar upgrade [ACCEPTED]

[Hellformer]

Jumping to next page with this bump

 

[Jag50]

So I'm guessing that's an agree then?

 

[Hellformer]

So I'm guessing that's an agree then?

Not until firestorm confirms it

 

[Hellformer]

Bump

 

[Hellformer]

Bump

 

[Firestorm808]

I know that but he could also travel to BDE1 realms which basically lack space and time. So a guy can drill tunnel in fabric of space-time doesn't have knowledge of BDE 1 realm and can yet visit there despite his powers granting him total understanding of space and time only. (My point is logic being flawed)

Thats objectively wrong because Van Kleiss said "my presence is violation of physics, an imbalance that the timestream seeks to correct, by wiping me from existence" (because he traveled in time and changed the history)

You may wonder why is this noteworthy?
The answer lies in "Parallel paradox" comic where Paradox explains that Alien X messed up with time which caused a paradox of contradiction within the timestream, and the timestream would eventually correct the history by wiping Elena from existence.

They function in the same manner so there's no way for timestream to be different in both the cases.

I am against using a generic phrase such as "wiping X from existence" to suggest that their definition of the timestream is equal. You need something originating from Generator Rex that gives a definitive scale on their definition of the timestream being a Tier 1 Structure.

Feel free to ask other staff on the matter.

 

[Hellformer]

I am against using a generic phrase such as "wiping X from existence" to suggest that their definition of the timestream is equal. You need something originating from Generator Rex that gives a definitive scale on their definition of the timestream being a Tier 1 Structure.

Feel free to ask other staff on the matter.

But that's how the structure is supposed to function, I don't see how a certain term being used in both the series and having the same functionality would mean different, that makes absolutely no sense.

If you need additional evidence, then we can take in account Van Kleiss' statement for Time being like a river, which aligns with Paradox's statement (word by word), which in turn is nothing more than physical description of the timestream.

The term river is synonymous to stream, as in something that flows and moves (Aligns with what Paradox said)

More evidence I guess:
We currently accept timebeasts to not have Immeasurable speed (except when they access the hypertime). Instead they access the timestream by "FTL ability", which again aligns with what Breach did (traveled FTL to access the "river of time" or timestream)

 

[Hellformer]

I am against using a generic phrase such as "wiping X from existence" to suggest that their definition of the timestream is equal. You need something originating from Generator Rex that gives a definitive scale on their definition of the timestream being a Tier 1 Structure.

Feel free to ask other staff on the matter.

But that's how the structure is supposed to function, I don't see how a certain term being used in both the series and having the same functionality would mean different, that makes absolutely no sense.

If you need additional evidence, then we can take in account Van Kleiss' statement for Time being like a river, which aligns with Paradox's statement (word by word), which in turn is nothing more than physical description of the timestream.

The term river is synonymous to stream, as in something that flows and moves (Aligns with what Paradox said)

Additional evidence I guess:
We currently accept timebeasts to not have Immeasurable speed (except when they access the hypertime) and instead they access the timestream by "FTL ability", which again aligns with what Breach did (traveled FTL to access the "river of time" or timestream)

Summarising my arguments:

1. Timestream in both the series erases certain character who is the root cause for altering the history. Example: Van Kleiss and Elena
2. Time is described like a river (Physical description) Example: As explained by Van Kleiss and Paradox
3. In order to access the timestream, one can possess FTL time travel ability. Example: Timebeasts and Breach.

1 term, 3 aligning factors, yet I don't understand how they're supposed to be different.

 

[Jag50]

I am against using a generic phrase such as "wiping X from existence" to suggest that their definition of the timestream is equal. You need something originating from Generator Rex that gives a definitive scale on their definition of the timestream being a Tier 1 Structure.

Feel free to ask other staff on the matter.

Uhh... There's an immense amount of pages and verse's in this forum that got the pass for even less than this. So maybe we should because implication suggests rehauls everywhere are needed.

