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BB

1. Created the far side of the moon

2. Has a superior perspective to Rin.

I think she knows how it works.

This is referring to the destination. Someone travelling through INS has the potential to surface in a completely different time period or location than intended.
1) No she didn't, she just took control of it from the Moon Cell. What she created was the Sakura Labyrinth.

2)Rin's the one who gave the explanation about the "higher-dimensional perspective" that BB gained after fusing with the Moon Cell, so I'd say she's just as reliable a source as BB herself

3) That doesn't contradict the notion that time exists in the Imaginary Number Space, and if anything it actually supports it.
 
And on the third side, we have FGO mats saying that spacial coordinates and time are both undefined in INS.
Trying to apply dimensions to INS is a fool's errand from the beginning.
but your own scan says that time changes randomly
just because its undefined doesn't mean it can't exist at all
 
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BB

1. Created the far side of the moon

2. Has a superior perspective to Rin.

I think she knows how it works.

This is referring to the destination. Someone travelling through INS has the potential to surface in a completely different time period or location than intended.
to be fair having no concept of time can mean that time just works weirdly instead of utter lack of time. it's actually not that uncommon afaik where stuff that works differently is said to have no concept of
 
it says it changes randomly and then clarifies that actually they can't be defined at all.
If time didn't exist in INS at all then the entire purpose of the paper moon would be defeated?? If time was actually absent, there would be no need for a device like paper moon to measure in the first place. The fact that the Paper Moon is specifically designed to account for the unpredictable time shows that time still exists but it behaves in a really weird way and its not like regular time

and your scan never even claimed that time doesn't exist. It just describes how time INS doesn't behave like it does compared to normal and can’t be defined in a traditional sense.
 
to be fair having no concept of time can mean that time just works weirdly instead of utter lack of time. it's actually not that uncommon afaik where stuff that works differently is said to have no concept of
Trisha in casefiles stuck her own severed head in there EXACTLY because there is no time in INS. (I sent this scan a few pages ago.)

If there was time in there, it would pretty much break that plot line.
 
Trisha in casefiles stuck her own severed head in there EXACTLY because there is no time in INS. (I sent this scan a few pages ago.)

If there was time in there, it would pretty much break that plot line.
bro its the other way around

if we assumed INS had literally no time the entire story of fgo wouldn't even exist
there would be no purpose of even having paper moon

i know you debunked infinity existing in the verse but this fodder statement still applies
Being one with the Moon Cell, I share its unique view of time where infinity can be contained in a single second.
 
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bro its the other way around

if we assumed INS had literally no time the entire story of fgo wouldn't even exist
there would be no purpose of even having paper moon
Paper moon exists to anchor the destination in reality space. That’s what the statement is talking about. Moving spatially through INS causes you to move through time in reality spaces
i know you debunked infinity existing in the verse but this fodder statement still applies
This is talking about BB’s higher dimensional spatial perspective of reality space
 
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Paper moon exists to anchor the destination in reality space. That’s what the statement is talking about. Moving spatially through INS causes you to move through time in reality spaces
The entire purpose of paper moon is so that when you traverse through INS (a realm where direction, distance, and time randomly shift), the paper moon acts as a guide that helps you navigate though it by MANAGING that direction, distance and time. The device doesn’t just anchor a destination in reality space. You can see that it clearly deals with managing stuff like distance direction and time here.
In a realm where "direction, distance, and time" randomly shift (or rather, cannot be defined) with every step forward, this compass allows for precise, unwavering travel toward the initially designated destination.
The compass that is being referred to is the paper moon.


If we go by your claim that time does not exist in INS like at all there would be no need for the Paper Moon. Clearly the compass is necessary for navigating time within the INS where time randomly shifts like i showed you. The idea that moving spatially through INS causes you to move through time in reality space isn't the entire point. The main point of the Paper Moon is managing time in the INS itself not simply anchoring it to reality.

Da Vinci:
"We would have had to sail halfway across the world for that to happen... Did Void Space make that possible?"


