• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Nasuverse Discussion Board (New Forum)

Apotheosis69 said:
Surely it'll have the Tiers that they scale too and a Summary as to why.
Click to expand...
Yeah this would be the tiers

The Universe - High 1-B, The Moon Cell - 1-AImaginary Number Space - 1-A+Reverse Side of the World - High 1-AAvalon - High 1-AHierarchy of Universes - Far higher High 1-AThrone of Heroes - Far higher into High 1-A, Outer Gods, Divine Spirits Realms and Ultimate Ones - Far higher into High 1-A, The Origins -H1A plus probably, ( ) 0

BUT problem is this can mess up the ongoing CRT and the ongoing cosmo re scale. So unless someone can fact check this I won't make it
 
Maniaunavailable said:
Yeah this would be the tiers

The Universe - High 1-B, The Moon Cell - 1-AImaginary Number Space - 1-A+Reverse Side of the World - High 1-A
Click to expand...
This makes me curious, since I remember the INS event in FGO mentions "ends of all logical coordinates". Seems like that might be something... but we'll just have to wait for Shin and the others with their Nasuverse rework blogs.
 
Maniaunavailable said:
Yeah this would be the tiers

The Universe - High 1-B, The Moon Cell - 1-AImaginary Number Space - 1-A+Reverse Side of the World - High 1-AAvalon - High 1-AHierarchy of Universes - Far higher High 1-AThrone of Heroes - Far higher into High 1-A, Outer Gods, Divine Spirits Realms and Ultimate Ones - Far higher into High 1-A, The Origins -H1A plus probably, ( ) 0

BUT problem is this can mess up the ongoing CRT and the ongoing cosmo re scale. So unless someone can fact check this I won't make it
Click to expand...
The wank is crazy without any justification

Yeah it needs to be fact checked
 
Honestly, if you want I can see where Exactly in 1-A and High 1-A does it scale to. In terms of Layers, and even Meta-Extensioned Hierarchies.

Have done World of Darkness and soon Journey to the West.


Why do I keep givin myself more tasks...
 
Maniaunavailable said:
The Universe - High 1-B, The Moon Cell - 1-AImaginary Number Space - 1-A+Reverse Side of the World - High 1-AAvalon - High 1-AHierarchy of Universes - Far higher High 1-AThrone of Heroes - Far higher into High 1-A, Outer Gods, Divine Spirits Realms and Ultimate Ones - Far higher into High 1-A, The Origins -H1A plus probably, ( ) 0
Click to expand...
High 1-A Avalon
Click to expand...
Well, i guess, i have turned from Emiya Shirou into Archer, time to correct past mistakes
 
Maniaunavailable said:
Yeah this would be the tiers

The Universe - High 1-B, The Moon Cell - 1-A Imaginary Number Space - 1-A+ Reverse Side of the World - High 1-A Avalon - High 1-A Hierarchy of Universes - Far higher High 1-A Throne of Heroes - Far higher into High 1-A, Outer Gods, Divine Spirits Realms and Ultimate Ones - Far higher into High 1-A, The Origins -High 1-A plus probably, (「　」 ) 0
Click to expand...
Cool
 
Nasuverse should have been like this. If it was accepted, trust me bro, this will be the best verse on this wiki like we are going to have hundreds of High 1-A keys on each servant in the verse.
 
Maniaunavailable said:
The Universe - High 1-B, The Moon Cell - 1-AImaginary Number Space - 1-A+Reverse Side of the World - High 1-AAvalon - High 1-AHierarchy of Universes - Far higher High 1-AThrone of Heroes - Far higher into High 1-A, Outer Gods, Divine Spirits Realms and Ultimate Ones - Far higher into High 1-A, The Origins -H1A plus probably, ( ) 0
Click to expand...
Wow
 
Elesia011 said:
Are you sure about 2025? Because I don’t want to say it, but we’re already at the end of the year.

I am at least fairly confident about my scalings, yet one person can never hope to defeat an army. It would have been better if all verse supporters were on the same page because, honestly, the fact that we have a cosmology page doesn’t automatically mean that the Nasuverse drama arcs will end. I will follow your advice and start working, just hoping I can be of help when it counts.
Click to expand...
Someone said the page won't come till 2026...

