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Halo General Discussion Thread

I think we should have an Explanation page on Master Chief's profile kinda like in the Cobra Kai profiles that details exactly what improvements each suit has over the last.
 
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
Yeah, I just need to do the Campaign for Halo 5. In the meantime, we should discuss having an Explanation section to explain how Chief's suits are better than the previous ones.
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Do we really need that? We have the statement already explaining that the Gen 1 Mark VI is five times stronger than Mark V, just put that in the stats section.
 
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
Do we really need that? We have the statement already explaining that the Gen 1 Mark VI is five times stronger than Mark V, just put that in the stats section.
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Depends on if it would just affect AP and Durability. Many guidebooks and stuff mention a lot of little things that improve one suit over another. If it affects Resistances and stuff it would be needed. Also the claim that the Mark VI has twice as powerful shields as the Mark V isn't linked and I can't find that being stated anywhere.
 
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
Why are so many Halo guns 9-C? Stuff that can stomp Spartans or Promethean Knights like SAWs are still Street level for some reason
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Because that's exactly what the AP of guns that are literally just ordinary bullets are. And your other knit picks are just game mechanics.
 
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
The weapon... used almost exclusively to kill Prometheans... is 9-C?
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How often it is used in game isn't the part that is relevant. What is relevant is the statistics; particularly plugging the mass of the bullets individually and the muzzle velocity into a KE calculator. It uses the exact same type of Ammo that standard Assault Rifles use, which is the 7.62x51mm Nato, and same type of ammo also used IRL. And historically, guns like this existed since the 1940's that Halo lore even acknowledges that the same type of weapons have been used for hundreds of years.

But on to the event, it fires rounds that are 10 grams or 0.01 kg, their muzzle velocity ranges from 792 m/s to 856 m/s. Which KE calculator results in 3136 J to 3664 Joules respectively. Both of which are solid Street level range. And yes, as I said above, we tend to be much stricter about powerscaling rules when it comes to weapons/vehicles than we do characters fighting each other barehanded. Especially if the weapons and vehicles are literally intended to be based on real world counterparts. And the reason why we are is because of many other rules overlapping such as our Calc Stacking rules.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
How often it is used in game isn't the part that is relevant. What is relevant is the statistics; particularly plugging the mass of the bullets individually and the muzzle velocity into a KE calculator. It uses the exact same type of Ammo that standard Assault Rifles use, which is the 7.62x51mm Nato, and same type of ammo also used IRL. And historically, guns like this existed since the 1940's that Halo lore even acknowledges that the same type of weapons have been used for hundreds of years.

But on to the event, it fires rounds that are 10 grams or 0.01 kg, their muzzle velocity ranges from 792 m/s to 856 m/s. Which KE calculator results in 3136 J to 3664 Joules respectively. Both of which are solid Street level range. And yes, as I said above, we tend to be much stricter about powerscaling rules when it comes to weapons/vehicles than we do characters fighting each other barehanded. Especially if the weapons and vehicles are literally intended to be based on real world counterparts. And the reason why we are is because of many other rules overlapping such as our Calc Stacking rules.
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Huh. So why do guns in DOOM get to scale to who they can kill but Halo ones don't?
 
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
Huh. So why do guns in DOOM get to scale to who they can kill but Halo ones don't?
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Difference is DOOM guns are powered by Argent Plasma (Which isn't regular plasma from a RL sense, but an otherworldly, supernatural demonic energy source) thus making them far stronger than any real world gun. Plus, Firestorm founded details where Doom Slayer has the power to just make his guns stronger through some kind of anger. Don't know exact details though. Plus even then, there are some restrictions. It's technically possible to kill certain bosses with the pistol in game mechanics albeit it takes forever, but the pistol only is treated as comparable to more fodder enemies while BFG is more boss killer territory. Magic weapons or weapons made of super alloys such as Adamantium are the exceptions and not the normals.
 