Da Vinci:
"More or less. In Void Space, real-world distances have no meaning."


Da Vinci:
"Instead, the distance we can travel corresponds exactly to the time it takes to calculate coordinates and verify our existence."


Da Vinci:
"Now, take a look at the Paper Moon!"
 
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You can't just highlight "randomly shift" when literally right after that they elaborate and say they cannot be defined at all.
 
You can't just highlight "randomly shift" when literally right after that they elaborate and say they cannot be defined at all.
i already addressed this
If time didn't exist in INS at all then the entire purpose of the paper moon would be defeated?? If time was actually absent, there would be no need for a device like paper moon to measure in the first place. The fact that the Paper Moon is specifically designed to account for the unpredictable time shows that time still exists but it behaves in a really weird way and its not like regular time

and your scan never even claimed that time doesn't exist. It just describes how time INS doesn't behave like it does compared to normal and can’t be defined in a traditional sense.
You are acting as if undefined means nonexistent when its clearly not portrayed that way. Even your own scan shows that time is present, but it functions in an irregular way makes it difficult to define or measure in a conventional sense. That's what the undefined part is talking about

ins is fodder anyway
 
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I see.

In that case, is the most recent and the most consistent description both saying that Time is either not existent or not applicable?
Pretty much, yes.

One character even abuses this to keep her severed head alive indefinitely until Olga opens the pocket up, so that she could reveal her killer.
 
You can't just highlight "randomly shift" when literally right after that they elaborate and say they cannot be defined at all.
No offense but you are way too hung up in this. The literal definition of Undefined is "not clearly or precisely shown", so saying that the Imaginary Number Space's time is undefined does not support or even imply that it doesn't exist.
 
I see.

In that case, is the most recent and the most consistent description both saying that Time is either not existent or not applicable?
Pretty much, yes.

One character even abuses this to keep her severed head alive indefinitely until Olga opens the pocket up, so that she could reveal her killer.
While it's true that characters don't age in the Imaginary Number Space , it is also true that they still get hungry while they're there, which wouldn't be the case if time really didn't flow in this dimension. And again what Trsiha did doesn't really disprove the existence of time in this dimension, as all this would mean is that time in this dimension doesn't abide by the Human Texture's Concept of Time(i.e. "Time Within Conscious Recognition") which is supported by the fact that the Imaginary Number Space is stated to have it's own laws.
 
to be fair having no concept of time can mean that time just works weirdly instead of utter lack of time. it's actually not that uncommon afaik where stuff that works differently is said to have no concept of
There's also already precedent for this as seen with how the Moon Cell's Concept of Time is "Time Submitted to Record" while the Human Texture's Concept of Time is "Time Within Conscious Recognition".
 
When dealing with conflicting statements, we look at what is demonstrable in the narrative.
Trisha in casefiles stuck her own severed head in there EXACTLY because there is no time in INS. (I sent this scan a few pages ago.)

If there was time in there, it would pretty much break that plot line.
Since there seems to be disagreement on whether something is a sign of "time," I recommend you guys settle on what meets our site's definition of "time."
 
No offense but you are way too hung up in this. The literal definition of Undefined is "not clearly or precisely shown", so saying that the Imaginary Number Space's time is undefined does not support or even imply that it doesn't exist.
“Undefined" in math, literally means that it has no definition, and therefore no meaning.

Just keep that in mind.
 
“Undefined" in math, literally means that it has no definition, and therefore no meaning.

Just keep that in mind.
Ok, so why exactly are you using this interpretation when the context that "undefined" used for here has nothing to do with math?
 
Ok, so why exactly are you using this interpretation when the context that "undefined" used for here has nothing to do with math?
They’re talking about spatio-temporal coordinates. What do you mean it has nothing to do with math.
 
They’re talking about spatio-temporal coordinates. What do you mean it has nothing to do with math.
What I mean is aside from the Paper Moon most (if not all) other instances of the characters talking about the Imaginary Number Space's space/time don't even use the word "undefined" to describe it, instead simply saying that they works differently from the Human Texture's Concept of Time.
 
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