Marvel cosmology revision (Update and merging J.M. DeMatteis and main one)

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

The bottom line I hope you get about power-scaling especially in a big verse is the multitude of information to work with and interpret. Rather than the incongruency because not a single author writes the canon in a verse such as Marvel.

We, obviously, all know it will be inconsistent but that's a side-effect of a rich history, not writers trying to formulate their own canon. Unless, it’s creator-owned, most of those stories are meant to be tied to the Marvel Cosmology. However, that doesn't mean throw out the old comics that the new ones are trying to add upon, in most cases, it’s just a minor fix-up. The major one doesn't appear as often as you think it does and when they do then we can tackle the issue. However, straight-up arguing first to tackle these “inconsistencies” is not a form of power-scaling most people are used to and shouldn't be.

 

[Antvasima]

If you know that stacking all the many hundreds of writers' cosmologies on top of each other causes complete contradictions with the actual displayed power levels of these characters, especially if we consider the enormously larger number of anti-feats, why do you want to do so?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

If you know that stacking all the many hundreds of writers' cosmologies on top of each other causes complete contradictions with the actual displayed power levels of these characters, especially if we consider the enormously larger number of anti-feats, why do you want to do so?

I already addressed there will be an inconsistencies, but we shouldn't focus too much on that first, if we can't establish a foundation. Last I recall, we used a very small amount of author in the Cosmology, and they’re fine in canoncity with each other. Also, DeMatteis is an example of what doesn't work, and guess who did the work on that?

The ratings were already higher previously, so I don't get what you're gawking at as unbelievable.

 

[Antvasima]

I had the impression that you want to upgrade regular superheroes, who don't even have beyond-dimensional existence, to High 1-A.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

I had the impression that you want to upgrade regular superheroes, who don't even have beyond-dimensional existence, to High 1-A.

Good guess, but no.

 

[Antvasima]

Good guess, but no.

So what do you intend to do then?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

So what do you intend to do then?

Fix the issue with this outdated information. I wouldn't consider myself “conservative,” but my reasoning were at least decent enough to already change some things around. You're tedious need to berate me makes you unreasonable to what I'm trying to do without being shut down or you making another remark.

What I intend to do, you’ll see, but I'm planning to converse with the experts on this subject matter. I don't recall you being apart of that, so best you wait.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I am extremely knowledgeable regarding Marvel Comics history at least, but I don't have sufficient amounts of free time to plan out indepth cosmological power scaling.

Also, I want to be informed if you plan to do anything drastic.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Well, I am extremely knowledgeable regarding Marvel Comics history at least, but I don't have sufficient amounts of free time to plan out indepth cosmological power scaling.

That's kind of the point. If you rather put your opinion in the matter because of time issues then you can sit it out until the thread is underway. I don't think I'm require your permission to make threads. So, yeah, best you wait.

Also, I want to be informed if you plan to do anything drastic.

No unwarranted remarks? I don't need that “I'm very honest” undertone, just say it with some thoughts. If you can handle that I’ll pitch you the idea

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I actually am extremely sincere and unfiltered in the way I think and communicate. I just find your tendency for exaggeration and not accepting staff verdicts very tiresome to deal with after considerable experience in this area.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Well, I actually am extremely sincere and unfiltered in the way I think and communicate. I just find your tendency for exaggeration and not accepting staff verdicts very tiresome to deal with after considerable experience in this area.

What arbitrary rules are implemented where it says I can't disagree? There's no exaggerating anything, that's your weird preconceived notion that all things must be absolutely to your liking because you think power scaling only should be about focusing on the anti-feats.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, focusing on a more balanced sum total picture of the feats in general, rather than scaling too many characters with highly variable power levels to the most extreme few feats available based on stacking many different versions of the cosmology on top of each other.

And beyond a certain point you need to accept staff verdicts. Several different staff members have told me that they have grown tired of how much time they have to spend due to your sheer unreasonability.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Well, focusing on a more balanced sum total picture of the feats in general, rather than scaling too many characters with highly variable power levels to the most extreme few feats available based on stacking many different versions of the cosmology on top of each other.

