Erza vs Sakura: Rematch

[Shadowslash125]

An unfortunate state but then the verse should be shelved for now so people don't use pages. I read FT supporters are practically nonexistent nowadays on the wiki so may never be updated.

It's one big problem (two for me)
1. The Fairy Tail verse is riddled with asspulls, CIS, PIS and a whole lot of shit that even brings other shonens to shame. Not only would it be a slog to go through for the sake of indexing, we'd likely have to weed out the bits that are not usable, although that can become manageable eventually to many others (me included).

2. I'm already supporting a verse that desperately needs revisions so that 90% of the outdated profiles can become usable again. I'd love to cash in and work on other verses, but my hands are full enough to the point I can only contribute the bare minimum.

Ok so you do realize damaging muscle tendons would severly cripple erza and make it impossible to move right?

The main point is that her dura neg cannot bypass Erza's armor. Even if she somehow hits her skin, what do you expect out of a person who can hurl herself high into the sky just to break a meteor with one finger while all her other bones were all broken? That's the shit that Sakura's dura neg damage can't even hope to achieve here.

Isn't shunshin a movement technique that literally every shinobi uses for high speed travel over long distances??? Even if we wanted to say sakura rarely did use it sakura isn't dumb and would see her trying to fly away out of range, shes smart enough to just use it anyway.

The keyword lies in travel. If everyone and their mothers use shunshin in combat, Shikaku and the others would've just jumped from konoha when the tailed beast bomb was coming their way. Only a small handful actually uses that in combat.
Nowhere did Sakura use shunshin in the appropriate situations. If she did, She could've boxed Sasori in the face. She could've been a better asset in the war. Stop treating it like it's some instant transmission that every ninja uses like they're in Dragon Ball.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Eh... Erza still stands more of a chance. So, I'll vote her.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Idk what you're even talking about atp.

If two people press themselves against each other and one of them has far higher LS, who's going to win

Yeah every ninja uses it for travel, most don't use it for blitzing unless they're really good at it like Minato or Shisui or they have an opening. Also Erza's armor has speed amps

Her sakura is only using it to close the distance, she isn't spaming it for the sake of blitzing her

If she's far away from her and knows she has to catch up to her she would use it

 

[Arkenis]

If two people press themselves against each other and one of them has far higher LS, who's going to win

Never brought up this scenario man, can you reread what I said again? All I said was Erza can fly.

If she's far away from her and knows she has to catch up to her she would use it

Sakura's literally used it that way lmao

 

[Delusionaltx2]

The main point is that her dura neg cannot bypass Erza's armor. Even if she somehow hits her skin, what do you expect out of a person who can hurl herself high into the sky just to break a meteor with one finger while all her other bones were all broken?

Literally when that happened she could only attack like one more time afterwards, if it reaches that point sakura basically wins

That's the shit that Sakura's dura neg damage can't even hope to achieve here.

Bones are primarily used for structural support, as far as moving goes that's mostly muscle which what sakura is damaging

The keyword lies in travel. If everyone and their mothers use shunshin in combat, Shikaku and the others would've just jumped from konoha when the tailed beast bomb was coming their way. Only a small handful actually uses that in combat.

So let me ask you a question. If sakura knows she can't catch her in travel without using shunshin and knows that if she gets to far away she's cooked why would she not use shunshin?

Nowhere did Sakura use shunshin in the appropriate situations. If she did, She could've boxed Sasori in the face.

This argument sucks for two reasons

1. Sasori also has shunshin

2. Sasori has insta incap poison, if she gets nicked she has to waste an antidote and they only had three in that fight iirc

She could've been a better asset in the war. Stop treating it like it's some instant transmission that every ninja uses like they're in Dragon Ball.

Most characters in the war both

1. Also have shunshin

2. Have BS precog

Both of which erza doesn't have here, stop applying that logic to this when it pretty clear it doesn't apply here

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Never brought up this scenario man, can you reread what I said again? All I said was Erza can fly.

That was an example explaining what I meant when I said sakura could just punch her right back down

Sakura's literally used it that way lmao

So what's stoping her from doing it here?

