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Halo General Discussion Thread

James11221 said:
Found something intresting, slipspace is stated to tear apart any ordinarry matter like covenant warships, if this involves pure dura, then whoever can survive slipspace can scale to these ships. OR get resistance to durability negation as its stated that ordinary matter cannot exist without getting destroyed so thats technically dura negation, meaning if you sruvivie it you have resistance to it

slispapce laws are also stated to be different than normal physics so that supports it aswell.
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Pretty sure that is Hyperbolic to say "Matter cannot exist" considering that lead foils can still withstand the gravitational pull. "Resistance to durability negation" is prone to NLF and as there are hundreds to maybe even thousands of ways to negate durability and resisting one or 2 methods doesn't default to every other method. And it's more so that space/gravity is unpredictable rather than simply appearing in it is guaranteed to rip and tear. So it would be resistance to gravity manipulation at best, but not everything that survived vacuum of slipspace is guaranteed. And usually it's objects with energy shields typically are unharmed via slip space travel.

Another FYI, we kind of have rules about being over reliant on what various wikis say. As many people tend to take things out of context or even add hyperbolic text to wank their favorite characters and/or verses.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Not sure about it being a perfect 5x multiplier for everything, though the statement "Metal liquid crystal layer increases armor's strength by a factor of 5" more specifically implies one of ,if not a combination of, tensile strength, yield strength, and/or hardness of the metal.
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Wait a sec, if this is a 5 times multiplier for strength properties, then shouldn't it be 5x tensile strength of titanium, which we already use for calcs?, since older armour uses base titanium, which is what we use to calc current feats.
 
James11221 said:
Wait a sec, if this is a 5 times multiplier for strength properties, then shouldn't it be 5x tensile strength of titanium, which we already use for calcs?, since older armour uses base titanium, which is what we use to calc current feats.
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This is kind of a Mjolnir Mk 6 (And next gen model) exclusive detail, and mainly speculation on unknown parameters. But the conclusion was just for generic LS, AP, and Durability feats based on voting conclusions. But things like fragmentation of titanium used for totally destroying them or melting/vaporizing titanium, I do not think we can calc stack still. Especially when Mjolnir isn't purely made of Titanium-A, there's things like Kevlar, Carbon Nanotube technologies, and Hydrostatic Gel between the layer and the armor.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
This is kind of a Mjolnir Mk 6 (And next gen model) exclusive detail, and mainly speculation on unknown parameters. But the conclusion was just for generic LS, AP, and Durability feats based on voting conclusions. But things like fragmentation of titanium used for totally destroying them or melting/vaporizing titanium, I do not think we can calc stack still. Especially when Mjolnir isn't purely made of Titanium-A, there's things like Kevlar, Carbon Nanotube technologies, and Hydrostatic Gel between the layer and the armor.
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Well I mean any mjolnir tensile strength should be comparable to base titanium.
But if we took that 5 times multiplier as a strength properties upgrade as you first posted, 5 times more than titanium is a possibility
 
James11221 said:
Well I mean any mjolnir tensile strength should be comparable to base titanium.
But if we took that 5 times multiplier as a strength properties upgrade as you first posted, 5 times more than titanium is a possibility
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We still have strict rules against Calc Stacking and what not. And PS, not that it's relevant since there are other augmentation details one Spartans wearing Mjolnir's own feats and scaling. But had we just use Tensile/Yield strength for Mjolnir, the 5x multiplier would still technically not make it any higher than Wall level.
 
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I genuinely think we have very good reason to scale GEN 3 armor to Large Building level though, even though the Monitor Beam facetank couldn't really be used.
 
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
I genuinely think we have very good reason to scale GEN 3 armor to Large Building level though, even though the Monitor Beam facetank couldn't really be used.
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He'd have to be at least that strong considering he can damage a Monitor, which can not be one-shot by Spartan Lasers which are 8-B, albeit Guilty Spark got ****** up by it.
 