Again, that's not for you to decide alone. If you disagree, just say it. I don't need a long tangent about these nonsensical points of yours.

And beyond a certain point you need to accept staff verdicts. Several different staff members have told me that they have grown tired of how much time they have to spend due to your sheer unreasonability.

“Several?” I hardly converse with them outside Ultima. Whose the one exaggerating here? Last I recall I tend to have the majority staff consensus.

 

[Antvasima]

Again, that's not for you to decide alone. If you disagree, just say it. I don't need a long tangent about these nonsensical points of yours.

They are not remotely nonsensical. A more balanced approach seems quite sensible per definition.

“Several?” I hardly converse with them outside Ultima. Whose the one exaggerating here? Last I recall I tend to have the majority staff consensus.

I am not exaggerating, no.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

They are not remotely nonsensical. A more balanced approach seems quite sensible per definition.

If it require balance then many of these things would be disagreement from mods. I only asked you to close the thread, but the previous were successful in their goal.

I am not exaggerating, no.

Yeah, sure. I almost don't talk to any mods outside Ultima. A few issue here and there with some other ones, but, last I recall they were resolved rather easily.

So Ultima saying something because that's just Ultima = every/lots of mods. Good correlation.

 

[Antvasima]

If it require balance then many of these things would be disagreement from mods. I only asked you to close the thread, but the previous were successful in their goal.

What do you mean?

Yeah, sure. I almost don't talk to any mods outside Ultima. A few issue here and there with some other ones, but, last I recall they were resolved rather easily.

So Ultima saying something because that's just Ultima = every/lots of mods. Good correlation.

If there is one thing that I am not, it is a deliberate liar. I am a compulsively sincere type, and at least 3 different staff members that I recall have all expressed a strong distaste for you to me in private.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

What do you mean?

It means if they were so off-balance then the last threads wouldn't have been accepted. Last I recall, the ratings were higher than the previous time we have a composite Marvel Cosmology. You had no problem with them and now that I return, you seem to have all the problem in the world.

If there is one thing that I am not, it is a deliberate liar. I am a compulsively sincere type, and at least 3 different staff members that I recall have all expressed a strong distaste for you to me in private.

You're not “sincere” and it shows.

 

[Antvasima]

I have a major ongoing problem with our extremely exaggerated Marvel Comics statistics in general, if that is what you are referring to.

I also definitely am very unfiltered sincere, yes. That is one of my most defining traits. But if you are not attentive enough to notice it, that is your problem.

 

[MrKerf]

Guys, guys, let’s not argue, especially off topic.

Ant, would you be willing to reopen Goofy’s old cosmology thread, please?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

I have a major ongoing problem with our extremely exaggerated Marvel Comics statistics in general, if that is what you are referring to.

Then that's not me alone that you should be targeting.

I also definitely am very unfiltered sincere, yes. That is one of my most defining traits. But if you are not attentive enough to notice it, that is your problem.

You've been called out more than once even by another staff member about your “unfiltered sincere” which isn't even a term. Just say your unfiltered honest opinion, which you can easily tone down the hasty remarks.

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

Ant, would you be willing to reopen Goofy’s old cosmology thread, please?

Marvel Cosmology Redo (Part 2 of 2)

Hi, today we will be doing part two of the Cosmology revision thread. This time it will tackle the main thread. As I have made a sandbox here going over it: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:VeryGoofyToddler2/sandbox6#Planes_of_Existence Eternity, the Far Shore, and Yggdrasil: Discussed...

vsbattles.com

The problem is, it received a 5-0 staff vote to keep it closed, so he may not have permission.

 

[Antvasima]

Marvel Cosmology Redo (Part 2 of 2)

Hi, today we will be doing part two of the Cosmology revision thread. This time it will tackle the main thread. As I have made a sandbox here going over it: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:VeryGoofyToddler2/sandbox6#Planes_of_Existence Eternity, the Far Shore, and Yggdrasil: Discussed...

vsbattles.com

The problem is, it received a 5-0 staff vote to keep it closed, so he may not have permission.

It seems like a very bad idea, yes.

Then that's not me alone that you should be targeting.

