Dragon Quest Revival Discussion Thread

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

 

[TartaChocholate]

These are actually pretty useful. Even one doesn't agree with it, it still can provide info or insight one legitimately didn't have.

 

[Winter]

Did you see my list I made earlier?

No, but there’s still plenty of work that needs done overall and I feel like you’re the only one who’s actually played DQ9 and god knows who’s played through DQ7

 

[Winter]

These are actually pretty useful. Even one doesn't agree with it, it still can provide info or insight one legitimately didn't have.

It provides some, though most of the arguments have already been covered at some point earlier in the thread. To reiterate what was said earlier, I do agree DQ should be 2-B (at least cosmologically) some of the arguments use very vague and metaphorical statements to boost the verse to higher levels. “Infinite darkness” doesn’t make sense, and the connection between the two worlds of light in Heroes and 8 is rather vague, as they seem to refer to two different things (let alone Rhapthorne didn’t even remotely do anything close to what Mortamor did).

 

[TokiNoOuja]

It provides some, though most of the arguments have already been covered at some point earlier in the thread. To reiterate what was said earlier, I do agree DQ should be 2-B (at least cosmologically) some of the arguments use very vague and metaphorical statements to boost the verse to higher levels. “Infinite darkness” doesn’t make sense, and the connection between the two worlds of light in Heroes and 8 is rather vague, as they seem to refer to two different things (let alone Rhapthorne didn’t even remotely do anything close to what Mortamor did).

The infinite Darkness thing can be used as 2-A container like MGF stuff especially we already had 2-B as a starting point' (plus both Light dan Dark respectively stated to be higher dimensional,which is stated to be the reason why both force simultaneously exist across the entire Multiverse

 

[V-King]

god knows who’s played through DQ7

From what I remember, Orgodemir and God are continental level. Slaughtomaton claimed he can destroy the entire continent. And Gracos can do the same via tsunamis.

 

[Winter]

The infinite Darkness thing can be used as 2-A container like MGF stuff especially we already had 2-B as a starting point' (plus both Light dan Dark respectively stated to be higher dimensional,which is stated to be the reason why both force simultaneously exist across the entire Multiverse

My problem with the light and dark stuff said earlier is that it uses a lot of unreasonable assumptions and connections to make unreasonable conclusions. Why should we assume that the worlds of light and dark talked about in DQ8 are the same as the ones in DQ Heroes? They’re two different scenarios in a many-worlds narrative. I’m a bit fuzzy on some of the things we talked about earlier but I remember there being a bit of an absurdity to the arguments.

Infinite darkness is still too vague because the argument assumes a connection that doesn’t exist. Infinite darkness connecting to an overarching dark world just isn’t supported, neither is either individual argument by itself.

 

[Winter]

From what I remember, Orgodemir and God are continental level. Slaughtomaton claimed he can destroy the entire continent. And Gracos can do the same via tsunamis.

The only feat I can remember from reading is the whole continent splitting thing God and Orgo do. The absurd amount of cross scaling the side games do basically makes everyone the same tier but if there’s anything related to the countless worlds cosmology or any notable powers from certain characters, that’s mostly all we need. Gracos and Slaughtomaton should provide a nice 6-A tier for mid-game/pre final boss DQ7.

 

[Tonygameman]

 

[Winter]

So question, whenever we do profiles for the different characters, should we have abilities that aren’t from their original game in a separate tab? For example: would we put Mortamor’s abilities from DQ9 and DQ Tact in a separate tab from what he does in DQ6?

 

[V-King]

So question, whenever we do profiles for the different characters, should we have abilities that aren’t from their original game in a separate tab? For example: would we put Mortamor’s abilities from DQ9 and DQ Tact in a separate tab from what he does in DQ6?

I vote for separate tabs. Unless tomorrow Square-Enix publishes an official timeline of Dragon Quest.

Speaking of timeline, are Torneko's games and Terry spin-off game from GB canon to main DQ games?

 

[Winter]

I vote for separate tabs. Unless tomorrow Square-Enix publishes an official timeline of Dragon Quest.

Speaking of timeline, are Torneko's games and Terry spin-off game from GB canon to main DQ games?

I don’t know about Torneko but I think it’s reasonable to assume that Terry’s is canon. Like, I wouldn’t consider him using Nokturnus or any other dark lord in battle as something that’d happen canonically, but it’s possible for him to have access to that.

Considering other side games, it depends on the context. I wouldn’t consider either Builders game canon to DQ1 or DQ2, but rather its own thing. Same with Dark Prince, the DQ Tact storylines, etc. DQ Heroes works canonically considering the whole multiverse and timeline thing it does. I don’t know enough about the other side games to say anything but my point stands before to take it case by case.

 

[Winter]

I vote for separate tabs. Unless tomorrow Square-Enix publishes an official timeline of Dragon Quest.

