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When The Discussion Cries - New Forum
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(If Creator won't be High 1-A+)
Do you think can we reach Supra with a reason like this?
(1) Witch Hierarchy = 1-A
(2) Great witch hierarchy = High 1-A
(3) Third domain hierarchy = High 1-A (Meta-Meta qualitative)
(1), (2), (3) is a part of Restrictions hierarchy
Since Creator views Restrictions hierarchy with its ontology as a fiction and it shows that additional qualitative and Meta-qualitative via lower restrictions are still a part of Restrictions hierarchy and shares the same algorithm with the results that "higher of Meta-qualitative = lower restrictions" so Creator who transcends the Restrictions hierarchy implies that Creator transcends the all possible extensions of Meta-qualitative (same reason as High 1-A without showing all possible layers extension of 1-A)
So Creator will be Supra baseline
Do you think can we reach Supra with a reason like this?
(1) Witch Hierarchy = 1-A
(2) Great witch hierarchy = High 1-A
(3) Third domain hierarchy = High 1-A (Meta-Meta qualitative)
(1), (2), (3) is a part of Restrictions hierarchy
Since Creator views Restrictions hierarchy with its ontology as a fiction and it shows that additional qualitative and Meta-qualitative via lower restrictions are still a part of Restrictions hierarchy and shares the same algorithm with the results that "higher of Meta-qualitative = lower restrictions" so Creator who transcends the Restrictions hierarchy implies that Creator transcends the all possible extensions of Meta-qualitative (same reason as High 1-A without showing all possible layers extension of 1-A)
So Creator will be Supra baseline
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I'm thinking about the usage of the "Devil's proof" when it can be used to define the something that wasn't showed but it was treated as it really exists as Devil's proof (Normally, it will be NLF because it wasn't established in the story)
Battler said that denying the existence of witch is impossible because Devil's proof always make a witch still exist outside of denying.
So Devil's proof is not just a bulls*it theory but it's significant to define the existence of something that wasn't shown and no proof of its existence
However, Creator who is an omnipotent can do it completely when Creator can deny the existence of witch completely including any witch that always exist in any form due to the Devil's proof.
In other words
Continue from the above
What is the purpose to say it so far?
Because anything that exists as Devil’s proof is considered as “a possibility of its existence (including higher reality and higher R>F)” so in order to deny the devil’s proof is denying will be in the level of “all possible of logical denying” not just only the current/established possibilities.
So, I assume that “everything” in the Creator description can be in the level of “everything that’s possible” which equals to “All possible logical worlds” (aka. High 1-A+)
For example situation for this
Me: Creator is an omnipotent who created "everything" as the source of "everything" in the verse so Creator is High 1-A+
Counter: this "everything" isn't "literally everything which equals to everything that's logically possible"
Me: anything outside of "everything" does exist as Devil's proof as an additional possibilities so Creator should be able affect "everything" including anything outside of "everything"
Battler said that denying the existence of witch is impossible because Devil's proof always make a witch still exist outside of denying.
So Devil's proof is not just a bulls*it theory but it's significant to define the existence of something that wasn't shown and no proof of its existence
However, Creator who is an omnipotent can do it completely when Creator can deny the existence of witch completely including any witch that always exist in any form due to the Devil's proof.
In other words
Continue from the above
What is the purpose to say it so far?
Because anything that exists as Devil’s proof is considered as “a possibility of its existence (including higher reality and higher R>F)” so in order to deny the devil’s proof is denying will be in the level of “all possible of logical denying” not just only the current/established possibilities.
So, I assume that “everything” in the Creator description can be in the level of “everything that’s possible” which equals to “All possible logical worlds” (aka. High 1-A+)
For example situation for this
Me: Creator is an omnipotent who created "everything" as the source of "everything" in the verse so Creator is High 1-A+
Counter: this "everything" isn't "literally everything which equals to everything that's logically possible"
Me: anything outside of "everything" does exist as Devil's proof as an additional possibilities so Creator should be able affect "everything" including anything outside of "everything"
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ExcelsisBerny
She/Her- 1,700
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Uhh... like, I get what you are trying to argue but there are way better arguments for that.
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Maybe, this is just an outline but I can't think about better argument because of lack of supporting context about Devil's proof and the cosmology relationship. (Maybe it's still end up as NLF lol)
ExcelsisBerny
She/Her- 1,700
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The devil's proof is just a reasoning tactic used to avoid having to prove your own point, leaving every logical possibility in the meta-debate in a kind of suspended state.