 

[Firestorm808]

From what I've seen so far, my stance has not changed.

In any case, you still need to contact multiple staff before any conclusion can be reached. Tier 1 related threads require roughly 4-5 staff votes

Your input on this thread is appreciated:
@DarkDragonMedeus
@ActuallySpaceMan42
@Elizhaa
@AKM sama
@Theglassman12

@Reiner04 Have the recent posts changed your stance on the matter?

 

[Jag50]

Bump

 

[Jag50]

Bump

 

[Reiner04]

From what I've seen so far, my stance has not changed.

In any case, you still need to contact multiple staff before any conclusion can be reached. Tier 1 related threads require roughly 4-5 staff votes

Your input on this thread is appreciated:
@DarkDragonMedeus
@ActuallySpaceMan42
@Elizhaa
@AKM sama
@Theglassman12

@Reiner04 Have the recent posts changed your stance on the matter?

Nope. I am still against tier 1 unless it is shown that Van kleiss used the timestream in same context as Ben's dimension does.

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Nope. I am still against tier 1 unless it is shown that Van kleiss used the timestream in same context as Ben's dimension does.

It been shown many times

Summarising my arguments:

1. Timestream in both the series erases certain character who is the root cause for altering the history. Example: Van Kleiss and Elena
2. Time is described like a river (Physical description) Example: As explained by Van Kleiss and Paradox
3. In order to access the timestream, one can possess FTL time travel ability. Example: Timebeasts and Breach.

1 term, 3 aligning factors, yet I don't understand how they're supposed to be different.

More proof:
After Van kleiss travel through time, effects of time travel, was caused Timestream in imbalance and violating of physics. Same thing happened to Paradox, when he was using Chronolauger to travel through time, effects of Time Travel, was affect Timestream, which damaging laws of physics
Full script

The Scientist THROWS the main power switch and the EXPERIMENT BEGINS. A TUNNEL is literally RIPPED through the fabric of time. The laws of physics BREAK DOWN. Objects in the room are impossibly STRETCHED and turned inside out.

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Also, why isn’t the Timestream in Rex the same as the Timestream in Ben 10? It literally accepts that Rex’s dimension is canon and exists within the Prime Timeline, meaning they share the same time/timestream that creates all other timelines. So it never makes sense for another Timestream to govern Rex’s dimension when Paradox clearly explained that the Timestream is where all timelines originate

 

[Hellformer]

Nope. I am still against tier 1 unless it is shown that Van kleiss used the timestream in same context as Ben's dimension does.

Only if you care to scroll and read

 

[Hellformer]

Anyways I'm fed up of the bias and have given up so yall can do whatever you want

 

[Jag50]

Nope. I am still against tier 1 unless it is shown that Van kleiss used the timestream in same context as Ben's dimension does.

Can you elaborate? Because I feel like you didn't actually read anything prior to your original vote.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

Before I close this for a minute, I should write this:

The Ben 10 series and Secret Saturdays are in the same universe, and the same things are mentioned in both series. Why wouldn't the same be true for the Gen Rex series, which shares the same cosmology even though they aren't in the same universe?

Secret Saturdays also features Animo and Hex. Are we saying it's not the one from Ben 10, for example?

Galvan Prime was mentioned. Are we saying it's not the Galvan Prime from Ben 10, but something else?

Simply put, there's a statement that says the Omnitrix provides protection against nanites. If the terms in Rex's series don't apply to Ben 10, what nanite is being mentioned here?

According to the Man of Action Panel 2012 , they say that Ben must have brought nanites with him when he returned to his own universe. I found it on the wiki. At what point do they say this? They didn't mention it.

So it is very likely that the same timestream will be present in both series.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

.

Can you review this too?

Before I close this for a minute, I should write this:

The Ben 10 series and Secret Saturdays are in the same universe, and the same things are mentioned in both series. Why wouldn't the same be true for the Gen Rex series, which shares the same cosmology even though they aren't in the same universe?