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DarkDragonMedeus said:
Difference is DOOM guns are powered by Argent Plasma (Which isn't regular plasma from a RL sense, but an otherworldly, supernatural demonic energy source) thus making them far stronger than any real world gun. Plus, Firestorm founded details where Doom Slayer has the power to just make his guns stronger through some kind of anger. Don't know exact details though. Plus even then, there are some restrictions. It's technically possible to kill certain bosses with the pistol in game mechanics albeit it takes forever, but the pistol only is treated as comparable to more fodder enemies while BFG is more boss killer territory. Magic weapons or weapons made of super alloys such as Adamantium are the exceptions and not the normals.
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That only really applies to Eternal weapons. They have stuff like 9-A DOOM 1 weapons. Might I be able to have a look at the KE calculator you use?
 
Actually, looking into some guidebooks, I've found statements like the standard AR being able to "tear through a Spartan's energy shields" or similar things.
 
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
That only really applies to Eternal weapons. They have stuff like 9-A DOOM 1 weapons. Might I be able to have a look at the KE calculator you use?
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Actually, it really doesn't just apply to 2016, Eternal, and Dark Ages exclusively. A lot of more recent DOOM lore material overhauled the lore of all DOOM games all the way back to the classic era DOOM games. While DOOM 2016 was first to use the term "Argent Plasma." The classic era of DOOM games including the first 2, and DOOM 64 have always been using terms such as "Demon Energy." Which demon energy and argent plasma are the exact same thing throughout DOOM from the very beginning. DOOM 64's Unmaker's entire concept is it absorbs Demon Energy/Argent Plasma from targets to use against them. But according to a lot of those recent sources, weapons of the UAC being empowered by Demon Energy/Argent Plasma was something present from the very beginning, and that even weapons as basic as the Pistol and the Chainsaw use demon energy. Not to mention, it also confirmed even classic era Doomguy had the power to "Get stronger, faster, and tougher for each and every demon he slaughters. There was a content revision revitalizing all of the above a long time ago. But I forgot when that was made and who created the thread.
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
Actually, looking into some guidebooks, I've found statements like the standard AR being able to "tear through a Spartan's energy shields" or similar things.
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That would kind of hurt the ratings or propose "Spartans getting downgraded" if anything. But I think that's best to pass as game mechanics, not to mention. There was a sparring match between Linda and Kelly, and despite Kelly using an Assault Rifle and Linda using a Sniper Rifle, Linda tagged Kelly twice before Kelly could tag Linda once. Showing that bullets can't pierce Mjolnir very well. And thus, 9-C (Or 9-B in SR's case) is indeed consistent.
 
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DarkDragonMedeus said:
Actually, it really doesn't just apply to 2016, Eternal, and Dark Ages exclusively. A lot of more recent DOOM lore material overhauled the lore of all DOOM games all the way back to the classic era DOOM games. While DOOM 2016 was first to use the term "Argent Plasma." The classic era of DOOM games including the first 2, and DOOM 64 have always been using terms such as "Demon Energy." Which demon energy and argent plasma are the exact same thing throughout DOOM from the very beginning. DOOM 64's Unmaker's entire concept is it absorbs Demon Energy/Argent Plasma from targets to use against them. But according to a lot of those recent sources, weapons of the UAC being empowered by Demon Energy/Argent Plasma was something present from the very beginning, and that even weapons as basic as the Pistol and the Chainsaw use demon energy. Not to mention, it also confirmed even classic era Doomguy had the power to "Get stronger, faster, and tougher for each and every demon he slaughters. There was a content revision revitalizing all of the above a long time ago. But I forgot when that was made and who created the thread.
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I've played Doom 2016. Maybe this changes for Eternal, but demons use hell energy, and argent is completely refined hell energy.
 
The more research I do, the less impressive Halo weapons seem. The climax of Halo Reach is a baseline Building level attack destroying an entire Covenant carrier, and even then only at its most vulnerable.
 
I do think scaling Halo weapons to IRL weapons isn’t necessarily the best scaling, since we are 500 years in the future. I presumed we just did this as they had no better feats, so we just assumed they’d upscale from weapons with similar sized ammo IRL.
 