 
Maniaunavailable said:
Yeah this would be the tiers

The Universe - High 1-B, The Moon Cell - 1-AImaginary Number Space - 1-A+Reverse Side of the World - High 1-AAvalon - High 1-AHierarchy of Universes - Far higher High 1-AThrone of Heroes - Far higher into High 1-A, Outer Gods, Divine Spirits Realms and Ultimate Ones - Far higher into High 1-A, The Origins -H1A plus probably, ( ) 0

BUT problem is this can mess up the ongoing CRT and the ongoing cosmo re scale. So unless someone can fact check this I won't make it
Click to expand...
This could work only if that Fate extra R>F feat for higher dimensions get accepted
Without that my takes would be
Universe High 1-B
Mooncell 1-A
INS 1-A
Throne of heroes 1-A - possibly higher
Outer gods 1-A
Deeper layers like Avalon High 1-A
Root High 1-A+
Root void 0
As long as that 1-A for INS holds firmly, I think I can pull this framework out without pushing into theosophical theories for any realm other than the root itself
 
Elesia011 said:
This could work only if that Fate extra R>F feat for higher dimensions get accepted
Without that my takes would be
Universe High 1-B
Mooncell 1-A
INS 1-A
Throne of heroes 1-A - possibly higher
Outer gods 1-A
Deeper layers like Avalon High 1-A
Root High 1-A+
Root void 0
As long as that 1-A for INS holds firmly, I think I can pull this framework out without pushing into theosophical theories for any realm other than the root itself
Click to expand...
Outer Gods and Thrones of Heroes below Avalon?

Which is fine but I usually see people put Outer Gods and TOH above Avalon cuz they are outside of the planet

But yeah it should work if INS is 1A
 
LilyNakahara said:
Outer Gods and Thrones of Heroes below Avalon?

Which is fine but I usually see people put Outer Gods and TOH above Avalon cuz they are outside of the planet

But yeah it should work if INS is 1A
Click to expand...
I won't arbitrarily put anything in a position I can't consistently backup, specifically for the throne, it is by all means at least 1-A, but I can't use that on it's own unlike the INS
I can put Avalon High 1-A but assuming that TOH juste scales higher or equal to it via chain scale may weaken the conceptual base of the points I have in the head so I better just leave out extrapolations
For the other gods now, I can't properly decide what to do about them, I need to refer back to Gilles and Salem to see but iirc they are physical beings which aren't conceptually indestructible or something along that. I will just see their case along the way, but the only thing I can confidently say is that as long as the INS is 1-A, I can prove Avalon is high 1-A
I won't take the whole cosmology as something strictly linear hence focusing more on inverse feats and eventually chain scale later in other to minimize controversy
I don't aim for maximum scalings but more of something consistent and robust on their own
That thing of chain scale means that you can also chain debunk

Ultimately either it the TOH, The Outer Gods, The INS or even Avalon, these are all realms outside the universe (human worlds and all its parallel worlds) as whole
 
Vietthai96 said:
Saying Avalon is High 1-A despite it is verbally stated to be 6-dimensional is crazy, ngl
Click to expand...
INS is a 4D space yet somehow R>F on the base physical world, 6D is just a word that doesn't limit any further interpretations as long as there are arguments for it in accordance to the wiki standards
Please check this comment I earlier made and share input, the argument is that you can be stated to be 6D but the gap amongst every dimensions isn't limited to some additional amount of spatial axis
Elesia011 said:
I made use of that scan to boost the INS/Reverside compared to the material human world
The foundation of INS lies in its composition of imaginary numbers, which are orthogonal to the real numbers defining material reality. This non-intersection is not a quantitative increase in dimensions but a qualitative separation, where INS exists as a realm inaccessible to real-number physics. The Imaginary Scramble event describes INS (Void Space) as an unobservable domain where physical laws are inapplicable, achieving limitless possibilities through its opacity. Additionally, INS exhibits a timeless nature where a single moment spans eternity, transcending spatiotemporal frameworks
Evidence supporting this setup includes skadi describing the INS as such : "If we consider this place as imaginary numbers and ourselves as real numbers, then real numbers and imaginary numbers normally never intersect."Mash claims that "Time DOESN’T go on" indicates a suspension of linear progression while God Arjuna or were it pepe ? notes "A single moment spans an eternity," suggesting an eternal present. From Imaginary Scramble’s Opening Act: "The Reverse Side of the World, is a completely opaque domain where not even established laws of physics can be glimpsed, achieves limitless possibilities through unobservability, unlike primordial chaos which mixes elements."
Thus, the non-intersection of real and imaginary numbers, INS’s unobservable opacity, and its timeless eternal present establish it as a qualitatively transcendent realm beyond real-number physics, tending toward a 1-A classification.
Building on this transcendence, INS encompasses all lower realities as fragile, dependent constructs, often depicted as "bubbles" or transient splits emerging from its primordial void. These realities are not co-equal but derive their existence from INS, which serves as their encompassing source. The Imaginary Scramble event portrays INS as the "unknowable chaos" from which realities diverge, fulfilling 1-A’s requirement that lower structures are projections of a higher reality.
Sakura’s dialogue illustrates this: "Please think of this school building as something like a bubble floating on the far side of the moon. If the bubble disappears, you will be swallowed by the imaginary space and vanish, or rather, you will wander eternally as an 'indeterminate random number." Lord El Melloi Case Files adds: "The world looked like bubbles... Masses of bubbles piled up... Burst as they disappeared... An instant (The Planck Time) was a lifetime, and an equal number of universes burst and disappeared." From Imaginary Scramble Act One (1/2): "These realities derives existence from INS, which serves as encompassing medium, with their formation is triggered by the act of observation collapsing it's «unknowable chaos» into differentiated states"
It is noteworthy to be aware of the fact that the INS is the predating primordial nothingness from which life was born