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Voting Erza. She has the ap advantage in base to base (Not really sure why Sakura scales to that Value or where it comes from) and has the advantage with sharp weaponry which is a big no no in Naruto

Edit: also regarding this how does erza even hit her?

As mentioned in the last thread Sakura could man over around dozens of puppets literally lunging at her from multiple different angles, how does erza hit her consistently

I don't think Sakura is gonna rush into MR with it's shortening life span thing, especially not in a 1v1 bout.

She'll use it eventually making it a mute point

Either way, not sure it's gonna help much with the Holy Hammer negating it's effects once she comes in contact with it since one touch from it negated Real Nightmares effects on everyone for the rest of the arc

Actually come to think of it, the reason why holy hammer works is because it negates bio hax which in this context negates regen

How would erza even know that the method of healing is from bio hax and use it? From her pov sakura is just healing

Byakugo amp only very slightly puts Sakura above Erza's ap

10 gigatons vs 15 gigatons is not exactly what I'd call slight

Even though Erza should be higher than 10.8 by a decent margin considering Wendy could match Erigor who performed the feat and Erza fought and defeated Cobra and scales to Natsu who defeated Midnight who is the strongest of the seis to which the gap becomes negligible at best

This isn't even acknowledging some of her other armors like the morning star armor to blind Sakura

Substitution

or just doing what she did against the A Class monster and using weight + adamantine armor to essentially shatter Sakura's arms

Which she can't do because class T physicals work like that

 

[Arkenis]

That was an example explaining what I meant when I said sakura could just punch her right back down

Sakura can't fly to get her down and Erza can just dodge.

So what's stoping her from doing it here?

I meant not used it. Sakura has never used shunshin to cover distance to get closer to someone. She is a close combat fighter and would rather run as most ninjas do than use shunshin to get close to somebody. Can't even tell the amount of times shunshin would've been the better thing to do for every ninja but instead they run. It's no surprise they didn't list all the times she used it in part 2 on her page because she's never done it.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Sakura can't fly to get her down

She can still jump really high to chase her

and Erza can just dodge.

That would be pretty difficult since she would be flying away from close range against a character with blitz amp in travel speed

I meant not used it. Sakura has never used shunshin to cover distance to get closer to someone

Well yeah because she either never had to or it literally didn't matter because the opponent also had shunshin

. She is a close combat fighter and would rather run as most ninjas do than use shunshin to get close to somebody.

Uhh that's kinda a contradiction? If she's close range she would want to initiate fights at close range not from a distance, maybe ur confusing that with pt 1 but this is part 2

Can't even tell the amount of times shunshin would've been the better thing to do for every ninja but instead they run. It's no surprise they didn't list all the times she used it in part 2 on her page because she's never done it.

Once again... literally everyone and their mama in naruto also has shunshin and are used to fighting other characers that have it so it wouldn't do anything wether she used it or not

 

[Arkenis]

She can still jump really high to chase her

Yea cuz that sounds real effective.

That would be pretty difficult since she would be flying away from close range against a character with blitz amp in travel speed

Unless she also has speed amps of her own...

Well yeah because she either never had to or it literally didn't matter because the opponent also had shunshin

Right in all her years of being a ninja she never had an opponent far away she needed to close the distance.

Uhh that's kinda a contradiction? If she's close range she would want to initiate fights at close range not from a distance, maybe ur confusing that with pt 1 but this is part 2

Nope you're just misunderstanding what I'm saying purposely. Sakura is a close combat fighter -> someone is far away -> she runs to them, she doesn't use shunshin.

Once again... literally everyone and their mama in naruto also has shunshin and are used to fighting other characers that have it so it wouldn't do anything wether she used it or not

It's not actively used in combat.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Yea cuz that sounds real effective.

Against someone who's in close range yea that would be

Unless she also has speed amps of her own...

That aren't blitz amps...

Right in all her years of being a ninja she never had an opponent far away she needed to close the distance.

That didn't also have shunshin or some answer to it

Nope you're just misunderstanding what I'm saying purposely. Sakura is a close combat fighter -> someone is far away -> she runs to them, she doesn't use shunshin.

So she wouldn't use shunshin to close the gap if her opponent is kilometers away and will instead just run at them at normal human speed... you're grossly underestimating Sakura's intelligence

It's not actively used in combat.