You are also rude, unreasonable, disrespectful, and argumentative, and I have the impression that you intend to exaggerate our already extremely bloated and unreliable statistics even further. That is why I am more annoyed with you than with others.

You've been called out more than once even by another staff member about your “unfiltered sincere” which isn't even a term. Just say your unfiltered honest opinion, which you can easily tone down the hasty remarks.

Yes. I have repeatedly been berated about being too unfiltered honest/sincere, and am blatantly a very hardworking self-sacrificing idealist, so suddenly claiming that I am not seems very strange. I mean I am very self-critical about my personality, but that just isn't true.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Marvel Cosmology Redo (Part 2 of 2)

Hi, today we will be doing part two of the Cosmology revision thread. This time it will tackle the main thread. As I have made a sandbox here going over it: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:VeryGoofyToddler2/sandbox6#Planes_of_Existence Eternity, the Far Shore, and Yggdrasil: Discussed...

vsbattles.com

The problem is, it received a 5-0 staff vote to keep it closed, so he may not have permission.

I didn't ask for it to be open since Ant made it clear it will never be pushed to use until Ultima appears. So I don't have an issue with it being closed after all, I asked of it to be closed. My problems lies with this administrator belittling and berating me.

 

[Antvasima]

I am not belittling you. I am just annoyed with you, and you have berated me more severely than the reverse.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

You are also rude, unreasonable, disrespectful, and argumentative, and I have the impression that you intend to exaggerate our already extremely bloated and unreliable statistics even further. That is why I am more annoyed with you than with others.

Rude? You want me to quote what rude actually is? I have the evidence of you being plan-out text-book defintion of rude and disrespectful.

Also, I haven't questioned the Marvel status, but, then again, if I were to, I'm in the ethical boundaries to do so.

Yes. I have repeatedly been berated about being too unfiltered honest/sincere, and am blatantly a very hardworking self-sacrificing idealist, so suddenly claiming that I am not seems very strange. I mean I am very self-critical about my personality, but that just isn't true.

You're contradicting yourself here.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Imma leave this conversation. Clearly, Ant has a vendetta against me. Everyone wants this thread to be in topic, in light of that, I won't be following up in responses to Ant hypocrisy any further.

 

[Antvasima]

Rude? You want me to quote what rude actually is? I have the evidence of you being plan-out text-book defintion of rude and disrespectful.

No. I am usually perfectly nice and helpful, but if somebody relentlessly crosses the line for a sufficiently long time, I eventually get annoyed and say so honestly.

Also, I haven't questioned the Marvel status, but, then again, if I were to, I'm in the ethical boundaries to do so.

It would be extremely tiresome to have to deal with, but thank you and my apologies if I have misunderstood.

You're contradicting yourself here.

No. I am a very sincerely idealistic and outspoken person, including when it can potentially cause great danger to myself. I have a long history of this.

 

[Antvasima]

Imma leave this conversation. Clearly, Ant has a vendetta against me. Everyone wants this thread to be in topic, in light of that, I won't be following up in responses to Ant hypocrisy any further.

What hypocrisy?

 

[Progrev228]

So what about thread?

 

[Antvasima]

Please remind us what we currently need to evaluate here.

 

[Progrev228]

Please remind us what we currently need to evaluate here

I'm not sure if other users agree with merge, so I just want to evaluate hierarchies

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

If the merge isn't accepted by the majority consensus then you can't use those scans from DeMatteis.

 

[Progrev228]

If the merge isn't accepted by the majority consensus then you can't use those scans from DeMatteis.

All hierarchies are the same, which is one of the reasons to merge but for some reason everybody ignores it

 

[Progrev228]

Bump

 

[Progrev228]

So i read all Dematteis profile keys, revision thread and tiering justification.