The portrayal of realities as bubbles and splits from INS’s chaotic void confirms their dependent, projected status within its encompassing domain, supporting 1-A englobement.
This dependency naturally leads to INS’s capacity to nullify lower realities by reducing them to insignificance or fictional states upon interaction. This is evident in the erosion into "foam" or "indeterminate random numbers," the reconstruction of the Far Side as a "fictional pitfall," and the annihilation from observation in Imaginary Scramble. The phasing between "truth and fiction" (Hippogriff NP) supports a Reality-Fiction (R>F) transcendence, where lower realities are treated as fictional constructs from INS’s perspective.
Kiara warns: "Without Sakura, we might have been expelled into the imaginary number space and vanished into foam by now." The previous Lord El Melloi scan states: "No matter how you split it apart(the world), no matter how thin it grew, it never disappeared... but it had no meaning at all." Cursed Cutting Crater (CCC) describes: "A cursed pit that bores out reality... erodes space into imaginary space, a curse that consumes reality... reconstructed as a fictional pitfall of spiritrons... wipes out dimensions along with the target." Hippogriff NP enables: "Phases between truth and fiction," accessing a non-physical soul realm" (Reverse Side). Imaginary Scramble Act One (1/2) warns: "Observation of INS causes bugging out, leading to madness or annihilation: Either we go completely mad, or the world around us does... total annihilation." Act Two (1/4) notes: "Van Gogh’s NP creates mass from nothing, impossible in reality but sourced from INS."
INS’s erosion into foam, fictional pitfalls, and annihilation from observation establish R>F transcendence, reducing lower realities to insignificant or fictional states.
This nullification ties directly into INS’s transcendence over all dimensional hierarchies. INS exists as an adimensional void predating reality, where spatial measurements are illusory or imposed. It rejects depth and erases dimensions, rendering lower realities insignificant. As the "root" of creation and a pre-human Reverse Side domain, INS surpasses even infinite-dimensional frameworks.
CCC states: "The goddess who is the mother of earth mother goddesses that created earth is, in other words, the root that created all creation... Through her authority, BB quantifies nothingness (pre-life state) and distorts time/causality via gravitational interference... wipes out dimensions along with the target." Hippogriff NP glimpses: "An unreachable, non-physical Reverse Side, tied to INS as a higher dimensional space within the pre-human void." Early lostbelt 4 scans I provided clarified INS: "The rift between worlds... inside of nothingness and a space outside the universe." Imaginary Scramble Act Two (1/4) clarifies: "INS has no concept of depth and rejects any measurement of depth. The sense of depth we have here now is illusory Normally no ground/obstacles; tampered to form reefs."

Act One (1/2) adds: "An insurmountable gap were reality and void cannot interact," and "unobservability" rejects physics, implying adimensionality.
INS’s rejection of depth, erasure of dimensions, and pre-reality status as an unobservable void confirm its adimensional transcendence over all dimensional hierarchies, a realm of truth opposed to the fictional material reality composed of real numbers shouldn't warrant 1-A ?
Click to expand...
 