Yeah it's used for travel and her opponent is kilometers away also heading towards her as erza normally leads with close to mid ranged armours

 

[Arkenis]

Erza fra

 

[Arkenis]

So she wouldn't use shunshin to close the gap if her opponent is kilometers away and will instead just run at them at normal human speed... you're grossly underestimating Sakura's intelligence

OP says 100m. Why even argue something not part of this thread?

 

[DailyFairy]

Edit: also regarding this how does erza even hit her?

As mentioned in the last thread Sakura could man over around dozens of puppets literally lunging at her from multiple different angles, how does erza hit her consistently

Erza did the same with hundreds of needles being fired at her by Evergreen, I could ask how Sakura lands a hit on her as well with far less mobility with her many flying armors and being able to summon weapons from any spot she chooses around her opponent

She'll use it eventually making it a mute point

It doesn't tho. She's less likely to use it in any non war situation against 1 opponent. If she does it just gets deactivated by the hammer

Actually come to think of it, the reason why holy hammer works is because it negates bio hax which in this context negates regen

How would erza even know that the method of healing is from bio hax and use it? From her pov sakura is just healing

She uses it against Cobra without knowing its effects against poison dragon slayer magic. Cobra acknowledges this during his fight and was surprised she fought with it without knowing what it could do against his abilities. Her chances of pulling it out are more likely than not

10 gigatons vs 15 gigatons is not exactly what I'd call slight

The gap is 1.3888888889 with Byakugo. Base to base the gap is 2.511627907. Erza leads with being twice as strong and even with the amp, Erza can one shot the 10.8 characters who should be higher than 10.8 anyway

Substitution

She's just gonna substitute right away as she's blinded without a beat wasted to a spot to escape Erza? Mkay

Which she can't do because class T physicals work like that

She can tho? She's demonstrated that in combat when she comes across heavy blows

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

If two people press themselves against each other and one of them has far higher LS, who's going to win

Her sakura is only using it to close the distance, she isn't spaming it for the sake of blitzing her

If she's far away from her and knows she has to catch up to her she would use it

Whether or not Sakura's ability should be considered limited or normal because of this thread is beyond what I am willing to converse about, so don't reply back to me for this.

 

[Kaydee1648]

Is the argument really if Sakura, who was acutely regarded by Kakashi for her excellent chakra control, can use Shunshin?

Also any punch from Sakura is sending Erza to oblivion due to the LS difference

 

[Shadowslash125]

Literally when that happened she could only attack like one more time afterwards, if it reaches that point sakura basically wins

Now hold on a minute. I literally cannot remember any point where Sakura uses the chakra scalpel in combat, which seems to be taken word-for-word from Kabuto's profile. She has used it in surgeries and whatnot, but during fights? Nada, mate. Even the one supporter agrees with me on that front.

I'll just say as a Naruto supporter, the Sakura duraneg argument is straight ass. Sakura has quite literally never done anything even remotely close to killing or incapping a person through organ damage. And neither did Tsunade - the person who taught her that, or Kabuto - the one person who's medical skills rivaled Tsunades.

Hell canonically the actual 2 taijutsu techniques that can effectively harm the target through organs are gentle fist which is considered THE strongest taijutsu in Konoha which requires a byakugan and is so insanely rare that the hidden cloud literally COMMITTED WAR CRIMES ON CHILDREN FOR IT, and Frog Kata which is considered even superior to that and requires sage mode - something even Jiraya couldn't master. To say any medical ninja could replicate what these extremely rare and difficult techniques can do is pure bullshit. You're basically saying the Cloud could have just had someone learn medical ninjutsu but instead decided to almost start WW3 by kidnapping an innocent 3 year old girl…

This is the same as when yall brought up Katsuyu in the same sentence as you said something Erza only did a few times is "out of character for her". It's completely misleading and not nearly accurate to what Sakura can and does do in-character

Bones are primarily used for structural support, as far as moving goes that's mostly muscle which what sakura is damaging

Tell me, can you move your body if you have no functional bones? Except for the heart and tongue, muscles in your body require an anchor for motor functions, which the bones provide. Without it, you can't even breathe without your ribs supporting the diaphragm. Damaging muscle just makes things harder, and is not the be-all-end-all wincon y'all are thinking of.