J.M. DeMatteis (Marvel Cosmology Split)

As some of you may understand I have been advocating with Ultima after this tiering system revision was being applied that DeMatteis's story isn't very congruent with the main Cosmology. While authors like Hickman, Ewing, and many others seem to at least follow a certain contunity with their...

vsbattles.com

Marvel Cosmology Redo (Part 1 of 2)

As you may have guessed from the title. This is a long time coming and Marvel Cosmology is getting some interesting changes based on the research of the blog: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:VeryGoofyToddler2/J.M._DeMatteis_Cosmology(Marvel)#References I’ll keep it short and...

vsbattles.com

1) Eternity The Dream of the Creator key just bad, it just bunch of random scans where written about hierarchies without any explanation why this hierarchies are different and why one encompasses another, Strange on Shamballa scan also used for justification of hieararchy in multiverse when scan itself telling about layers of universe. What is avatar key in Oblivion profile? Is this universal manifistation or what? And why True Oblivion key references to Chaos King when it doesn't have anything? And why there no any mentions of spiritual/mental realities which was one of reasons of split and tiering justification?

2) Now about this Spiritual/mental realities. Literally all scans about this Mental realities is just random character quotes about Heaven and quantum sea without any explanation of R>F difference, hierarchy and why this realities exist above Universal Eternity. We don't even kniw what they talking about same reality or compex of realities because there many heaven and quantum realities in Marvel and Dematteis itself don't like to name specifically realities and just uses dream/brahma/illusion. And why Macroverse scales lower than mental realities? It literally invented in one of latest Dematteis works after all scans with mental realities, and exist above Brahma?

3) I like what some people don't understand what somehow in 70+ years old company with 1000+ writers of different sexes, races, social status, age, sexual orientation people can have different philosophical worldview but still work in one company and write same characters and stories

​

 

[Antvasima]

What are the staff evaluations here so far?

 

[Xearesay]

The Dream of the Creator key just bad, it just bunch of random scans where written about hierarchies without any explanation why this hierarchies are different and why one encompasses another, Strange on Shamballa scan also used for justification of hieararchy in multiverse when scan itself telling about layers of universe. What is avatar key in Oblivion profile? Is this universal manifistation or what? And why True Oblivion key references to Chaos King when it doesn't have anything? And why there no any mentions of spiritual/mental realities which was one of reasons of split and tiering justification?

2) Now about this Spiritual/mental realities. Literally all scans about this Mental realities is just random character quotes about Heaven and quantum sea without any explanation of R>F difference, hierarchy and why this realities exist above Universal Eternity. We don't even kniw what they talking about same reality or compex of realities because there many heaven and quantum realities in Marvel and Dematteis itself don't like to name specifically realities and just uses dream/brahma/illusion. And why Macroverse scales lower than mental realities? It literally invented in one of latest Dematteis works after all scans with mental realities, and exist above Brahma?

Is there really no justification he gave? The only thing close to a justification I found for why he wants to separate the verse is this.

“J.M. DeMatteis heavily focuses on elements that he knows from his journey in life. This is a big example of his “God” character as a being that is not meant to be tied to just the comics, but a holistic fountainhead that is not tethered to just one religion though it's heavily Hindu-based. Now, J.M. DeMatteis writing is very flowery and hard to understand especially when he was experimenting more with the Cosmology. This means some interpretation can be put for these scans.”

Although this^ is obviously a wildly bad argument.

All I read about the DeMatteis section is second-hand coincidence that is shared because a writer isn't going to say “my work is non-canon.” Is there more prominent or stronger points? Like “Macroverse” in essence is not a new concept that DeMatteis randomly made up, by this token of logic, every mention of DeMatteis using concepts things like “Oblivion, Creator, Dream” would always mean one and the same thing across all canon. That's a problem and I don't think I need to explain why.

This is another response he gave, but it’s basically just handwaves. He also admits that the writers wouldn’t even consider their works non-canon, which is hilarious as he’s basically implying we should all trust him over the writers opinions when it comes to canonicity.

 

[Progrev228]

I talked to others Marvel supporters and we came to the conclusion that we need to separate the upgrade and merge. So it will be better to use this tread just to merge (nobody write about tiering anyway)

 

[Eseseso]

I talked to others Marvel supporters and we came to the conclusion that we need to separate the upgrade and merge. So it will be better to use this tread just to merge (nobody write about tiering anyway)

It might be better to make a new thread for the merge, especially since someone else is also working on stuff for the merge

 

[Excellence616]

If that's the case, can this thread be closed?