You're right in saying that it’s possible to justify anything using that technique, but you also have to support your claim by explaining how meta-beings have abilities tied to language, and how they generate possible worlds through it.
There are countless examples of that. They don’t even need “truths” to do it.
ExcelsisBerny
She/Her- 1,700
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I don't think that's related to the human domain. But I DO think the human domain is 1-A.
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From what?
ExcelsisBerny
She/Her- 1,700
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Magical world and meta layers.
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If human domain became 1-A how will be the new scaling chain will be
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idk which one will be so not sure about that
If Human domain is just only 1-A, not 1-A hierarchy
Witch domain will be just above baseline +1 from the current one, higher than that still the same
ExcelsisBerny
She/Her- 1,700
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No. It would necessarily be High 1-A.
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Maybe, i'm just not sure how it can be High 1-A when High 1-A needs to transcend the whole framework/hierarchy of 1-A extension. also, I don't know about the human domain structure if it's 1-A
ExcelsisBerny
She/Her- 1,700
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Yeah, that's what the world of witches does.
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ok then
if Witch domain start at High 1-A as the first step of lower restriction in the cosmology, lower restriction will be considered as higher meta-quality
City of books = Unknown into meta-quality (or highball at Supra)
Featherine (true form) = All possible of meta-quality extension (as the highest/lowest restriction being in the cosmology below Creator)
Creator = Supra
if Witch domain start at High 1-A as the first step of lower restriction in the cosmology, lower restriction will be considered as higher meta-quality
City of books = Unknown into meta-quality (or highball at Supra)
Featherine (true form) = All possible of meta-quality extension (as the highest/lowest restriction being in the cosmology below Creator)
Creator = Supra
ExcelsisBerny
She/Her- 1,700
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Kinda. I genuinely think Creatorhood is tier 0.
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even if Creator was referred as "they"? but i think i don't see about monadhood from Creator
ExcelsisBerny
She/Her- 1,700
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There is no plurality. Distinction and identity dissolve before reaching Creatorhood.
The reason they are referred to in plural is for convenience.
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what about monadhood?
ExcelsisBerny
She/Her- 1,700
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Yeah, they are a unity without distinctions. That's a monad basically.
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iirc, Monadhood require to be "all in one and one in all" or "being everything" too (or something like that, doesn't it?
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By dissolving distinctions into unity, both of these are necessarily the case (though the wording is rather weird, especially "being everything"), since all distinctions between separate modes of being are resolved into unity. Though both of these don't imply being a monad, especially the latter.Bro cooked
iirc, Monadhood require to be "all in one and one in all" or "being everything" too (or something like that, doesn't it?
Either way, 07th operates on this wiki's Tier 0 rather explicitly.
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We need a general P&A revision yeah, some people said they are working on it so its best to wait for them to finish.
ExcelsisBerny
She/Her- 1,700
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The number of haxs is ridiculous....
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I'm reaaaally curious about your revisions
ExcelsisBerny
She/Her- 1,700
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Battler is gonna be a HaxLord ngl
Hasty12345
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What hax is he currently missing?
ExcelsisBerny
She/Her- 1,700
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I think the Voyager Witches will have like, every possible hax because of their unlimited evolution
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Are you working on them?
ExcelsisBerny
She/Her- 1,700
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I mean, the wording on "state of everything" is a bit weird; Creatorhood isn't "everything", but rather completely supersedes the differentiation between everything (as all of these differences, of that which determines an existence as "itself", are counted under restrictions). Monadhood is literally just that; the existence which supersedes differentiation, to the extent where all differences are reduced to silence and unity.
Creatorhood is less the "top" of the hierarchy, but rather where the hierarchy loses its own meaning, and with it, all modes of being vanish into its emptiness.
On this topic, Oblivion should be Type 2 of High 1-A+. I'll propose that in a thread to come with some upgrades, assuming nobody else does. Either way, the general profiles should be worked on more, given the outdated stuff.
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Yeah, I think the focus now should go to upgrading the profiles P&A. They are really, really outdated and lacking of scans and organization.
ExcelsisBerny
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Oblivion / True Sea of Fragments / Sea of Boredom is indeed High 1-A+ ngl
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