Elesia011 said:
I won't arbitrarily put anything in a position I can't consistently backup, specifically for the throne, it is by all means at least 1-A, but I can't use that on it's own unlike the INS
I can put Avalon High 1-A but assuming that TOH juste scales higher or equal to it via chain scale may weaken the conceptual base of the points I have in the head so I better just leave out extrapolations
For the other gods now, I can't properly decide what to do about them, I need to refer back to Gilles and Salem to see but iirc they are physical beings which aren't conceptually indestructible or something along that. I will just see their case along the way, but the only thing I can confidently say is that as long as the INS is 1-A, I can prove Avalon is high 1-A
I won't take the whole cosmology as something strictly linear hence focusing more on inverse feats and eventually chain scale later in other to minimize controversy
I don't aim for maximum scalings but more of something consistent and robust on their own
That thing of chain scale means that you can also chain debunk

Ultimately either it the TOH, The Outer Gods, The INS or even Avalon, these are all realms outside the universe (human worlds and all its parallel worlds) as whole
Click to expand...
Can you give me your discord?(If you can, ofc you dont have to do it)

It would be helpful
 
I didn't even see any R > F transendence at 1-A level, let alone High 1-A for Avalon. Like, idk why you could reach the conclusion that INS is something at 1-A level while all statement said about the imaginary number and thing, and the R - F statement isn't even R > F Transcendence, you are too focused on the word truth and fiction in the scan an automatically think they must be 1-A, metaphor statement exists lol

There is also a multiple anti-feats present like Reverse Side of World is literally under Human World texture, Human texture is the outermost layer of the Planet, then down is the Reverse Side, then Avalon. Unless you want to claim High 1-A Earth. The 6-dimensional statement of Avalon, you can't just handwave it aways and say it could be High 1-A dimension, which is a claim that need extraordinary evidence

Anyway, i don't have much time for this, but we can debate this when you make a CRT for this
 
Vietthai96 said:
I didn't even see any R > F transendence at 1-A level, let alone High 1-A for Avalon. Like, idk why you could reach the conclusion that INS is something at 1-A level while all statement said about the imaginary number and thing, and the R - F statement isn't even R > F Transcendence, you are too focused on the word truth and fiction in the scan an automatically think they must be 1-A, metaphor statement exists lol

There is also a multiple anti-feats present like Reverse Side of World is literally under Human World texture, Human texture is the outermost layer of the Planet, then down is the Reverse Side, then Avalon. Unless you want to claim High 1-A Earth. The 6-dimensional statement of Avalon, you can't just handwave it aways and say it could be High 1-A dimension, which is a claim that need extraordinary evidence

Anyway, i don't have much time for this, but we can debate this when you make a CRT for this
Click to expand...
First off, the "truth and fiction" from Hippogriff NP isn’t just a fancy metaphor unless you have basis to backup that as it is, meanwhile the converse is backed by solid context. CCC calls out INS reconstructing realities into a "fictional pitfall of spiritrons" that "wipes out dimensions," and the lord el melloi scan says stuff like "no meaning" at all for the physical worlds after they burst, pointing to a real drop in ontological status. The hippogriff phasing ties to the Reverse Side as a "non-physical soul realm," hinting at a layer where physical reality gets downgraded, which stacks up to R>F transcendence at 1-A when you add the dimensional erasure.

The bubble thing might look like breaking apart, but that’s the point Sakura’s line about vanishing into "indeterminate random numbers" and Imaginary Scramble’s "total annihilation" from observation show INS isn’t just a passive backdrop. It’s the medium those bubbles pop out of, and when they go, they don’t just fade, they collapse into nothing meaningful, suggesting INS holds the reins as the source, not just a witness.

Now, the Reverse Side being under the Human World texture sounds like a hierarchy at first. But CCC describes the INS as the "root that created all creation" and Imaginary Scramble’s speaks of an "insurmountable gap" between reality and void flip that. It’s not a spatially below the human world like living literally underground" it’s a metaphysical hideaway, a pre-human void that birthed everything, not a layer you can stack and here I don't speak about multiple statements describing the INS as being outside the universe itself. The texture idea might imply a surface-level cover, but INS’s unobservable nature and rejection of the concept of depth mean it’s not playing by normal dimensional rules.

For the Avalon being High 1-A, that's just a project and nothing concrete here, the comment I quoted where evidence showing that the reverside on it's own is not a spatial extension of any physical reality meanwhile showing ontology over the physical world.
 