Secret Saturdays also features Animo and Hex. Are we saying it's not the one from Ben 10, for example?

Galvan Prime was mentioned. Are we saying it's not the Galvan Prime from Ben 10, but something else?

Simply put, there's a statement that says the Omnitrix provides protection against nanites. If the terms in Rex's series don't apply to Ben 10, what nanite is being mentioned here?

According to the Man of Action Panel 2012 , they say that Ben must have brought nanites with him when he returned to his own universe. I found it on the wiki. At what point do they say this? They didn't mention it.

So it is very likely that the same timestream will be present in both series.

 

[ReverseCross]

Agree

 

[Jag50]

Before I close this for a minute, I should write this:

The Ben 10 series and Secret Saturdays are in the same universe, and the same things are mentioned in both series. Why wouldn't the same be true for the Gen Rex series, which shares the same cosmology even though they aren't in the same universe?

Secret Saturdays also features Animo and Hex. Are we saying it's not the one from Ben 10, for example?

Galvan Prime was mentioned. Are we saying it's not the Galvan Prime from Ben 10, but something else?

Simply put, there's a statement that says the Omnitrix provides protection against nanites. If the terms in Rex's series don't apply to Ben 10, what nanite is being mentioned here?

According to the Man of Action Panel 2012 , they say that Ben must have brought nanites with him when he returned to his own universe. I found it on the wiki. At what point do they say this? They didn't mention it.

So it is very likely that the same timestream will be present in both series.

^

 

[Firestorm808]

So it is very likely that the same timestream will be present in both series.

The issue is the context of scale when referring to the timestream. In Generator Rex, it's only even been referred in the context of a single space-time continuum.

 

[Hellformer]

The issue is the context of scale when referring to the timestream. In Generator Rex, it's only even been referred in the context of a single space-time continuum.

Summarising my arguments:

1. Timestream in both the series erases certain character who is the root cause for altering the history. Example: Van Kleiss and Elena
2. Time is described like a river (Physical description) Example: As explained by Van Kleiss and Paradox
3. In order to access the timestream, one can possess FTL time travel ability. Example: Timebeasts and Breach.

1 term, 3 aligning factors, yet I don't understand how they're supposed to be different.

.....

 

[Firestorm808]

.....

It's not about being different all together. I'm referring to scale.

Overall, the timestream is a system of uncountable branches of rivers.

Yes, Generator Rex is part of that system, but the scale the series interacts with is just one of those rivers.

 

[Hellformer]

It's not about being different all together. I'm referring to scale.

Overall, the timestream is a system of uncountable branches of rivers.

Yes, Generator Rex is part of that system, but the scale the series interacts with is just one of those rivers.

If they're not different then you gotta believe that individual dimensions inherit same properties of the timestream in Ben 10
There's no evidence of such btw, which in turn renders your argument as a mere assumption.

 

[Firestorm808]

If they're not different then you gotta believe that individual dimensions inherit same properties of the timestream in Ben 10
There's no evidence of such btw, which in turn leaves your argument as a mere assumption.

I don't see how that is sufficient justification.

In Generator Rex, the characters are interacting with their own timeline.

The proposal then jumps to that the Omega Nanites can affect an uncountable number of timelines.

 

[Hellformer]

I don't see how that is sufficient justification.

In Generator Rex, the characters are interacting with their own timeline.

The proposal then jumps to that the Omega Nanites can affect an uncountable number of timelines.

How is that an issue? The thing you mentioned earlier was 5 spatio-temporal axes and I explained how Caesar must include 5th co-ordinate to find the Null Void. And you know that dimensional disruptor is nowhere near meta nanites. Therefore those nanites scaling to significant 5th dimension shouldn't be an issue either given there are multiple supporting factors.

 

[FinePoint]

I'm unsure how this establishes a superior dimension as in Low 1-C as opposed to just a structure containing many or even infinite timelines, such as 2-A.