So let me ask you a question. If sakura knows she can't catch her in travel without using shunshin and knows that if she gets to far away she's cooked why would she not use shunshin?

Shikaku and the others would've just jumped from konoha when the tailed beast bomb was coming their way

Let me fire you your question back. If they know they can escape the tailed beast bomb, why didn't they just shunshin out? The damage ultimately only hit the intel centre and killed those in it, rather than the rest of Konoha. Why go through a dramatic goodbye when they could've done what you said at any point?
Here's another question, why didn't Obito just shunshin out of Konan's million bombs?

This argument sucks for two reasons

1. Sasori also has shunshin

2. Sasori has insta incap poison, if she gets nicked she has to waste an antidote and they only had three in that fight iirc

Most characters in the war both

1. Also have shunshin

2. Have BS precog

1. Why didn't Sasori shunshin out of Sakura's punches? Why didn't he shunshin behind Chiyo and go 'nothing personal' on her?
1 (War edition). Why did everyone have to get saved from getting blown up by the ten tails beast bomb by Minato if they could just shunshin away?
2. Yes, the ten tails fission mooks have BS precog. Seems legit, wow. The only people with BS precog are Madara and Obito (and maybe the Ten Tails).

Both of which erza doesn't have here, stop applying that logic to this when it pretty clear it doesn't apply here

I mean, since you're considering shunshin to be something akin to instant transmission, then I have my rights to ask for times when, why and how they used shunshin in situations that should benefit them. This isn't the "no your argument sucks, you can't use it" kind of debate. Counter my shit with real debate, and don't fall to the pitfall that you blamed DragonZeroNova about.

Anyways, this match should be closed because nothing changes in this match to even warrant a rematch based on this part of VS Thread Rules:

Remaking an existing match listed on a profile should generally be avoided, but a "rematch" may be acceptable under certain conditions.

• Acceptable conditions include:
  • Character information fundamental to the debate has changed due to a CRT.
  • An important piece of information or context was missed entirely or excluded from the debate.
  • A core argument of the previous debate is deemed invalid for some reason.
  • A new argument which is fundamentally different from anything previously stated is brought up.
  • There is a possibility for new conditions for the fight which are significantly different and could make for a valid new conclusion.
• In some cases, even without a core or fundamental change, multiple modest but relevant changes can stack up to justify the match being made again.
• If a rematch is made because the previous match is deemed invalid for a logical reason, then the result of the rematch should replace the previous match on the profile. However, if both matches are valid but different (such as different conditions or keys), then they may both be listed with the differences specified.

And before you bombard me with shit like "oh these points haven't been brought up there", cry about it. Y'all couldn't accept the counterarguments thanks to the noticeable bias. Obviously, I'm not the paragon of unbiased debate, but this amount of bias makes me look like one.

I essentially wasted my time here when I could be elsewhere working on better things. Erza FRA or get this match closed, idc.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Also any punch from Sakura is sending Erza to oblivion due to the LS difference

Unless it's a motion that slowly uses lift/push against the opponents, punching and LS don't usually interact with each other. I tried that argument before, and it didn't work out.

 

[Arkenis]

Is the argument really if Sakura, who was acutely regarded by Kakashi for her excellent chakra control, can use Shunshin?

Also any punch from Sakura is sending Erza to oblivion due to the LS difference

No not at all. It's actually that even with that control, she usually doesn't use shunshin to travel far distances IN COMBAT. Sakura will run as most characters do in naruto. This is getting irritating because I've already pointed out Shunshin is not an inherent blitz and Erza has her own speed amps with her armor. I genuinely don't know why this is a point we're staying on.

 

[Shadowslash125]

I am mentioning you since I can't ping your ass

Dude, can we just get this closed? This post is just the same thread as the OG one without any differences.

 

[Mommyleona]

Is the argument really if Sakura, who was acutely regarded by Kakashi for her excellent chakra control, can use Shunshin?

no its argued how likely it is for sakura to use it

Also any punch from Sakura is sending Erza to oblivion due to the LS difference

"sending to oblivion" with a punch would require ap and striking strength, not LS

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Mereoleona victims

 

[Delusionaltx2]

OP says 100m. Why even argue something not part of this thread?

