Something From The Nightside | Greenverse Discussion Thread

[Udlmaster]

Shouldn't the Lord of Thorns be as powerful as Lilith and the angels?

No, because we never saw Lilith's true power.

He's probably stronger than Angels, however, as he possesses the True Name of all of them, even the Fallen Ones.

It’s stated that Lilith could never have defeated him otherwise.

That was what Hadleigh thinks, but we know Hadleigh isn't a 100% reliable force, as we find out in the same scene that he's still just a man for all his power.

And, even if we do take it as a reliable Authorial intent, this would only apply to the "glorified sock puppet" version of Lilith.

Her true self is so powerful as to not be able to fully manifest into reality, even in the Nightside until she makes it over to suit her better.

As for the Enemy, would that be the Devil/Satan? I always get confused about that.

Yeah, it's always referring to Satan/the Devil

There are also other quotes about him, such as how he represents all aspects of God that people prefer to ignore, or that he has God’s power flowing through him, like other saints.

This is more so about how brutal the Lord of Thorns is, as he's judgement without limits. No Court higher than his.

I haven’t read Deathstalker yet, but is there any character or enemy in it who is as powerful as the beings from Outside? I started reading Secret Histories this week, and after I finish all the books, I plan to move on to Deathstalker.

Not read Deathstalker, but I believe there's some in Secret Histories.

 

[Quasar002]

No, because we never saw Lilith's true power.

He's probably stronger than Angels, however, as he possesses the True Name of all of them, even the Fallen Ones.


That was what Hadleigh thinks, but we know Hadleigh isn't a 100% reliable force, as we find out in the same scene that he's still just a man for all his power.

And, even if we do take it as a reliable Authorial intent, this would only apply to the "glorified sock puppet" version of Lilith.

Yes, that's true. At best, it's Lilith's avatar we're dealing with. Although her avatar is powerful enough on its own — above all Nightside — the fact that he's above the angels is more concrete.

Yeah, it's always referring to Satan/the Devil

I see. Besides God, he's the only one capable of shutting off John's gift, so it makes sense.

Not read Deathstalker, but I believe there's some in Secret Histories.

I suppose so. The Droods are quite powerful — I believe that, within the material world, they're among the strongest with their armour. I've only read the first book, but they showed quite a lot.

 

[Rutæhh]

I haven’t read Deathstalker yet, but is there any character or enemy in it who is as powerful as the beings from Outside? I started reading Secret Histories this week, and after I finish all the books, I plan to move on to Deathstalker.

idk i only read the first book but it does have one of the best AP feats for the material tho

 

[Rutæhh]

I suppose so. The Droods are quite powerful — I believe that, within the material world, they're among the strongest with their armour. I've only read the first book, but they showed quite a lot.

yeah Droods are like in the top three strongest human characters with their armour. Gods on the Street of Gods literally run away (and despite everything these guys are no joke) from them and they no sell most if not all abilities in the material world

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

I think these feats is not in the sandbox, it's a solid supporting evidence.

John after having Angel's power, he can see all reality. Worlds within worlds, and above and beyond it.

Spoiler

Without any warning, both angels stepped forward and into us, like swimmers diving into deep water. Suzie and I both cried out, more in surprise than shock, and as quickly as that it was done. Baphomet was in my mind, like an idea out of nowhere, like a memory I'd forgotten, like an impulse from a place I normally kept heavily suppressed. And with the angel came power. It was like being plugged into the energy that runs the universe. I could see for miles, hear every sound in the night, and every movement of the air on my skin was like a caress. Suddenly I had other senses, too, and all the worlds within the world, and above and beyond it, unfolded all around me. I was drunk with knowledge, raging with power. I felt like I could tear the whole material world apart with my bare hands. That I could lay waste to any enemy, or dismiss them with a look. I knew that I could breathe life into dying suns, speed the planets in their orbits, dance the dance of life and death, redemption and damnation. ~ Paths Not Taken

Even a lesser form of a demon have nothing to do with the geometries in the material world

Spoiler

“Enough,” I said. “We’re well past the time for civilised conversation. Show me your real face. Show me what you really are.”

He laughed at me. “Your limited human mind couldn’t cope with all the awful things I am. Just one glimpse of my true nature would blow your little mind apart. But there is a shape I like to use, when I am summoned to this dreary mortal plane…”

He stretched and twisted in a way that had nothing to do with the geometries of the material world, and in a moment Hobbes was gone and something else was standing in his place. Something that had never been, never could be, merely human. ~ Hell to Pay

 

[Rutæhh]

this cosmology blog is never seeing the light of day

 

[Quasar002]

Does anyone know if this yields any acausality or anything interesting?:

“Older than humanity, probably,” said Molly. “It’s … an archetype, a primal thing, spanning realities. A thing of dreams and glories, grail quests and honour satisfied. One last chance to defy the Dark, and snatch victory for the Light. Or so they say.” “Who created it?” I said. “Who knows?” said Subway Sue. “This is the old Wild Magic we’re talking about. Some things… just are. Because they’re needed.” — Daemons Are Forever, pág 638 (Epub)

A manifestation of Wild Magic is an archetype that spans realities. And this archetype has no creator; it simply is. Because it’s necessary. And I imagine this extends to Wild Magic itself, since merely one of its manifestations is treated this way.