Hit them with the good old:
"At least X-Tier, higher with piercing damage"

DDM can we use stated muzzle velocities of firearms or statements such as "firearm X has higher muzzle than firearm Y's stated muzzle velocity"?
 
1000TonsofFun said:
I do think scaling Halo weapons to IRL weapons isn’t necessarily the best scaling, since we are 500 years in the future. I presumed we just did this as they had no better feats, so we just assumed they’d upscale from weapons with similar sized ammo IRL.
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That alone does NOT scientifically prove anything, we shouldn't assume that "We legit invent a way to break the laws of physics" by the mid 26th century. The respective firearms still use the same type of ammunition that existed since WWII, also, their official mass, muzzle velocity, maximum firing range, ect are all still literally given to us throughout the guidebooks, encyclopedia, and the old bungie website. And all of the above, just ultimately conclude they literally the tier of just normal guns. Hypothetically, maybe our 26th century actually ends up more advanced and replaces ballistics with Star Wars laser guns altogether, but most authors did NOT do that simply because the creators of Halo were trying to make UNSC have military weapons reflect a more Hard Science Fiction as opposed to Science Fantasy. As such, why they clearly have far better spaceships and space suits taking higher priority, guns and tanks are more or less not too different from what we've been using since mid 20th century. Only invention that's truly Space Opera level is Slipstream Space, which is a pocket dimension/Hyperspace that enables interstellar space travel via using portal creation to take short cuts, but the verse is also self aware that FTL realspace flight is scientifically impossible.

OneBleachHurricane said:
Hit them with the good old:
"At least X-Tier, higher with piercing damage"

DDM can we use stated muzzle velocities of firearms or statements such as "firearm X has higher muzzle than firearm Y's stated muzzle velocity"?
Click to expand...
Higher with piercing damage is fine, but the stated muzzle velocity ratings are still pretty much given to us + technically, ballistics are considerably slower by the time they usually hit their targets since muzzle velocity is simply the initial velocity when the bullet initially exits the muzzle, but it slowly descends and slows down as it fights against atmospheric pressure and gravity. Measuring all of the above, muzzle velocity, dimensions of the bullet to get cross sectional area, mass of the bullet, combining CSA and mass to calculate gravity resistance, then using initial velocity, Earth's gravity, and the bullet's gravity resistance to get firing range ends up with a number accurately reflecting the official firing range. So if a Magnum round says its only 427 m/s, writers basically mean it just about that. Same with Covenant Plasma weapons only being Subsonic range muzzle velocity.
 
OneBleachHurricane said:
So can we use the 905 m/s (2,970 ft/s) value for the MA5C? IIRC this would only affect the Assault Rifle, the Battle Rifle, and the DMR.
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That would be fine.
OneBleachHurricane said:
Question though, why do the DMR and Assault Rifle have different velocities?
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Different models of the respective guns launching ammunitions. Bigger guns burning slightly larger quantities of gunpowder to launch the bullet.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Different models of the respective guns launching ammunitions. Bigger guns burning slightly larger quantities of gunpowder to launch the bullet.
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Would it be fine to scale the rifles this way:

• Supersonic+ [905 m/s] for ARs and DMRs via both using the same ammunition

• At least Supersonic+ [905 m/s] for BRs via being stated to use ammo that possess higher velocity than the one used by ARs & DMRs
 
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
I sure wish Halo actually told us the velocities of stuff
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They do have muzzle velocity ratings on both classic Bungie website which is now only viewable via wayback machine. And various guidebooks as well as muzzle velocities for various covenant weapons were even outright stated in the novels. Though, none of the Hardlight/Promethean weapons have official ratings.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
They do have muzzle velocity ratings on both classic Bungie website which is now only viewable via wayback machine. And various guidebooks as well as muzzle velocities for various covenant weapons were even outright stated in the novels. Though, none of the Hardlight/Promethean weapons have official ratings.
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Oh! Would I be able to see that?
 
We genuinely might be able to upgrade a lot of guns to Building level through sheer feats.