Unlike Sentinel Beams, Spartan Lasers are legit overpressure 8-B levels, which may sound promising at first, but another thing about Sentinels and Guilty Spark is that energy shields in general. The shields they use are explained in Ghost of Onyx that they are programmed to shield them from extreme heat and fast projectiles (Due to fast things like bullets, rockets generating extreme heat due to friction). There is still common weakness of slow/heavy objects such as falling rocks (And they also list melee as common examples) can find ways to bypass the energy shielding.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Unlike Sentinel Beams, Spartan Lasers are legit overpressure 8-B levels, which may sound promising at first, but another thing about Sentinels and Guilty Spark is that energy shields in general. The shields they use are explained in Ghost of Onyx that they are programmed to shield them from extreme heat and fast projectiles (Due to fast things like bullets, rockets generating extreme heat due to friction). There is still common weakness of slow/heavy objects such as falling rocks (And they also list melee as common examples) can find ways to bypass the energy shielding.
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Not anymore; Chief can withstand the Diminisher of Hope even while Escharum is Berserking.
 
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
Not anymore; Chief can withstand the Diminisher of Hope even while Escharum is Berserking.
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That's a different topic altogether. Also, that's only true on Easy or normal difficulties, on Legendary, he literally oneshots the player. Which is another reason why using in game mechanics is flawed for scaling purposes. Especially when there's such a thing as difficulty settings that tends to U-turn a lot of things.

You don't even get Spartan Lasers in Halo Infinite's campaign as mentioned earlier, which means Escharum doesn't really have direct 8-B feats to speak of.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
That's a different topic altogether. Also, that's only true on Easy or normal difficulties, on Legendary, he literally oneshots the player. Which is another reason why using in game mechanics is flawed for scaling purposes. Especially when there's such a thing as difficulty settings that tends to U-turn a lot of things.

You don't even get Spartan Lasers in Halo Infinite's campaign as mentioned earlier, which means Escharum doesn't really have direct 8-B feats to speak of.
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Well yeah, you're supposed to use normal difficulty/non-Hard Mode when scaling video games.

I didn't say anything about a Spartan Laser... though that wouldn't matter since the normal weapons in the game can damage or break Adjutant Resolution's battle mech.
 
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
Well yeah, you're supposed to use normal difficulty/non-Hard Mode when scaling video games.
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There's no real standard, and if anything, in game mechanics should just not be used at all period if possible and it's preferable to use cutscenes and narratives.
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
I didn't say anything about a Spartan Laser... though that wouldn't matter since the normal weapons in the game can damage or break Adjutant Resolution's battle mech.
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That only proves my other point(s) I have been making far too many times. Shields are just inconsistent in general, and it's preferable to avoid downscaling/reverse-powerscaling.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
There's no real standard, and if anything, in game mechanics should just not be used at all period if possible and it's preferable to use cutscenes and narratives.
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If that was true, then shit like Clash Royale or (sometimes) Overwatch would have almost zero scaling.
DarkDragonMedeus said:
That only proves my other point(s) I have been making far too many times. Shields are just inconsistent in general, and it's preferable to avoid downscaling/reverse-powerscaling.
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Monitors don't even use energy shields.
 
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
If that was true, then shit like Clash Royale or (sometimes) Overwatch would have almost zero scaling.
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Keywords are "If possible" and I meant there is no real standard for what "Difficulty is canon".
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
Monitors don't even use energy shields.
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Guilty Spark and Onyx Sentinels are literally the very first characters in lore who even used energy shielding in lore; the entirety of what Covenant's energy shielding even comes form are just weaker replicas of the same energy shields Monitors use. So it is literal blasphemy to even claim they don't. You would know all this if you read Ghost of Onyx. That's also the literal canon highlight where "Shields give massive defense boosts against fast projectiles and plasma/directed energy projectiles, but do very little against close quarter melee attacks and falling rocks. That was even the main plot point for how Spartans were able to defeat Onyx sentinels was by triggering avalanches.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Keywords are "If possible" and I meant there is no real standard for what "Difficulty is canon".
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That doesn’t mean “ignore it”.
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Guilty Spark and Onyx Sentinels are literally the very first characters in lore who even used energy shielding in lore; the entirety of what Covenant's energy shielding even comes form are just weaker replicas of the same energy shields Monitors use. So it is literal blasphemy to even claim they don't. You would know all this if you read Ghost of Onyx. That's also the literal canon highlight where "Shields give massive defense boosts against fast projectiles and plasma/directed energy projectiles, but do very little against close quarter melee attacks and falling rocks. That was even the main plot point for how Spartans were able to defeat Onyx sentinels was by triggering avalanches.
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We literally watch Adjutant Resolution and his battle mech not use shields.
 
