The question of the priority of LS and AP in battles

[NikHelton]

I had a question about how the LS advantage works and in what cases it allows one to gain the upper hand over a stronger opponent, and in what cases it doesn't.

LS usually determined whether one character could immobilize another. However, I recently learned that a 10-Kilton character with LS Class M can tear apart a 15-Kilton character with LS Class 5 due to physical superiority, despite equal durability.

In this battle between Superman and Homelander, one of Clark's wincons was LS Class G versus Homelander's LS Class K. This is despite Homelander's durability being five times higher than Superman's.

@Dalesean027 even noted that LS Class G would be enough to tear apart a 7-C character.

So, what's the upper limit for when LS actually provides such an advantage? If character A has 8-A strength and LS Class G, and character B has High 7-C durability and LS Class K, can character A kill the other with LS?

Does LS really allow them to tear apart an opponent with the same AP and Dura?

 

[Arkansalter2]

You would likely need AP & LS for an LS tear. So if Party 1's AP (lets say 33 Kilotons) and LS (Lets say Class G) is higher than Party 2's, then it can likely be an LS Tear.
However if the opposite happens, for example Party 3's AP (32 Kilotons compared to Party 4's 16 Kilotons) is higher but his LS is lower than Party 4's (Party 3 having Class 5 while Party 4 having Class K), then Party 4 could only incap via a specific hold or whatever or yeeting the person if a party's LS is high enough above another party.
Overall, it depends on both rather than individually, if that makes sense.

 

[Kellex]

If the character has higher AP and LS, then yeah they can rip their opponent.
If the character has higher LS, but lower AP than their opponent, then no they can't rip the other.

 

[NikHelton]

If the character has higher AP and LS, then yeah they can rip their opponent.
If the character has higher LS, but lower AP than their opponent, then no they can't rip the other.

You would likely need AP & LS for an LS tear. So if Party 1's AP (lets say 33 Kilotons) and LS (Lets say Class G) is higher than Party 2's, then it can likely be an LS Tear.
However if the opposite happens, for example Party 3's AP (32 Kilotons compared to Party 4's 16 Kilotons) is higher but his LS is lower than Party 4's (Party 3 having Class 5 while Party 4 having Class K), then Party 4 could only incap via a specific hold or whatever or yeeting the person if a party's LS is high enough above another party.
Overall, it depends on both rather than individually, if that makes sense.

Dalesean and the guys from the blog were talking about Superman simply breaking Homelander's neck, despite Homelander's stats being five times stronger.

Dal also said that Class G would be an effective way to fight 7-C.

 

[Vietthai96]

No, you can't tear them apart even if you have higher LS but far inferior AP compared to your opponent's dura, though you could pin them, throw them around or restrain them

 

[NikHelton]

No, you can't tear them apart een if you have higher LS but far inferior AP compared to your opponent's dura, though you could pin them, throw them around or restrain them

Okay, that makes sense.
I just found the Dalesean idea confusing.

 

[Dalesean027]

Okay, that makes sense.
I just found the Dalesean idea confusing.

Brother idk why you framed an entire thread throwing me under the bus with out of context shit but this was my sentence in the thread

Clark doesn't need to rip him apart and lowkey a Class G could rip a 7-C apart but anyways Superman just needs to restrain him or toss him around really in a numerous amount of ways he already does in character.

The thread nor any argument was ever made about Superman being able to actuall tear through homelander, it was literally about homelander being restrained to the point he can't do anything due to the sheer LS gap. The whole point of someone being able to damage via LS was brought up by you just assuming since we said Superman can restrain him that he'd tear him apart when that was never stated prior.

Now numbers wise if you want to be actually talk about it then yes a Class G could tear through a 7-C if you know anything about LS values as they apply to durability irl but its not a wiki thing that we use since we don't allow X ls Value via having X durability like you would have irl.


Not sure why you framed this as me enforcing my own standards on wiki when its like a strike through message of me essentially going "lowkey they can based on numbers but we ain't doing that"

 

[NikHelton]

Brother idk why you framed an entire thread throwing me under the bus with out of context shit but this was my sentence in the thread

Bro, this isn't the first time I've heard the phrase that superior LS allows you to tear apart an enemy. I didn't mean to "put you in harm's way" or anything like that. Sorry if that's how it seemed to you. It's just that your words as a moderator and a member of the calculation team carry more weight, so I thought it was a reliable statement.
I was just trying to clarify the situation for myself, because it's common for moderators to disagree with each other.
If several moderators had said that LS is a higher priority, we could have used that as an argument in battles.

The thread nor any argument was ever made about Superman being able to actuall tear through homelander, it was literally about homelander being restrained to the point he can't do anything due to the sheer LS gap. The whole point of someone being able to damage via LS was brought up by you just assuming since we said Superman can restrain him that he'd tear him apart when that was never stated prior.