Last edited:
Elesia011 said:
First off, the "truth and fiction" from Hippogriff NP isn’t just a fancy metaphor unless you have basis to backup that as it is, meanwhile the converse is backed by solid context. CCC calls out INS reconstructing realities into a "fictional pitfall of spiritrons" that "wipes out dimensions," and the lord el melloi scan says stuff like "no meaning" at all for the physical worlds after they burst, pointing to a real drop in ontological status. The hippogriff phasing ties to the Reverse Side as a "non-physical soul realm," hinting at a layer where physical reality gets downgraded, which stacks up to R>F transcendence at 1-A when you add the dimensional erasure.

The bubble thing might look like breaking apart, but that’s the point Sakura’s line about vanishing into "indeterminate random numbers" and Imaginary Scramble’s "total annihilation" from observation show INS isn’t just a passive backdrop. It’s the medium those bubbles pop out of, and when they go, they don’t just fade, they collapse into nothing meaningful, suggesting INS holds the reins as the source, not just a witness.

Now, the Reverse Side being under the Human World texture sounds like a hierarchy at first. But CCC describes the INS as the "root that created all creation" and Imaginary Scramble’s speaks of an "insurmountable gap" between reality and void flip that. It’s not a spatially below the human world like living literally underground" it’s a metaphysical hideaway, a pre-human void that birthed everything, not a layer you can stack and here I don't speak about multiple statements describing the INS as being outside the universe itself. The texture idea might imply a surface-level cover, but INS’s unobservable nature and rejection of the concept of depth mean it’s not playing by normal dimensional rules.

For the Avalon being High 1-A, that's just a project and nothing concrete here, the comment I quoted where evidence showing that the reverside on it's own is not a spatial extension of any physical reality meanwhile showing ontology over the physical world.
Click to expand...

I think before the higher scaling stuff like H1A maybe you should try to get INS (or maybe Avalon?) to 1A

Because I would say there is almost enough basis for a good 1A Avalon scale
 
Why dont we just wait for those trying to update the profiles first to finish thay rather than trying to upgrade the verse. Its gonna be pointless doing that once the cosmology page gets released and looks far different from the upgrade tiers. I wouldnt suggest making a upgrade until Toxic and co finish with the verse update.

Also, High 1A Avalon seems wild to me ngl
 
LilyNakahara said:
I think before the higher scaling stuff like H1A maybe you should try to get INS (or maybe Avalon?) to 1A

Because I would say there is almost enough basis for a good 1A Avalon scale
Click to expand...
Don't worry, that is why the High 1-A stuffs is just still a project, you can't simply bridge to higher scalings if the previous rating is not solid enough to sustain the next.

Avalon being 1-A is the backup plan if INS 1-A is somehow consistently disproven.

I will try to strengthen the INS thing with some more scans into a sandbox for now

It would be of great help if potential antifeats could be highlighted out for me to see to which extend I can negate them.
 
Tdjwo said:
Why dont we just wait for those trying to update the profiles first to finish thay rather than trying to upgrade the verse. Its gonna be pointless doing that once the cosmology page gets released and looks far different from the upgrade tiers. I wouldnt suggest making a upgrade until Toxic and co finish with the verse update.

Also, High 1A Avalon seems wild to me ngl
Click to expand...
Just to clarify, we weren't working on an upgrade. We were simply exchanging ideas while waiting for the cosmology page to be finished. Could you take a look at my input on INS and provide some feedback?

The possibility of Avalon amounting to that much first of all depends on if I am biased or not in my input for the INS.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

ThiboGaleotti
About Fate/Stay Night and Fate/Grand Order
Replies
0
Views
1K
ThiboGaleotti
ThiboGaleotti
ThiboGaleotti
About Fate/Stay Night and Fate/Grand Order
Replies
5
Views
1K
ShinMaximillion
ShinMaximillion
HigashikataJobin
  • Locked
The Nasuverse Profiles Problem
2 3
Replies
98
Views
14K
Firestorm808
Firestorm808
CRIMPSUMPSKI2
  • Locked
[TYPE-MOON] Scorched Earth II
2
Replies
46
Views
10K
Catzlaflame
Catzlaflame
Firestorm808
Nasuverse - Profile Quality Control
2
Replies
44
Views
7K
DaReaperMan
DaReaperMan
Back
Top