I've been analyzing the entire verse for gun feats in cutscenes and lore, and Spartan Ops has stuff like the Magnum oneshotting a Promethean that Sarah Palmer punched, or the shotgun oneshotting a Promethean that Captain Laskey tried to fight.
 
They still would be prone to Calc Stacking. Magnum canonically struggles to damage fodder enemies unless it's their vitals. And it barely effects vehicles such as Warthogs and is literally incapable of busting through solid walls and what not. We have strict policy on weapon scaling for those very reasons, because it's literally the number one leading cause of loophole/circular scaling, reverse power scaling, calc stacking, ect.

It becomes problematic if one of the reasons used to justify building level is "Because they survived rocket launchers," followed by "Rockets are building level because they were designed to one shot vehicles and big tanks," followed by, "Those vehicles and tanks are bullet proof and can knock out Spartans," followed by "Weakest pistol in the game killed an enemy that a Spartan struggled to kill with punches." It's why all weapons and vehicles should just scale from their own calculations instead of blindly loophole calc stack everything from the highest calculation one sees just for the sake of it.

It's far too problematic and is literally devoid of all common sense to just, take the strongest non high body count weapon the cast uses regularly and decide to make even the weakest weapons by far the same tier. Not to mention, Prometheans in general are wildly inconsistent durability wise.
 
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
Halo: Campaign Evolved looks like it was made to mock the original.
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In terms of how its physics engine is and what not is going to be, it will probably play most like Halo Infinite albeit better since the Infinite Engine was a dog shit engine and Unreal Engine 5 is far better in general. But at the end of the day, it's removing the charm that made the Bungie era what it was. Not to mention, the absence of split screen co op and multiplayer doesn't seem to be helping the market. They're instead going to also make a separate game that is solely Live Service stuff with no campaign.

I heard of "2 for the price of 1" but putting these two games together is more like "1 game for the price of 2 full priced games." Actually, the Live Service stuff is probably going to be Fortnite/Call of Duty style where it's a whole bunch of Microtransactions existing in a collection of thousands of dollars it costs for one customer to have everything. That's... Even worse...
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
In terms of how its physics engine is and what not is going to be, it will probably play most like Halo Infinite albeit better since the Infinite Engine was a dog shit engine and Unreal Engine 5 is far better in general.
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It's running a dual engine system, unreal 5 is for visuals only.

The Halo spirit is not just about the debut’s impact – the studio is effectively incorporating 25 years of player feedback and technological advancement into Halo: Campaign Evolved. The latter is supported by the team’s pivot to Unreal Engine 5, which, with the foundation of Halo’s legacy code, will support the game’s development. It’s not an entirely new ecosystem for Halo Studios – they’ve dabbled quietly with Unreal projects in the past – and that has only reinforced that the tools on offer, combined with original resources, are what Halo needs to futureproof itself for the generations to come.

“Given that Halo: Campaign Evolved is a remake, it is critical that we deliver gameplay that is 100% authentically Halo at its core, ” says Greg Hermann, Game Director on Halo: Campaign Evolved.

All of the new content created in Unreal Engine 5 is layered on top of code and systems carried directly over from the original games. That legacy code is instrumental in maintaining that authentic “Halo feel” within gameplay. It means that Halo Studios can achieve the desired visual goal with Unreal’s photorealistic rendering capabilities, with the simulation systems of Halo living and breathing beneath it, Hermann adds.

“For future titles, we will continue to push the boundaries of technology while ensuring the core Halo gameplay for that game can be seen, felt, heard, and evolved where needed.”
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Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
Halo: Campaign Evolved looks like it was made to mock the original.
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It's trying to maintain a brand identify - for better or for worse. CE sticks out like a sore thumb even within the original trilogy. By reusing infinite or infinite-like assets they can maintain a modern brand identity. This is one of the major things 4 through infinite have been criticized for. I would imagine going forward every marine, all forerunner architecture and all weapons will keep this style. Even the Mark V armour Chief is wearing is nigh-identical to Infinite's rendition.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with this approach, but it's not a mockery it's a very conscious business decision that's probably based in some kind of misappropriated psychology.
 
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