Ok let me rephrase that then

Yeah it's used for travel and her opponent is 100m away also heading towards her as erza normally leads with close to mid ranged armours

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Is the argument really if Sakura, who was acutely regarded by Kakashi for her excellent chakra control, can use Shunshin?

They're saying Sakura would see her opponent is100m away and wouldn't think to use shunshin...

 

[Mommyleona]

Mereoleona victims

HOLY W

 

[Kaydee1648]

No not at all. It's actually that even with that control, she usually doesn't use shunshin to travel far distances IN COMBAT

Sakura can perfectly control and send chakra at every segment of her body. Shunshin is literally just concentrating chakra at your feet, saying Sakura who has a better chakra control than Sasuke (who basically spams shunshin), won’t use shunshin when need to is pretty absurd.
And the “she has never use it” argument is pretty buns considering there are usually no indication of speed amps being used at times, while also considering most people Sakura fights are upclose. Seemingly, Sakura amplified movement speed could keep pace with the speed of her attack, which is also consistent with her OVA in storm series (which are canon)

"sending to oblivion" with a punch would require ap and striking strength, not LS

She can overcome the mass of Erza with the weight/force of her casual punches

 

[Mommyleona]

She can overcome the mass of Erza with the weight/force of her casual punches

This isnt LS, its literally just her punching while having an ap advantage lol

 

[Arkenis]

Ok let me rephrase that then

Yeah it's used for travel and her opponent is 100m away also heading towards her as erza normally leads with close to mid ranged armours

Why would she do that at the start of the fight instead of just running and using her chakra for strength.

Sakura can perfectly control and send chakra at every segment of her body. Shunshin is literally just concentrating chakra at your feet, saying Sakura who has a better chakra control than Sasuke (who basically spams shunshin), won’t use shunshin when need to is pretty absurd.

Never disagreed. Please read what I am saying.

And the “she has never use it” argument is pretty buns considering there are usually no indication of speed amps being used at times, while also considering most people Sakura fights are upclose. Seemingly, Sakura amplified movement speed could keep pace with the trajectory of her attack, which is also consistent with her OVA in storm series (which are canon)

She is jumping here, nothing implies she used shunshin.


Ya are just arguing to argue. Genuinely nothing is being said worth a response, just "Sakura taps into her out of her character ability and overwhelms with Class T punches" WTH DOES THAT EVEN MEAN???

 

[Shadowslash125]

For the record, this is an example of a punch with LS feat.

 

[Shadowslash125]

But seriously, can we actually just close this instead of entertaining them any longer?

 

[DailyFairy]

Erza has 5 votes in her favor. 2 more for grace an we can close it that way

 

[Mommyleona]

For the record, this is an example of a punch with LS feat.

Yeah, now thats what i call LS

But seriously, can we actually just close this instead of entertaining them any longer?

well, you need to ask a mod for that

 

[Arkenis]

Idek. Ignoring the shunshin or "Class T punches", Erza still has a better kit for dealing with Sakura's close combat fighting style and can easily deliver slashes with her sword or overwhelm with her multiple different armors

 

[Kaydee1648]

Never disagreed. Please read what I am saying.

I’m literally stating the narrative implication on how Sakura should be able to do something as basic as shunshin at BoS when needed, which is what y’all are trying to dismiss because apparently she has never started 100 meters away from her opponents.
You should give a valid reason on why she won’t be able to do such, or this isn’t worth being discussed.

She is jumping here, nothing implies she used shunshin.

If you agree that she can jump that fast, then you indirectly agree that she can concentrate chakra at her feet to amplify her speed (which is exactly what happened there) aka shunshin.

Edit: I linked a sakura OVA feat in my previous post.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Now hold on a minute. I literally cannot remember any point where Sakura uses the chakra scalpel in combat, which seems to be taken word-for-word from Kabuto's profile. She has used it in surgeries and whatnot, but during fights? Nada, mate. Even the one supporter agrees with me on that front.

Yeah which I responded to and agreed with them brought up the other arguments...