A guy literally posted a gif of Superman breaking Zod's neck and people were treating it like a wincon.

Now numbers wise if you want to be actually talk about it then yes a Class G could tear through a 7-C if you know anything about LS values as they apply to durability irl but its not a wiki thing that we use since we don't allow X ls Value via having X durability like you would have irl.

Okay, I was still quite curious to know. Would a hypothetical 8-B Class G character be able to rip apart a 7-C Class 1 character?

Don't take this personally.

Not sure why you framed this as me enforcing my own standards on wiki when its like a strike through message of me essentially going "lowkey they can based on numbers but we ain't doing that"

Bro, I don't know why you took this as me accusing you of "imposing standards." I found your words authoritative enough to make me think more seriously about the mechanics of LS and AP. This is more of a sign of respect for you than a sign of ill will.

 

[Dalesean027]

A guy literally posted a gif of Superman breaking Zod's neck and people were treating it like a wincon.

Not a soul treated is an a wincon, it got likes because it was a funny GIF but otherwise not a soul said superman is snapping his neck or tearing him limb from limb

Bro, this isn't the first time I've heard the phrase that superior LS allows you to tear apart an enemy. I didn't mean to "put you in harm's way" or anything like that. Sorry if that's how it seemed to you. It's just that your words as a moderator and a member of the calculation team carry more weight, so I thought it was a reliable statement.

It was the most obvioulsy unserious stagement complete with struck through text bro and lax dialogue

Okay, I was still quite curious to know. Would a hypothetical 8-B Class G character be able to rip apart a 7-C Class 1 character?

If we were talking off site then sure I'd agree but wiki simplifies standards so that doesn't happen without relative AP even if LS could make up that gap heck even flashlight did a chart for tier via LS but I never implied it was something to be enforced on site or argued it in the match

Requirements for Quickly Lifting Something to Shoulder Height

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[NikHelton]

Not a soul treated is an a wincon, it got likes because it was a funny GIF but otherwise not a soul said superman is snapping his neck or tearing him limb from limb

"Superman blitzes and gives a BEEG hug to Homelander"
"Superman's superior LS rips John to shreds"
"The LS meta is strong with this one"
"superman breaking 8-As with his LS meta FRA"

Not to mention that many people wrote Superman FRA after these arguments.

So yes, it really did confuse people.

It was the most obvioulsy unserious stagement complete with struck through text bro and lax dialogue

I just misunderstood you. You said he "didn't need" to tear Homelander apart. And the idea about 7-C and Class G actually makes sense, which is why I asked the OP.

If we were talking off site then sure I'd agree but wiki simplifies standards so that doesn't happen without relative AP even if LS could make up that gap heck even flashlight did a chart for tier via LS but I never implied it was something to be enforced on site or argued it in the match

Requirements for Quickly Lifting Something to Shoulder Height

vsbattles.fandom.com

Oh shit, I thought Class Z was close to Moon or Planet level.

 

[Da3ggman]

I call upon the LS Ambassador @Chariot190.

 

[NikHelton]

Not

While you're at it, could you also check out this thread ?

Boros's ship calc and High 6-C scaling

Hi everyone. I'll say right away that this isn't a content revision. I have a small question regarding the High 6-C update and the calculation of Boros's ship. Boros's ship scales up to the complete destruction of City Z. However, I have a few issues with this: 1)20 psi value seems...

vsbattles.com

 

[Baken384]

The wiki is not ready for the Tensile Strength meta.

you could pin them, throw them around or restrain them

The Platinum Choke

 

[Arkansalter2]

The wiki is not ready for the Tensile Strength meta.


The Platinum Choke

You.

 

[KLOL506]

No, you can't tear them apart even if you have higher LS but far inferior AP compared to your opponent's dura, though you could pin them, throw them around or restrain them

This.

 

[Greatsage13th]

No, you can't tear them apart even if you have higher LS but far inferior AP compared to your opponent's dura, though you could pin them, throw them around or restrain them

Are there no exceptions? Like just because they can't punch them to death doesn't mean they aren't susceptible to having their head torn off.

 

[Vietthai96]

Are there no exceptions? Like just because they can't punch them to death doesn't mean they aren't susceptible to having their head torn off.

Torn off like what?, rip the head out of the body? The act of being able to rip something out is translated to AP, not simply LS, LS mean you lift thing up and or push thing, simple. If you can rip the head out then that mean your AP is sufficient to do so, which make no sense if your AP is inferior to your opponent Durability

 

[Baken384]

Yare Yare Daze… The LS Meta is too much for this website, at least the Platinum Choke is applicable.

