-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
how Layers n Greater work
- Thread starter mal
- Start date
- 239
- 43
More context would be useful.
- 623
- 114
- Thread starter
- #3
no context yet. im just asking how can u get greater+layers+above baseline haxes.
- 4,880
- 2,172
Greater are for a same abilitie that ir more powerful than that previously mentioned. For example if you have a key saying he has enhanced senses but he grows more powerful so in a secind key he would have "Greater enhanced senses"
Layers is more complicated, a layer happens when someone who was previously immune to that ability gets then affected by the same ability tgat became more powerful. For example character A has mind manipulation and character B is not affected by A's mind manipulation so then character A becames more powerful and surpasses character B's resistance, then character A would have 1 layer of mind manipulation.
Layers is more complicated, a layer happens when someone who was previously immune to that ability gets then affected by the same ability tgat became more powerful. For example character A has mind manipulation and character B is not affected by A's mind manipulation so then character A becames more powerful and surpasses character B's resistance, then character A would have 1 layer of mind manipulation.
- 239
- 43
It depends on what you mean by “greater.” If you mean it in terms of power, then it refers to having abilities with greater feats or impact.
A layer generally means having an ability that works on characters who have resistance to the same ability.
Example:
A character with reality-warping that affects MacroCosmic (or multiversal) universes rather than a regular 4D universe.
The other one, a higher-layered character’s reality-warping can affect another character who is immune to ordinary reality-warping.
- 623
- 114
- Thread starter
- #7
so lets say My verse cosmology have "layers" not like umineko where theres R>F layers.just the verse have lower n higher world. n higher world are stronger than the lower layers.
so if Char A who existed in the highest layers goes down to lowest layers n started going to the higher layers,will he get greater/layers/higher degree hax if he affected the peoples from the higher layer even though his power came from the higher layers
Last edited:
- 20,535
- 15,206
Layer is basically... An ability that's evolved or transcended but hasn't actually changed in how it functions
So for example a 5000 degrees fire < layered 5000 degrees fire... If you can resist 5000 degrees fire... You won't be able to resist the layered one, unless you have a layered resistance of that ability also
Basically you can think like; layers always goes from 1 -> 2 -> 3, and potences only ever goes 0.0134 -> 0.5 -> 0.6, unable to ever reach "1" unless the potency is infinite or something (if something is infinite you must add another higher "infinite" value for it to be affected and that's basically how layers also function)
Potencies normally does not ever effect layers
However If the higher world are stronger not based on dimensionality to the lower world... Then that can be an overall layer for the higher world people
But for example if the highest layer goes down and beats a 9 layer person, then the people from the higher world would get 10 layers, instead of the previous 8 they had because of more showings that wasn't shown/known to us before
So for example a 5000 degrees fire < layered 5000 degrees fire... If you can resist 5000 degrees fire... You won't be able to resist the layered one, unless you have a layered resistance of that ability also
Basically you can think like; layers always goes from 1 -> 2 -> 3, and potences only ever goes 0.0134 -> 0.5 -> 0.6, unable to ever reach "1" unless the potency is infinite or something (if something is infinite you must add another higher "infinite" value for it to be affected and that's basically how layers also function)
Potencies normally does not ever effect layers
This seems more like higher dimensionality.. Which isn't really a layer I think... Only functions similar to it
However If the higher world are stronger not based on dimensionality to the lower world... Then that can be an overall layer for the higher world people
No... If he the highest known layers are like 8... Him going against layer 2's and above, up to 8, that won't effect the highest layer.. You're just overpowering lower counting layers
But for example if the highest layer goes down and beats a 9 layer person, then the people from the higher world would get 10 layers, instead of the previous 8 they had because of more showings that wasn't shown/known to us before
- 623
- 114
- Thread starter
- #9
lets say Char A power come from layers 10. if he go down to layers 1 and affected Char B in Layers 2-9 then he shouldnt get Greater/Layers hax?
ShakeResounding
He/Him- 10,416
- 11,177
You're fundamentally misunderstanding what Layers are. Layers as you've asked are a metric for hax, not for AP or higher worlds.