Thought I’d add onto this, I’m pretty sure the timeline is well established enough through the whole multiverse thing. 11-3-1-2 in Erdrick Saga, 6-4-5 in Zenithian Saga, the rest are in their own worlds separate from the settings of the other 7 games mentioned.

 

[V-King]

Thought I’d add onto this, I’m pretty sure the timeline is well established enough through the whole multiverse thing. 11-3-1-2 in Erdrick Saga, 6-4-5 in Zenithian Saga, the rest are in their own worlds separate from the settings of the other 7 games mentioned.

Yes. I found another side game called Caravan Heart that has young Kiefer from 7 as the protagonist. And pretty much confirms that 7 is a parallel world to Erdrick Saga, since he ends up in another world and met DQ 2 protagonists.

 

[Jag50]

Oh nice there is a thread.

 

[Jag50]

Any profiles for the Dai cast being planned?

 

[Winter]

Any profiles for the Dai cast being planned?

So far, no profiles have really been planned for any characters other than a DQ9 boss. There’s a lot of work and revision needed to prepare most of these and as far as I’m aware, I haven’t seen too many Dai supporters on the thread. I’m not on here too much and I know nothing about Dai so you guys would have to work something out.

 

[Winter]

Yes. I found another side game called Caravan Heart that has young Kiefer from 7 as the protagonist. And pretty much confirms that 7 is a parallel world to Erdrick Saga, since he ends up in another world and met DQ 2 protagonists.

Not really, Kiefer just travels to Alefgard, that doesn’t necessarily mean the DQ7 world parallels Alefgard.

 

[Starbrand_Fan]

Any profiles for the Dai cast being planned?

Popp

Popp (ポップ Poppu) is the son of the weapons merchant Junk. Fifteen-year-old Popp left his home in Lankarks village and decided to become an apprentice of Avan, training to become a magician. He is a specialist in fire spells, mainly those of the Mera type, but as the story progresses he learns...

vsbattles.fandom.com

One of them already has one

 

[HoodedEnigma]

Been a bit since I've checked in here, Just beat DQ 1&2 HD and made me curious to see how progress here's been.

 

[TartaChocholate]

Been a bit since I've checked in here, Just beat DQ 1&2 HD and made me curious to see how progress here's been.

Were they good? I'm trying to get III Remake to follow up on XI. But... uh... money is an issue. Doesn't help that videogames are so friggin expensive where I live.

 

[HoodedEnigma]

They were great, They added so much to the originals, especially DQ1 HD. I thoroughly enjoyed going through them.

 

[TartaChocholate]

They were great, They added so much to the originals, especially DQ1 HD. I thoroughly enjoyed going through them.

Pretty curious about DQ1 in particular, since well, even if DQIII is the daddy of all JRPGs, DQ1 is still the origin point of it. How much did they change to what's one of the most straightforward classic hero stories in the games?

 

[HoodedEnigma]

The core events of the original are the same just expanded, but there are also a ton of new stuff in between now, Princess Gawain gets more focus and feels like way more of character, Rubiss is now very present in the story, We learn of the creations of the 5 sigils from DQ2 and a ton of other stuff but i won't spoil you too much

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

All the HD2D remakes were fantastic. 1&2 had a lot more too improve; as 3 was already one of the Dragon Quest master-pieces. The first 2 have both historically suffered from both 1st game syndrome and 2nd game syndrome respectively; though were overall still good NES classics. Can't really promise they aren't black sheep anymore, given all the other DQ games are also fantastic. But the improvements where huge none of the less due to 1st game now having whips, boomerangs, and AoE spells and being able to fight multiple enemies and more iconic NPCs and villains. Dragon Quest 2 also added a new protagonist having 4 Luminaries was a huge improvement, but they added so much party banter between all of them save for Prince of Middenhall still being the silent protagonist.

But I do look forward to when they state remaking the Zenithian trilogy in that style; it is also hinted 8 and maybe 9 may eventually get remakes in the style of the upcoming DQ7 one.

 

[HoodedEnigma]

You played them as well?, There is so much new and expanded lore really made me curious to see if it effected the series Verses wise also Spoiler for DQ2HD's true ending

Spoiler

That's definitely Calamos you fight at the end right?, It's the same Japanese VA at least

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Perhaps, those who played 11 know
Calasmos was the Ying with End of Time being Yang. But it's kind of vague on the full details of Timewyrm; other than being beyond space-time as well as "The ultimate evil." There is also Dragon Quest 12 to look forward to, and definitely lots of lore stuff over the multiverse.

 

[HoodedEnigma]

Maybe this was always the case, But I used to think Rubiss only made the continent of Alefgard, Not even the extended continents where Moonbrooke and Cannock are but I think HD's dialogue makes it sound like she made not only all the continents but that whole world is that right?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Maybe this was always the case, But I used to think Rubiss only made the continent of Alefgard, Not even the extended continents where Moonbrooke and Cannock are but I think HD's dialogue makes it sound like she made not only all the continents but that whole world is that right?