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

I'm unsure how this establishes a superior dimension as in Low 1-C as opposed to just a structure containing many or even infinite timelines, such as 2-A.

The Timestream are actually accept as 5-D structure before

 

[FinePoint]

The Timestream are actually accept as 5-D structure before

Why?

 

[Firestorm808]

Why?

The Timestream as a whole is accepted to have uncountably infinite timelines.

 

[FinePoint]

The Timestream as a whole is accepted to have uncountably infinite timelines.

And having complete control over them would presumably be Low 1-C then.

I'm gathering this is more of a canonicity issue then? Like this comes from a crossover?

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

And having complete control over them would presumably be Low 1-C then.

I'm gathering this is more of a canonicity issue then? Like this comes from a crossover?

This crossover is canon, and also both of them are exiting in same timeline but different dimensions. And this is supported because Ben got a new alien in this episode and this alien appeared again in Ben 10 Omniverse and Ben still remembers it (Also WOG says it's canon as this alien are in Ben 10 Omniverse series). And also Rex appeared again in Ben 10 Dimension in Hero two times who accept as canon

 

[FinePoint]

This crossover is canon, and also both of them are exiting in same timeline but different dimensions. And this is supported because Ben got a new alien in this episode and this alien appeared again in Ben 10 Omniverse and Ben still remembers it (Also WOG says it's canon as this alien are in Ben 10 Omniverse series). And also Rex appeared again in Ben 10 Dimension in Hero two times who accept as canon

Okay. I reread the thread with all of this in mind.

It really sounds to me like they're talking about the same thing, though I acknowledge it's not in the most explicit way.

As a result, I think I'd support a '[whatever the current tier is], Likely Low 1-C'.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

SO current vote tally.

Disagree @Reiner04, @Firestorm808 (Both are the two staff with knowledge of the verse.)
Agree @FinePoint (would support a likely rating)

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

SO current vote tally.

Disagree @Reiner04, @Firestorm808 (Both are the two staff with knowledge of the verse.)
Agree @FinePoint (would support a likely rating)

Reiner aren't knowledge members of Ben 10 anymore...

 

[Reiner04]

Reiner aren't knowledge members of Ben 10 anymore...

 

[Firestorm808]

And having complete control over them would presumably be Low 1-C then.

I'm gathering this is more of a canonicity issue then? Like this comes from a crossover?

Okay. I reread the thread with all of this in mind.

It really sounds to me like they're talking about the same thing, though I acknowledge it's not in the most explicit way.

As a result, I think I'd support a '[whatever the current tier is], Likely Low 1-C'.

To reiterate my stance, yes, Generator Rex and Ben 10 share the same cosmology. However, the scope of their interaction is drastically different.

In Generator Rex, they use the phrases "timestream" and "fabric of the universe" but the characters are only interacting with their own timeline, IE: 1 Timeline.

The proposal then jumps to that the Omega Nanites can affect an uncountable number of timelines.

I do not see enough justification to say that the Meta Nanites can affect uncountably infinite timelines based on the interaction from just one timeline.

 

[Hellformer]

To reiterate my stance, yes, Generator Rex and Ben 10 share the same cosmology. However, the scope of their interaction is drastically different.

In Generator Rex, they use the phrases "timestream" and "fabric of the universe" but the characters are only interacting with their own timeline, IE: 1 Timeline.

The proposal then jumps to that the Omega Nanites can affect an uncountable number of timelines.

I do not see enough justification to say that the Meta Nanites can affect uncountably infinite timelines based on the interaction from just one timeline.

Summarizing my arguments:

1. Timestream in both the series erases certain character who is the root cause for altering the history. Example: Van Kleiss and Elena
2. Time is described like a river (Physical description) Example: As explained by Van Kleiss and Paradox
3. In order to access the timestream, one can possess FTL time travel ability. Example: Timebeasts and Breach.

1 term, 3 aligning factors, yet I don't understand how they're supposed to be different.

@FinePoint Kindly read the arguments from both the sides and then give a solid opinion.