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
That doesn’t mean “ignore it”
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This is a strawman, I still simply mean, we take them with a grain of salt. Moreover, you do not want the opposite end of the bargain. Everyone and everything can get chip damaged by a whole bunch of 9-C weapons and eventually killed, and speeding vehicles calculated at 9-B amounts of KE results in almost anyone getting OHKO'd.
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
We literally watch Adjutant Resolution and his battle mech not use shields.
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You should have been specific, the Combat Chassis didn't have one you meant. But the Monitor does. That's like saying Spartans didn't have energy shield just because the Warthog or Scorpion tank they droved didn't have one.
 
Is there any way to scale the mantles approach or is the far higher rating the best for now

And is the composer not ap, because its not actually vaporization?
 
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James11221 said:
Is there any way to scale the mantles approach or is the far higher rating the best for now
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Unsure of any direct feats higher than one is currently accepted
James11221 said:
And is the composer not ap, because its not actually vaporization?
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It's main utility is that it's supposed to be memory manipulation; though it generates heat that turns people to ashes. Which is calculated AP, but doesn't really scale to anyone's durability for a multitude of reasons. Reason one, if a heat wave has large AoE, it doesn't really do that much damage to small targets; kind of like how tiny insects can technically survive getting it by speeding cars because their small bodies means most of the hit misses them due to ISL. In addition to it being a large attack that only a small portion strikes various targets, it's demonstrated mostly heat with some degree of electricity; thermal equilibrium means that for character's Master Chief's size, it's only a Wall level heat capacity feat at best. But I already explained far too many times that X Joules of pure thermal energy =/= X Joules of overpressure.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
It's main utility is that it's supposed to be memory manipulation; though it generates heat that turns people to ashes. Which is calculated AP, but doesn't really scale to anyone's durability for a multitude of reasons. Reason one, if a heat wave has large AoE, it doesn't really do that much damage to small targets; kind of like how tiny insects can technically survive getting it by speeding cars because their small bodies means most of the hit misses them due to ISL. In addition to it being a large attack that only a small portion strikes various targets, it's demonstrated mostly heat with some degree of electricity; thermal equilibrium means that for character's Master Chief's size, it's only a Wall level heat capacity feat at best. But I already explained far too many times that X Joules of pure thermal energy =/= X Joules of overpressure.
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Will calculating the elecricity generated per human or how much chief faced via tacing, applying that to 7 million people then upscaling any character come under the same issues?
 
We can't really calculate how much electrical energy per person was generated. Only that it took 90 seconds for the total feat to happen for the burning to ashes. At best, it's only Wall level when it comes to energy required to survive a portion of the blast.
 
It's hard to tell the exact AP of the ship exploding without further evidence (Merely using the AP scaling would be calc stacking) + we don't know how far away from the core or starting point of the explosion when it happens and wouldn't just blindly assume the absolute high end. More importantly, it sounds like you're reading the text out of context again. "It's tough to survive an exploding ship in one's underwear," really doesn't give us "How." Surviving an explosion doesn't specifically mean they tanked it and can just mean a narrow escape followed by crash landing technically counts as "Surviving it."
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
It's hard to tell the exact AP of the ship exploding without further evidence (Merely using the AP scaling would be calc stacking) + we don't know how far away from the core or starting point of the explosion when it happens and wouldn't just blindly assume the absolute high end. More importantly, it sounds like you're reading the text out of context again. "It's tough to survive an exploding ship in one's underwear," really doesn't give us "How." Surviving an explosion doesn't specifically mean they tanked it and can just mean a narrow escape followed by crash landing technically counts as "Surviving it."
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While we woudnt use the high end obviously we could assume midball, based on the ships height or length, its radius from the center of explosion to the edge of the ship, or we could just calculate edge of the ship which can still give us good results considering these ships massive height and weight,

As for your second point, "It's tough to survive an exploding ship in one's underwear," sounds like an indication of they tanking it, as generally less clothes is meant to say less protection which refers to the ship exploding and also ships exploding may not happen in planets but also space, where there is no gravity, overall "It's tough to survive an exploding ship in one's underwear," dosent sound like them running away and rather them tanking it
 
James11221 said:
While we woudnt use the high end obviously we could assume midball, based on the ships height or length, its radius from the center of explosion to the edge of the ship, or we could just calculate edge of the ship which can still give us good results considering these ships massive height and weight,
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By using blast radius being half the length of the ship combined with assuming they were positioned on the edge of the ship still only results in being a Building level durability feat.
James11221 said:
As for your second point, "It's tough to survive an exploding ship in one's underwear," sounds like an indication of they tanking it, as generally less clothes is meant to say less protection which refers to the ship exploding and also ships exploding may not happen in planets but also space, where there is no gravity, overall "It's tough to survive an exploding ship in one's underwear," dosent sound like them running away and rather them tanking it
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Still not exactly proof per say; they could be standing behind a wall; said wall become one of the launched fragments. In addition to ISL, the actual durability required to survive a big explosion that happened is often made less impressive if other objects are what actually absorb most of the impact/pressure.
 