Having superior AP doesn't mean you have superior layers by default. It requires showings of people bypassing a hax resistance, so somebody who succesfully use Mind Control on a person who resists it would get 1 Layer for their Mind Control.
Just because somebody comes from a "higher world" does NOT mean they get higher layers unless the verse explicitly mentions such a function.
Terms like "Greater" and "Enhanced" are basically just interchangeable, meant to showcase the improvement upon an ability. For example, Greater/Enhanced Acrobatics means the same thing.
- 3,142
- 3,172
do layers work like that with temperature?
- 9,604
- 10,319
There are no layers for quantifiable shit. Its reserved for abilities where you can't qantify the difference in potency because no real life measurement exist. 6000 degrees of heat pops fire resistance tanking heat belows that.
- 20,535
- 15,206
No, because he already has a greater layered hax against them…
Layers work like that with any ability
- 9,604
- 10,319
They don't.
"Moreover, layering should not be thought of as applying to abilities which intuitively can be overcome with magnitude, such as heat resistance or analytical prediction. For instance, it is not layered fire manipulation to burn someone with a heat source hotter than they can withstand."
- 20,535
- 15,206
That's talking about potency... How just because they used hotter flames than they can withstand, doesn't mean it's a layer
Legit what I already said... The "potency" I'm talking about is the "magnitude" the page is talking about
If the fire manipulation with the same heat that they resisted prior, burnt them, then the ability becomes layered
Last edited:
- 9,604
- 10,319
- 20,535
- 15,206
yes.. Read the page carefully, top to bottom???
- 9,604
- 10,319
What is your point exactly. Please enlight me. Because the page literally says that layers do not apply to abilities with measureable properties. You are not supposed to layer fire manipulation
- 6,640
- 3,540
If the Fire Manip with the same temperature burns the opponent later on, it becomes a layered ability
- 9,604
- 10,319
It does not. By the literal rules it does not. Either the resistance got weaker or the fire got hotter, but we do not layer abilities with measureable potency. The "layering" in question is literally the heat scale of your choice.
- 20,535
- 15,206
yee that's basically what I said
No, it says layering should not be thought of as applying to abilities that can be overcome with magnitude... For instance using heat hotter than they can withstand
- 6,640
- 3,540
The rule never says this
Keyword "Measureable potency"
No
- 9,604
- 10,319
It literally does.
...Fire is not measureable anymore??
...Do you understand what this means...?
- 20,535
- 15,206
Yes?
It doesn't tho...
Layering is the ability to break through resistances to one's ability/hax. Successfully using an ability against a resistant character means that the ability is "layered." Further, resisting a layered ability is an indication of layered resistance, so on and so forth.
which this literally is:
So for example a 5000 degrees fire < layered 5000 degrees fire... If you can resist 5000 degrees fire... You won't be able to resist the layered one, unless you have a layered resistance of that ability also
This specific texts explain how you shouldn't think of applying layers to abilities that can be intuitively overcome with magnitude = For instance, it is not layered fire manipulation to burn someone with a heat source hotter than they can withstand.
The reason for that statement is because of the statement before that
- 9,604
- 10,319
This is going to be my last post on this matter. I have already asked a staff member to clarify our rules.
Oxford definition of "to think of as":
"to consider someone or something in a particular way"
You dont then
Now read it as a hole text.
So is a 5001 degree fire < or > to a "layered" 5000 degree resistance? 5050? 5100? 5500? 6000?
I genuinly can't believe how you're trying to play the semantics card when every other person would understand what the sentence exactly implies, but okay, lets play it.
Oxford definition of "to think of as":
"to consider someone or something in a particular way"
No, the reason for that statement is literally explaining that this does not apply to abilities with measureable potency.