 

[Huesito88]

Torn off like what?, rip the head out of the body? The act of being able to rip something out is translated to AP, not simply LS, LS mean you lift thing up and or push thing, simple. If you can rip the head out then that mean your AP is sufficient to do so, which make no sense if your AP is inferior to your opponent Durability

Is crushing the bones the same right? (Just checking)

 

[Lonkitt]

Spider-Man's web incap has been doin' this for years and only now people are wondering if LS can override stronger opponents with lesser LS ratings

 

[KLOL506]

Is crushing the bones the same right? (Just checking)

Crushing bones is AP. LS alone gets you nowhere.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Torn off like what?, rip the head out of the body? The act of being able to rip something out is translated to AP, not simply LS, LS mean you lift thing up and or push thing, simple. If you can rip the head out then that mean your AP is sufficient to do so, which make no sense if your AP is inferior to your opponent Durability

Asking because I only found the LS for tearing off a head but not the AP for doing so, on the common feats page.

 

[Dalesean027]

Is crushing the bones the same right? (Just checking)

On wiki you need relative AP to damage someone with LS but that doesn't stop a higher LS person from just being able to completely restrain, pin down, choke, or like completely prevent their opponent from moving

Spider-Man's web incap has been doin' this for years and only now people are wondering if LS can override stronger opponents with lesser LS ratings

FACTS LS is key

"Superman blitzes and gives a BEEG hug to Homelander"
"Superman's superior LS rips John to shreds"
"The LS meta is strong with this one"
"superman breaking 8-As with his LS meta FRA"

I mean they know ball but wiki fears LS meta so it ain't a thing a wiki

lift thing up and or push thing,

"lift" and "pushing" yet not pulling, nooticing

but nah yeah jokes aside on wiki you need relative AP to damage via LS in a way that involves tearing someone apart in some way

 

[Vietthai96]

"lift" and "pushing" yet not pulling, nooticing

Ah yeah, pulling and dragging thing too, holding and crushing thing also count if i'm not wrong.

 

[Vietthai96]

Asking because I only found the LS for tearing off a head but not the AP for doing so, on the common feats page.

Missed this but you get both AP and LS from this feat, though probably the calc forgot to include AP

 

[Dalesean027]

pulling and dragging thing too, holding and crushing thing also count if i'm not wrong.

you are wrong there,

without having relative AP you can still fully restrain, hold, and drag someone not in a capacity to damage them but in a way that can prevent them from moving absolutely. Some shit just doesn't work if the gap is so vast because someone's micromovements could potentially just kill their foe who has the lower AP value if they are able to exert force like that with minor movement so it just wouldn't matter in cases like those.

As far as I'm aware do at least allow choking as well even if the AP isn't relative since it is a LS thing being just compression

 

[Baken384]

The bum 6-c enemy with class 50 ls when i restrain their neck and block their arteries and air way to simulate a choke and strangulation all at once with the class g forces

 

[Greatsage13th]

Missed this but you get both AP and LS from this feat, though probably the calc forgot to include AP

Drat... Then one of the match that I made is invalid.

How do you calculate the AP for that? Tensile strength times Total Volume of Neck Muscles?

 

[Dalesean027]

i mean dragging or throwing someone is just really moreso a matter of their weight anyways rather even a LS value like a Class 5 can throw a Class M by their leg or some shit since a dude only weights like idk 75kg or something you're throwing their weight not their LS value, its only when it comes to them being able to wrestle back or fight off a throw or grab that the LS values clashing matters as far as that goes but its certainly not an AP dependent thing to be able to drag, throw, or restrain an opponent with LS

ofc finding yourself in a position to be able to do any of these maneuvers is entirely dependent on the character and isn't something just anyone can utilize

 

[Lonkitt]

The bum 6-c enemy with class 50 ls when i restrain their neck and block their arteries and air way to simulate a choke and strangulation all at once with the class g forces

The fraudulent Tier 6 Class 100 MCU Ikaris when the humble Tier 9 Class M VR Spider-Man gets him a chokehold

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Class P Deku on his way to rip Class T DBS Goku in half

 

[Baken384]

Class P Deku on his way to rip Class T DBS Goku in half

I fear the tensile strength is too good

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

I fear the tensile strength is too good

Footage of Deku mogging Goku with his LS

 

[Baken384]

Footage of Deku mogging Goku with his LS

Yaah

 

[Dalesean027]

Alrighty though now that that's all been cleared up I'll close this

 

[Agnaa]

Meet the Lifting Strength statistic, quick rundown on it:

>UES-chuds bow to the LS
>with contact can shove away attacks
>rumoured to possess incap-worthy lung strength
>restrain combatants with an iron grip
>block veins and arteries all over the body
>direct descendants of the ancient speed blitz meta
>will tear off all your limbs (if your muscles can’t lift a mountain, why would they start as soon as it becomes “real damage”?)
>owns basically every character whose story’s confined to Earth
>first character with 20 wins will be LS-coded
>most LS-chads have 200+ battle IQ
>ancient Indian scriptures tell of two demigods who will descend upon the Earth and will restrain and crush all who oppose them
>can block anyone’s trachea with selective intangibility, body control, and Nanobots