Tell me, can you move your body if you have no functional bones? Except for the heart and tongue, muscles in your body require an anchor for motor functions, which the bones provide. Without it, you can't even breathe without your ribs supporting the diaphragm. Damaging muscle just makes things harder, and is not the be-all-end-all wincon y'all are thinking of.

No because bones provide structure not movement,without bones you can't stand yes but this doesn't change the fact that without muscles you straight up can't move

Let me fire you your question back. If they know they can escape the tailed beast bomb, why didn't they just shunshin out? The damage ultimately only hit the intel centre and killed those in it, rather than the rest of Konoha. Why go through a dramatic goodbye when they could've done what you said at any point?

Because TBB scale above most average jonin in literally everything?

Here's another question, why didn't Obito just shunshin out of Konan's million bombs?

Because

1. Konans million paper bombs is massive and Obito is basically right at the bottom

2. Obito would get intercepted by her immediately in mid air where he can't do much if anything

3. Obito would have to make his legs tangible to actually use shunshin which he can't do because there's a million paper bombs exploding everywhere

1. Why didn't Sasori shunshin out of Sakura's punches?

Because she also has shunshin?

Why didn't he shunshin behind Chiyo and go 'nothing personal' on her?

Because chiyo has the two puppets that put sasoris one hundred puppets to shame?

1 (War edition). Why did everyone have to get saved from getting blown up by the ten tails beast bomb by Minato if they could just shunshin away?

Because TBB scale way higher than normal fodders in attack speed?

2. Yes, the ten tails fission mooks have BS precog. Seems legit, wow. The only people with BS precog are Madara and Obito (and maybe the Ten Tails).

Are we just ignoring that people like Naruto exist?

I mean, since you're considering shunshin to be something akin to instant transmission, then I have my rights to ask for times when, why and how they used shunshin in situations that should benefit them.

Because it doesn't benefit them

This isn't the "no your argument sucks, you can't use it" kind of debate. Counter my shit with real debate, and don't fall to the pitfall that you blamed DragonZeroNova about.

You brought up a ton of situations where shunshin would have done little to nothing and now your saying my argument sucks, make it make sense

Anyways, this match should be closed because nothing changes in this match to even warrant a rematch based on this part of VS Thread Rules:

And before you bombard me with shit like "oh these points haven't been brought up there", cry about it. Y'all couldn't accept the counterarguments thanks to the noticeable bias. Obviously, I'm not the paragon of unbiased debate, but this amount of bias makes me look like one.

I essentially wasted my time here when I could be elsewhere working on better things. Erza FRA or get this match closed, idc.

The whole reason this thread was made was because the only "counterarguments" brought up were

"Erza has a better arsenal" which was refuted by the fact that Sakura has more than enough feats to suggests she just dodges them all

And

"Erza has more skill" which was never proven

According to vsb rules you need actual reasoning to vote, erzas votes had none which is why this is happening

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Unless it's a motion that slowly uses lift/push against the opponents, punching and LS don't usually interact with each other. I tried that argument before, and it didn't work out.

Once again if we go beyond just them hitting each other it becomes L because Sakura is using her fist to push her into the ground

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Idek. Ignoring the shunshin or "Class T punches", Erza still has a better kit for dealing with Sakura's close combat fighting style and can easily deliver slashes with her sword or overwhelm with her multiple different armors

Literally the biggest reason why this thread was made was because it was established in the last thread that Sakura is more than capable of just dodging them all

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Why would she do that at the start of the fight instead of just running and using her chakra for strength.

Because as said countless times her opponent is really far away and she has no reason to traverse 100m at human lvl travel speed

Ya are just arguing to argue. Genuinely nothing is being said worth a response, just "Sakura taps into her out of her character ability and overwhelms with Class T punches" WTH DOES THAT EVEN MEAN???

It means after the initial impact she uses her fist to push her down why are we overcomplicating things?

The way your wording it your suggesting that we're saying the initial impact of her punches is class T which was never the argument stop implying things that were never said

 

[First_Witch]

Guys I think Ezra wins via Swans footwork technique

 

[Arkenis]

Like I've mentioned several times, even if Sakura did do Shunshin, it is not an inherent blitz amp and Erza has her own speed amps. So can we PLEASE drop this shunshin argument?