I was using this page's parameters, hard to determine standards of explosions that happen in space due to absence of gravity or atmosphere. Though Mantle's Approach does have its own gravity so there is some substance. Using Air Blast method; not a ground explosion so can't really use the other method. I used half the length of Mantle since it should be assumed core is like roughly in the middle. Then using Didact's cross sectional area being roughly 2.72m^2 and the area of a sphere using radius as the same as the half the Mantle's approach's length, the math ended up at 673.174764709 kg of TNTe.
 
James11221 said:
Linda dodges fire from a MA5C assault rifle, muzzle velocity of 905m/s, Can this be used or is it aimdodging?
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I brought up that feat earlier, she is reacting to rapid fire which inherently looks legit. But I recall Versus Junkie implying that it appears to be more in line analytical prediction that then her actually being faster than Kelly. Kelly, who is consistently described as being the fastest Spartan in the series both in terms of mobility AND reactions, also got blitzed by SRS99 Sniper rounds which are just barely over 1000 m/s; slightly higher than MA5C's arounds but not by much. John-117 even said Linda could ambush and kill him if she really wanted to, and he'd be too slow to stop her if she did. And if we used it, it would be exclusive to Linda given that Linda and Kelly are typically both in the class a cut above the rest of the Spartans, but VJ also voiced likelihood for outlier concerns.

And regarding John's statements, it's consistent with Linda sniping 2 Elites piloting ghosts who were roughly 2000 yards away each, and John couldn't even tell which one was shot first.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I brought up that feat earlier, she is reacting to rapid fire which inherently looks legit. But I recall Versus Junkie implying that it appears to be more in line analytical prediction that then her actually being faster than Kelly. Kelly, who is consistently described as being the fastest Spartan in the series both in terms of mobility AND reactions, also got blitzed by SRS99 Sniper rounds which are just barely over 1000 m/s; slightly higher than MA5C's arounds but not by much. John-117 even said Linda could ambush and kill him if she really wanted to, and he'd be too slow to stop her if she did. And if we used it, it would be exclusive to Linda given that Linda and Kelly are typically both in the class a cut above the rest of the Spartans, but VJ also voiced likelihood for outlier concerns.

And regarding John's statements, it's consistent with Linda sniping 2 Elites piloting ghosts who were roughly 2000 yards away each, and John couldn't even tell which one was shot first.
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It woudnt apply to Jhon but would it apply to kelly or linda, not sure about analytical prediction because i cant really tell if she was saw the gun before it fired
 
James11221 said:
It woudnt apply to Jhon but would it apply to kelly or linda, not sure about analytical prediction because i cant really tell if she was saw the gun before it fired
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It's more so that Linda kind of read the input of every moved Kelly made before she moved them. And the point of the sparing match was even though Kelly had the upper hand in speed/agility, she was too predictable in Linda's eyes.
 
James11221 said:
Casuality manipulation halo, 8-B binary rifle (although it fires antimatter)

is manipulation slipsapce physics manipulation?
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Causality Manipulation was heavily rejected; they never actually manipulated it before. They gave rough calculations to calculate probability, but they don't possess any sort of magic that manipulates it. We'd give various Terminators from Terminator series and Dr Ichigaki from Yu Yu Hakusho the same abilities if we did. But simply making advanced tools that calculated probability is not manipulating. Nor is causing portals to close via overriding technologies causality manipulation.

The 8-B stuff for Binary Rifle (And I think Scattershot is roughly the same level) is a fine for AP feat via thermal energy/chemical reaction. But for much of the same reason as Incineration Cannon, it wouldn't be as impressive true durability wise.
 
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Seiji did say it was slightly highballed though. Though, it wouldn't be anything short of high end Class 50.

Another thing that could often be overlooked is the lightened gravity factor given the way he did the feat, and as soon as he placed it where he wanted, he was able to just jump off and float away.
 
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