- 6,640
- 3,540
- 20,535
- 15,206
how am I play semantics when before I even knew of the layering page, I was under the same belief
I have... Multiple times, which is why I explained the whole text in my comment
5001 degree fire would work as it is then a "different" ability to what it was before
Meaning it's > to your layered resistance, your resistance only comes from a specific layered potency
Notice how you have to ignore everything else for yours to make sense...? It literally does not say what you just said and is removing context
Don't really have the time right now to discuss or explain this with you but yee, bye... Maybe someone else will
- 3,142
- 3,172
Can yall name a single example where fire/cold/temp manipulation had layers on this site
- 20,535
- 15,206
- 1,238
- 1,151
To be clear, I don't know if something like fire manipulation can have layers and I won't be making any claims about it. However, the 5000 degree example is really confusing. I think a better example would be as follows:
Character A is immune to all forms of fire and can withstand any temperature without issue. Character B has a 300 degree fire ability that burns Character A anyways (without any other reasoning or hax). Character B thus has 'layered' fire manipulation.
A bit extreme, but I think this makes it easier to understand how a character can have layered fire manipulation.
Again, I do not know if fire manipulation or abilities like it can have layers, this is just supposed to be a better example (hopefully it is a better example)
Character A is immune to all forms of fire and can withstand any temperature without issue. Character B has a 300 degree fire ability that burns Character A anyways (without any other reasoning or hax). Character B thus has 'layered' fire manipulation.
A bit extreme, but I think this makes it easier to understand how a character can have layered fire manipulation.
Again, I do not know if fire manipulation or abilities like it can have layers, this is just supposed to be a better example (hopefully it is a better example)
- 239
- 43
I mean, if it was enchanted or in specific cases, like some magical fire i think it can be layered. Other than that, no
- 6,640
- 3,540
Explain how a situation like this doesn't work as layers
Zabazab
Any/All- 6,612
- 9,897
I may argue that this hypothetical enchanted fire that explicitly burns things regardless of fire or temperature resistance (maybe something like Priscilla Barielle's Yang Sword) would just have an additional ability beyond fire manipulation which would require a resistance, like durability negation or magic, rather than granting fire manipulation a layer.
But since it's hypothetical, I won't.
Volts are a measurable value and therefore cannot be layered. 10,000 volts is 10,000 volts.
- 6,640
- 3,540
Doesn't contradict the situation
Why did the wiki accept stuff such as Haki as layered then?
Zabazab
Any/All- 6,612
- 9,897
It would "contradict the situation."
I do not follow One Piece, so I don't know the context. Maybe they predate the rules with layering measurable abilities, I wouldn't know. If there are some pages with layered fire or layered electricity, then I'd say they're probably wrong. Not everything that's on character pages is correct, that's why we have CRTs.
- 1,549
- 591
Only applicable when a said source of measurable value is stronger than another, like 90000000 volts and 10 000 volts. Nothing is said about 2 abilities having the exact same value
Arkenis
They/Them- 25,201
- 13,008
Haki isn't measured like temp or volts for one, but just go ask in the OP thread, someone will explain.
- 20,535
- 15,206
Sorry but you're just wrong, like lightning for example... If the previous lighting ability (meant to be normal lightning) works after not having worked without it becoming stronger (the literally thing that page says does not mean layer), by definition and default... The ability would have been layered, NOTHING ELSE
how can you say "explicitly states" when it literally doesn't?
They even imply fire manipulation can be layered but just not via that reasoning
Fire manipulation is also on the wiki classified as an ability... Layers work on ability/hax in general as the top already says
So if someone has soul manipulation that drags their soul with 500 kg (potency value of said ability), someone is able to resist that and then couldn't anymore without it increasing in potency (same 500 kg force), it would legit just be layered... The ability itself has not changed, the ability has only been layered by something for it to now work again... Legit working as any layers work... Or the way layers originally even work to begin with
Any ability can have and basically does have "measurable value", you're basically suggesting all abilities wouldn't be layers if it doesn't work just because it has a measurable value
There's no difference with that example and the example I had the first time
- 20,535
- 15,206
Also things I've said on this thread are already something we've discussed on, with 2 admins being in on the conversation about it being a thing
Similar threads