(I trust that one day the great update will finally come to pass)

 

[Rutæhh]

Does anyone know if this yields any acausality or anything interesting?:



A manifestation of Wild Magic is an archetype that spans realities. And this archetype has no creator; it simply is. Because it’s necessary. And I imagine this extends to Wild Magic itself, since merely one of its manifestations is treated this way.

(I trust that one day the great update will finally come to pass)

It would be Acas 4 in my eyes since it lines up with the general nature of magic of it sticking around even after the castor has left history and never existed in it the first place

the next upgrade will be regarding magic if this cosmology upgrade ever gets accepted

 

[Quasar002]

It would be Acas 4 in my eyes since it lines up with the general nature of magic of it sticking around even after the castor has left history and never existed in it the first place

the next upgrade will be regarding magic if this cosmology upgrade ever gets accepted

By the way, an artefact called the Soul of Albion is mentioned as a Platonic ideal:

She turned the delicate key in its lock, and the box opened to reveal a bed of red plush velvet and on it the Soul of Albion. A polished crystal sphere, no bigger than my thumb, it blazed with unearthly fires. It was impossibly, heart-stoppingly beautiful, almost painful to the eyes, like the Platonic ideal of every gem or jewel or precious stone that ever was. All across the War Room people stopped what they were doing and looked around, sensing the presence of something new and wonderful in their midst. — The Man with the Golden Torc, p. 136 (Epub)

As far as I know, Platonic ideals are Type 1 concepts by default.

And in the following book, it’s mentioned that this Soul of Albion is a creature from a higher dimension, perhaps even a part of the Heart (which provided the armour for the Droods in the first book):

“Won’t work,” I said. “Your trouble is, you never did take the trouble to work out what the Soul of Albion really is. It’s not just a thing, an object you can use. The Soul fell to earth from a higher dimension, just like the Drood Heart. It might even be a splinter that broke off from the Heart during its descent.” — Daemons Are Forever, p. 668 (Epub)

So, as far as the cosmology goes, one could say that things like Platonic ideals exist in higher dimensions/planes. I’m not sure if that can be “scaled up” in any way to larger things. But we do know that Ethel is above the Heart, and the Hungry Gods operate in an even greater reality.

 

[Rutæhh]

By the way, an artefact called the Soul of Albion is mentioned as a Platonic ideal:



As far as I know, Platonic ideals are Type 1 concepts by default.

And in the following book, it’s mentioned that this Soul of Albion is a creature from a higher dimension, perhaps even a part of the Heart (which provided the armour for the Droods in the first book):



So, as far as the cosmology goes, one could say that things like Platonic ideals exist in higher dimensions/planes. I’m not sure if that can be “scaled up” in any way to larger things. But we do know that Ethel is above the Heart, and the Hungry Gods operate in an even greater reality.

This reinforces the stuff about Outsiders living in perfect worlds which i believe is a feature of Platonism if i am right

 

[Quasar002]

This reinforces the stuff about Outsiders living in perfect worlds which i believe is a feature of Platonism if i am right

Yes, they are seen as perfect and immutable archetypes

 

[Rutæhh]

since the higher dimension stuff has been rejected i will deal with it in another thread.

i have two (maybe three depending on how fast) more threads i want to push out before October as thats when school opens for me

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

since the higher dimension stuff has been rejected i will deal with it in another thread.

Rejected by who? I didn't see any staff reject the thread.

 

[Rutæhh]

Rejected by who? I didn't see any staff reject the thread.

The Nightside and Outside being 1-A and higher

Finepoint somewhat agreed with Berny points and argued for a possibly both of the mods agreed with the current ratings as well. like i said ill look for better evidence in another thread

 

[Quasar002]

The Nightside and Outside being 1-A and higher

Finepoint somewhat agreed with Berny points and argued for a possibly both of the mods agreed with the current ratings as well. like i said ill look for better evidence in another thread

It looks like this is finally going to be concluded, lol. And by the way, based on the currently accepted scale, where did Ethel and the hungry gods end up?

 

[Rutæhh]

It looks like this is finally going to be concluded, lol. And by the way, based on the currently accepted scale, where did Ethel and the hungry gods end up?

yeah we need an admin to vote on it. Outsiders like ethel and the hungry gods are Low 1-A