Additionally, Rubiss has been called a Goddess. So it gives the idea that Rubiss from Erdrick saga and "The Goddess" from Zenithian trilogy might be one in the same. Only contention is DQ9 and 10 have different creator gods + 10 revealed there exist multiple gods and goddesses. If they aren't the same, I think they're part of the same family tree at least.

 

[HoodedEnigma]

Rubiss shows up in D6 and during DQ1HD it's said she's currently visiting another world during most of the games events and you have to use the 5 sigils to call her so she comes back to the Alefgard world, I think the implication is that's when she was in DQ6 , But yea there are several creator gods who've created central worlds, The goddess is definitely worshipped in nearly every world though I don't think she's made all of them

 

[Winter]

The DQ3 remake was a lot of fun; they added so much to it. Same with 1 and 2.

 

[Winter]

Rubiss shows up in D6 and during DQ1HD it's said she's currently visiting another world during most of the games events and you have to use the 5 sigils to call her so she comes back to the Alefgard world, I think the implication is that's when she was in DQ6 , But yea there are several creator gods who've created central worlds, The goddess is definitely worshipped in nearly every world though I don't think she's made all of them

I don’t think the Goddess referred to is the same in every instance, given how each game refers to different characters (especially with the HD-2D remakes noting the Goddess referred to is Rubiss and not the Goddess from 4-6, so it’s likely other games do the same thing). As far as I’m aware, Torland and the Overworld (1-3) were by Rubiss, 4-6 by the Goddess, 7 by the Almighty, 9 by Zenus, and 11 by Yggdrasil.

 

[HoodedEnigma]

Yea most of the games have a specific creator deity, I've been curious about the Dragon Quest scaling again. Do all the final bosses in DQ scale to the Luminary through the avatars he fights before the End Of Time and if so, that'd mean you could scale most all the Heroes and deity in the series to that as well right?

 

[Winter]

Yea most of the games have a specific creator deity, I've been curious about the Dragon Quest scaling again. Do all the final bosses in DQ scale to the Luminary through the avatars he fights before the End Of Time and if so, that'd mean you could scale most all the Heroes and deity in the series to that as well right?

That’s the idea. My only concern is that most heroes don’t have any versions of themselves leading up to that, so I don’t know how to distinguish the power jump from mid-game vs end game for a lot of heroes

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Dragon Quest Heroes is canon, and all of the protagonists have Multiversal feats save for 9 and 10 not having any "Heroes" involved.

 

[HoodedEnigma]

Dragon Quest Heroes is canon, and all of the protagonists have Multiversal feats save for 9 and 10 not having any "Heroes" involved.

They all have their own multiversal feats? The End of Time / Calamos was the big one what's the others, Is it people with transcending statements like Estark? Also, how do we feel about DQ builders I feel it should be a canon split in the timeline, wasn't it possible the DQ Builders 2 world which Hargon made had infinite parallel worlds in it? I know there's some low multi feats with the Goddess making 3 realms, Rapthorne was going to merge 2, Mortamor was going to merge 2.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

They all have their own multiversal feats? The End of Time / Calamos was the big one what's the others, Is it people with transcending statements like Estark? Also, how do we feel about DQ builders I feel it should be a canon split in the timeline, wasn't it possible the DQ Builders 2 world which Hargon made had infinite parallel worlds in it? I know there's some low multi feats with the Goddess making 3 realms, Rapthorne was going to merge 2, Mortamor was going to merge 2.

Oops, wrong choice of words. I meant Multiversal scaling, not direct feats. Dragon Quest Heroes is basically a Fire Emblem Heroes or Dissidia Final Fantasy situation basically. A couple of the heroes who appear either have feats on the level, or scale from each other. And iirc, DQ Builders had legit Tier 2 feats from the Dragon Lord (Formerly named Dracolord at the time)

 

[Winter]

They all have their own multiversal feats? The End of Time / Calamos was the big one what's the others, Is it people with transcending statements like Estark? Also, how do we feel about DQ builders I feel it should be a canon split in the timeline, wasn't it possible the DQ Builders 2 world which Hargon made had infinite parallel worlds in it? I know there's some low multi feats with the Goddess making 3 realms, Rapthorne was going to merge 2, Mortamor was going to merge 2.

DQ Builders I’m pretty sure is its own thing. The HD-2D remakes also deviate away from the motives of the Dragonlord and Hargon in Builders, so there’s that.

 

[HoodedEnigma]

The implication from Builders 1 was that each decision can create a different world from that deviation, so I imagine it still possible for the older versions of games to fit into the canon as alternate paths

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It's kind of like how both the OG version and FF7 remake trilogy are both canon but take place in different timelines within the same collective multiverse. A lot of verses from Square Enix in general do the same thing at creating big multiverses.